Nukage Treatment Pools & Dead in Five Minutes – a new 2-map set [v. 1.05]

[Stabbey]

I essentially took all of 2021 off from making WADs, but I finally finished off two maps which I had mostly finished last in 2020. I am requesting feedback, particularly on what works and is fun, and what doesn't work and is not fun (probably "Dead in Five Minutes"!). I'm open to a lot of changes based on user feedback.

 

If there are issues with the map working with different ports, or other bugs, I'll try to correct those where it's reasonable.

 

Title: Nukage Treatment Pools / Dead in Five Minutes

Game IWAD: Doom2

Game format:- Doom 2

Game file: NTP_Di5M_v103.wad

Maps: 01, 02

Difficulties Set: - Monsters and items adjusted for all three difficulty levels.

Style: Standard Doom "Hub + 3" (Map 01) / "Bullet Hell" changing into Standard Doom (Map 02)

Build software: Ultimate Doom Builder & Slade 3

Target Source port used/tested: GZDoom 4.5.0+

NOTE: MAP 01 does not work in the DSDA Doom source port, likely because of incompatible line actions.

 

All maps have been tested and completed from a pistol start on Ultra-Violence, collecting no secrets. Freelook is allowed and encouraged. Jumping and Crouching is not permitted.

 

Download: 

https://www.doomworld.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=176961

 

Changelog:

Version 1.05
- [MAP01] Added crushers to ensure a 100% kill rate is possible even under unusual circumstances.

- [MAP01] Tweaked lower difficulty settings.
- [MAP02] Added an additional chaingun at the start.
- [MAP02] Changed Par Time to 9:30.

 

Version 1.04
- [MAP01] Added a radiation suit behind bars through the blue key door.
- [MAP01] Removed the fake wall and replaced it with a lowering floor for something less "cheap".
- [MAP01] Made a secret slightly more obvious.
- [MAP01] Reduced amount of grey in blue key room.
- [MAP01] Removed some Arachnotrons for pacing purposes.
- [MAP02] Changed start to ensure player shoots. Removed imps from start.
- [MAP02] Added additional imps in Imp enclosure to reduce a dead spot in the monster flow.
- [MAP02] Changed placement of starting weapon pickups.
- [MAP02] Altered monsters for difficulty settings.
- [MAP02] Changed armor for final room based on difficulty setting.
- [MAP02] Added additional medkit to start room.
- [MAP02] Removed 20 Gibbed Marine decorations which reduced visibility.
- [MAP02] Changed timing of +100 armor bonuses to halfway through the encounter.
- [MAP02] Added difficulty-based small health boosts for each minute the player survives.
- [MAP02] Certain lines are no longer hidden on the map.
- [MAP02] Added Computer Area Map
- [MAP02] Added 10 additional rockets.
- [MAP02] Removed "lock-in" from stairs.
- [MAP02] Changed composition of monster closets.
- [MAP02] Two additional pillars in final room now also change.
- [MAP02] Texture alignment fixes.

 

Version 1.03
- [MAP01] Improved the look of the ceilings in the hub.
- [MAP01] Put the red key on a pedastal for greater visibility.
- [MAP01] Reduced the amount of rocket ammo. Increased the amount of shells.
- [MAP01] Made progression slightly easier to find in the Red Key door.
- [MAP01] Added some barricades which raise up to assist in the final fight.
- [MAP01] Removed Cell Charge Packs and replaced with a smaller amount of Cell Packs.
- [MAP01] Tweaked composition of final fight caches.
- [MAP01] Changed appearance of switches for cargo lift in exit area.
- [MAP02] Added a countdown timer!
- [MAP02] Fixed a visible monster-teleport line.
- [MAP02] Replaced a green armor with 100 armor bonuses.

 

Version 1.02
- [MAP01] Moved additonal lines which could cause problems in the DSDA port.
- [MAP01] Reduced the amount of health in the starting room, adjusted for difficulty settings.
- [MAP01] Added an additional enemy which can appear in the starting room, two on hard difficulty.
- [MAP01] Adjusted some enemies on different difficulty settings.
- [MAP01] Adjusted difficulty placement of health pickups in the red key room.
- [MAP01] Added some additional shells and bullets to the blue key room.
- [MAP01] Added some additional enemies in the blue key room to provide more coverage of blind spots.

 

Version 1.01
- [MAP 01] Changed walls at end of long corridors to reflect the style of those areas to help orient the player.

- [MAP 01] Adjusted nukage trench bars to prevent the 32-unit shimmy.
- [MAP 01] Moved a trigger to avoid interference with a door.
- [MAP 02] Removed the confusing switches in the starting room and replaced with a simple lowering floor.
- [MAP 02] Changed how the switch to open the starting room exit is revealed.
- [MAP 02] Removed the secret combat armor and put the secret Soul Sphere in its place.
- [MAP 02] Adjusted some enemy difficulty settings.
- [MAP 02] Added teleport lines to move some roaming Cacodemons to a better spot to better facilitate cleanup.
- [MAP 02] Added some additional Cacodemons based on difficulty settings.
- [MAP 02] Tagged a new sector as secret and added a Berserk Pack.
- [MAP 02] Added a couple additional stimpaks in a tricky area.
- [MAP 02] Added some light to a switch to increase visibility.
- [MAP 02] Fixed some texture misalignments.

 

 

MAP 01 - Nukage Treatment Pools

The bridge leading directly to the heart of the starport was destroyed, so a side trip through the waste processing areas is required. You'll need to first fill up the central room's pool all the way to the top, then drain it into the overflow pool to float the crates up high enough.

 

This is a highly linear “hub + 3” map. The difficulty starts out intense, but then dials back somewhat before ramping back up. In my opinion, there should be many unique-feeling battles, and several interesting design setpieces. Playtime should be about 40-50 minutes if you don't die. This was originally intended to replace “The Waste Tunnels” (MAP 05) in a larger WAD.

 

Music:  "Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary" by Lee Jackson from the Rise of the Triad OST.

 

Modding Note: If you’re going to use the Supercharge mod, change "Use vanilla projectile origins for fusionite" to ON under the SC Options > Compatibility Options for the intended play experience.

 

Screenshots:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MAP 02 - Dead in Five Minutes

Jumping into the crusher chute was probably not your brightest plan. The maintenance hatch won't open and the ceiling is getting closer. Oh, and monsters are taking potshots at you. Can you hold out for five minutes?

 

This is a relatively short map which has no keys and very few switches. That’s not to say that it’s easy, though. Honestly this map is probably going to be pretty controversial, as the gameplay in the first part resembles a first-person “bullet hell” game. This map is very gimmicky, and as such, it is not going to be to everyone’s taste, and I might end up just completely scrapping it. (Don’t worry about the high monster count.) Playtime should be about 15-20 minutes if you don't die. This was originally intended to replace “The Crusher” (MAP 06) in a larger WAD.

 

Music:  "Spray" by Lee Jackson from the Rise of the Triad OST.

 

Screenshots:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Download:

https://www.doomworld.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=176961

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Stabbey
Added Notes and link for Version 1.05

[Large Cat]

I started the first map on DSDA Doom, and made it as far as the two nukage canals after the hub fight. For some reason, the switches to lower the three bars don't seem to be possible to activate; same problem when I try activating the bars from behind. It worked in GZDoom, so it appears to be a port issue.

[Stabbey]

55 minutes ago, Large Cat said:

I started the first map on DSDA Doom, and made it as far as the two nukage canals after the hub fight. For some reason, the switches to lower the three bars don't seem to be possible to activate; same problem when I try activating the bars from behind. It worked in GZDoom, so it appears to be a port issue.

 

Ah, that's line action 159: S1 Floor lower to lowest floor (changes texture). That action might not be in that port - at least under that name. ...Or, I see a texture on the back side of that line for some reason. I don't know what that's doing there.

 

The switch for the next set of bars doesn't have that texture on the backside. You could try noclipping to that switch and see if that one works. If it doesn't, the problem is the line action. If that one does work, then maybe removing that unneeded texture will solve it. (But it's probably the line action.)

[Large Cat]

13 minutes ago, Stabbey said:

Ah, that's line action 159: S1 Floor lower to lowest floor (changes texture). That action might not be in that port - at least under that name.

None of the switches works in DSDA Doom. However, I tried it in PrBoom+, and it worked fine, which is very strange. I guess I'll have to play the rest in PrBoom+.

[ryiron]

Also tried map01 in DSDA-Doom. The door at the end of the corridor with the blue lights doesn't open for me (no sound when pressing it). If I clip through it the other side does work correctly. No idea why. It looks fine in the map editor.

 

Initial impressions are that the map is very spacious. The corridors on each side of the central hub for example are really wide and long, and the double wide door textures look strange. The symmetrical nature makes it really easy to get disorientated, especially with the long corridors everywhere. 

 

Combat wise: the first fight in the central hub is basically a circle strafe affair. I really dislike the chaingunners at the ends of each of the corridors. They are slightly out of sniping distance, so the options are either: wait an eternity for them to walk towards you, or just rush them and lose some health in the process. I like the fight in the slime where the imps appear and you have to rush to each of the switches to get out. The spiders that spawn after that are easy to pick off by hiding against the walls. The ones that spawn at the other end (where you come in) are annoying in the same way as the corridor chaingunners: it's not very fun fighting enemies that are miles away.

 

I got a bit stuck as this point because I couldn't progress after getting the blue key.

 

 

[Stabbey]

8 hours ago, Large Cat said:

None of the switches works in DSDA Doom. However, I tried it in PrBoom+, and it worked fine, which is very strange. I guess I'll have to play the rest in PrBoom+.

 

I can probably fix those pillars in the next version by making a tiny surrounding sector one unit lowered with untextured sides to just give the illusion of them sinking into slime, and giving them the damage tag.

 

EDIT: I can make the pillars disappear, sure, but the player can stand over where they were and take no damage from the slime, because their feet aren't touching the ground. Hmmm... Maybe that's fine since players aren't likely to notice if the imps are still there, and after they're dead it doesn't matter.

 

6 hours ago, ryiron said:

Also tried map01 in DSDA-Doom. The door at the end of the corridor with the blue lights doesn't open for me (no sound when pressing it). If I clip through it the other side does work correctly. No idea why. It looks fine in the map editor.

 

Initial impressions are that the map is very spacious. The corridors on each side of the central hub for example are really wide and long, and the double wide door textures look strange. The symmetrical nature makes it really easy to get disorientated, especially with the long corridors everywhere. 

 

Combat wise: the first fight in the central hub is basically a circle strafe affair. I really dislike the chaingunners at the ends of each of the corridors. They are slightly out of sniping distance, so the options are either: wait an eternity for them to walk towards you, or just rush them and lose some health in the process. I like the fight in the slime where the imps appear and you have to rush to each of the switches to get out. The spiders that spawn after that are easy to pick off by hiding against the walls. The ones that spawn at the other end (where you come in) are annoying in the same way as the corridor chaingunners: it's not very fun fighting enemies that are miles away.

 

I got a bit stuck as this point because I couldn't progress after getting the blue key.

 

 

 

Which door do you mean? The grey BIGDOOR2 one at the end of the long stepped corridor, or the brown BIGDOOR4 which leads into a room with the Red Key visible on a platform? The grey BIGDOOR 2 is literally just a standard D1 and it should work. There is a Standard Doom 1 linedef 89 action 16 units from it, but that should work. The brown BIGDOOR4 is opened by switch elsewhere. The actual door that needs the blue key is a standard line action 32. There's an autosave line 24 units away from the far side of that one, but you said the far side of a door worked.

 

If you meant the door with blue lights in the slime pit room where you got the blue key, that's a standard Doom line action 99. I don't know any reason why those standard line actions wouldn't work in a modern source port.

 

Architecture:

 

The spaciousness and long corridors are intentional. The chaingunners at the ends are there specifically to discourage players from ducking out of the hub room fight early (without strictly forbidding them from doing so). You also don't need to wait an eternity to kill them, single-click tapping them with the chaingun from the door puts them into pain states before they get a bead on you and you can kill them with little trouble. You just can't do that safely before the hub is quiet. You could also drop into the dry trench to get cover to approach them.

The long corridor also has another use later on and the double-wide door is intentional for better monster flow. I did put color-coded arrows outside of doors to indicate which key you'll need for that one to help orient the player, but you've got a good point about it being confusing. I have now changed the textures at the end of the corridor to match the areas beyond to better orient the player. I mean, it's still all gray stone, but it's three different types now.

 

 

Combat:

 

Hmmm... I don't find the combat in the first room to be nearly as simple as circle-strafe, but perhaps I'm using a different approach. All the grates make the Revenants more dangerous with fewer walls to absorb shots. I also put in Pain Elementals to force the player to engage and take them out. There are also a few hitscanners around that can chip away. But maybe I'm just not that great a player.

I'm glad you liked the fight in the slime.

The Spiders near the Blue Key aren't supposed to be too hard to take out. I did recognize they're not a big threat up close, so in testing I added the additional one which has a better horizontal angle, as well as some Cacodemons to harass and force the player to move. The ones at the far end are tricky to deal with by design: the long sight lines play to their strengths and force the player out of their comfort zone to deal with them. The beauty of that part is that despite how unintuitive it seems, charging them like a maniac is actually an extremely effective approach.

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Stabbey
additional notes

[ryiron]

8 hours ago, Stabbey said:

The grey BIGDOOR 2 is literally just a standard D1 and it should work. There is a Standard Doom 1 linedef 89 action 16 units from it, but that should work.

 

That linedef action 89 is what appears to be messing things up. If I enable "pass through on all specials", or add the passthru flag to that linedef (the type=89, tag=123 one) then it works fine. I'm not sure why a walk over line affects the ability to activate a door line though?

 

I also briefly played map02 last night, though I didn't record it sorry. I like the idea in this one: being locked into a small room and put under pressure from multiple sides. But the execution is a bit off for me. I think sort of fight works much better when its 10-20 seconds max, but the pressure is really high. I was basically waiting ages for each switch to appear while casually dodging imp fireballs. The cyberdemons couldn't really aim at me until about the fourth or fifth switch. I had a couple of cacos float over but they were easily dispatched. The spiders were a bit annoying when they appeared, but it seems like a wall closes on them shortly afterwards or something? I eventually copped a stray rocket around the fifth switch (iirc) when the bars around the cybers started raising. I'm not sure if it is intentional or not, but the imps/spiders are out of reach of auto-aim, so playing without mouse-look means dodging the whole time.

[Stabbey]

Updated with some minor tweaks:

 

Version 1.01
- [MAP 01] Changed walls at end of long corridors to reflect the style of those areas, to help orient the player.

- [MAP 01] Adjusted nukage trench bars to prevent the 32-unit shimmy.
- [MAP 01] Moved a trigger to avoid interference with a door.
- [MAP 02] Removed the confusing switches in the starting room and replaced with a simple lowering floor.
- [MAP 02] Changed how the switch to open the starting room exit is revealed.
- [MAP 02] Removed the secret combat armor and put the secret Soul Sphere in its place.
- [MAP 02] Adjusted some enemy difficulty settings.
- [MAP 02] Added teleport lines to move some roaming Cacodemons to a better spot to better facilitate cleanup.
- [MAP 02] Added some additional Cacodemons based on difficulty settings.
- [MAP 02] Tagged a new sector as secret and added a Berserk Pack.
- [MAP 02] Added a couple additional stimpaks in a tricky area.
- [MAP 02] Added some light to a switch to increase visibility.
- [MAP 02] Fixed some texture misalignments.

 

Download: Removed

 

On 2/3/2022 at 3:53 PM, ryiron said:

 

That linedef action 89 is what appears to be messing things up. If I enable "pass through on all specials", or add the passthru flag to that linedef (the type=89, tag=123 one) then it works fine. I'm not sure why a walk over line affects the ability to activate a door line though?

 

I also briefly played map02 last night, though I didn't record it sorry. I like the idea in this one: being locked into a small room and put under pressure from multiple sides. But the execution is a bit off for me. I think sort of fight works much better when its 10-20 seconds max, but the pressure is really high. I was basically waiting ages for each switch to appear while casually dodging imp fireballs. The cyberdemons couldn't really aim at me until about the fourth or fifth switch. I had a couple of cacos float over but they were easily dispatched. The spiders were a bit annoying when they appeared, but it seems like a wall closes on them shortly afterwards or something? I eventually copped a stray rocket around the fifth switch (iirc) when the bars around the cybers started raising. I'm not sure if it is intentional or not, but the imps/spiders are out of reach of auto-aim, so playing without mouse-look means dodging the whole time.

 

I have heard that specials on lines too close together can cause an issue, but didn't think 16 units away was too close, and I also didn't think that both activatible and walk-over lines would conflict like that. I could probably shift that line... but if that one caused a problem, others in the WAD will probably also cause problems like that, especially in MAP 02.

 

Re Map 02:

 

Fair criticism. The 5 minute time span came from the idea to use the "Door Opens after 5 Minutes" sector special. But you're absolutely correct that I could always use a lowering floor to block the player in for a shorter amount of time. I'm not sure though, that 30 seconds is enough time for the tension to build up. 10-20 seconds of this is not challenging or difficult enough to be interesting, and hence not worth basing a level around.

 

 

None of the switches in the cage are required to press. All those do is provide the player with health (100 on easy, 80 on medium, 60 on hard) to help them survive, because being locked in a box, you can't go elsewhere for more supplies. I have removed them all now and replaced them with automated lowering floors. This will be far less confusing.

 

I actually recently cut out many enemies out of concern that it was too much to deal with. I have now added some back in. That said, the more enemies shooting at you, the easier it'll be to get distracted with them and die to a stray rocket.

 

The spiders got crushed. Everyone is underneath a crusher, each one has different timings. I do recommend allowing free look for the map, I don't think I emphasized that enough. I don't remember if the enemies being out of auto-aim range was intentional. I think it was done mostly because them shooting from above was much more visually interesting, and it also made it harder for the enemies to hit the Cacodemons, thus distracting the Cacodemons from their job of making sure the player can't stay hugging the edge.

 

All the bars in the Cyberdemon pen are gradually lowering, giving them more openings to shoot as time passes.

 

Edited April 3, 2024 by Stabbey
removed outdated link

[ryiron]

There's still a couple of broken doors in map01. The red key door in the room with the mancubi on the moving platforms, and I also got stuck in the pool door corridor because the door doesn't open from the inside. It might be worth doing a -nomonsters -record run through with dsda-doom or prboom to find them all (recording a demo forces the passthru specials fix off). 

 

I played the map a few more times. I was over exaggerating the chaingunner corridors, they aren't that bad. But the size of them, and the double wide doors does feel a bit 90s mapping. The first fight is fine really. It can be circle strafed, but there's a few other ways to approach it too.

 

The area where you get the blue key has lots of in-fighting opportunities. I think the area is overly big, but that's also personal preference. 

 

For the area where you get the red key, the first fight can basically just be avoided. If you jump in the nukage, the enemies will eventually all pile up behind the door to the mancubus area, and then you can get them in-fighting or rocket them down. I'm not a big fan of the mancubus platforms, but then I've never really liked the grid of moving platforms trope. I think you maybe need monster blocking lines on each platform though since several of the mancubi got themselves stuck on the edges which made them easy to pick off. The biggest hazard in this room is actually rocketing yourself in the face when a lift suddenly rises.

 

The pinkie/revenant/caco fight in the final area I got to is the highlight of the map for me. It's a bit of a step up in difficultly from the earlier fight. I died here when playing blind because I saw the pinkies first, ran to the other end and realised there was a shit-ton of revenants, went to run for the door and fell into the nukage, at which point I was basically screwed.

 

The rest of the play-through below is is blind. The next fight is not too hard, pretty easy to get everything to just in-fight. Then I unfortunately got stuck in the corridor because there's another linedef needing the passthru flag, and I think there is a button I missed which opens the buttons for the pool door?

 

 

[Stabbey]

Version 1.02 (See bottom of this post for link.)

- [MAP01] Moved additonal lines which could cause problems in the DSDA port.
- [MAP01] Reduced the amount of health in the starting room, adjusted for difficulty settings.
- [MAP01] Added an additional enemy which can appear in the starting room, two on hard difficulty.
- [MAP01] Adjusted some enemies on different difficulty settings.
- [MAP01] Adjusted difficulty placement of health pickups in the red key room.
- [MAP01] Added some additional shells and bullets to the blue key room.
- [MAP01] Added some additional enemies in the blue key room to provide more coverage of blind spots.

 

 

Quote

For the area where you get the red key, the first fight can basically just be avoided. If you jump in the nukage, the enemies will eventually all pile up behind the door to the mancubus area, and then you can get them in-fighting or rocket them down. I'm not a big fan of the mancubus platforms, but then I've never really liked the grid of moving platforms trope. I think you maybe need monster blocking lines on each platform though since several of the mancubi got themselves stuck on the edges which made them easy to pick off. The biggest hazard in this room is actually rocketing yourself in the face when a lift suddenly rises.

 

I don't mind players using infighting, I use infighting as well. I am okay with players attempting to skip the fight by running into the nukage, that's one of the things I did try in my tests. I lower the invisible floor blocking the windows to allow anything still in that area to shoot at the players on the pumping platform sections. And, as you saw, if enemies spill onto the platforms, that adds another wrinkle.

 

I think I'll accept mancubi getting stuck on the edges, as the fight is much more interesting if they can move around or get off the platform. That said, looking at the video, they seem to be getting stuck far easier than they do in my GZDoom playthroughs.

 

I have eaten dozens of rockets trying to kill mancubi in my play-testing runs, and I consider avoiding suicide-by-ill-timed-rocket as part of the challenge of the fight.

 

Quote

The pinkie/revenant/caco fight in the final area I got to is the highlight of the map for me. It's a bit of a step up in difficultly from the earlier fight. I died here when playing blind because I saw the pinkies first, ran to the other end and realised there was a shit-ton of revenants, went to run for the door and fell into the nukage, at which point I was basically screwed.

 

Perfect, working as intended. In testing, running to the door made that too easy, so I looked for a "lock-in" solution which was a little different than the ones used earlier. That part where the floor falls into nukage - that's interesting because that is the other place I use line action 159. So if that works, the switches for the bars not working must have been because of something else. EDIT: I saw from the video that there are now 4 bars in the nukage trench, which means that's the version I just uploaded. That is actually the original line action 159 - I undid the tweaks I made to make it more DSDA compatible, so it's interesting that the bars are now working. I don't know what the big difference is, all I did was change the size of the bars, add in a fourth bar and remove the unneeded texture on the back line of the switch.

 

Download: See top or bottom

 

Edited April 3, 2024 by Stabbey
removed outdated link

[Stabbey]

10 hours ago, ryiron said:

 

 

I did not mean to double post, I was trying to edit a quote into the above post. Oops.

 

Re: Video:

- Wow the .MID sounds a lot different in that port than in GZDoom.

- Video is very helpful, especially for balance. I can't be a great judge of how much health is needed, so I tend to err on the side of stocking more than I need.

- The blue key room fights seem largely fine, I don't usually want to force the player too much into playing in one specific way. The infighting approach drained all the shells and bullets, forcing the use of plasma rifle, so the ammo balance there looks about right.

- You even took some extra damage from surprise Arachnotron bursts and ended up using most of the health, also good to see.

- Glad that the secret switch was spotted, and glad that the rad suit was used for its intended purpose of collecting the other side's item.

- GZDoom handles the Mancubi crossing the platforms much better, they don't get stuck very easily.

- The fight in the dark room isn't supposed to be all that difficult, especially since it comes in-between two other difficult fights, not to mention that you can't go back for health after dropping down. It's more to add a little bit of mental stress for the player. Using infighting there is expected.

- Yeah, you missed the button to drain the pool so you could get into it. The bars around it opened at the same time as the monster closets.

- After you couldn't get into the pool, you couldn't get back into the UAC door to the dark room, because of another line which was close. That one I have just now fixed. Speaking as a level creator, though, I find it super-inconvenient that 16 units of space is considered "too close together".

Edited February 5, 2022 by Stabbey

[Stabbey]

Based on feedback from Terminus's recent playthrough, I made some changes. New screenshots are below:

 

 

 

 

 

Version 1.03
- [MAP01] Improved the look of the ceilings in the hub.
- [MAP01] Put the red key on a pedestal for greater visibility.
- [MAP01] Reduced the amount of rocket ammo. Increased the amount of shells.
- [MAP01] Made progression slightly easier to find in the Red Key door.
- [MAP01] Added some barricades which raise up to assist in the final fight.
- [MAP01] Removed Cell Charge Packs and replaced with a smaller amount of Cell Packs.
- [MAP01] Tweaked composition of final fight caches.
- [MAP01] Changed appearance of switches for cargo lift in exit area.
- [MAP02] Added a countdown timer!
- [MAP02] Fixed a visible monster-teleport line.
- [MAP02] Replaced a green armor with 100 armor bonuses.

 

EDIT: Removed outdated link

Edited April 3, 2024 by Stabbey
removed outdated link

[Large Cat]

Finally got around to playing through both maps (on UV, version 1.03). I ended up playing with GZDoom. Both PrBoom+ and DSDA Doom gave error "R_TextureNumForName: SKY3 not found". Oddly, Crispy Doom booted up fine, but the switch to lower the bars in the nukage canal seems to be a non-vanilla action, so my run ended there.

 

I'll start with the first map, which I preferred.

 

Visually, the map was modest, but well-done. Detail wasn't over-the-top, but there was enough flair to keep interest. The touches like appearance or disappearance of nukage clearly got some thought, and I liked the way the player progressed through most areas, usually looping back around in interesting ways; the blue key and red key wings get special mention here. I also liked the switch sequence when first entering the yellow key wing; the tension built well, I think. I didn't look terribly hard for things like texture misalignments; nothing was egregious. The only thing I noticed was a little weirdness with the horizontal alignment of the brown grate mid-textures around the hub.

 

Combat-wise, I was very pleased with the encounters. They were generally dangerous, but beatable even though I was playing blind, and they felt dynamic, giving multiple fronts of monsters to deal with. I was flush with rockets and cells from the moment I got their weapons, and didn't seem to have that many shells, despite the fact that you seem to have made changes to combat this. Maybe I'm just too stingy with the big guns.

 

Now that I've made it clear that most of the combats were to my taste, I'll share moments I didn't enjoy as much. The combat that happened in the main hub never hit the highs of the other more choreographed fights for me. Initially, I feel like I'm just running in big loops, letting out some flak when I get near something that isn't infighting. Maybe it's my personal preferences, but this combat feels unhinged to me (it's also sucking in the chaingunners from the long staircases, since the shotgunners like to open those doors). I have a similar feeling when the archviles arrive; I just pump rockets at them from the middle area until enough pass through their resurrected meat shields to down them. The rising and lowering mancubi were entertaining, though that fight takes a while due to how far the floors have to move. Last, the cleanup in the blue key wing was pretty slow; the threat was surprisingly minor, so I had to do circuits cleaning up arachnotrons for a long time.

 

Now for the second map. I didn't like this one as much, not because its main gimmick is bad, but because I don't like the subsequent encounters as well as I did in the first map. The staircase is awkward to fight on, and the dark blood arena seems very determined by whether you can quickly snuff out the archvile with the rocket launcher before spectres force me to resort to the SSG (the spectres blocking movement also feels more irritating than a strategic element, to me). The main "bullet-hell" element was surprisingly sparse with projectiles, so it didn't end up being that energetic, since so much waiting is involved (5 minutes is a long time!). I completed the initial portion the first time by not shooting, which doesn't seem intended, as there is nearly zero threat in this case, just three imps and two cyberdemons halfway through.

 

The secrets seemed very well-hidden; I didn't do much dedicated secret hunting and only found the soulsphere in the blue key wing of the nukage treatment pools. These seem harder to find than typical secrets, but that's fine if you want your secrets to be obscure.

 

That's my experience with the maps. I really did like the first map; it really agrees with my style, and it was done well. I hope you keep it up!

 

 

[Stabbey]

14 hours ago, Large Cat said:

Finally got around to playing through both maps (on UV, version 1.03). I ended up playing with GZDoom. Both PrBoom+ and DSDA Doom gave error "R_TextureNumForName: SKY3 not found". Oddly, Crispy Doom booted up fine, but the switch to lower the bars in the nukage canal seems to be a non-vanilla action, so my run ended there.

 

I'll start with the first map, which I preferred.

 

Visually, the map was modest, but well-done. Detail wasn't over-the-top, but there was enough flair to keep interest. The touches like appearance or disappearance of nukage clearly got some thought, and I liked the way the player progressed through most areas, usually looping back around in interesting ways; the blue key and red key wings get special mention here. I also liked the switch sequence when first entering the yellow key wing; the tension built well, I think. I didn't look terribly hard for things like texture misalignments; nothing was egregious. The only thing I noticed was a little weirdness with the horizontal alignment of the brown grate mid-textures around the hub.

 

Combat-wise, I was very pleased with the encounters. They were generally dangerous, but beatable even though I was playing blind, and they felt dynamic, giving multiple fronts of monsters to deal with. I was flush with rockets and cells from the moment I got their weapons, and didn't seem to have that many shells, despite the fact that you seem to have made changes to combat this. Maybe I'm just too stingy with the big guns.

 

Now that I've made it clear that most of the combats were to my taste, I'll share moments I didn't enjoy as much. The combat that happened in the main hub never hit the highs of the other more choreographed fights for me. Initially, I feel like I'm just running in big loops, letting out some flak when I get near something that isn't infighting. Maybe it's my personal preferences, but this combat feels unhinged to me (it's also sucking in the chaingunners from the long staircases, since the shotgunners like to open those doors). I have a similar feeling when the archviles arrive; I just pump rockets at them from the middle area until enough pass through their resurrected meat shields to down them. The rising and lowering mancubi were entertaining, though that fight takes a while due to how far the floors have to move. Last, the cleanup in the blue key wing was pretty slow; the threat was surprisingly minor, so I had to do circuits cleaning up arachnotrons for a long time.

 

Now for the second map. I didn't like this one as much, not because its main gimmick is bad, but because I don't like the subsequent encounters as well as I did in the first map. The staircase is awkward to fight on, and the dark blood arena seems very determined by whether you can quickly snuff out the archvile with the rocket launcher before spectres force me to resort to the SSG (the spectres blocking movement also feels more irritating than a strategic element, to me). The main "bullet-hell" element was surprisingly sparse with projectiles, so it didn't end up being that energetic, since so much waiting is involved (5 minutes is a long time!). I completed the initial portion the first time by not shooting, which doesn't seem intended, as there is nearly zero threat in this case, just three imps and two cyberdemons halfway through.

 

The secrets seemed very well-hidden; I didn't do much dedicated secret hunting and only found the soulsphere in the blue key wing of the nukage treatment pools. These seem harder to find than typical secrets, but that's fine if you want your secrets to be obscure.

 

That's my experience with the maps. I really did like the first map; it really agrees with my style, and it was done well. I hope you keep it up!

 

 

 

Thanks for your feedback. It's appreciated and helpful. Some thoughts on what you said:

 

• I'll take another look and see if there's anything I can do for improving the compatibility on other ports.
  
• The switch action on the pillars is not vanilla standard. It's 159: S1 Floor Lower to lowest floor (change texture). I attempted removing it before, but stopped because I am using it at a place which I can't do a workaround for.
  
• I'm not sure why it would be complaining about SKY 3. To my knowledge, I shouldn't be using a SKY 3 anywhere, so I must have made a mistake somewhere. I'll try and track it down.
  
• The Yellow Key area is supposed to quietly convey the idea of an immenent big fight, so I'm glad the tension worked.
  
•   I don't know if there's much I can do with the combat in the hub area, I give the player a lot of freedom to decide how to approach it. If I press too hard on the difficulty, that could close off playstyles for other players, which could be frustrating. The first fight in the hub room is more to teach the player how to move in that space for the fight at the end of the map. Interesting you found staying in the middle good against the Arch-Viles. That's probably because of the blockers in front of the teleporters I added very recently. That's probably fine because hiding there leaves you open to attack from the other side. I'll continue to test, but I think that's probably okay.
  
• My guess for you being high on cells and low on shells is from using a lot of shells on the arachnotrons in the blue key room, and not many cells. Spending more cells there might have cut on the time it took. I'll change one 4-pack of shells in that room to a box. The blue key room fight isn't supposed to be super-difficult, as it's early in the map and supposed to be easier than most fights which come after. I probably did overdo it with the Arachnotrons, I had to add more from my original plan as new angles to cheese the fight appeared.
  
• It is true that I assume the player has to fire in Map 02 and if they don’t, they won’t be facing as big a threat. The thing is that I can only think of one way to force the player to fire, and that’s to put in hitscanners – likely chaingunners – with wide enough angles so there is no single safe spot. Is that worth it to try and stop a certain subset of people from cheesing the map in a way which will be boring for them? I’m not sure.
  
  Fair points about the rest of the map not having as great a set of encounters. I knew how I wanted to start the map, but I struggled for a long time trying to figure out how to end the map. I just knew I wanted the map to be pretty short, use no keys, show some progression of hellish areas, and have a teleporter exit. I focused most of my worries on the main focus of the level, because if that’s not fun, then there’s no point in the map existing. I could probably cut out the chaingunner encounter on the stairs entirely, and just have the stair trigger open up the path further in. Or tweak it so that you don't get locked in and are facing a large group of weak enemies instead of chaingunners. Something like that.
  
• The Specters are definitely not behaving quite like I want. I wanted the crowd to suddenly appear to force the player to move quickly into the room and hit all the triggers at once, but after that, they're coming in too fast. I think I'll have to slow the rate of how they flow into the room.
  
• I can tweak some of the secrets a bit. I do put in tells, but maybe they’re too subtle.
  
  

[Stabbey]

Actually, this is an important question so I think I should open it up for more discussion:

 

I assume the player has to fire in Map 02, but I cannot force them to fire. If they don’t fire, they won’t be facing as big a threat. The thing is that I can only think of one way to force the player to fire early on in the fight, and that’s to put in hitscanners – likely chaingunners – with wide enough angles so there is no single safe spot, and situated so that they cannot be distracted by enemy fire or infight with each other.

 

Is the additional difficulty some hitscanners will add to the fight worth it to try and stop a certain subset of people from cheesing the map in a way which will be boring for them? I’m not sure.

[Large Cat]

18 minutes ago, Stabbey said:

Is the additional difficulty some hitscanners will add to the fight worth it to try and stop a certain subset of people from cheesing the map in a way which will be boring for them? I’m not sure.

Adding a few hitscanners shouldn't alter the dynamics too much, as they will be easy to slap down in the first 15 seconds, giving a good reason to fire at the beginning. You could also look into a more artificial solution, where the player is forced to fire at a gun-operated switch or barrel at the very beginning of the map to progress.

[Stabbey]

16 minutes ago, Large Cat said:

Adding a few hitscanners shouldn't alter the dynamics too much, as they will be easy to slap down in the first 15 seconds, giving a good reason to fire at the beginning. You could also look into a more artificial solution, where the player is forced to fire at a gun-operated switch or barrel at the very beginning of the map to progress.

 

I considered a gun-operated switch, but I don't have any reasonable way to force the player to shoot at the start of the map. They could just wait until the five minutes was almost up. The opening few seconds are set up to force the player to immediately move and cross the triggers. If they can sit there, that will alter the timing of everything except the Sector Effect 14 door.

 

I'm currently testing some changes, such as adding in three hitscanners in a way that they can't start infights and can't be hidden from, but which can be easily dispatched by attacking them. I'm also testing some changes to the stairs encounter, such as not locking the player into the stairs, and replacing the chaingunners with a weaker threat.

[Suitepee]

https://youtu.be/h0jBQ1MsekU

 

Playthrough starts at 1:34:30. Fun two maps overall.

[Stabbey]

Based on feedback from Terminus, John Suitepee and Large Cat, I've made some additional changes.

 

Version 1.04

 

Download:

 

 

Changelog:
- [MAP01] Added a radiation suit behind bars through the blue key door.
- [MAP01] Removed the fake wall and replaced it with a lowering floor for something less "cheap".
- [MAP01] Made a secret slightly more obvious.
- [MAP01] Reduced amount of grey in blue key room.
- [MAP01] Removed some Arachnotrons for pacing purposes.
- [MAP02] Changed start to ensure player shoots. Removed imps from start.
- [MAP02] Added additional imps in Imp enclosure to reduce a dead spot in the monster flow.
- [MAP02] Changed placement of starting weapon pickups.
- [MAP02] Altered monsters for difficulty settings.
- [MAP02] Changed armor for final room based on difficulty setting.
- [MAP02] Added additional medkit to start room.
- [MAP02] Removed 20 Gibbed Marine decorations which reduced visibility.
- [MAP02] Changed timing of +100 armor bonuses to halfway through the encounter.
- [MAP02] Added difficulty-based small health boosts for each minute the player survives.
- [MAP02] Certain lines are no longer hidden on the map.
- [MAP02] Added Computer Area Map
- [MAP02] Added 10 additional rockets.
- [MAP02] Removed "lock-in" from stairs.
- [MAP02] Changed composition of monster closets.
- [MAP02] Two additional pillars in final room now also change.
- [MAP02] Texture alignment fixes.

 

On 3/1/2022 at 11:34 AM, Large Cat said:

Adding a few hitscanners shouldn't alter the dynamics too much, as they will be easy to slap down in the first 15 seconds, giving a good reason to fire at the beginning. You could also look into a more artificial solution, where the player is forced to fire at a gun-operated switch or barrel at the very beginning of the map to progress.

 

I removed the imps from the starting room, since they were only there to encourage the player to shoot, and I added three hitscanners to ensure coverage of the arena. Two of them are in separate cages. The rear wall of the cages are shoot-switches that seal the cages off, so the player doesn't even need to waste much focus killing them. (They get crushed eventually.) I added an extra medikit to compensate for the additional damage players are likely to take, and added some small health boosts for every minute the player survives.

 

I also made some secrets a little easier to find, and added an automap to MAP 02.

 

On 3/1/2022 at 6:59 PM, Suitepee said:

https://youtu.be/h0jBQ1MsekU

 

Playthrough starts at 1:34:30. Fun two maps overall.

 

Thanks for the playthrough, good feedback.

 

• I changed the fake wall to a more standard monster closet, as I was able to figure out a way to get it to open at the proper time.
• I reduced the amount of grey in the blue key room by changing the main ceiling texture to a different color.
• The staircase in MAP 02 is less mean and no longer has a lock-in.
• The final room in MAP 02 now filters in the spectres at a slower rate, and the initial armor is blue on easy and hard difficulties, but the second armor is now green on medium and hard difficulties.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Stabbey
removed outdatefd thing

[Stabbey]

A small update tweaking a couple things.

 

Version 1.05
- [MAP01] Added crushers to ensure a 100% kill rate is possible even under unusual circumstances.

- [MAP01] Tweaked lower difficulty settings.
- [MAP02] Added an additional chaingun at the start.
- [MAP02] Changed Par Time to 9:30.

 

 

NTP_Di5M_v105.zip

Edited April 11, 2022 by Stabbey
updated version

[Clippy]

This is longest vid I've done in some time. But overall fun experience, just a tad long winded. You can tell from all the testing and stiff above it's refined well. I didn't detect any bugs 

 

The first part played well and I was on my A game til I made it to mancubus lift land. The only part of map that kind of stalled for me and felt like a chore. The rest ramps up well and each and every fight that followed was surprising, interesting and engaging 

 

Overall fun challenging experience that didn't actually feel as long as it was 

 

Good times I may return for the other map Down the road 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2024 by Clippy

[Stabbey]

4 hours ago, Clippy said:

This is longest vid I've done in some time. But overall fun experience, just a tad long winded. You can tell from all the testing and stiff above it's refined well. I didn't detect any bugs 

 

The first part played well and I was on my A game til I made it to mancubus lift land. The only part of map that kind of stalled for me and felt like a chore. The rest ramps up well and each and every fight that followed was surprising, interesting and engaging 

 

Overall fun challenging experience that didn't actually feel as long as it was 

 

Good times I may return for the other map Down the road 

 

 

Thanks for the playtest. Some additional information and comments on your feedback.

 

Starting area

• Spoiler

   

  • A lot of people missed that Berserk secret at the start. That one has two or three tells. One is a line on the automap, another is the lack of palette under that stack of boxes (it’s different), and the third is the different texture). I put that in mostly for health if the starting room wears players out too much.
  • I admit that I didn’t really test the map for “alerting the enemies and staying in the starting room,” but I figured that providing no resources in the room was a good enough hint to enter the main chamber. Good to see that it still worked out.
  • The chaingunners at the ends of the long stairs are more there to slightly discourage players from going that way instead of staying in the main room. They’re not intended to be dangerous, so dropping into the trench is fine.
  • The three Pain Elementals are in the room to force players to engage in combat at least a little. Without them, the players just can run in circles and let the enemies kill each other, which is boring.
  • The colors on the arena teleports just tell you which corner the teleport sends you to, although I suppose it doesn’t matter much. They just send you to the opposite side.

   

   

 

East and West wings

• Spoiler

   

  • “(Getting the blue key) didn’t come with death.” – It’s a good idea to vary up the traps and triggers. Sometimes the fight comes before you get the key, other times after. Mix things up. In this case, Blue key – trap comes before, Red key – delayed trap, Yellow Key, trap comes immediately, plus two later traps. It’s gradually ramping up the difficulty.
  • Arachnotrons are best suited in areas with long sight-lines, so I designed the long room as a showcase for handling them.
  • A secret soulsphere was visible from where the blue key was, but you seem to have missed spotting it.
  • Sorry you didn’t like the Mancubus fight. I wanted to try something a little interesting and yes a little uncomfortable and I guess it wasn’t to your taste. Even so, I don’t think I’m going to change it much. If it’s any consolation, I did blow myself up a lot with rockets in testing, but I considered that part of the challenge, although it is safer if you have cells. I did make sure to provide ledges to stand on while waiting for the lifts for those who fall in.
  • Another secret became available after a certain action.
  • Naturally, the trap after the red key is a WR line combined with control sectors.
  • After you get a key, new cacodemons appear beside the doors you should go into next, it’s an attempt to draw the player that way.

   

   

South wing and finale

• Spoiler

   

  • “Nukage Treatment Pools” isn’t attempting to emulate the style of “Waste Tunnels,” but to be a different take on the name “Waste Tunnels.” In this case, it’s a facility for moving around, dealing with, and storing the spaceport’s toxic waste.
  • The “devious” airlock switch opening up additional monster closets was fun to figure out. Normally, hidden doors will always make an opening sound, but it turns out that if the ceiling on both sides of the door is level with the floor, a door won’t make a sound, probably because it can’t open at all. So just a thin sector of wall on both sides of a fake door and suddenly it changes into a surprise trap. I do indeed try different things and see how they play out and make changes if I feel they're needed. That's why the floor drops out in front of the red key door, so players can't cheese the fight by fleeing. (I wanted to use different lock-ins, rather than the same kind over and over.)
  • The writing on the floor is to attempt to alleviate “what does this switch do” and some switches are for “world-building,” such as the Pool Door Close one, in case the door was left open and flooded with nukage. The “Door Open” with the arrow is because in co-op play, it could be possible for players to get trapped behind those doors, so it’s to open them from the inside. The “Lift” label is there because the switch was visible before the lift was available to use. In retrospect, though, I should have just closed off the switch and opened it after you got the yellow key.
  • Yeah, sorry, that ledge overlooking where the yellow key was isn’t a secret. I did put an exit out of the pool just in case you get blasted in, but there’s no reason otherwise to go in. I had to close that ledge off because the map would break if players could get into the pool before draining it. Perhaps
  • Originally, I built it so you needed to hit all three switches to get out, but I decided that was pointless. If you can get to any of the switches, the fight can be beaten quickly, so needing it hit all three was just a waste of time. I changed it before any players got their hands on it to allow any of the three switches opens the bars. Unfortunately, the playtests I’ve seen assume you need to hit all three. I’m not really sure how to make those switches more obvious. Maybe I could have a bar in the back which lowers, but that still probably wouldn’t have solved the “all three switches” part of the mentality. EDIT: Or maybe I could put arrows on the map which get revealed once you can get into those bars, I don't know.

   

   

 

Good stuff, very informative. I think there's not a whole lot I would change for another version, maybe just cleaning up something.

Edited April 4, 2024 by Stabbey
idea

[Clippy]

This level felt scary and I thought I would be suffering but I got through it, I mean with some save action. Sorry I am not brave enough to spend all day trying to live saveless for 5 minutes like that. I got other things to play

 

But yeah interesting premise, just not sure it needed to be FIVE ENTIRE MINUTES lol - seems like excessively long run time on this scenario 

 

other intriguing stuff along the way too, that taco bell explosion toilet for example - decent fights etc

 

Would hate to be the guy fighting down those stairs without freelook eh

 

Overall nice fast action and quicker map, good stuff