How to truly 'replace' monsters?

[Dillar]

So I've been experimenting with Whacked and such, learning how to modify monster's attacks and fundamental stats, etc. and generally feel like I know what I'm doing.

However, I know that in a lot of level packs with new monsters, they 'replace' things like commander keen to get a new monster spot. Are there any good tutorials or simple ways to do that?

 

Thanks!

[Burgish]

I'm afraid I don't know much about Whacked, but in DECORATE it's as simple as defining the actor as replacing the standard one.

 

Here's a DECORATE snippet from my Lizardman that replaces normal zombies.  The first "Lizardman" after the : sign tells the actor to inherit all undefined properties from Zombieman, and the second after "Replaces" puts them into levels where the Zombieman would normally be.

Not too sure how compatible Whacked and DECORATE are, but this is how I do it. Hope this helps!

 

 

I'll include the .wad as well in case it might help - I've also got a second kind of lizardman replacing Pinkies.

lizardman.zip

[user76828904]

@Burgish_Nilwert Thanks for the lizardman. I still don't know if I must learn DECORATE or ZScript. I going to search in the forum.

[Burgish]

Just now, user76828904 said:

@Burgish_Nilwert Thanks for the lizardman. I still don't know if I must learn DECORATE or ZScript. I going to search in the forum.

 

Depends what you want to do.  DECORATE is really good for editing and customizing weapons, items, and monsters, and so far that's all I'm using it for. 

[user76828904]

@Burgish_Nilwert Thanks for the advice. I'm going to give it a try to DECORATE.

[SMG_Man]

1 hour ago, Burgish_Nilwert said:

Not too sure how compatible Whacked and DECORATE are,

 

WhackEd (so really DeHackEd stuff) and DECORATE should be perfectly compatible.

 

The caveat is that DECORATE is (mostly) only supported by ZDoom and related ports like GZDoom and Zandronum, while DeHackEd on the other hand is more widely supported. If a mod is targeting non-ZDoom source ports, such as PrBoom+, Crispy Doom, etc., stuff with DECORATE isn't going to be very helpful.

[user76828904]

@SMG_Man Is there a problem with GZDoom only compatible maps and mods?

[Syn]

1 hour ago, user76828904 said:

@SMG_Man Is there a problem with GZDoom only compatible maps and mods?

No, some people just don't like using the ZDoom family of ports, usually for it not being true to vanilla even when the compatibility is set to Doom (Strict). Plus ports like GZDoom have many modifications like Hardware Accelerated rendering which can wash out the contrast of the colors and other things.

 

Usually, just target what port you happen to use.

[Biz!]

If you would like a somewhat more accessible way to create new monsters, DEHEXTRA allows support up to 3999 frames, adds 99 new monsters/entities, and adds 100 extra sounds. If you want more variety, the more recent MBF21 spec, with DSDHACKED which supports infinite monsters, frames, and sounds, supports better scrolling, instakill floors, and wider customization for weapons and monsters.

[Spawn]

4 hours ago, user76828904 said:

@Burgish_Nilwert Thanks for the lizardman. I still don't know if I must learn DECORATE or ZScript. I going to search in the forum.

Problem is - ZScript supported only by newest versions of GZDoom (so yeah, the name is misleading as Hell), and thus using it greatly limiting the availability of your map/mappack or mod. People who prefer multiplayer using Zandronum (which is based on old version of Geezee, before ZScript was even created), for example. People who have PCs as in "potato computers", even if they're using GZDoom, they using old versions (again, before ZScript was implemented), for another example. And many "new" tricks that are in ZScript can be easily (not always tho) recreated using Decorate or Decorate+ACS (in fact, too many people tend to use ZScript while not even needing any of it's new features). And ZScript is still in development, just like Geezee itself, so there is always a fairly high possibility that what you've written in the past will not work in newest versions. Decorate (and ACS), on the other hand, is finished and thus stable, you don't need to think about compatibility with some other versions. So, it's not only dem purists who don't play ZScripted maps or mods - many people simply can't play it.

[user76828904]

@SynDoom The vanilla thing is something that eludes me to this day. I guess I will still use GZDoom.

@Spawn I think I will learn DECORATE and ZScript. Yes. I'm going to take the risk.

[Dillar]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I was trying to limit how many programs I have to juggle and keep things vanilla-compatible, but it sounds like DECORATE is the real tool for this and what I assume mods like Eviternity and Valiant use, so time to brush up on tutorials for it.

[Dillar]

However I will say I am currently having zero luck finding download links for either ZScript or for DECORATE; don't know if I'm missing something obvious...

[SMG_Man]

ZScript and DECORATE are programming languages supported by ZDoom and related ports (GZDoom and Zandronum). The editor that you need to modify them is SLADE 3; it's a tool that will open up and show all the contents of a WAD. For example:

 

 

On the left there, you can see some of the entries in one of my WADs in SLADE. DECORATE is just one of the text-based entries; there are also text entries for MAPINFO (handles a lot of the game's behavior in ZDoom), ANIMDEFS (defines custom animations for wall textures, flat textures, and switches), and GLDEFS (GZDoom specific, this one defines dynamic lighting).

 

ZScript and DECORATE are (mostly) used for defining monsters and other custom Things, so take a look and see which one has a syntax you're more comfortable with. Personally, since DECORATE is what I got started with and I don't have any programming background outside of Doom stuff, I've not really bothered with ZScript. But if you've worked with Java or C++, ZScript might be easier for you to pick up.

 

For documentation on DECORATE and ZScript, check out the ZDoom wiki: https://www.zdoom.org/wiki/Main_Page It has helped me a shitload with modding for (G)ZDoom.

Edited December 6, 2021 by SMG_Man

[Albertoni]

On 12/3/2021 at 10:59 PM, Spawn said:

Decorate (and ACS), on the other hand, is finished and thus stable

 

Yes but no. They're backwards compatible, that is, what worked on GZDoom 2 should work on GZDoom 4, unless you were exploiting a bug or something similar.

 

For example, Idle Doom only works on ZDoom 2.4 onwards, as this thingy named User Variables was added at that point, and Idle Doom only exists because of it. So nothing (other than Graf) stops someone from adding some new feature to those two languages.

[Spawn]

Details. Granted, nothing is truly dead unless there is at least one man giving it a push from time to time - but comparing to ZScript that's constantly changing both are basically dead as Siberian mammoths - not rotting, but nicely preserved in ice. +)

[RonnieJamesDiner]

If you're still interested in the Dehacked / Whacked / vanilla compatible approach, I can't recommend any tutorial more than this one: