16 Rotations

[Oday]

Hey my bro doomplayers,

How's the winter going for you? Hope everyone's cozy.

Could you please show me where can I find 16 Rotations for all the sprites. By all, I mean all of the original, "Doom" & "Doom2" sprites. If not, why on mars a game this popular never had the chance to get all of its sprites updated to 16 rotations.

I would like to see if my nice, "DoomWorld" community can make this happen for the tribute to the, "DOOM" we know, for the people who .WAD too much, and for the sake of avoiding the embarrassment that the game is about to hit 30 years without a few rotations to its sprites.

I do know the pain and agony of pixel art rotations but there has to be something to the past 20 years, right?

What a shame :)

Regards,
Odai

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Oday

[Mr Masker]

1 hour ago, Oday said:

I would like to see if my nice, "DoomWorld" community can make this happen for the tribute to the, "DOOM" we know, for the people who .WAD too much, and for the sake of avoiding the embarrassment that the game is about to hit 30 years without a few rotations to its sprites.

I do know the pain and agony of pixel art rotations but there has to be something to the past 20 years, right?

I don't mean to be rude but do you ussualy type like this?

[Kan3]

41 minutes ago, Mr Masker said:

I don't mean to be rude but do you ussualy type like this?

Mmh... Google translate is not doing great this winter x))

 

2 hours ago, Oday said:

Could you please show me where can I find 16 Rotations for all the sprites. By all, I mean all of the original, "Doom" & "Doom2" sprites. If not, why on mars a game this popular never had the chance to get all of its sprites updated to 16 rotations.

About you're question (supposing you meant "where can I find vanilla monsters sprites with 16 rotation's frames instead of 8"), I don't think someone managed to do that yet.

But I found this THREAD

[Oday]

1 hour ago, Mr Masker said:

I don't mean to be rude but do you ussualy type like this?

lol nothing is wrong here xd

 

[Oday]

21 minutes ago, Kan3 said:

Mmh... Google translate is not doing great this winter x))

 

About you're question (supposing you meant "where can I find vanilla monsters sprites with 16 rotation's frames instead of 8"), I don't think someone managed to do that yet.

But I found this THREAD

What a shame.

[ebrl]

1 hour ago, Mr Masker said:

I don't mean to be rude but do you ussualy type like this?

The last time I saw someone typing remotely like that, it got 70+ likes and people wanted the thread pinned. It happened less than a week ago, shouldn't be hard to find....

[Mr Masker]

41 minutes ago, ebrl said:

The last time I saw someone typing remotely like that, it got 70+ likes and people wanted the thread pinned. It happened less than a week ago, shouldn't be hard to find....

I assume you're talking about the mapping advice thread? Because that one I can tell is semi humourous, while still giving advice. If that is what this guy was going for then that's fine.

[Morpheus666]

Ok first thing you need to do is draw the missing frames, secondly you would need to know how to program Decorate or something like it to replace all the enemies to use these new sprite rotations, and after all that stressful and tedious work, make a video and never release the wad for it lol.

 

I'm Kidding on that last part, don't do that. But you can see why it's never been attempted before, it's a long, boring, and tedious job no one is willing to do because they could be doing a million and one other things then a mod that adds virtually nothing to the base games, and if your talking about doing this for EVERY MONSTER in both Doom 1 AND 2, it probably would take years to do that.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Morpheus666

[Obsidian]

1 hour ago, ebrl said:

The last time I saw someone typing remotely like that, it got 70+ likes and people wanted the thread pinned. It happened less than a week ago, shouldn't be hard to find....

 

It was also a thread made by a well-respected community member that had some genuinely valuable advice, so there's also that.

[Oday]

1 hour ago, Mr Masker said:

I assume you're talking about the mapping advice thread? Because that one I can tell is semi humourous, while still giving advice. If that is what this guy was going for then that's fine.

You know I'm not giving any advice here. More like, look at this almost 30 years old game without 16 rotations update to its original sprites that has all of these nice people including yourself and the community. What's with the typing issue in this thread? Do you have problems reading simple lines that sound like questions? Or is it the layout?

Edited December 29, 2021 by Oday

[Oday]

1 hour ago, Morpheus666 said:

Ok first thing you need to do is draw the missing frames, secondly you would need to know how to program Decorate or something like it to replace all the enemies to use these new sprite rotations, and after all that stressful and tedious work, make a video and never release the wad for it lol.

 

I'm Kidding on that last part, don't do that. But you can see why it's never been attempted before, it's a long, boring, and tedious job no one is willing to do because they could be doing a million and one other things then a mod that adds virtually nothing to the base games, and if your talking about doing this for EVERY MONSTER in both Doom 1 AND 2, it probably would take years to do that.

Don't worry about me making sprites and "prgramming" decorates. I have my fair share somewhere.

Doom 2 only has a few more sprites than Doom 1. Why would it "probably" take years to do that? Do you even see the gigantic communities playing and editing doom?
*ehm* almost 30 years and still no 16 rotations for the original doom sprites.

[Dark Pulse]

6 hours ago, Oday said:

Hey my bro doomplayers,

How's the winter going for you? Hope everyone's cozy.

Could you please show me where can I find 16 Rotations for all the sprites. By all, I mean all of the original, "Doom" & "Doom2" sprites. If not, why on mars a game this popular never had the chance to get all of its sprites updated to 16 rotations.

I would like to see if my nice, "DoomWorld" community can make this happen for the tribute to the, "DOOM" we know, for the people who .WAD too much, and for the sake of avoiding the embarrassment that the game is about to hit 30 years without a few rotations to its sprites.

I do know the pain and agony of pixel art rotations but there has to be something to the past 20 years, right?

Regards,
Odai

Doom never got them because Doom was never designed for them. The original engines only had eight directions of rotation, and in reality, three of those directions were mirrored. Sprites were made for those (Romero actually put them out in one of his dumps of content), but they were cut to reduce RAM usage.

 

16 rotations, however, was very much a ZDoom thing. And well... nobody has simply stepped up to redraw them, so that's why they're not there.

 

Feel free to give it a crack if you got the talent. Otherwise, about all you can do is ask nicely and wait for someone to do it.

 

Stay fresh, cheese bags,

Dark Pulse

Edited December 29, 2021 by Dark Pulse
Somehow I went into Markdown mode.

[Oday]

21 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

Doom never got them because Doom was never designed for them. The original engines only had eight directions of rotation, and in reality, three of those directions were mirrored. Sprites _were_ made for those (Romero actually put them out in one of his dumps of content), but they were cut to reduce RAM usage.

 

16 rotations, however, was very much a ZDoom thing. And well... nobody has simply stepped up to redraw them, so that's why they're not there.

 

Feel free to give it a crack if you got the talent. Otherwise, about all you can do is ask nicely and wait for someone to do it.

 

Stay fresh, cheese bags,

Dark Pulse

Mr. Dark Pulse

I do understand that the 16 rotations are not implemented in the vanilla doom. ZDoom is pretty much known to a lot of people trying to play or check on the vanilla doom, but the topic is clear on what I'm pointing out here. Seriously, all of these years and there's no 16 rotations for the original doom sprites? I would definitely give it a try to redraw them.

For when you were telling otherwise ask nicely? Did I offend you or was this topic kind of rude to you? 

Regards,
Oday

[phoo]

20 minutes ago, Oday said:

All of these years and there's no 16 rotations for the original doom sprites? I would definitely give it a try to redraw them.

Well, maybe someone out there made some, but I haven't seen any.

I mean, it's not like 16 rotations are necessary or anything (although it would be cool), the monsters look fine as they are with 8 rotations. That's probably why most folks don't have too much interest in making all 16 rotations, not to mention that it would be long and tedious to do. 

Best of luck if you decide to draw them yourself!

[Major Arlene]

1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

Feel free to give it a crack if you got the talent. Otherwise, about all you can do is ask nicely and wait for someone to do it.

repeating this advice for the sake of clarity and sanity of everyone on this thread.
 

[Oday]

5 minutes ago, phoo said:

Well, maybe someone out there made some, but I haven't seen any.

I mean, it's not like 16 rotations are necessary or anything (although it would be cool), the monsters look fine as they are with 8 rotations. That's probably why most folks don't have too much interest in making all 16 rotations, not to mention that it would be long and tedious to do. 

Best of luck if you decide to draw them yourself!

Maybe.

It is cool and even cooler to look at. I've had seen people make and edit so many things in doom's graphics, Its crazy how it didn't come across anyone all of these years. Although, I did see posts about item rotations and they were also 8 rotations.

Thank you,
Almost done with a Lost Soul's sprite but I'm not going for this alone.

[Oday]

4 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

repeating this advice for the sake of clarity and sanity of everyone on this thread.
 

Thank you major but I'm completely sane and doing fine. 30 years without a vanilla upgrade is where I'm losing it.

[Maribo]

I really can't tell if you're being serious or not, but the way you're phrasing these posts lies in some strange uncanny valley between "translation error" and "soft trolling". The reason you're getting responses like this is probably because of the OP, which reads like it has some weird emphasis on DoomWorld's competency? And this repeated emphasis on it being "embarrassing" or something that no one has done it? And this isn't even including the fact that you edited the OP afterwards with a shitpost version of the original phrasing.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Maribo

[Oday]

Just now, Maribo said:

I really can't tell if you're being serious or not, but the way you're phrasing these posts lies in some strange uncanny valley between "translation error" and "soft trolling". The reason you're getting responses like this is probably because reading the OP, which reads like it has some weird emphasis on DoomWorld's competency? And this repeated emphasis on it being "embarrassing" or something that no one has done it? And this isn't even including the fact that you edited the OP afterwards with a shitpost version of the original phrasing.

A tease wouldn't really hurt when I'm saying embarrassing or a shame for a 30 years old game not having Its sprites upgraded to 16 rotations from 8 rotations. Regarding the second rephrase, the first two replies were clearly about the way I typed this topic so I made it. Please do point out where the, "translation error" or even the "soft trolling" part on it that made this topic not understandable or knowledgeable. I'm taking my time on this until people start talking 16 rotations sprites instead of this.

[Gregor]

I mean, i would definitely like a mod that upgrades Doom's monster sprites to 16 rotations. Something similar in effect to SmoothDoom. It would probably make more sense to first do it for only one monster though, say, the shotgunner, as a proof of concept. Then post a video showing the results. If it really feels like a big improvement, then maybe more people would jump on board and help out.

 

[printz]

Forget the 16 rotations part. You know what's really embarassing? That we don't have good enough 3D model drop-in replacements for the sprites! You'd think that after 28 years someone figured out how to reconstruct accurate 3D models from the 8 renderings per frame! Yet how I see it now: nobody records their Doom session with 3D models, and those which were made for JDoom are derided.

[Oday]

18 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I mean, i would definitely like a mod that upgrades Doom's monster sprites to 16 rotations. Something similar in effect to SmoothDoom. It would probably make more sense to first do it for only one monster though, say, the shotgunner, as a proof of concept. Then post a video showing the results. If it really feels like a big improvement, then maybe more people would jump on board and help out.

 

Proof of concept? The internet has dozens and you've already seen SmoothDoom, you know what I'm talking about. Especially on an actual cartoonic pixel art's sprite with a limited color palette rather than a semi-realistic coloring like the, "Doom 3's" 16 rotations sprites based on a their actual 3D models. There's this Lost Soul with almost 12 rotations that I haven't finished yet, but this is not the case. I'm still emphasizing on the fact that the game is almost 30 years old without those 16 rotations sprites.

[Oday]

30 minutes ago, printz said:

Forget the 16 rotations part. You know what's really embarassing? That we don't have good enough 3D model drop-in replacements for the sprites! You'd think that after 28 years someone figured out how to reconstruct accurate 3D models from the 8 renderings per frame! Yet how I see it now: nobody records their Doom session with 3D models, and those which were made for JDoom are derided.

 

@printz, I wish that you can see the struggle that I'm having here in this topic where I keep bringing this 16 rotations craze but every single time it gets lost somewhere. I know exactly how you feel about JDoom and its impossible for someone to make accurate 3D models off of heavily modified 2D sprites with limited color palettes. Yes, you're right. Only with the real toy/clay miniatures they can base their 3D models, but this is not the case. 30 years without 16 rotations upgrade to the vanilla sprites is the case here. All we need is a pixel artist, I do fiddle with this stuff but I don't really call myself one.

[DannyMan]

I wonder if it's even possible to create new 16 rotation sprites close to the original for doom 1 and 2 enemies.

[Oday]

2 minutes ago, DannyMan said:

I wonder if it's even possible to create new 16 rotation sprites close to the original for doom 1 and 2 enemies.

Yes, Its possible. As you can see, I've had so many communication attempts about this 16 rotations vanilla sprites in this topic and you're the closest I can ever get to. Therefore, could you tell me why did you think about the possibility of making new sprites with 16 rotations rather than just upgrading the original vanilla sprites? Which happened to take less time and they look as good as they are with their originality.

[Obsidian]

The best I can recommend is Beautiful Doom or Smooth Doom: if you can't find 16-sprite rotations there, then you likely won't find them anywhere else.

[Oday]

16 minutes ago, Obsidian said:

The best I can recommend is Beautiful Doom or Smooth Doom: if you can't find 16-sprite rotations there, then you likely won't find them anywhere else.

Thank you.

[Doomkid]

Hey @Nootrac4571, isn't your avatar 16 rotation frames? Did you ever do any of the other monsters? I can think of at least one person highly interested!

[Mayomancer]

If a good quality 16 rotation sprite pack doesn't exist it means the community doesn't hold that feature valuable, because as you said there was plenty of time for it to be developed if it was an obvious upgrade to the game, so you should not hold it to your own standards. You're presenting yourself in a very condescending way.

 

There are better ways to prompt a project of this scale than to say it's a "shame" it hasn't been done yet.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Mayomancer

[Oday]

27 minutes ago, Mayomancer said:

If a good quality 16 rotation sprite pack doesn't exist it means the community doesn't hold that feature valuable, because as you said there was plenty of time for it to be developed if it was an obvious upgrade to the game, so you should not hold it to your own standards. You're presenting yourself in a very condescending way.

 

There are better ways to prompt a project of this scale than to say it's a "shame" it hasn't been done yet.

 

 

 

The way I see it, people are making rotations of other things such as the item rotations, new sprites rotations, and sprites improvements. This Doom's graphics enhancement is a, "Literal" thing which makes it more valuable than you might think. My own personal standards doesn't hide the fact that Its a shame for a 30 years old game with this huge community never having the attention for Its poor little sprites rotations. I do not care about presenting myself when I speak facts dear, @Mayomancer. As long as I'm very clear on what I type here on the forum, I'll be just fine with what you call, "condescending".

By the way, I'm doing more of opening eyes for the 16 rotations vanilla sprites than prompting a project that doesn't exist. If someone wanted to start something, I'll try to support them. Other than that, what a shame :)