How are Cacoward Winners Decided?

[QuaketallicA]

I know there's a panel, but good lord just among the winners for one year alone, I'm dumbfounded by the amount of wads, each one possibly containing an entire episode or 30-map megawad. I can only imagine how much time it takes to play through all of these, let alone the hundreds of submissions you get in a year from the community. I also assume obviously not all the judges play all maps, since that would take forever, you've got to split them up.

 

So I have a few questions:

1) How do you guys have the time to actually play all of this? Do you do all of them from start to finish, or if it's clear early on this isn't that good or it's great, then you make a decision before completing?

 

2) How do you determine one wad is a winner and another isn't? What if the same wad is "Cacoward-winning" according to one judge, but if a different judge played it, they might feel otherwise?

 

3) Why do you guys write about wad authors as though you're writing an obituary? By that, I mean, people shower nothing but endless praise on you once you're dead. Okay, I get it, it's a winner, you think so-and-so's fantastic. Could you just quickly tell me what's interesting or unique about this map/mapset and spare me the flowery language? A few lines and screenshots ought to suffice. It starts to feel like every review just blurs into one big ego stroke for the god-tier human being you have deemed a winner.

[D4NUK1]

30 minutes ago, QuaketallicA said:

3) Why do you guys write about wad authors as though you're writing an obituary? By that, I mean, people shower nothing but endless praise on you once you're dead. Okay, I get it, it's a winner, you think so-and-so's fantastic. Could you just quickly tell me what's interesting or unique about this map/mapset and spare me the flowery language? A few lines and screenshots ought to suffice. It starts to feel like every review just blurs into one big ego stroke for the god-tier human being you have deemed a winner.

I'm not part of the judges or anything, but this is one of the best aspect of the recents Cacoawards. 
The Doom classic community is so large and outstanding across 25 years that they need to explain really well how well crafted it's their .wad and how fares individuality and as a point of interest in this year in the Doom Community.

This is not a simple TOP12, and it's got their spot as respected by many sources, websites, game devs & modders (new and old's) so not take that "flowery languge" as something bad but really signs of the respect in various creations and mods of all the community.  
 

[Doomkid]

I guess some Caco writeups are a little too "full of praise" and flowery, but I certainly wouldn't want them any shorter. I like having a more detailed analysis of a wad than just "here's a good thing about it, now go have fun". I see the merit in those kinds of short n' sweet reviews, but for a once-yearly ceremony, I think it's fair for there to be some text walls. They could stand to be a little less effusive in some instances to avoid the "eulogy" feel, but I hope they stay long and detailed either way.

[ducon]

It depends on the year. Sometimes someone rolls a die, sometimes two dice (woohoo), sometimes someone counts the number of BFG9000 hits to kill a cyberdemon…

You see, they are creative.

Edited December 16, 2021 by ducon

[Major Arlene]

1. we have an entire year to do this, and yes, generally split the load.

2. we discuss it, and if we like it as a group, we generally pick it. sometimes we'll have "passion picks" where only a couple of us make a really strong case for an award-winner.

3. because we want to. we like to write, yo.

[Horus]

2 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

Could you just quickly tell me what's interesting or unique about this map/mapset and spare me the flowery language?

 

Hell no. The passion in the write-ups are what make them worth reading.

[dew]

3 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

1. we have an entire year to do this, and yes, generally split the load. 

Except DotW who plays everything regardless of circumstance. Some say that he's like the hero of the folklore story Crank, and if he ever stops playing wads, he will die.

 

As for 3), it's an award, not a review. We're not writing it to inform you about the pros and cons and how the wad doesn't live up to the original manga. We're celebrating the best projects of the year, therefore the text focuses on celebration. The reader just needs to decode if it represents the same sort of values they also celebrate.

[Bridgeburner56]

The eldritch entity Cthulu reaches through space time to tell the committee who must be chosen in order to maintain The Great Plan to bring about the subsuming of the mortal plan by The Old Ones.

[Antkibo]

2 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

Okay, I get it, it's a winner, you think so-and-so's fantastic. Could you just quickly tell me what's interesting or unique about this map/mapset and spare me the flowery language?

Eh, no? I read Cacowards mostly for the prose tbh, as am sure many people do.

 

That's like complaining poets should not waste so much ink on why the moon is beautiful.

[Morpheus666]

I've always thought of the Caco-Awards as a performance tbh. It's meant to entertain and spread the praise for hard working Doom members who make very impressive stuff, Some of them can feel like a ego-stroke, but most of it's a presentation and personally i think they give every Wad that they review the right amount of coverage and time discussing what makes it stand out. 

[baja blast rd.]

2 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

2) How do you determine one wad is a winner and another isn't? What if the same wad is "Cacoward-winning" according to one judge, but if a different judge played it, they might feel otherwise?

Methods have been refined over the last 10+ years to do this really effectively. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

1) How do you guys have the time to actually play all of this? Do you do all of them from start to finish, or if it's clear early on this isn't that good or it's great, then you make a decision before completing?

 

This is probably playing our hand, but one of the best things about the recent development of MBF21 is that there are now more dogs to help out with the judging. (21)

 

2 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

3) Why do you guys write about wad authors as though you're writing an obituary? By that, I mean, people shower nothing but endless praise on you once you're dead. Okay, I get it, it's a winner, you think so-and-so's fantastic. Could you just quickly tell me what's interesting or unique about this map/mapset and spare me the flowery language? A few lines and screenshots ought to suffice. It starts to feel like every review just blurs into one big ego stroke for the god-tier human being you have deemed a winner.

 

We will forward these complaints to the ghostwriting team. 

 

(After their walk.) 

[Major Arlene]

23 minutes ago, Bridgeburner56 said:

The eldritch entity Cthulu reaches through space time to tell the committee who must be chosen in order to maintain The Great Plan to bring about the subsuming of the mortal plan by The Old Ones.

shit he's onto us

[Omniarch]

15 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

3) Why do you guys write about wad authors as though you're writing an obituary? By that, I mean, people shower nothing but endless praise on you once you're dead. Okay, I get it, it's a winner, you think so-and-so's fantastic. Could you just quickly tell me what's interesting or unique about this map/mapset and spare me the flowery language? A few lines and screenshots ought to suffice. It starts to feel like every review just blurs into one big ego stroke for the god-tier human being you have deemed a winner.

(asshat voice) *ahem* As one of Doomworld's principle purveyors of pretentious purple prose, I'll have you know that supplicative ego-stroking is among the Wordsmith's most essential skills. In days gone by, our primary function was to flatter the egos of reigning potentates, spinning tales of valour and piety from the whole cloth of their sordid and miserable lives. Likewise, in the twenty-first century Anno Domini, we sing the praises of the overlords of the digital fiefs in which we dwell, in hopes of finding ourselves a place beside their virtual hearths. (/asshat voice)

 

In all seriousness, I write as I do because it pleases me, and I'm sure my colleagues feel the same. There really ain't anything else to it.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Omniarch

[Redneckerz]

It is determined by spinning Hissy a couple of times around.

 

Cacowards members come together in a Teams or Zoom session to see Hissy spin.

 

Whichever direction Hissy is facing will be the user who will has to decide.

 

If Hissy is facing away from the screen, It means a debate should ensue because even Hissy does not know which one should get an award.

 

And Hissy's word is final.

[Scuba Steve]

1 hour ago, Morpheus666 said:

It's meant to entertain and spread the praise for hard working Doom members who make very impressive stuff

This was always the intention. The difference between film/tv/music/theater awards and game awards is that the former are always a celebration of the industry, the great things it has produced, and the people involved... Whereas game awards are essentially advertising; more time is spent showcasing upcoming games you should buy, they don't actually celebrate anything in gaming.

 

From the beginning the hope was that the Cacowards would be a celebration of the Doom community... Even if some of the early articles were less than polite.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Scuba Steve

[Dodgy Dave]

The winners are determined via Paypal deposit.

[Bobby :D]

The same way Family Guy's jokes are written.

[magicsofa]

Considering the fact that 99.9999% of wads were produced via hours upon hours of hard work, FOR FREE, a little ego-stroking is totally acceptable. You didn't pay for any wads and you didn't pay to read the cacowards. You're also not required to read the cacowards at all, or to care about who wins. Or to download any of the winner's material...

[dew]

57 minutes ago, Bobby “lolmcswagger” said:

The same way Family Guy's jokes are written. 

LAME, get this loser out of- *five minute repetitive fight sequence with the chicken* -oooohhhhhhhh....

[baja blast rd.]

Also on a (slightly) more serious note, authors' strong traits and skills tend to be present in the wads they make. So an approach like "this author is good at X, Y, and Z -- and this wad exemplifies that by doing all these specific things" is a pretty valid one imo. I have also appreciated older writeups that contextualize authors' work, because it helps you make webs of association and understand the scene very quickly. #3 is a confusing complaint tbh. 

 

It seems like you just want a Quick Hits rundown of what to play, which is fair, but that is not what the feature is, and you should not expect the whole feature to orient itself around that aim. Rather, try to encourage people -- ideally a different group of people with extra energy to spare for it -- to do that separately and ideally be willing to contribute to it yourself.

 

The awards are not and can not be everything to everyone -- thankfully (would you want the future success of a wad and all its validation to hang on one group of people's thoughts? that sounds awful). The sooner people who expect it to be one realize that, and contribute to the discourse of Doom's creative scene themselves instead of mostly complaining, the better the community will be for it. 

 

Like, we're in mid-December and it's been a great year, but there's only been one big rundown, and that might be the only one there is?! As someone who likes reading things about Doom, that would really disappoint me.

[Rayziik]

4 hours ago, rd. said:

This is probably playing our hand, but one of the best things about the recent development of MBF21 is that there are now more dogs to help out with the judging. (21)

 

How could you! Free the doggos!

[Astronomical]

2 hours ago, Bobby “lolmcswagger” said:

The same way Family Guy's jokes are written.

Wait, but cacoawards are actually awarded

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

11 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

Okay, I get it, it's a winner, you think so-and-so's fantastic. Could you just quickly tell me what's interesting or unique about this map/mapset and spare me the flowery language? A few lines and screenshots ought to suffice.

This brings to mind film "reviews" from my local newspaper.

 

"Transformers is an action movie directed by Michael Bay. Transformers contains action, with some comedic aspects. Throughout the film, characters encounter giant robots. We award the film with 4 out of 5 stars ⭐⭐⭐⭐"

 

They write reviews like that^ because they are directed at average Joes who don't understand "flowery" words like "cinematography". This is a forum for hardcore DOOM fans who are knowledgable enough to understand what they are reading.

 

Therefore, if you aren't going to tell me about what you're reviewing, don't waste my time.

Edited December 16, 2021 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[Kinsie]

15 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

1) How do you guys have the time to actually play all of this? Do you do all of them from start to finish, or if it's clear early on this isn't that good or it's great, then you make a decision before completing?

I'm not hugely involved in the level design awards so I can't really answer this, but you'd be surprised what ten or so people can do in a year, even with IRL intruding as it so often does.

 

15 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

2) How do you determine one wad is a winner and another isn't? What if the same wad is "Cacoward-winning" according to one judge, but if a different judge played it, they might feel otherwise?

Talking. Lots, and lots, and lots of talking. Some wads there's not really a lot of debate since everyone agrees it's great, other stuff has a decent back and forth trying to figure out where it fits, and a few things can get really contentious, especially as more releases come out and we have to choose what's a winner, what's an honorable mention, what's one of the other awards (machaward etc.) and what doesn't quite make it into our limited space.

 

15 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

3) Why do you guys write about wad authors as though you're writing an obituary? By that, I mean, people shower nothing but endless praise on you once you're dead. Okay, I get it, it's a winner, you think so-and-so's fantastic. Could you just quickly tell me what's interesting or unique about this map/mapset and spare me the flowery language? A few lines and screenshots ought to suffice. It starts to feel like every review just blurs into one big ego stroke for the god-tier human being you have deemed a winner.

What you need to understand is I'm a colossal wanker and if you give me even the slightest opportunity to get flowery with my prose I will beat it into the dirt so hard that neo-archeologists will stare at it in confusion upon digging up its broken remains 1000 years later, where it will sit as the root of a flawed understanding of our long-dead civilization.

 

In all seriousness, though, the Cacowards is a celebration of the best of a great annual crop of Doom stuff. It's entire purpose is effusive praise and pointing out all the cool shit the community does to the wider world in webzine™ format. Both shorter and longer-form descriptions have their places, and odds are they're roughly one subforum away from where you're currently standing.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Kinsie

[Astronomical]

8 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

"Transformers is an action movie directed by Michael Bay. Transformers contains action, with some comedic aspects. Throughout the film, characters encounter giant robots. We award the film with 4 out of 5 stars ⭐⭐⭐⭐"

 

 

"Ray Mowhawk is a wad by doomkid, the wad contains action, with some dehacked aspects, throughout the wad, Ray shoots demons."

 

 

Alright where do I apply to write the 2022 Cacoawards? 

[magicsofa]

1 hour ago, Astronomical said:

 

"Ray Mowhawk is a wad by doomkid, the wad contains action, with some dehacked aspects, throughout the wad, Ray shoots demons."

 

 

Alright where do I apply to write the 2022 Cacoawards? 

You forgot to award the wad 4 out of 5 stars, disqualified

[Antkibo]

2 hours ago, Astronomical said:

 

"Ray Mowhawk is a wad by doomkid, the wad contains action, with some dehacked aspects, throughout the wad, Ray shoots demons."

"0/10 no mowhawk to be found"

Edited December 16, 2021 by Antkibo

[Astronomical]

12 minutes ago, Antkibo said:

"0/10 no mowhawk to be found"

Slander

[Eurisko]

I would love to see the CacoAwards done in video form. Proper awards gala-esque if you get my drift. 

[Major Arlene]

1 minute ago, Eurisko said:

I would love to see the CacoAwards done in video form. Proper awards gala-esque if you get my drift. 

it's been something that's been discussed a few times but ultimately it's incredibly time consuming to edit together all that stuff on top of having written awards (and I'd personally like to keep written records of awards, still- links and information get messy in Youtube descriptions). What has happened the past couple of years is that @Bridgeburner56 and myself have done livestreams with readings/discussions of the awards after they drop and that's been received pretty successfully.