Starting format?

[Chipper35]

I have an idea........

 

I've gotten myself almost ankle-deep into mapping.......and have found myself SO FRUSTRATED. For the moment, I am mapping in Doom Builder 2 and Slade 3 only.

 

On these videos, when people make 'dummy sectors', all things work out perfectly.....but not for me!

 

In which format, and with which IWAD would you recommend a near-beginner use? Right now: I just care about making floating platforms, slopes and stairs......that is about it. Geez, I'm frustrated.

[Redneckerz]

24 minutes ago, Chipper35 said:

I have an idea........

 

I've gotten myself almost ankle-deep into mapping.......and have found myself SO FRUSTRATED. For the moment, I am mapping in Doom Builder 2 and Slade 3 only.

 

On these videos, when people make 'dummy sectors', all things work out perfectly.....but not for me!

 

In which format, and with which IWAD would you recommend a near-beginner use? Right now: I just care about making floating platforms, slopes and stairs......that is about it. Geez, I'm frustrated.

I think Gez once mentioned UDMF, Doom 2 format. IWAD: Doom 2 IWAD since that is what most maps rely upon.

 

For an explanation of the mapping formats, have this excellent video:
 

 

[MidnightMage]

Honestly, if you are really new to mapping. I would suggest starting with a limit removing port and mapping for vanilla compatibility.

 

Once you get the basics of map design down, it's easier to starting adding on more complicated topics such as Boom or UDMF features. I would suggest if you are very new to mapping to start with the Doom 2 IWAD and try to make a simple limit removing map to get your bearings. 

 

Don't worry, we've all been there and it can be very frustrating and difficult to learn a new skill. But rest assured it's all quite easy once you have the basics down.

 

edit. Never mind I just read your full post and saw you were already aiming for floating platforms, which essentially means you are aiming to map for UDMF. Well I guess I'd follow Redneckerz post and watch Chubs how-to videos. UDMF can be picked up by analyzing others maps which utilize UDMF features. I'd suggest downloading a DWMP map and study how people have applied varied mechanics in the different maps then try to apply those to your own map.

 

Another helpful resource is the ZDoom wiki which contains a ton of information. Anyways, best of luck!

Edited November 28, 2021 by MidnightMage

[robocaco]

In Chubs video on making 3D Floors, he uses Doom in Hexen format so maybe use that one for making platforms.

[SilverMiner]

On 11/29/2021 at 12:13 AM, Chipper35 said:

In which format, and with which IWAD would you recommend a near-beginner use?

From my own experience:

IWAD Plutonia, Zdoom in Doom format with a bit of Zdoom in Hexen

then I went vanilla

and then Boom

now: limit removing

[Pegleg]

On 11/28/2021 at 4:13 PM, Chipper35 said:

In which format, and with which IWAD would you recommend a near-beginner use? Right now: I just care about making floating platforms, slopes and stairs......that is about it. Geez, I'm frustrated.

 

If you're a near-beginner, my suggestion would be to not worry about things such as IWAD, format, etc. The engine is basically the same regardless of the IWAD, with the biggest difference between Doom and Doom 2 being additional enemies and a few extra objects. But all the actions are the same. Doom might not have shipped in 1993 with a key-locked door that was opened by switch, but that didn't stop Jan van der Veken and company from having that action in The Classic Episode (an E2 episode replacement). So take a deep breath and relax. We've all been where you're at. We've all been beginners.

 

I know you have a list of things you care about (floating platforms, slopes, and stairs), but, in my opinion, you're falling into the trap that a lot of beginning mappers fall into. You have an idea and you're excited. You want to make that map that you envision, so you charge ahead. However, because you're new, you don't realize the things you don't know until it's too late. Then you're stuck and frustrated.

 

At this point, you should be learning how to do the basic things. It may sound somewhat trite (and I don't mean it to me), but you need to learn to crawl before you walk, and learn to walk before you run. I'm not being condescending to you when I say that you should start out simple and build on that. Learn to make a door, then a switch, then a lift, then a walkover line that triggers a wall to open, and so on. You can learn these basics in any format, whether it is vanilla, Boom, DiH, UDMF, or whatever. Basics are basics. Yes, the numbers for actions will be different between vanilla/limit-removing/Boom and UDMF, but the basic actions will be usually the same. Linguica put together a series of vanilla tutorials that build from simple actions to more complex ones. These tutorials will provide a good foundation for how to do the things you want to do. I'm not aware of a tutorial series as complete as Linguica's for other formats, but the general principles would be the same: start basic and build your way up.

 

Since you want to do 3D floors (I assume that's what you mean by floating platforms) and slopes, it may be best for you to start in UDMF, so that you're building your knowledge in a format where you can eventually make the things you want to make. It is entirely possible to learn in vanilla or Boom and later move to UDMF, but I think you would have an extra step because there would be some differences, such as differences in the numbers for linedef actions. The key to starting with UDMF (or DiH/ZDoom) is to avoid being distracted by the fancy features while you learn the basics.

 

There is value in learning multiple formats, but just starting out, it may be most useful to start in the format that you're building toward. By the way, I don't map in UDMF, so I'm not a UDMF evangelist. Almost all of my maps are either vanilla or Boom. If you decide to start in vanilla or Boom, begin with the vanilla tutorials I linked to above, or for Boom, look here for additional things not covered in the vanilla tutorials. For UDMF and Doom Builder 2, I would suggest checking out tutorials here, here (this is a series of Doom Builder 2 tutorials), and here.

 

At the end of the day, regardless of what format you choose, and what IWAD your map works in, start out with the basics and build up. This can be a long process, but learning how to do what you want to do is a good one. Remember, we've all been at the same place you're at. Good luck!

[Bridgeburner56]

All formats are fine to start with, I very much fly in the face of the "noooo you have to map for vanilla to learn the basics first" mentality. Every format has its quirks and complexities and none of them are any "easier" than any other. 
The most important thing is to decide what kind of map you want to make. Some analogous to the classics? Probably start with limit removing. Want to make slopes and floaty structures as you say? UDMF for GZDoom would be the way to go. Something in between? Jump straight into boom.
You can learn the principles of good level design in any format. At the end of the day all that matters is that you have fun and enjoy your mapping journey. If you decide you don't like a particular format then you can choose something else for your next map.

As for iwad, use Doom 2

[Chipper35]

Although not perfectly aligned, I appreciate the advice from all parties!!

[Borg]

New mapper here also.

When you have these great ideas, you want to jump right in and apply the cool shit that you saw on AAliens or Valiant. I have learned that skipping past the fundamentals to go straight for the cool shit, is not a really good plan. Kind of like the old saying of having Champaign taste and a beer pocketbook. I have found that the cool shit is much easier to do after a few weeks of vanilla. You will spend much less time figuring why something doesn't work.

But hey, I'm just a noob.

[act]

Definitely try to make a first .WAD as a way to dip into the simple concepts and mild complexities of map design, which is as vanilla-conforming as possible. Anyone who says otherwise is setting you up for failure. If you don't understand how to recreate what made Doom popular in the first place, it's well-made and complex but simple map design, then I don't see you being capable of utilizing a heavily-altered version of the Doom engine's full abilities. It's like giving a 12 year old kid Unity. Trust me, it's not a good idea. I literally used to go by 25s instead of by 8s when it came to sector heights, sector brightness, etc. You should learn how to play well in the limits of vanilla Doom before branching out to the more complex formats.

[Chipper35]

On 11/30/2021 at 2:49 PM, Pegleg said:

At this point, you should be learning how to do the basic things.

 

I am taking this advice and thus far.........learning some cool stuff!!

[ＤΞＬＴΛ]

I'd think for beginners, start with doom: doom format, but I think it is a good idea to experiment, see what works for you...

[Koko Ricky]

If you're basically novice, master vanilla editing features first. As tempting as more advanced formats are, Doom's quirky idiosyncrasies necessitate starting from simplicity. 

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

If your main goal is using slopes, bridges, and lights, I recommend against everyone here telling you to start with Vanilla or Boom.
First, because you seem to really want to use these fancy 3D features, and they will never be possible on classic formats.
Second because these classic formats works in some very different ways which may lead you to "learning it wrong" when you transition into the more advanced formats and start needing to do things differently.

For example, in an oldschool format, to make a Door you just need to assign a linedef function "1 - Raise Door, Wait Lower" to both sides of the door, and it's done. 
In a newschool format, you must assign function 11, set the time the door stays open, means of activation, if players or monsters can open, etc.
If you got used to making things in the oldschool format, you will constantly overlook necessary functions for things to work.

I recommend starting with ZDoom in Hexen format, which already can do everything you want to do, and will prepare you to use the new functions of UDMF later.
Forget Doom Builder and Slade, they are old and not ideal for modern doom mapping. Instead use GZDoom Builder, or Ultimate Doom Builder. Both of these editors have more advanced 3D modes which will allow you to learn how dummy sectors and slopes works much quicker since you can preview these stuff inside the editor without having to test the map.
 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Sergeant_Mark_IV