10 Changes that could improve Doom3 BFG Edition

[Akfiz]

I know Doom 3 BFG was released in 2012 but still. So far, Doom3 BFG is the best way to play the old school Doom3. However, outside the widescreen, improved graphic pack and new The Lost Missions campaign I expected a lot more. The graphics team did a great job, however the game's implementation seems a bit rough around the edges, with things like taking a screenshot with F12 locks you out of achievements, you are not warned of this until you are about to make an achievement, and you have to edit the game's files in order to get achievements again despite not using console. And some other things could have been exceuted better in my opinion. After playing a bit of Doom3 BFG edition, here are 10 improvements I would make to make Doom3 BFG edition more smooth:

 

I. General Overlay

 

1. Fix the F12 locked out of achievements bug -> Add game option whether you want to enable or disable console during a game. During load game, show in a text whether that save had console enabled or disabled (so you know whether you'll play a game with achievements enabled or disabled). During a game, if you activate console, have a little text above your health and armor bar say "achievements disabled" instead of a pop-up that shows right before you get an achievement.

 

2. Add separate volumes for game volume and players volume -> So that you can set a higher volume for other players that you talk with during the game. As it stands right now, lowering the game's volume automatically lowers the other players' microphone volumes as well.

 

3. Add a squared picture with a screenshot when looking at "load games" and in lobby for the selected map during multiplayer games -> Just like in the original Doom3, when you enterted "load game", a screenshot will show you the poster picture of the level for autosaves or a screenshot during the time of the save for manual saves or quicksaves. And in multiplayer lobbies, a screenshot will show you the map that you are about to play on. It's a easier for some people to remember places by pictures rather than names.

 

4. Add a prefix "Autosave: " for autosaves and "Quicksave: " for quicksaves in the saves -> For example in the first level, Mars City, an autosave woud look like "Autosave: Mars City", a quicksave would look like "Quicksave: Mars City" and a manual save would look like "Mars City". This coombined with the screenshots makes the management and recognition of different saves a lot easier for the player.

 

5. Add game option for dead bodies of enemies (incloding monsters) to remain on the ground -> There is something funny someone once told me "you can recognise an old school game by the bodies that remain on the ground after death, and you can recognise where on the map you are in an old school game by the bodies that remain on the ground after death", which is funny bue true. Also, having dead bodies of the enemies remain on the ground after death gives the game more immersion and it makes you remember the battle, especially when you're going backwards to pick up some health. This wasn't possible in 2004 due to lack of resources, but now I believe the modern computers have more than enough power to process bodies staying on the ground in a level.

 

II. Multiplayer

 

6. Add Peer-to-Peer connection instead of dedicated servers -> Doom3 BFG edition was never meant to have its servers full like other multiplayer-focused game. It's mainly a singleplayer experience with a multiplayer mode next to it. As such, I believe it would be more beneficial to the playerbase and to the company if the servers would be hosted by the host player rather than the company.

 

7. Add an ELO-based ranking system in the "leaderboards" instead of score with V/L and KDA -> This would make the multiplayer a lot more competitive than it currently is for those who wish to engage in such a thing. The first and most important line would be ELO, just like Chess (bad comparsion going from Doom to Chess, I know) your ELO is based on your position at the end of a game and the ELOs of the other players you played with, based on this you gain or lose ELO. The next in line beside this stat should be your win-lose ratio followed by your kill-death-assist ratio. The latter of which should be there only for the player's interest, those who don't will simply ignore the leaderboards.

 

8. Instead of "Create Private Match" and "Play with Friends" one should have "Create Casual Match" and "Join Casual Match" as opposed to "Quick Game" and "Find Game" which are for ranked games ->The "Join Casual Match" simply shows the list of all servers, just like in the old Doom3 and Doom3 ROE, and if a player wishes to play only with friends he can make the server private with a password, just like in the old Doom3. While "Create Casual Match" creates servers for this. This method is a lot more accessible for some players.

 

III. New Content

 

9. Cooperative Campaign -> A cooperative mode for the campaigns just like Doom3 had on the original Xbox and plenty of mods had on the PC version of Doom3. Another character model will be inserted in cutscenes (where the main character has no voice anyway so there's no need for extra recording) who will be player 2. If a player dies he will be respawned at the start of the level with only a pistol. To incentivize players not to die but also not fail the mission if they die. The first player to pick-up an item is the one who takes the item, so they need to manage this. Player 1 will have the artifacts in Doom 3 and Doom 3 ROE (where player 2 is another Marine from the squad that survived). While in TLM it's another Bravo Squad member that survived. Elevators and other important doors need to be activated by both players to work, the same is true for exit level buttons. When you click "cooperative" you have 3 options: "Splitscreen" (some people can do that), "Create Match" and "Join Match". In Create Match you can automatically invite a friend via Steam, make it a public match or make it a private match with password. You can start a new cooperative campaign or load a cooperative campaign (different from singleplayer load games; remember the loadout of both players), then you click "start" and the game begins. If someone disconnects during play, they should have the option to join back via hotjoin. Playing games especially campaigns cooperative with your friends is a lot more fun than playing alone and Doom3 seems like the game that would work well as a horror co-op.

 

10. Horde Mode -> Something that the newer Doom titles have and a lot of people love. If the cooperative mode has a maximum number of 2 players, and the multiplayer modes have a maximum number of 8 players, the horde mode has a maximum number of 4 players. The idea is very simple: you are in an Arena-based map, even greater if these maps are taken from already existing maps from the 3 campaigns. And waves of enemies come to kill you, the goal is to survive as many waves as possible. You get health kits, armor, ammo and weapons spawned after each new wave. The waves should have no limits and at some point simply replace enemies with stronger enemies and increase their number. Just like in multiplayer, the options should be: "Quick Game", "Find Game", "Create Casual Match", "Join Casual Match" and "Leaderboards". The difference between casual & ranked player, beside the leaderboards, is that in casual you can opt for not respawning health & ammo after a round, especially making the Horde Mode a sudden death mode and more hardcore, and you can select an option to activate the console commands, in case you want to mess around alone or with friends (if possible) on the horde maps. The "leaderboards" should track: waves survived, enemies killed/death, survival streak (meaning winning rounds where you yourself didn't die). It doesn't have to have a big roaster of maps, somewhere around 5 maps should be enough as the majority of players would play for the kills, but there should be one map with low light where the players have to use their lights.

 

The Cooperative and Horde Mode will be added in the main menu as following: Campaign, Cooperative, Horde Mode, Multiplayer, Settings, Credit, Quit.

 

Especially the last 2 additions will truly boost Doom3 BFGs value and offer a lot more replayability and fun with friends. That's it, I hoped you enjoyed my list, it's unlikely to happen but a man can still hope.

[Akfiz]

A clarification and some funny easter-eggs:

 

In cooperative mode, the players' PDA is shared, the only thing that is different is the player's name. In rest, when a player picks-up a PDA or video, both players will have that in their own PDA. To avoid confusion with management with these. And now for the easter-eggs:

 

Some levels are modified to add another Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3 in places where there is already one. This way, the cooperative players can have a bit of fun by competiting with one another with the Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3 game. Who makes the greater score the fastest and so on. In order to make duplicate alternative maps for singleplayer and cooperative, the easiest thing to do is to add them both on the same map, there is no issue if a singleplayer campaign player sees two Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3 games next to each other. And there aren't many Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3 locations in Doom3 or Doom3 ROE.

 

A singleplayer/cooperative leaderboard for the player's score in Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3. This is absurd and only for fun, it servers no purpose, as it's just a game where you have to click to gain score, but that's the whole point. The only issue may be that some players may use auto-clickers and the score may overflow. I don't know whether there is a hard cap to Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3's score, but there should at least be a hard cap to Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3's score in the leaderboards.

 

A nice humor relief in an otherwise horror game. It could be argued that this may make the game too silly, especially the leaderboard for Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3, but Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3 is only a very small part in an otherwise full horror game. People will likely have fun with Super Turbo Turkey Puncher 3 once or twice in cooperative, or trying to have a bigger score, and then leave it and forget about it. Just like they are already doing now in singleplayer campaign.

[Lippeth]

I may only agree with about 10% of this, but appreciate your take on it and enjoy how diverse players can be.

 

2 hours ago, Akfiz said:

So far, Doom3 BFG is the best way to play the old school Doom3. However, outside the widescreen, improved graphic pack and new The Lost Missions campaign I expected a lot more.

I still consider the last update to the original game to be the definitive version. The BFG Edition is natively widescreen sure, but all the cutscenes are zoomed in, cutting off the top and bottom of the frame. The original also supports widescreen, and simply opens up instead of zooming in. Generally I play the original in 4:3 anyway and have always been indifferent to widescreen in first-person shooters because the focus is in the center of the screen and good sound design should be the indicator of what's going on in your peripherals. I never understood the trend of widescreen monitors in general anyway, but that's a whole different thing.

 

The new textures in BFG are also very inconsistent and look especially poor and flat on top of the low count polygons and simpler geometry. I have the same issue with most texture mods, and if BFG Ed. were just a texture mod, I would rank it among the lowest. The skins and textures in the original game aren't especially breathtaking by today's standards, but they fit the game and are mostly consistent throughout. I could have seen the BFG Ed. take the really low res textures and increasing them from the source to at least go from 64 pixels to 256 or 512, but they didn't even do that, they just slapped weird looking skins onto the characters and called it a day.

 

The Lost Mission is excellent, I agree on that. It's also been unofficially ported to the original game.

 

Any sort of leaderboard, ranking system or achievements gets a big "who cares" from me, It's just extra noise that goes right along with any sort of social implementation or share button. That being said I do enjoy co-op modes in theory, though I never get the opportunity to play co-op because I don't know anyone in real life who plays the same games I do, and coordinating with strangers is oddly difficult. That said, the original game has an unofficial co-op mode add-on which I can see as being very fun and would love to try it out with someone. I've tried it by myself and it's fun I guess but it sort of defeats the purpose of co-op with just one person.

 

I keep autosave turned off and only quicksave anyway, so I don't really have an opinion on how the saved files are stored, my only issue is the pause it does while it's saving.

 

And I'm glad the corpses disappear because if they don't then they have a tendency to ragdoll and flip out and never stop sometimes. I agree with your sentiment and enjoy how it works in the first two Doom games, but I always thought the burnaway effect in Doom 3 is pretty cool, though it does look worse in the BFG Ed. because the whole corpse turns orange before fading away for some reason.

 

Sorry, for the wall of text, I like talking about Doom 3 it seems.

[Akfiz]

11 hours ago, Lippeth said:

I may only agree with about 10% of this, but appreciate your take on it and enjoy how diverse players can be.

  

I still consider the last update to the original game to be the definitive version. The BFG Edition is natively widescreen sure, but all the cutscenes are zoomed in, cutting off the top and bottom of the frame. The original also supports widescreen, and simply opens up instead of zooming in. Generally I play the original in 4:3 anyway and have always been indifferent to widescreen in first-person shooters because the focus is in the center of the screen and good sound design should be the indicator of what's going on in your peripherals. I never understood the trend of widescreen monitors in general anyway, but that's a whole different thing.

 

The new textures in BFG are also very inconsistent and look especially poor and flat on top of the low count polygons and simpler geometry. I have the same issue with most texture mods, and if BFG Ed. were just a texture mod, I would rank it among the lowest. The skins and textures in the original game aren't especially breathtaking by today's standards, but they fit the game and are mostly consistent throughout. I could have seen the BFG Ed. take the really low res textures and increasing them from the source to at least go from 64 pixels to 256 or 512, but they didn't even do that, they just slapped weird looking skins onto the characters and called it a day.

 

The Lost Mission is excellent, I agree on that. It's also been unofficially ported to the original game.

 

Any sort of leaderboard, ranking system or achievements gets a big "who cares" from me, It's just extra noise that goes right along with any sort of social implementation or share button. That being said I do enjoy co-op modes in theory, though I never get the opportunity to play co-op because I don't know anyone in real life who plays the same games I do, and coordinating with strangers is oddly difficult. That said, the original game has an unofficial co-op mode add-on which I can see as being very fun and would love to try it out with someone. I've tried it by myself and it's fun I guess but it sort of defeats the purpose of co-op with just one person.

 

I keep autosave turned off and only quicksave anyway, so I don't really have an opinion on how the saved files are stored, my only issue is the pause it does while it's saving.

  

And I'm glad the corpses disappear because if they don't then they have a tendency to ragdoll and flip out and never stop sometimes. I agree with your sentiment and enjoy how it works in the first two Doom games, but I always thought the burnaway effect in Doom 3 is pretty cool, though it does look worse in the BFG Ed. because the whole corpse turns orange before fading away for some reason.

 

Sorry, for the wall of text, I like talking about Doom 3 it seems.

I appreciate the wall of text.

 

I consider BFG Edition to be the definitive edition solely for the fact that it has 5 games in 1 (if we include the Last Mission), would have been nice if it also had Plutonia Experiment and TNT Evolution of Doom2 as well as a multiplayer for Doom1 and Doom2 so we can have the full experience. See ZDaemon's take on Doom1 and Doom2 for example. As for Doom3 itself, I have seen Perfected Doom3 mod, which in my opinion goes way too over the top and becomes way too silly for a horror game. It's just an overkill, adding too many new things some of which I dislike.

 

 

There was an old Doom3 mod back in the day, I don't remember its name but it had something like "v2" at the end and there was a video on Youtube comparing it with the original Doom3, that's where I saw the lack of dissapearing corpses for the first time and I liked it.

 

While certainly there are better HD textures mod for Doom3 out there, I find Doom3 BFG Edition a great round-up. Definetly not the best out of all the 4k mods out there, but also not bad in my opinion. I have had games whose remastered HD textures I hated or thought they make it worse or just doesn't bring enough value, Doom3 BFG Edition is not one of them. In conclusion, I'd say that while they didn't outshine all the mods out there in terms of HD textures, they did a good enough job for me to like it and to make this a solid HD update, I have nothing to complain about in that regard.

 

Maybe because I'm not a huge graphics fan myself. I enjoy good graphics as far as it's enough for them to be pleasant, enjoyable and live up to their times. Other than that, I'm not looking nor care if a game is HD enough to look like real life as long as the gameplay is fun, and sometimes is more important for me to have a sense of style than the most ultrarealistic grahpics, and Doom3 certainly has style.

 

In my opinion, Doom3 wants to be a horror fast-paced action game. Not as fast paced as Doom 2016, but not slow-paced eighter, and I think the BFG Edition nails that perfectly with the new flashlight system. Which when I heard about it I thought I wouldn't like it, but when I played with it I enjoyed it a lot more than the original Doom3 flashlight. I know, light management, but some players don't want light management, others do, and that's just fine.

 

I like the fact that Doom3 BFG Edition just made a game a bit more fast-paced. But I still hate shotgun, it would have been nice if they gave both shotguns less pallets but also less spread, so their shooting would be more consistent.

 

For the leaderboard, I'm not a big fun myself either. After all Doom3 is not a highly competitive game like Counter-Strike or League of Legends expected for esports. But, in regards with the current leaderboards system of score, an ELO would have been more fun and more accurate. At least you won't "level up" there just by grinding but by actually getting better, so it's a nice check for your improvement in multiplayer.

 

It's very easy to coop without a stranger. You just go to a forum, this forum or the steam forum and ask who wants to coop with you. You use headsets and Discord (or the in-game voice since now it has one) and that's it. I agree with you that playing with randoms is not that fun, some people like it, but for me, I'd rather consistenly play with 1 person I know or get to know.

 

For the cooperative mode, I know that Last Man Standing or Open Co-op mods allow 4 players, but it's always cramped on the corridors if you know what I mean. Also, having 4 players completely removes the horror effect. The 2 players cooperative campaign on the other hand seems to do the trick, it's also way easier to polish the cooperative mode (cutscenes, end level press, etc) with only 2 players.

 

I guess mods can be added to remove the 2 players barrier, in fact. To make the game mode modable and live longer, a specific folder for mods could be added, and have the menu be something like: Campaign, Cooperative, Horde Mode, Multiplayer, Mods, Settings, Credit, Quit. To have a more user-friendly interface for users to add or switch mods. With mods you can make everything out of a game.

 

What about the Horde Mode? are your thoughts on it similar to cooperative? Even when playing alone horde mode can be fun in my opinion. Just mindless killing.

 

I see your point about autosaves. Personally, I enjoy having a lot of saves so I can replay a certain area with a certain gear I used to have. I remember seeing this mechanic in the original Doom3 and I liked it. Saves only take little memory anyway so I doubt is much of an inconvenience, and players who don't like having many saves can simply delete them. I guess there should be a 4th type of save - level - bringing the total up to 4:

- Level: - for each start of a new level

- Autosave: - the most recent autosave

- Quicksave: - goes without saying

- And manual save.

 

In some poorly optimized games they do ragdoll and flip out and never stop sometimes, but that's not the fault of the mechanic itself. Personally, I always found the complete disappearance of bodies completely unrealistic, breaking immersion on some level, and I see I'm not the only one:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/379720/discussions/0/1333474229083885346/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/379720/discussions/0/357286119112358740/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/hdgfs2/doom_3_how_can_i_make_bodies_stay_longer_without/

 

But it can be merely an option in Game Options, those who want bodies turn it on, those who don't keep it off. In multiplayer is always off. In a cooperative it depends on the host's choice, the guest follows the host's option. In horde mode although I would like them on they should be kept off because it doesn't take long before a pile of bodies in the same place appears. It would also be fun to see your own dead body in cooperative mode.

 

It's all about giving the player choice and the game being as modable and costumizeable as possible. With the great bedrock that is Doom3 that will lead to an amazing costumizeable game built on a solid and fun foundation. In my experience, this is what a lot of successful yet not esports material games have done.

[Edward850]

19 hours ago, Akfiz said:

5. Add game option for dead bodies of enemies (incloding monsters) to remain on the ground -> There is something funny someone once told me "you can recognise an old school game by the bodies that remain on the ground after death, and you can recognise where on the map you are in an old school game by the bodies that remain on the ground after death", which is funny bue true. Also, having dead bodies of the enemies remain on the ground after death gives the game more immersion and it makes you remember the battle, especially when you're going backwards to pick up some health. This wasn't possible in 2004 due to lack of resources, but now I believe the modern computers have more than enough power to process bodies staying on the ground in a level.

Fun fact, this can actually soft lock the game. Dead bodies have collision, that's necessary for the ragdolls to work, however this will cause them to indiscriminately block any moving level entities such as doors and lifts. If they can't be moved out of the way, the entity can't proceed. This can block critical lifts and doors.

19 hours ago, Akfiz said:

6. Add Peer-to-Peer connection instead of dedicated servers -> Doom3 BFG edition was never meant to have its servers full like other multiplayer-focused game. It's mainly a singleplayer experience with a multiplayer mode next to it. As such, I believe it would be more beneficial to the playerbase and to the company if the servers would be hosted by the host player rather than the company.

So it's not Peer-to-Peer by the technical sense (it's actually client/server), but BFG edition already doesn't use dedicated servers. Games are player hosted.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Edward850

[Tactical Burger (Old acc)]

18 hours ago, Akfiz said:

I know Doom 3 BFG was released in 2012 but still. So far, Doom3 BFG is the best way to play the old school Doom3. However, outside the widescreen, improved graphic pack and new The Lost Missions campaign I expected a lot more. The graphics team did a great job, however the game's implementation seems a bit rough around the edges, with things like taking a screenshot with F12 locks you out of achievements, you are not warned of this until you are about to make an achievement, and you have to edit the game's files in order to get achievements again despite not using console. And some other things could have been exceuted better in my opinion. After playing a bit of Doom3 BFG edition, here are 10 improvements I would make to make Doom3 BFG edition more smooth:

 

I. General Overlay

 

1. Fix the F12 locked out of achievements bug -> Add game option whether you want to enable or disable console during a game. During load game, show in a text whether that save had console enabled or disabled (so you know whether you'll play a game with achievements enabled or disabled). During a game, if you activate console, have a little text above your health and armor bar say "achievements disabled" instead of a pop-up that shows right before you get an achievement.

 

2. Add separate volumes for game volume and players volume -> So that you can set a higher volume for other players that you talk with during the game. As it stands right now, lowering the game's volume automatically lowers the other players' microphone volumes as well.

 

3. Add a squared picture with a screenshot when looking at "load games" and in lobby for the selected map during multiplayer games -> Just like in the original Doom3, when you enterted "load game", a screenshot will show you the poster picture of the level for autosaves or a screenshot during the time of the save for manual saves or quicksaves. And in multiplayer lobbies, a screenshot will show you the map that you are about to play on. It's a easier for some people to remember places by pictures rather than names.

 

4. Add a prefix "Autosave: " for autosaves and "Quicksave: " for quicksaves in the saves -> For example in the first level, Mars City, an autosave woud look like "Autosave: Mars City", a quicksave would look like "Quicksave: Mars City" and a manual save would look like "Mars City". This coombined with the screenshots makes the management and recognition of different saves a lot easier for the player.

 

5. Add game option for dead bodies of enemies (incloding monsters) to remain on the ground -> There is something funny someone once told me "you can recognise an old school game by the bodies that remain on the ground after death, and you can recognise where on the map you are in an old school game by the bodies that remain on the ground after death", which is funny bue true. Also, having dead bodies of the enemies remain on the ground after death gives the game more immersion and it makes you remember the battle, especially when you're going backwards to pick up some health. This wasn't possible in 2004 due to lack of resources, but now I believe the modern computers have more than enough power to process bodies staying on the ground in a level.

 

II. Multiplayer

 

6. Add Peer-to-Peer connection instead of dedicated servers -> Doom3 BFG edition was never meant to have its servers full like other multiplayer-focused game. It's mainly a singleplayer experience with a multiplayer mode next to it. As such, I believe it would be more beneficial to the playerbase and to the company if the servers would be hosted by the host player rather than the company.

 

7. Add an ELO-based ranking system in the "leaderboards" instead of score with V/L and KDA -> This would make the multiplayer a lot more competitive than it currently is for those who wish to engage in such a thing. The first and most important line would be ELO, just like Chess (bad comparsion going from Doom to Chess, I know) your ELO is based on your position at the end of a game and the ELOs of the other players you played with, based on this you gain or lose ELO. The next in line beside this stat should be your win-lose ratio followed by your kill-death-assist ratio. The latter of which should be there only for the player's interest, those who don't will simply ignore the leaderboards.

 

8. Instead of "Create Private Match" and "Play with Friends" one should have "Create Casual Match" and "Join Casual Match" as opposed to "Quick Game" and "Find Game" which are for ranked games ->The "Join Casual Match" simply shows the list of all servers, just like in the old Doom3 and Doom3 ROE, and if a player wishes to play only with friends he can make the server private with a password, just like in the old Doom3. While "Create Casual Match" creates servers for this. This method is a lot more accessible for some players.

 

III. New Content

 

9. Cooperative Campaign -> A cooperative mode for the campaigns just like Doom3 had on the original Xbox and plenty of mods had on the PC version of Doom3. Another character model will be inserted in cutscenes (where the main character has no voice anyway so there's no need for extra recording) who will be player 2. If a player dies he will be respawned at the start of the level with only a pistol. To incentivize players not to die but also not fail the mission if they die. The first player to pick-up an item is the one who takes the item, so they need to manage this. Player 1 will have the artifacts in Doom 3 and Doom 3 ROE (where player 2 is another Marine from the squad that survived). While in TLM it's another Bravo Squad member that survived. Elevators and other important doors need to be activated by both players to work, the same is true for exit level buttons. When you click "cooperative" you have 3 options: "Splitscreen" (some people can do that), "Create Match" and "Join Match". In Create Match you can automatically invite a friend via Steam, make it a public match or make it a private match with password. You can start a new cooperative campaign or load a cooperative campaign (different from singleplayer load games; remember the loadout of both players), then you click "start" and the game begins. If someone disconnects during play, they should have the option to join back via hotjoin. Playing games especially campaigns cooperative with your friends is a lot more fun than playing alone and Doom3 seems like the game that would work well as a horror co-op.

 

10. Horde Mode -> Something that the newer Doom titles have and a lot of people love. If the cooperative mode has a maximum number of 2 players, and the multiplayer modes have a maximum number of 8 players, the horde mode has a maximum number of 4 players. The idea is very simple: you are in an Arena-based map, even greater if these maps are taken from already existing maps from the 3 campaigns. And waves of enemies come to kill you, the goal is to survive as many waves as possible. You get health kits, armor, ammo and weapons spawned after each new wave. The waves should have no limits and at some point simply replace enemies with stronger enemies and increase their number. Just like in multiplayer, the options should be: "Quick Game", "Find Game", "Create Casual Match", "Join Casual Match" and "Leaderboards". The difference between casual & ranked player, beside the leaderboards, is that in casual you can opt for not respawning health & ammo after a round, especially making the Horde Mode a sudden death mode and more hardcore, and you can select an option to activate the console commands, in case you want to mess around alone or with friends (if possible) on the horde maps. The "leaderboards" should track: waves survived, enemies killed/death, survival streak (meaning winning rounds where you yourself didn't die). It doesn't have to have a big roaster of maps, somewhere around 5 maps should be enough as the majority of players would play for the kills, but there should be one map with low light where the players have to use their lights.

 

The Cooperative and Horde Mode will be added in the main menu as following: Campaign, Cooperative, Horde Mode, Multiplayer, Settings, Credit, Quit.

 

Especially the last 2 additions will truly boost Doom3 BFGs value and offer a lot more replayability and fun with friends. That's it, I hoped you enjoyed my list, it's unlikely to happen but a man can still hope.

Fatser gameplay, lighter levels, less shotgun spread, super shotgun, more classic design on the  monsters, multiplayer and skipabble cutcenes

[Biz!]

1 hour ago, Womneare said:

Fatser gameplay, lighter levels, less shotgun spread, super shotgun, more classic design on the  monsters, multiplayer and skipabble cutcenes

It's made to be a more modern way and easy-to-port version of Doom 3, not Doom 3 for 90ists though.

[ApprihensivSoul]

I've suggested this in a few places, but merged mapspaces. So like, Alpha Labs as a single map, Delta Labs as a single map, etc, with more interconnections between them. Ideally you're still required to progress in the original fashion, but now with more shortcuts for backtracking, and, if maps are merged across campaigns (Enpro from LM attached to the original map, Delta Labs map including the areas from RoE,) more ways for you to get lost and directions to watch for enemies, since obviously going into the other campaign's sections would be dead ends.
 

I've always seen the Doom 3 marines as more human than the original Doomguy, and without his superpowers, so I thought that you could use the way the world is constructed to really delve into the survival tone with kind of a Resident Evil-Style story flow. 

Obviously that would be alot of work. Much simpler (perhaps) would be replacing all cutscenes with first-person scripted sequences ala Half-Life, since D3 already was trying to emulate that game's progression philosophy.

As far as the actual gameplay, I don't have any issues with the original flashlight, and despite my personal issues with the shotgun I wouldn't want to take away from the people who enjoyed those ideas in the original version, so I wouldn't change mechanics or anything like that, just the structure of the sandbox and the presentation of the horror.

[Akfiz]

12 hours ago, ApprihensivSoul said:

I've suggested this in a few places, but merged mapspaces. So like, Alpha Labs as a single map, Delta Labs as a single map, etc, with more interconnections between them. Ideally you're still required to progress in the original fashion, but now with more shortcuts for backtracking, and, if maps are merged across campaigns (Enpro from LM attached to the original map, Delta Labs map including the areas from RoE,) more ways for you to get lost and directions to watch for enemies, since obviously going into the other campaign's sections would be dead ends.
 

I've always seen the Doom 3 marines as more human than the original Doomguy, and without his superpowers, so I thought that you could use the way the world is constructed to really delve into the survival tone with kind of a Resident Evil-Style story flow. 

Obviously that would be alot of work. Much simpler (perhaps) would be replacing all cutscenes with first-person scripted sequences ala Half-Life, since D3 already was trying to emulate that game's progression philosophy.

As far as the actual gameplay, I don't have any issues with the original flashlight, and despite my personal issues with the shotgun I wouldn't want to take away from the people who enjoyed those ideas in the original version, so I wouldn't change mechanics or anything like that, just the structure of the sandbox and the presentation of the horror.

I wouldn't want to take away the core game mechanics either, I think that's what makes Doom3 unique among the rest of Doom games.

Where in all other Doom games the demons are trapped there with you, Doom3 is a horror fast-paced action game.

You're not a god, you're just a marine. And yes you can totally beat the demons, but generally, you're also supposed to be scared of them. They are meant to be a vaild threat, unlike Doom 2016 or Doom Eternal where you're the threat. Two different takes on the Doom series, I like both of them.

 

I don't think my suggestions essentially change the core game mechanics, but rather add around it:

1. Fix F12 locked out of achievements but -> I think this is universally agreed as an improvement.

2. Separate volumes for game and player voice -> Again, merely adding more functionality and options to the players.

3. Map screenshot for Load Game and Multiplayer Lobby maps -> Adding extra flavor that the original Doom3 already had.

4. Prefix for "Level:", "Autosave:", "Quicksave:" -> Merely makes the save games management easier.

5. Dead enemies remain on the ground -> Since some people argued this could lead to problems, I can see it done without this.

6. Peer to Peer connection -> Makes the game's multiplayer live forever.

7. MP leaderboards with ELO, Win-Lose, KDA -> Much more relevant than what we currently have in the leaderboards.

8. "Create Casual Match" and "Join Casual Match" -> Makes it more accessible for the average players.

9. Cooperative Campaign -> Out of all Doom games, Doom3 specifically would be priceless in a 2 players coop mode.

10. Horde Mode -> Something to keep the players who just want mindless killing engaged.

 

11. Plutonia Experiment and TNT Evolution of Doom2 as well -> For the full Doom2 experience.

12. A multiplayer for Doom1 and Doom2 -> Again, for the full experience.

13. Have a more user-friendly interface for users to add or switch mods -> With mods you can make everything out of a game.

14. Have the menu be something like: Campaign, Cooperative, Horde Mode, Multiplayer, Mods, Settings, Credit, Quit. -> Giving lots of tools to the player.

 

It's not about changing the core game mechanics. It's all about giving the player choice and the game being as modable and costumizeable as possible. I have seen plenty of game succeeding with this recipy of pure fun, replayability and modability. 

 

As far as the core game mechanics are concerned:

- Personally, I like that Doom3 BFG Edition just made a game a bit more fast-paced, the removed flashlight now replaced with a body armor flashlight that you don't have to worry about too much either certainly adds to that rushed and action-packed element of the game while still keeping it horror. But the people that say that this took away original Doom3's game mechanic of "light management" have a fair point.

- When it comes to the shotguns, I would have liked less pallets but also less spread, only so that the shotgun becomes more consistent. But again, since there are players who like the shotgun the way it is, and this is not something that you can make a Game Options to turn on and off, I'd rather not touch and and keep the base core game mechanics of Doom3.

- I liked the way final bosses were treated in the Xbox co-op mod, instead of just running around an killing demons to charge your artifact, you actually had to fight and kill the bosses. It was a lot more engaging, a lot more fun in my opinion. But again, I won't change it.

 

I really hope something like this would be done to turn Doom3 BFG Edition into a definitive edition of Doom3 that has everything you want and can hope for from Doom3 only to have a layer of easily modable things on top of it for the player who really wish to push it to the limit. Rather than just the mainly HD and widescreen version of Doom3. Sure, the The Lost Missions is great, but it doesn't feel like a complete overhaul or a definitive edition, something that allows you to squeeze everything you can out of the game.

[Eurisko]

Would love to see a bit of Co-op play ushered in somehow.

Also, as I've been playing this version a fair bit recently I'd also like to see the flashlight timer switched off or at least an option for it. It takes what? like 3-4 seconds to recharge tops? Is it even worth it? 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Eurisko

[Lippeth]

20 minutes ago, Eurisko said:

Would love to see a bit of Co-op play ushered in somehow.

Also, as I've been playing this version a fair bit recently I'd also like to see the flashlight timer switched off or at least an option for it. It takes what? like 3-4 seconds to recharge tops? Is it even worth it? 

 

I'm not sure how it works in stock BFG Edition, but with RBDoom3BFG you can set your autoexec.cfg to remove the flashlight meter.

Spoiler

set flashlight_batteryFlickerPercent "0"
set flashlight_minActivatePercent "0"
set flashlight_batteryChargeTimeMS "0"
set flashlight_batteryDrainTimeMS "0"

 

[Eurisko]

20 minutes ago, Lippeth said:

 

I'm not sure how it works in stock BFG Edition, but with RBDoom3BFG you can set your autoexec.cfg to remove the flashlight meter.

  Hide contents

set flashlight_batteryFlickerPercent "0"
set flashlight_minActivatePercent "0"
set flashlight_batteryChargeTimeMS "0"
set flashlight_batteryDrainTimeMS "0"

 

 

I play on console but this is definitely a cool thing to know. Nice. At least PC players can implement this at least. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Eurisko

[ApprihensivSoul]

Right, exactly. The biggest problem with Doom 3 is by no means the direction they went, but, in my opinion, missed potential caused by what felt like a failure by the designers to understand the concepts they were trying to emulate.

 

Doom 3 always felt like a mesh of System Shock 2 and Half Life, and incorporating more presentation aspects and exploration aspects would have let the atmosphere shine. Instead what we got was a rollercoaster, full of events but lacking in player engagement. And any tweaks to Doom 3 in a remake or the like should be fleshing out what it was trying to be, not changing it into a different Doom game.

 

Maybe lean keys would be a good idea too, on that note.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Akfiz said:

I wouldn't want to take away the core game mechanics either

[Major Arlene]

Coop and horde mode would both take away from the atmosphere of Doom 3, I feel. It's supposed to be an isolationary horror of some type, whether or not it plays like a Doom game aside. 

[ZeMystic]

15 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

Coop and horde mode would both take away from the atmosphere of Doom 3, I feel. It's supposed to be an isolationary horror of some type, whether or not it plays like a Doom game aside. 

 

You can half say the same thing about Quake, which just recently add it's horde mode.

 

I like the idea of Co-Op, it might ruin the horror feel, but it's fun to do things with friends.

Edited December 27, 2021 by ZeMystic

[Bridgeburner56]

There is only one change that  needs to be made to BFG edition.

 

Make it exactly the same as the original Doom 3.

 

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

[Akfiz]

On 12/23/2021 at 8:34 AM, Edward850 said:

Fun fact, this can actually soft lock the game. Dead bodies have collision, that's necessary for the ragdolls to work, however this will cause them to indiscriminately block any moving level entities such as doors and lifts. If they can't be moved out of the way, the entity can't proceed. This can block critical lifts and doors.

So it's not Peer-to-Peer by the technical sense (it's actually client/server), but BFG edition already doesn't use dedicated servers. Games are player hosted.

I found a BFG Edition mod where dead bodies don't despawn after being killed. It works, doesn't soft-lock the game and looks 10 times more realistic: 

 

The mere fact that "this body could rise up anytime" even if you know it's not true, scares you. As well as cycling back the level. Really adds to the horror element.

[Dubbag]

fix the Delta Labs 1 Elevator Glitch!

Edited January 5, 2022 by Dubbag

[Quasar]

Restore the vanilla levels for Resurrection of Evil and stop giving us the Tim Willits George-Lucased-Up version.

 

Also change Sarge and Swann back to their original skins. The new ones look fucking stupid.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Quasar

[Radial]

On 12/23/2021 at 2:32 PM, Akfiz said:

As for Doom3 itself, I have seen Perfected Doom3 mod, which in my opinion goes way too over the top and becomes way too silly for a horror game. It's just an overkill, adding too many new things some of which I dislike.

 

Perfected Doom 3 definitely seems (to me at least) to be the joke answer to the question "How do we improve Doom 3?"

On 12/23/2021 at 6:32 PM, Womneare said:

Fatser gameplay, lighter levels, less shotgun spread, super shotgun, more classic design on the  monsters, multiplayer and skipabble cutcenes

I agree with multiplayer and skippable cutscenes, but that's about it. If you want fast-placed gameplay like classic doom + old designs and SSG, why not just... play Doom 2? Doom 3 is meant to be a horror game and taking that away would make it far worse.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Radial

[whatup876]

To me, any good Doom 3 release would be one avoiding most of BFG edition's damage and that of later versions

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_3:_BFG_Edition#Differences_with_Doom_3

One feature i think could be good is a model viewer like in the new Doom games, because D3 is notorious for its more experimental art style and i think some enemy or weapon details can be omissed ingame.

I recall the Xbox version having a concept art video but an ingame gallery for art would be good.

 

If there ever is an expansion with new stuff, i think the enemy roster could benefit from new attacks (whether or not this means new monsters or just revamped ones) because i always thought most D3 enemies lacked more unique roles.

 

I wonder if anyone here suggested an option to use the alpha/beta sounds for the game.

[Bowsertime28]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:32 AM, Womneare said:

Fatser gameplay, lighter levels, less shotgun spread, super shotgun, more classic design on the  monsters, multiplayer and skipabble cutcenes

the ssg is in resurrection of evil (i think)

 

also skipabble cutscenes should have been since the start

[Agent Slacker]

Most of the changes I'd like to see to the BFG Edition would simply be removing all of the additional ammo (or having all of that ammo on lower difficulties), restoring content cut from the original game and its expansion, and an option to toggle between the shoulder mounted light and the classic flashlight. It's not much if I'm being honest.

[Akfiz]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:31 PM, Agent Slacker said:

Most of the changes I'd like to see to the BFG Edition would simply be removing all of the additional ammo (or having all of that ammo on lower difficulties), restoring content cut from the original game and its expansion, and an option to toggle between the shoulder mounted light and the classic flashlight. It's not much if I'm being honest.

Which content was cut from the original Doom3 and RoE ?

 

I haven't noticed any cut content, but I wish the game would stay true with the original, even in a co-op mode.

Co-op has been done before by the developers and we have mods that introduce co-op into Doom3:
- The removed the cutscenes & made sure that players have to wait when picking-up weapons in the Dungeon. Other than that, I don't subscribe to the "simplifed levels" idea, I would like a Doom3 co-op experience that is true to the original Doom3 experience, but each with their own preferences.

 

To summarize this topic this far: 
1. Fixing the F12 locked out of achievements bug.

2. Separate volumes for game volume and players volume.
3. A squared picture with a screenshot when looking at "load games" and in lobby for the selected map during multiplayer games.
4. A prefix "Autosave: " for autosaves and "Quicksave: " for quicksaves in the saves

5. A game option for dead bodies of enemies (incloding monsters) to remain on the ground (as shown in the mod above, it can be done).
6. Peer-to-Peer connection instead of dedicated servers (so the game can remain alive even after the servers are shut down)

7. ELO-based ranking system in the "leaderboards" instead of score with V/L and KDA. (ELO would be more fun and more accurate, you won't "level up" there just by grinding but by actually getting better, so it's a nice check for your improvement in multiplayer. In the leaderboards you will have your ELO followed by Win-Lose, followed by KDA)
8. For casual multiplayer games, instead of "Create Private Match" and "Play with Friends" one should have "Create Casual Match" and "Join Casual Match" while "Quick Game" and "Find Game" would remain for ranked games

9. Cooperative Campaign (I previously argued for 2 players to keep the horror element, but I think 4 players could be allright as well, after all it's giving the player more choices and option, you can choose whether you want to play in 2 or 4 players)
10. Horde Mode (Similary, this can be boosted up to 8 players just like the multiplayer. Each extra player would increase the number and qualitiy of enemies in each wave. If there's no hotjoin for Horde Mode, this can make the Horde mode even competitve and have a set dificulty depending on the starting number of players)
11. Add Plutonia Experiment and TNT Evolution for Doom2's campaigns. (so we can have the full experience)

12. Add Doom1 and Doom2 multiplayer as well - Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch, Capture the Flag, Cooperative (like ZDaemon, so we can have the full experience while still being user-friendly)
13. A select chapter option in campaign/co-op where you can select what chapter you want to play after you reached that level (I argued that there should be a 4th type of save - "Level: " - for each start of a new level, but rather than make a save for each new unlocked level, it's much smoother and user-friendly to simply add a "Select Chapter" option)

14. A main menu option for users to add or switch mods (With mods you can make everything out of a game and it's what kept many games alive. If I remember correctly, the old Doom3 had an in-game option for mods, where you can select either Vanilla or any installed mod)

15. With all these things considered, the main menu would look like this: Campaign, Cooperative, Horde Mode, Multiplayer, Mods, Settings, Credit, Quit. (Giving lots of tools to the player where they can experience everything Doom3 is about)

Optional/Personal Preference:

16. Gave both shotguns less pallets but also less spread, so their shooting would be more consistent.

17. Treat the final bosses like they were treated in the Xbox co-op version. Instead of just running around an killing demons to charge your artifact, you actually have to fight and kill the bosses. It's was a lot more engaging, a lot more fun in my opinion. It can even have a huge health bar.
18. In co-op mode only player 1 aka. the host aka. the protagonist would have/get the Soul Cube/Heart of Hell artifacts. This is to avoid spamming with it and keeping the co-op mod a bit realistic. Player 1 would be the protagonist while players 2-4 would be part of his squad.
* In Doom3's original campaign -> All 2-4 leave the plane when they reach Mars and the whole squad is called to Sergeant Kelly.
* In Doom3's Ressurection of Evil -> Up to 2-4 members of the protagonist's squad survive the intial blast of the Heart of Hell.
* In Doom3's The Lost Mission -> More than 1 Bravo Squad member survives the attack.
Since in-game characters usually call the protagonist "Marine" I don't think extra audio recordings are needed. Not to mention, since Player 1 is the leader of the squad, each in-game character (such as Sergeant Kelly) gives orders to the leader of the squad while the rest just follow orders.

 

With these changes I think Doom3 BFG Edition would truly become a definitive edition that has everything you want out of a Doom3 game plus more. And even Doom1 and Doom2.

The most important thing I think is that none of these changes would change Doom3's core gameplay mechanics. It doesn't change the fundamentals of the game, it merely adds on top of it. It's not about changing the core game mechanics. It's all about giving the player choice and the game being as modable and costumizeable as possible. I have seen plenty of game succeeding with this recipy of pure fun, replayability and modability. 

It's all about boosting Doom3 BFGs value and offer a lot more replayability and fun with friends.

I really hope something like this would be done to turn Doom3 BFG Edition into a definitive edition of Doom3 that has everything you want and can hope for from Doom3 only to have a layer of easily modable things on top of it for the player who really wish to push it to the limit. Rather than just the mainly HD and widescreen version of Doom3. Sure, the The Lost Missions is great, but it doesn't feel like a complete overhaul or a definitive edition, something that allows you to squeeze everything you can out of the game.

 

Some players may not like the "persistend bodies" option, but it can be merely an option in Game Options, those who want bodies turn it on, those who don't keep it off. In multiplayer is always off. In a cooperative it depends on the host's choice, the guest follows the host's option. In horde mode although I would like them on they should be kept off because it doesn't take long before a pile of bodies in the same place appears. It would also be fun to see your own dead body in cooperative mode.

 

It's all about giving the player choice and the game being as modable and costumizeable as possible. With the great bedrock that is Doom3 that will lead to an amazing costumizeable game built on a solid and fun foundation. In my experience, this is what a lot of successful yet not esports material games have done.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Akfiz

[Agent Slacker]

1 hour ago, Akfiz said:

Which content was cut from the original Doom3 and RoE ?

By cut content I mean the couple of rooms and enemies that were cut from the Hell levels, the arcade games from RoE, and the oxygen tanks during the sewer level in RoE. It's not much but they were details that were missing in BFG Edition.

[Akfiz]

On 2/13/2022 at 3:30 AM, Agent Slacker said:

By cut content I mean the couple of rooms and enemies that were cut from the Hell levels, the arcade games from RoE, and the oxygen tanks during the sewer level in RoE. It's not much but they were details that were missing in BFG Edition.

I agree with the Oxygen tanks from RoE, that's what really made that level. Other than that, I would have prefered them but it's not much.

 

I'm really thankful that Doom3 BFG Edition is a an all-in-one version of Doom, but I would have liked more functionality. At least a co-op mode and a horde mode for up to 4 players, to make the game a more social experience and add something on top of the old Doom3 in the same way ZDaemon did with Doom2, to get the "complete Doom experience".

[Lippeth]

One of the biggest changes I would make is to add the missing sound effects back in. The BFG Edition seems to only include the first five sounds in every shader that has more than five definitions. If I'm wrong about this then I'd like to understand, but this was my experience with it and what I found after several days of trying to get to the bottom of an issue I was having.

 

While messing around with RBDoom3BFG and porting all the sounds over from a Doom 3 mod I made to appease the most popular comment of "Is this compatible with BFG Edition?", I noticed that only a few of them were playing over and over, and not every sound I added was playing. I then noticed that s_maxSamples was set to 5 by default, meaning that a sound shader will only randomly play one of the first five defined sounds and ignore the rest. So I set it to 0 and all my added sound effects played as expected, but then nearly every other shader in the game was randomly silent, or played a beep when I had s_playDefaultSound enabled. I then used a .resource file extractor to see everything that was included, and saw that only the first five sounds for every shader was converted to .idwave, and so much work done for the original game is just omitted. They didn't even pick the five best sounds, just the first five alphanumerically! And to add insult to injury, they left all the sound definitions in tact for each shader, so instead of removing or commenting out each unwanted definition, it seems like they just said screw it and set s_maxSamples to 5. I don't want to call anyone lazy since I wasn't there when they made that decision, but I felt that if they couldn't be bothered to take a little time to do something so simple, I can't be bothered to play this version. And all this on top of poor widescreen implementation that simply lowers the fov, unskippable cutscenes, saving that interrupts gameplay, uncanny character models, cut game sections, removal of the zoom key, and more ammo than I know what to do with, why would I ever choose this version over the original? I get that it's sort of an all-in-one that includes Doom 1 and 2, but there are limitless options to play those as well.

[Akfiz]

I never noticed this, but you are not wrong.

 

In the BFG Edition, everything sounds a lot more sharp. In the original edition, everything sounded more stifled.

 

The only exception to this is the BFG. Maybe they thought the BFG is too noisy.

 

Quote

why would I ever choose this version over the original? I get that it's sort of an all-in-one that includes Doom 1 and 2, but there are limitless options to play those as well.

This is partially the reason I made this topic. Outside the widescreen, improved graphic pack and new The Lost Missions there's not much new in Doom3 BFG Edition. The game's implementation is a bit rough around the edges, a bit unpolished. Overall, I would say Doom3 BFG Edition is an improvement and a great all-in-one version, it's a solid remaster that adds good things, but it could have been so much more.

 

Take Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition for example, who is more than an all-in-one with better grahpics version of Age of Empires 2. What made it a good remastered is that:

- The update of AoE2DE, did not change/modify the core game mechanics.

- It has tried as much as possible to stay true to the original Age of Empires 2. The core game mechanics are the same. The devs realised the importance of that and didn’t touch that part of the game, it plays in 2021 exactly as it played in 1999. The only major differences are: better grahpics, better AI, more informative HUD and of course more civilizations.

 

In a similar style, Doom3 BFG Edition would have differenced itself with a few additions:

- A survival mode with more players (horde mode, with waves of enemies, you have to survive as long as possible) and to be able to play the campaign cooperatively in more players.

- There are Doom3 mods for that, Last Man Standing/Open-Coop, there are for BFG Edition as well, but it would have been better if they were included to the base game, it would have added to the game's replyability.

- Plutonia Experiment and TNT Evolution of Doom2 as well & a multiplayer for Doom1 and Doom2 (if we go for an all-in-one version let's make it fully all in one)

- All the multiplayer can be done with a peer-to-peer connection so that you don't have to keep id servers for Doom3 BFG Edition. It did wonders for Warhammer 40.000 Space Marine. Not only THQ didn't have to keep the servers up, but the game still works multiplayer after THQ filed for banckruptcy.
 

These alones would have changed the game significantly. In Doom1 & Doom2, you could have a multiplayer option in the menu with a game mode & create server / join server classic style. There are lots of ports that already do this. The game modes can be found on ZDaemon port. In Doom2 for Plutonia and TNT, when you go singleplayer you could pick your chapter just like in Doom1: Hell on Earth (original), No Rest for the Living, Plutonia Experiment, TNT Evilution. In Doom3 menu you currently have: Campaign, Multiplayer, Settings, Credits, Quit. You could simply have it added there: Campaign, Cooperative, Survival, Multiplayer, Setthings, Credits, Quit. There is space on the screen for all 7.

 

After you finish everything in game, you could always go for Survival mode and try to survive for as long as possible in one of the various maps. Or do so with a few friends. Or play the campaign with a few friends that don't know the game. It's not about changing the core game mechanics. It's all about giving the player choice and the game being as playable as possible, the more things you can do in the game the better.