Star Trek discussions

[Rudolph]

13 hours ago, lazygecko said:

She probably gets her best moment in the animated series where she has to take command to rescue the crew. Suddenly she gets to be very assertive, and the vampire ladies immediately find out what happens when they don't take her seriously. Apparently Nichols was very delighted upon reading the script.

Yes! I saw that episode. Yet another reason to like The Animated Series despite its shortcomings! :D

 

Also, I hear that the character is a regular on Strange New Worlds.

 

2 hours ago, Apprentice said:

She had more substance in the series then in the movies, even Martin Luther King was a fan of here.

Well, I think that people loved Uhura more for what she represented than what she was given to do as a character.

 

Still noteworthy, mind you, but she easily was the most underused regular member of the original cast.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Rudolph

[Rudolph]

Still on the topic of Nichelle Nichols and her importance to Star Trek, I just watched this video:

 

 

Interestingly enough, I did not know of her role as a recruiter for NASA. Well done, Mrs. Nichols!

[RDETalus]

So the 3rd season of Star Trek: Picard is now over. What did you guys think of it?

 

I thought it was absolutely amazing. I did not like most the new Trek stuff that had been coming out lately, but this 3rd season was practically flawless. Am I crazy, or are my expectations set too low?

[RHhe82]

PIC S3 is certainly the best of modern live-action Trek - although I have yet to see the final episode.

 

That said, I wasn’t completely sold - with a changeling threat, I was hoping to see DS9 get some much-deserved love, but of course it had to be the borg. Worf made a passing remark about Odo, but it feels weird when Worf’s tenure on Enterprise seems to be be-all-end-all. It felt as if Worf still had a thing going for Deanna - a romance that never felt right to me, and especially since he had an actual, believable and significant relationship with Jadzia.

 

Shaw became my favourite character quite fast, much like Lorca, but unlike him, the writers didn’t completely destroy the character before his demise (although I’m not sure if Shaw survived episode 9).

 

Still, I feel like we were served big ball of fanservice, and it gets tiring. Maybe it’s for the best, modern writers seem to have nothing to say or willingness to examine and challenge subjects that interest them, and instead just preach upon them.

Edited April 21, 2023 by RHhe82

[Rudolph]

I am at Babylon 5's season 4 right now and I feel like it is everything Deep Space Nine should have been - minus perhaps the dated early 90s CGI and the eponymous station's design being kind of generic. I can also totally see why Deep Space Nine is considered to be a plagiarism of Babylon 5.

 

I am not a fan of what they did to Michael Garibaldi in season 4, though: it all feels so unnecessarily convoluted.

 

Spoiler

It would have been more interesting for the character to come to this on his own than as the result of some personality alteration bullshit. Even if it is justified by the plot, watching an otherwise likeable character act so out of character for almost an entire season is just so painfully annoying.

 

7 hours ago, RHhe82 said:

PIC S3 is certainly the best of modern live-action Trek - although I have yet to see the final episode.

...Even better than Strange New Worlds?

 

Heck, I hear Prodigy is actually quite good too - and fairly light on fanservice as well.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Rudolph

[RHhe82]

29 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

...Even better than Strange New Worlds?

 

You got me; I actually haven’t watched SNW :( I’ve heard it’s good, but I’m not sure it’s available for streaming in my country (legitly), and certainly not in the services I subscribe to currently.

[Rudolph]

8 minutes ago, RHhe82 said:

You got me; I actually haven’t watched SNW :( I’ve heard it’s good, but I’m not sure it’s available for streaming in my country (legitly), and certainly not in the services I subscribe to currently. 

That is odd. So you have access to Picard, but not Strange New Worlds?

 

How does that work? Are there other Star Trek shows available?

[RHhe82]

22 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

That is odd. So you have access to Picard, but not Strange New Worlds?

 

How does that work? Are there other Star Trek shows available?

Yeah, classic Trek is on Netflix here still, and Picard (and Lower Decks) on Amazon Prime.

 

I’m not sure what’s on Paramount’s service, but I’m under the impression it’s less than in US, which is one reason I’m not subscribing to it (another reason being I already pay for Flix and Amazon)

[RDETalus]

2 hours ago, Rudolph said:

...Even better than Strange New Worlds?

Picard season 3 is entirely about the characters of "The Next Generation," and all the nostalgia surrounding it. So yeah sure it's way better if you like living in that past

[Rudolph]

Just now, RDETalus said:

Picard season 3 is entirely about the characters of "The Next Generation," and all the nostalgia surrounding it. So yeah sure it's way better if you like living in that past

I read the summary on Wikipedia and I was rolling my eyes so hard.

 

Spoiler

The Enterprise D, really? -_-

 

[RDETalus]

1 minute ago, Rudolph said:

I read the summary on Wikipedia and I was rolling my eyes so hard.

 

I don't know why you would spoil it for yourself like that. It's basically the best of the new Trek we've got so far, definitely something that should be watched instead of read about. Yes, it's very very heavy on the nostalgia and fan service but that's all I've ever wanted out of a show titled "Star Trek: PICARD," and most other people it seems based on the reception.

 

What is new though is very strong themes of fatherhood with Picard, Riker, and LaForge. Sets up a nice hero's journey + "the son must save the father from the belly of the beast" story that's simple and immortal.

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, RDETalus said:

I don't know why you would spoil it for yourself like that.

Because I just do not care about spoilers myself. I understand why others would feel differently though.

 

Also, I myself never asked for Star Trek: Picard to begin with. I like Jean-Luc Picard... back when he was captain of the original Enterprise D on the show Star Trek: The Next Generation. After seven seasons and four movies, I feel like everything has been told about the character and I am not particularly interested in seeing what he has been up to now that he is retired. In fact, I am not even convinced that Picard as a show needed more than one season, especially with every season ends up boiling down to the same basic plot, i.e. Picard being old and sad and having to come out of retirement to prevent a world-ending crisis that only he can deal with. Really, the aptly-named The Next Generation finale "All Good Things..." should have been the end of it.

 

On that subject, I feel the need to share the following video again:

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Rudolph

[Bucket]

I had no interest in a new Picard series despite growing up on TNG. I certainly didn't want three seasons of This Was Your Life held together by the most threadbare plots. And the dialogue is just god damned AWFUL. Everyone sounds like an idiot.

 

I generally enjoyed the Kelvin movies even though they're a soft reboot. I think Lower Decks is fun; the fan service mostly stays in the background, or as a basis for new storytelling. Discovery was OK even though it's entirely based on retconning. Haven't seen the other series but one is just an extension of the 1960s pilot and the other is carried by Holo-Janeway.

 

So yeah... I'll just be over here waiting for Star Trek to do NEW and DIFFERENT things again.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Bucket

[Liberation]

The 1st 2 seasons of Picard were debateable really, wasn't mega sold on them myself.

However, having just finished Picard season 3.. Wow, it's been great and certainly the best trek in a very long time.

 

Can't recommend it enough tbh. 

[Rudolph]

Spoiler

I do not know, to me, a premise like "Changelings AND the Borg team up to destroy Earth and it is up to Picard and his secret son to use the Enterprise D to defeat them!" sounds like something straight out of a bad fanfiction. It is one reason why I really did not care for something like Star Trek 2009 either ("Young and cool Kirk and Spock with the TOS Enterprise must stop evil time-travelling Romulan bad guy with his Borg-enhanced planet-killer ship from destroying Earth after the latter blew up Vulcan and killed Spock's mom!").

Which makes it all the more puzzling, given how reportedly neither Strange New Worlds nor even Prodigy indulge this heavily in this kind of pandering.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Rudolph

[HorseJockey]

I'll have to check out Picard season three if you all think it was decent. I was just so disappointed by the first two seasons and most but not all of discovery. It just felt like they were taking Star Trek in a more action oriented direction, everything is gloomy and violent. I haven't watched lower decks, but from what I have been reading it seems that you all have  a fairly positive opinion of that so I might check that out as well. Out of curiosity how is SNW?

[smeghammer]

13 minutes ago, HorseJockey said:

lower decks

Oh definitely watch Lower Decks - it's like Futurama in Star Trek universe. It's got a great mix of silly comedy and quite poignant storylines. And there are MANY MANY cameos by people you may recognise...

[HorseJockey]

I'll check that out then, I was just so disappointed with Picard it kind of soured new Trek to me. Discovery at least had a few episodes that felt like Star Trek the one that comes to mind (everyone says this but hey it was a good episode) is the Saru origin episode. That in my mind was a great example of meshing story telling with the new more modern format they were going for.

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, HorseJockey said:

Out of curiosity how is SNW?

I hear it is the best Star Trek show in a while.

[HorseJockey]

I was intrigued by the trailers and what I saw of Capt. Pike and Una Chin-Riley in discovery. I liked Rebecca Romijn's portrayal of Number 1 so I'll have to check that out then. Just got turned off by the bombastic nonsense that was Picard, but I'll give SNW a shot.

[RDETalus]

7 hours ago, HorseJockey said:

I'll check that out then, I was just so disappointed with Picard it kind of soured new Trek to me.

3rd season is a soft reboot. Completely different themes from 1st and 2nd season. It's structured much more like the best films of Star Trek like Wrath of Khan or First Contact.

[HorseJockey]

While I enjoy First Contact, I always found it a little silly that they go from "Lets save and rehabilitate people who have been borgified" to "Now I have a tommy gun!". I get Picard is scared from the Locutus experience, and who wouldn't be. But it's such a drastic swing in character, especially since the last time we saw Picard was 2 years prior in Generations where he seemed to be dealing with the mental anguish of his borg experience much better than the ptsd in First Contact. Khan I have nothing bad to say about lol, it's easily in my top ten. Also the fact that it's a sequel to Space Seed, and Ricardo Montalbán is just a fantastic actor.

[Rudolph]

10 hours ago, RDETalus said:

It's structured much more like the best films of Star Trek like Wrath of Khan or First Contact.

I might be a minority here, but I do think that those two are actually some of the weakest of the bunch.

 

The Wrath of Khan is just a series of irritating contrivances and Khan is a definitely overrated villain. I can appreciate what Nicolas Meyers was trying to accomplish there, but honestly, a glorified slap fight between two aging narcissists is definitely not what I watch Star Trek for. Also, it set the unfortunate trend of Star Trek movies being like more than stealth remakes of The Wrath of Khan, i.e. The Search for Spock, The Undiscovered Country, Generations, Insurrection, Nemesis, Star Trek 2009, Into Darkness, Beyond...

 

I genuinely enjoy First Contact, but over time, it became more of a guilty pleasure, as the movie is riddled with inconsistencies - not just in regard to the lore (no, not that one), but basic common sense, like the Enterprise crew's utter disregard for preserving the timeline - and most disappointingly turns Picard into a violent maniac and makes the Borg to be genuinely evil (complete with a cartoon villain queen) rather than an amoral alien species.

 

The best Star Trek film to me is easily Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, as it manages the feat of being original - downright experimental at times - and extremely faithful to the Star Trek ethos (right down to the moral conundrum), yet still lighthearted and accessible.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Rudolph

[HorseJockey]

3 hours ago, Rudolph said:

glorified slap fight between two aging narcissists

Just out of curiosity why do you think Kirk is a narcissist? Have you seen Space Seed? Its sounds like your just not a fan of TOS. I get that the writing can be pretty out of touch sometimes, but it was also made in the 60's. Have you seen City on the Edge of Forever, Kirk's actions in that are not that of a narcissist. Just feels like you are conflating outmoded writing with character traits.

[Rudolph]

2 hours ago, HorseJockey said:

Just out of curiosity why do you think Kirk is a narcissist? Have you seen Space Seed? Its sounds like your just not a fan of TOS. I get that the writing can be pretty out of touch sometimes, but it was also made in the 60's. Have you seen City on the Edge of Forever, Kirk's actions in that are not that of a narcissist. Just feels like you are conflating outmoded writing with character traits.

Oh no, I like The Original Series well enough, even if it has not always aged very well. Not too long ago, I have even binge-watched The Animated Series, which despite its technical shortcomings is a fascinating watch.

 

And yeah, I guess I should not have used the term "narcissist"; it is just that both Kirk and Khan have massive egos and most of the conflict in The Wrath of Khan mostly revolves around their mutual desire to humiliate each other. Sure, Kirk is ultimately framed as the good guy, but he still screams "KHAAAN!" when Khan decides to let him live and much like Khan, he does let his pride get in the way of his better judgment.

 

And no, given how Space Seed ended, I do not think The Wrath of Khan is a good follow-up at all: in Space Seed, Khan agreed to being exiled to Ceti Alpha V and there did not seem to be any real hard feelings between him and Kirk, but then in The Wrath of Khan, he is suddenly this salty asshole who is willing to doom himself and his crew just to get revenge on Kirk specifically even though he could have just taken the Reliant and escape. It all feels so forced, right down to Starfleet being suddenly unfamiliar with the previously-explored Mutara sector and the retconning of Chekov and Khan being aware of each other.

 

I much prefer The Search for Spock (which also has its problems, do not get me wrong), since it focuses more on the science-fiction aspect, namely the Genesis Project, rather than Kirk feuding with a bad guy who has personally wronged him.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Rudolph

[HorseJockey]

The animated series rules, I really love it. I also agree with your follow up, the only thing I would point out is that Kirk intended to send them the Ceti Alpha V but instead they were sent to Ceti Alpha VI which was an inhospitable planet, they only reason Khan and his followers survived was because of the super human program they were a part of.

[Rudolph]

4 minutes ago, HorseJockey said:

The animated series rules, I really love it. I also agree with your follow up, the only thing I would point out is that Kirk intended to send them the Ceti Alpha V but instead they were sent to Ceti Alpha VI which was an inhospitable planet, they only reason Khan and his followers survived was because of the super human program they were a part of.

No, actually, Kirk had them sent to the right planet, but somehow Ceti Alpha VI blew up between Space Seed and The Wrath of Khan and rendered Ceti Alpha V inhospitable. For some reason, nobody in Starfleet noticed, not even Chekov, until it was too late.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Rudolph

[HorseJockey]

Was just going to correct that lol. Fair point, why didn't star fleet check up on them in all that time? I suppose you could argue that it displays the cracks in Star Fleet, that they aren't the omnipotent ruling force that portray themselves as. But I don't think that was the intention, and is probably me trying to make excuses for bad writing.

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, HorseJockey said:

Was just going to correct that lol. Fair point, why didn't star fleet check up on them in all that time? I suppose you could argue that it displays the cracks in Star Fleet, that they aren't the omnipotent ruling force that portray themselves as. But I don't think that was the intention, and is probably me trying to make excuses for bad writing.

I would have forgiven this had I actually liked the movie. After all, the very premise of The Search for Spock is also quite contrived: good thing there was Genesis to revive Spock or else poor McCoy would have been stuck with Sock's Katra! :P

 

But anyway, another aspect that I love about The Voyage Home is that it does not actually feature any villain so to speak! Sure, technically, the Alien Probe is endangering Earth, but it is actually not even hostile - unlike V'Ger in The Motion Picture - and the whole conflict is ultimately resolved through non-violence, which is unfortunately the last time this has happened in a Star Trek movie. :(

Edited April 23, 2023 by Rudolph

[Bucket]

"Oh, and by the way, guys: make sure you steer clear of the NEIGHBORING PLANET where we left that clan of evil superhumans."

(roll credits)