At what point is using copyrighted music in your map a concern?

[s1zzlorr]

the question is in the context of getting a DMCA or something, not as in the morality of copyright infringement - that's a whole other topic. how close do y'all reckon you can get to the edge of just straight up putting a downloaded mp3 in your wad? does it depend on whose music you're using for your wad (as in using a mainstream record label release vs. music from an indie game)? are all popular songs safe to use as long as they're midi recreations? do doom wads even get dmca'd for using unchanged copyrighted stuff in them? i haven't really heard much of it, but you could argue it's just cause most doomers play it safe and stick to midis. idk, i think this isn't talked about too much and it could be interesting :P

 

(also for hypotheticals, we'll assume that credit is always given)

[Dusty_Rhodes]

I've never heard of a wad getting axed for having copyrighted music. And I think copyrighted music is banned from idgames, but there was a wad by Eternal with a Johnny Cash song in the menu. I know midi versions of songs are technically "illegal" but it's unenforceable and not something to worry about. Laws do not equal morality, you aren't a bad person for using a Led Zeppelin midi in a wad lol.  

[gwain]

Its not very inforced and the mainstream only knows sussy amoungdoom so there isnt really any media company that is willing to take it that far

 

[Wavy]

I remember a thread with the mapset's download link being removed due to it using straight copyrighted MP3 files. It was locked shortly thereafter. So moral of the story: It's probably best not to use copyrighted MP3's within your maps.

 

As for MIDI's though, that seems to be completely fine legally speaking. WAD's that are decades old use MIDI's of popular metal music, and even newer WAD's do the same thing as well. Hell, it's quite well known that Bobby Prince himself even copied several motifs from metal/rock bands.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Wavy

[Astronomical]

35 minutes ago, s1zzlorr said:

the morality of copyright infringement

 

22 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

Laws do not equal morality

I personally don't care about copyright infringement in most cases as we tend to do it everyday.  Most Gifs are technically copyright infringement.  Copyright law is a monopoly, ownership was an idea that made sense when there was a physical limit on the ability to copy things.  The way we pay for and consume art will change, and platforms like Patron will be the future for non-physical goods.  NFT's are a very reactionary view of ownership in the digital era, Instead of embracing the ability for art to be consumed by all, it tries to allow for people to own art like owning a painting, however while you get a physical good from buying a painting, NFT's don't provide that and are just stupid, and modern copyright infringement is the reaction to that.

 

37 minutes ago, s1zzlorr said:

how close do y'all reckon you can get to the edge of just straight up putting a downloaded mp3 in your wad?

Depends on the artist, Eternal used music from American McGee's Alice in hell ground, and if Dusty is correct above he also used a Johnny Cash song.

 

39 minutes ago, s1zzlorr said:

are all popular songs safe to use as long as they're midi recreations?

Generally yes.  This president was set by the Dwango wads.  Maybe not strictly legal, but I'll let you know if I get sued for using Nine Inch nails music in some of my wads.

42 minutes ago, s1zzlorr said:

do doom wads even get dmca'd for using unchanged copyrighted stuff in them?

Even Simpsons doom, considered too unsafe for idgames hasn't has any legal issues. 

 

53 minutes ago, s1zzlorr said:

but you could argue it's just cause most doomers play it safe and stick to midis

I also Believe that it's because doomworld, and Idgames play it safe as well, if idgames goes down, while we have other archives, nothing compares other than wad archive, but I've had issues with wad archive.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

1 hour ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

I've never heard of a wad getting axed for having copyrighted music.

DOOM: Rampage Edition

 

In general, as long as you aren't a dick about using the music, nobody cares. Don't start map01 with EnterSandman.mp3 and you'll be fine. If everyone can instantly identify that you're using stolen music, then it becomes a problem and you'll be taken out back and swiftly executed.

 

But if we're being real, you could use an mp3 of an ambient track from a game or movie or whatever, and get away with it like a smooth professional because we'll all sit around pretending like we have no idea where you got it from when the feds pull up.

🙊🙈🙉

 

People listen to whatever music they want on Youtube or wherever else, regardless of legality. It's just the way things work. As long as you aren't profiting off of someone else's music, no harm done. The worst case scenario is you might expose someone to a new artist they like (and might spend money on).

 

My order of importance when it comes to art:

 

What is morally responsible>>>>the quality of the art itself>>>>>>>>>>>legal technicalities nobody cares about

 

A bigger problem for me is members using music made by other members and not giving them credit. That's a moral violation, which angers me more than a legal violation (though it can be both).

Edited January 10, 2022 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[Steve D]

An important issue with using copyrighted music in mp3 format is that Twitch will IIRC silence any livestream with such material. This is a PITA for streamers and their audience. I think it's ridiculous, but that's the way it is. I personally plan to release normal mapsets with midis or tracker modules for general consumption, along with MP3 Editions that I'll park in my Mediafire, and with suitable warnings to streamers.

[s1zzlorr]

yeah, that's a good point! there's also youtube's automated content ID system, which is notoriously unforgiving especially when it comes to large record label music claims - "melody claims" exist and i can see that being used against even midis :/ (though i haven't heard of it happening before)

[GratefulDeadInside]

29 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Don't start map01 with EnterSandman.mp3 

Remember, WAD Authors, if you use a Metallica midi in your map, always check for Lars Ulrich under your bed before sleeping.

[Biodegradable]

Like all things to do with copyrighted material, it's best to err on the side of caution and not use stuff you don't have permission to use/didn't pay a licence for. While the likelihood of your Doom WAD getting slapped by the RIAA is highly unlikely, there's the issues it can cause for others via YouTube and Twitch that have been mentioned that can hurt its chances to be spotlighted to a wider audience. Also, there's already a heap of resources for you to use in terms of music for your WAD. The community has a plethora of active musicians who have a provided huge depositories of MIDI tracks you can use and you could always ask one of them/pay them to make some tunes for you.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Biodegradable

[Bridgeburner56]

Depends on what you're worried about. Even a midi of a commercial song will result in a video on YouTube being demonitised, or even blocked. Could potentially result in a DMCA strike on Twitch as well, but that is less likely. Putting full commercial mp3s will get your maps blocked on id games, and generally yelled at by the community.
Will you actually get sued? Highly unlikely. But as @Biodegradable pointed out, there are a myriad of public, free and awesome midis made by the talented as fuck composers in the doom community. More songs than you could use in 10 life times of mapping, and that's just Jimmy's midi library.

[D4NUK1]

1 hour ago, s1zzlorr said:

yeah, that's a good point! there's also youtube's automated content ID system, which is notoriously unforgiving especially when it comes to large record label music claims - "melody claims" exist and i can see that being used against even midis :/ (though i haven't heard of it happening before)

 

 

I remember the later happened with Decino valiant walkthrough, one of the secrets of the map have a arena with a midi recreation of the final countdown. And it's was given a caution to him.

[Doomkid]

3 hours ago, s1zzlorr said:

yeah, that's a good point! there's also youtube's automated content ID system, which is notoriously unforgiving especially when it comes to large record label music claims - "melody claims" exist and i can see that being used against even midis :/ (though i haven't heard of it happening before)

This happens to me allll the time!.. but I'll be god damned if I'm gonna give up the nearly 3 decade long tradition of using MIDIs of contemporary bands in my WADfiles just because of the draconian, corporatedicksuckery policies of some stupid social media sites!

 

Sorry for venting here, but sites that weren't a glint in their creators' eye by the time Doom was already old having a "forced impact" on what music WAD authors are able to choose really shits me up the damn wall. Not that people shouldn't use new and original ""non-copyrighted"" MIDIs by the community, of course not -- it's just that not having the choice (that we used to take for granted) to use preexisting MIDIs because of what it may do to streamers who cover your content is just so shit of a policy.

 

It's made far worse by the fact that half the time, the claims are utter bullshit! It's a MIDI from E1M4 of Doom, and yet some asshole copyright claim from some band called "Bad 2 U Baby" or whatever dumpster fire crap claims it's theirs, and takes your money as a result, and YT/Twicth just let them get away with this shit. Ugh!

 

Big corporate dumbfucks moving in over night, setting up shop and permanently altering Doom wad culture.. BAH! I spit on you TwitchTube, pitui!... *walks away grumbling*

[NeedHealth]

@s1zzlorr I remember a streamer having his vod muted a couple years back because a map in community chest whichever it was had a metallica midi playing.

Edited January 10, 2022 by NeedHealth

[Liberation]

@DoomkidIt's probably time we stopped using the Cranberries - zombie.mid in our maps anyway :-)

[Doomkid]

11 hours ago, Liberation said:

@DoomkidIt's probably time we stopped using the Cranberries - zombie.mid in our maps anyway :-)

You're probably right, Liberation.. But as a kid, I got into some of my all-time favorite bands because of Doom wads. NIN, Alice in Chains, Slayer.. These are things that had a profound impact on my life, it's funny to think that the seed of all that was simply playing wads as a child!

[Liberation]

10 hours ago, Doomkid said:

You're probably right, Liberation.. But as a kid, I got into some of my all-time favorite bands because of Doom wads. NIN, Alice in Chains, Slayer.. These are things that had a profound impact on my life, it's funny to think that the seed of all that was simply playing wads as a child!

 

Oh mate, teenager me finding https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/music/metalmus was just such an epic moment. And Doom actually got me into Pantera, so I can relate.

[Borg]

I'm curious now. I have a couple of tracks that I use that are my own covers, redone specifically for Doom maps. Mostly just removing any vocals.  I will probably never post the maps but I do have quite a few covers on Souncloud that have been there for a couple years without issue. Probably cause nobody listens.  I would just never use an original Mp3 in a map. Am I being a bit hypocritical by using my own covers though?

[ChopBlock223]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:56 AM, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

The worst case scenario is you might expose someone to a new artist they like (and might spend money on).

Doom and Doom 2 themselves exposed me to a ton. Some of the wildly speculative (and frequently incorrect) suggestions of origin on the Wikia exposed me to a good bit more.

 

On 1/10/2022 at 4:56 AM, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

A bigger problem for me is members using music made by other members and not giving them credit.

It's good to write down the authors of assets used, musical and others.

[ChopBlock223]

On 1/10/2022 at 5:25 AM, s1zzlorr said:

yeah, that's a good point! there's also youtube's automated content ID system, which is notoriously unforgiving especially when it comes to large record label music claims - "melody claims" exist and i can see that being used against even midis :/ (though i haven't heard of it happening before)

EnragedEggplant got content claimed on his playthrough of HFFM's Map 12, Later Forever, because it used a .midi of Bloodhound Gang's The Bad Touch.

Dwars also got content claimed for one or two .midis in 2048 Units Of /vr/.

 

They didn't have their videos muted, but they had what precious little ad revenue they'd be able to scrape from it taken away. Google really sucks.

[HavoX]

What's the point in using copyrighted songs when you can make your own?

 

Sure, it's a tough task to innovate and find inspiration, but you can do it!

[ChopBlock223]

1 hour ago, HavoX said:

What's the point in using copyrighted songs when you can make your own?

Because that rockin MIDI rendition of Megadeth's Hangar 18 suits my map perfectly.