I'm smart and then I'm not!!

[Chipper35]

UDB.......making 3D floors.......one moment, I am THE MAN!!! Next moment: I'm clueless!!!!

 

So.......OK........the dummy sector(s)........do I need to create a tag that links my two sectors together? (the dummy sector and the floor I want to be 3D).................Just 1 room with 1 3D floor in the middle of it.....no big deal. Do I just  make up a number for the tag.....or is a tag worthless? 

 

So, I changed the 'top' texture of my small elevated floor, then THE ENTIRE  CEILING of that room changed to that texture!!!!!  I have to start taking notes as I work. This is supposed to be fun, not frustrating.

 

 

[smeghammer]

1 hour ago, Chipper35 said:

do I need to create a tag that links my two sectors together? (the dummy sector and the floor I want to be 3D)

 

Indeedy yes.

 

Add the tag to the sector above which you want the 3D floor to appear, and set the sector ID that the control sector linedef uses to be the sector ID you chose. Make sure the sector tag is not used elsewhere (and also not zero...) so you only get a 3D floor above the floor of the sector you expect.

 

1 hour ago, Chipper35 said:

So, I changed the 'top' texture of my small elevated floor, then THE ENTIRE  CEILING of that room changed to that texture!!!!!

 

Do you mean the ceiling flat? You need to change the ceiling (and/or floor) flat in the control sector. Then you should see the upper or lower 'texture' of the 3D floor change.

 

Don't forget, the control sector FLOOR controls the ceiling (the underside) of the projected floor and the control sector CEILING controls the floor (the topside) of the projected 3D floor.

 

My tests when I was learning this shit might be useful...

 

Oh, and on the offchance you haven't got to here, this is very useful:

 

https://zdoom.org/wiki/Sector_Set3dFloor

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by smeghammer

[Chipper35]

Y'know.......I know I'm asking for a lot......I know I am.......but I swear to God: I get it then suddenly my brain falls off a cliff and I totally DON'T understand anymore.

 

Can you TYPE OUT THE STEPS for the following to happen:

 

1. Make a room.

2. Make a rectangular sector in that room.

3. Make that sector act like a 3D floor.

4. Make that 'floor' become slightly elevated off the main floor.

5. The ceiling above that floor and the LARGER ceiling of that room don't move unless I  want them to.

 

I literally 'have it' on Wednesday, then it just goes away on Thursday. I just DO NOT GET IT. I don't give a damn about textures.....I just want a floating floor (platform) above the floor; That's all I want. I have made it happen 'accidentally' a  few times, declared myself an expert, and then freaking CANNOT make it happen  26 hours later. It involves tags and a dummy sector and a big green square...................................................................................................... and rolling my mouse wheel, OR NOT ROLLING MY MOUSE WHEEL. I dunno......I may just give up. If I have to listen to another breathy, slow-speaking European-accented guy on a video one more time, I'm going to throw myself into a demon pit.

[Chipper35]

Now that I'm past my mini-episode........I'm 57% sure I've figured things out! Essentially: I was creating a dummy sector AND 3D mode was creating ANOTHER dummy sector. Mentally, using 3D mode requires you to essentially think of that 3D floor as (sort of) a 3D room inside of another room.......with its own distinct characteristics. The dummy sector created inside the large green square is then (sort of) the Voodoo doll that controls (sort of) the 3D room.

[Kan3]

On 12/31/2021 at 2:37 AM, Chipper35 said:

Can you TYPE OUT THE STEPS for the following to happen:

 

Don't worry, it still happens to me to forget or miss how things work sometimes in the editor x)

Dunno if you already solved it, anyhow, there are 2 ways to do it (in UDB):

 

1. You create your room with your sector inside of it
2. You give that sector a tag
3. You create (preferably outside the map itself) another sector (no matter the shape, no matter how big, I usually make 32x32x45 triangle)
4. You select 1 line of this "dummy sector" outside the map and give it the Sector_Set3dFloor special
5. In this special arguments you have to set: tag (will be the "normal" sector tag), type, flags and alpha value (usually, for a solid 3d sector, you can just go: tag, 1, 0, 255.)
6. Now that the 3d sector has been created, you can adjust its height etc. just by raising the ceiling of the dummy sector (that will represent the top of the 3d floor) or lowering the floor, or both to move it up or down, you can change ceiling and floor texture etc.

For the other way instead:

1. Press the 3d Floor Mode button on the left (move the green square outside the map, in a pace where you're sure you won't build later), then right-click on the sector you want it to be a 3d sector.
2. It will open up a window: press "Add 3D Floor".
3. Now you can adjust your 3d sector: the values near top and bottom represent the position (in map units) of the top and the bottom of the 3d sector, while the border value shows you the actual 3d sector border height.
4. Select again your type, flags, alpha and textures and you're done.

Note: You can edit your 3d sectors whenever you want to with the 3d Floor Mode, otherwise you can simply find the dummy sector that has been created automatically (it will be created inside the green square), click on the line with Sector_Set3dFloor special and edit it from there.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Kan3

[smeghammer]

6 hours ago, Kan3 said:

• You create your room with your sector inside of it
• You give that sector a tag
• You create (preferably outside the map itself) another sector (no matter the shape, no matter how big, I usually make 32x32x45 triangle)
• You select 1 line of this "dummy sector" outside the map and give it the Sector_Set3dFloor special
• In this special arguments you have to set: tag (will be the "normal" sector tag), type, flags and alpha value (usually, for a solid 3d sector, you can just go: tag, 1, 0, 0.)
• Now that the 3d sector has been created, you can adjust its height etc. just by raising the ceiling of the dummy sector (that will represent the top of the 3d floor) or lowering the floor, or both to move it up or down, you can change ceiling and floor texture etc.

 

This method applies to any editor, so probably useful to figure out how this way works. Take care, the opacity (4th argument) needs to be 255 for fully opaque. Lower values will be translucent.

 

The 3D floor mode creates the same kind of association between control and map sector, but with a workflow specific to UDB.

[Chipper35]

Good help! Why the heck are there two places inside a dialogue box where you set a 'Tag'.....the middle and the bottom.......that is confusing to me.

 

I am leaning toward the 3D Floor Mode inside UDB. While not perfect, it (seemingly) removes a few steps. 

 

This has been good help......and I like that little  window that  pops up for the 3D mode stuff....that helps me a lot. I understand what parameters/arguments are and I see the little blocks/sections inside the dialogue box for that  stuff....sure, fine. 

9 hours ago, Kan3 said:

 

Don't worry, it still happens to me to forget or miss how things work sometimes in the editor x)

Dunno if you already solved it, anyhow, there are 2 ways to do it (in UDB):

1. You select 1 line of this "dummy sector" outside the map and give it the Sector_Set3dFloor special
2. In this special arguments you have to set: tag (will be the "normal" sector tag), type, flags and alpha value (usually, for a solid 3d sector, you can just go: tag, 1, 0, 0, 0.

 

 

 

If I am NOT using UDB's 3D Floor tool........how the heck does one do the Sector_Set3dFloor special? I've read the stuff at ZDoom wiki and that helps, it does......but where does one type in such parameters?  ......and why the hell do the monsters fall through my floor? I want them to walk on it.

 

UDB is fantastic, don't misunderstand, and I PROFOUNDLY appreciate the help offered here..........but I just don't understand why it is SO DIFFICULT (inside of UDB) to figure out how to do this kind of stuff by oneself. I think I need to take a break from this stuff. And (it's totally my fault, honestly) the You might try this, don't forget about this, but you can also consider this, take a look at this stuff I did a while back is almost making it worse. Most of the time, when people are true experts at things, it can be hard for them to talk to beginners.....I get it. I need to back away for a while. It just isn't fun and it is supposed to be.

 

Actually: maybe it would help if I studied up on assigning tags to sectors. Hell: that is pretty simple stuff and I only understand 42% of how that shit operates anyway.

[Kan3]

13 hours ago, smeghammer said:

 

This method applies to any editor, so probably useful to figure out how this way works. Take care, the opacity (4th argument) needs to be 255 for fully opaque. Lower values will be translucent.

Dammit! You're right, oversight, I'll edit the comment so it's less confusing.

 

11 hours ago, Chipper35 said:

Why the heck are there two places inside a dialogue box where you set a 'Tag'.....the middle and the bottom.......that is confusing to me.

Cause the bottom one is always for the stuff (line, sector, thing) that you selected, never to be confused with line's specials arguments.

 

11 hours ago, Chipper35 said:

how the heck does one do the Sector_Set3dFloor special? 

For special we mean action, so just type 160 in the action box or just search for it in the nearby tab.

Spoiler

and there you set your parameters .

 

Quote

why the hell do the monsters fall through my floor?

That's weird if you set it to be solid properly, can you provide an example?

[smeghammer]

12 hours ago, Chipper35 said:

and why the hell do the monsters fall through my floor? 

Are you placing them so the map starts with them ON the 3D floor? Things subject to gravity will fall through a 3D floor on map start.. They will be able to walk ONTO the floor just fine. If you need them to start on the floor you will need an instantly lowering normal platform underneath to prevent this.

[SMG_Man]

9 hours ago, smeghammer said:

Things subject to gravity will fall through a 3D floor on map start..

 

...I have never seen this happen before. Which port, and what map format does this occur in?

[smeghammer]

47 minutes ago, SMG_Man said:

 

...I have never seen this happen before. Which port, and what map format does this occur in?

 

DiHF and GZDoom 4.4. Occurs for both .WAD and .PK3.

 

It's inconsistent, but reproducible. Here, a 3D floor with the player and a rifleman on the 3D floor. Rifleman is supported, player is NOT. I have had to do instantly lowering floors to support monsters that otherwise would have fallen through 3D floor several times. See the arachnotron in the middle of the nukage area in this unfinished map for an example - load the uncompiled root if you want to test it.

[SMG_Man]

14 minutes ago, smeghammer said:

Rifleman is supported, player is NOT.

 

All right, so here I can tell you exactly what's happening: player starts do not support a Z-coordinate, nor do the regular Teleport Destination things. To start a player on a 3D floor, yeah; you have to have a little pillar below them. For monsters though, this shouldn't be the case. I tried looking through that PK3, but none of the levels seemed to have an "arachnotron in the middle of [a] nukage area" that you mentioned, so I can't tell what's going on there.

[smeghammer]

Ahhhh!. You are right. It is the difference between player vs monsters, and the teledest/teledest-no-gravity thing. I just went back over older maps and it seems to be consistent that it is either the player start or a normal teleport destination (with Z-indexes) that fall.

 

It is PK3/root/maps/map15.wad btw.