How to make a filler map?

[Nefelibeta]

Thank you very much.

[Dusty_Rhodes]

Why would you want a filler map? Why not trim the fat of a wad? A lot of people prefer 6 great maps to 32 of varying quality. 

 

But if you insist, look at Hell Revealed Map04. Textbook filler, easy, short, looks just good enough. Just do something simple really. 

[mrthejoshmon]

• Basic design, tried and tested
• Short(ish) length
• No hard lean on a gimmick
• Does The Job(tm)
• Can fit into any wad and not be noticed
• Not bad, not great

Making filler is not a high crime, it can be good practice.

[thiccyosh]

Have you ever played Map20 in Doom 2? Yeah, yeah.

[esselfortium]

12 minutes ago, thiccyosh said:

Have you ever played Map20 in Doom 2? Yeah, yeah.

How on earth is Gotcha! a filler map? Why would you make like 60% of the map be optional areas if you're just trying to fill a slot quickly?

[Hitboi]

26 minutes ago, thiccyosh said:

Have you ever played Map20 in Doom 2? Yeah, yeah.

Map20 is not a filler map, it's one of my favourite Doom II maps and I find it very memorable.
Contains 7 secrets, has a par of 2 minutes and a half and uses an awsome music track, do you think it's filler?

Edited February 12, 2022 by Hitboi

[Mr.Rocket]

I'd do something like a large warehouse area or something to that nature where there's not really much to explore or to do but make it from one end to the other.

[thiccyosh]

13 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

How on earth is Gotcha! a filler map?

 

3 minutes ago, Hitboi said:

Map20 is not a filler map

 

A Doomworld user has a different opinion on a map made by Romero? Heresy!

 

Sarcasm aside, I honestly think Map20 gets overshadowed by most other Doom 2 maps in terms of visuals, atmosphere and action and absolutely is a filler in my opinion. After the Cyberdemon and Mastermind battle, Map20 turns into aimless mode. It throws some enemies (especially Pain Elementals) around and maybe some secrets here and there & after 10 or so minutes it's over. The hidden BFG doesn't make this map any better as you also get enough cells to kill every meatball and Archie you can find there. Everytime I played Map20 I've felt less the need of replaying it again. I think other open maps like Map10, Map15 and even Map24 (Map19 doesn't count) are a better example of letting the player explore the map and uncovering its secrets and optional areas without holding their hand for the whole map.

 

 

[cannonball]

Filler maps…. In its derogatory sense a phrase that could go into the “Terms I want to erase from existence” list in my opinion.

Filler maps are the potatoes to your prime cut steak, the rice to your lamb jalfrezi. They may not be flash, but they are as much a positive part of your megawad as your Misri haleks etc.

Given how historically megawads have tended to be 30+2 maps long, then getting the overall pacing right is important. Whilst the likes of Misri Halek are awesome, having an entire megawad of maps like that would be exhausting, even playing by the DWMC rules (one map roughly per day). Filler maps break up the longer maps (generally short, coming in at sub 10 minutes and competently made). 

I do understand the concept of just making a short episodic release though, for example Counterattack works really well being a 5 map (+2 secret maps) wad. Still solid, short and well designed maps have their place, and historically entire megawads of them have tended to be very well recieved.

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by cannonball

[msx2plus]

don't - make every map worth playing, whether it be for combat or atmosphere. give the player "breaks" but don't make it meaningless. not every map has to be better than the last, they just all need to do what they need to do. don't bloat it.

Edited February 12, 2022 by msx2plus

[Kinsie]

Start a Patreon or Ko-Fi or whatever and map solely for the money. You'll have plenty of filler maps on your hands in no time!

[RHhe82]

The question is curiously worded, but I would kind of want to be able to do the same. What I mean by this - I don't know if Nefelibeta had the same idea - is that whenever I'd map, I get ambitious and start making cacoaward winner map. Which would be fine and dandy, but I have very little experience as a mapper, and so my projects end up failing. It either happens in the very beginning when I have square room or two with startan textures (map gets thrown in the recycle bin), or later in the level where I run into some dead end and don't know how to carry on. In the best case scenario I just slap together some low-effort ending and be done with it.

 

Then I play some wads and dream of making a simple map that's quick enough to do and is fun to play. It wouldn't win any awards, but it'd be a decent map, vanilla-loving players would like it enough, and it would teach me skills to actually finish the A+ maps I dream of being able to make.

[msx2plus]

1 hour ago, cannonball said:

Filler maps are the potatoes to your prime cut steak, the rice to your lamb jalfrezi. They may not be flash, but they are as much a positive part of your megawad as your Misri haleks etc.

yeah i feel like we could probably use a better word for this type of map; side dish? appetizer? something like that, hahaha - in that case especially, what i said stands. don't worry about making something "bigger" or "better". that's the downfall of anything like this - your main course has that covered already! just have some fun. no expectations, throw down some shapes and dudes and see what happens. lots of sides and snacks aren't particularly pretty or complicated, but in there lies some of their appeal.

 

you have a little of it, want some more, and the main dish arrives to sate that hunger.

[Not Jabba]

2 hours ago, cannonball said:

Filler maps…. In its derogatory sense a phrase that could go into the “Terms I want to erase from existence” list in my opinion.

Filler maps are the potatoes to your prime cut steak, the rice to your lamb jalfrezi. They may not be flash, but they are as much a positive part of your megawad as your Misri haleks etc.

Given how historically megawads have tended to be 30+2 maps long, then getting the overall pacing right is important. Whilst the likes of Misri Halek are awesome, having an entire megawad of maps like that would be exhausting, even playing by the DWMC rules (one map roughly per day). Filler maps break up the longer maps (generally short, coming in at sub 10 minutes and competently made). 

 

The term I use is "pacer maps," and I think that gets the point across better. They aren't there to fill space, they're there to provide a varied sense of pacing throughout the megawad, to build up to or come down from or provide contrast to the impact of bigger, grander maps. I think the right question is more like "how can I make meaningful small/light maps that fit around the big/heavy maps in a way that makes the whole set flow well?"

 

It's not just about size or simplicity or easy vs. hard, either. A lot of times, those smaller pacer maps are the best place for left-field gimmickry ("this is the map full of barrels," "this is the map where every floor is damaging," "this is the map where you travel through time and visit the same little area in four different states of decay," "this is the tight boss arena with nothing but Mancubi and Arachnotrons," etc.)

[Nefelibeta]

What do you guys think of magnum opuses then. Will you mind them if there isn't any switch-hunt and are filled with somewhat difficult encounters? And how many of them is too much?

 

Probably off topic crap but do you usually mind sudden difficulty spikes? I mean I enjoy making and playing hard stuff but some people probably don't. I'm considering turning HMP into the default difficulty instead, but you know, difficulty spikes are still going to be there. Will you rage quit if the episode ender of E1 suddenly becomes a lot tougher or the last few maps of the set are incredibly harsh?

[ReaperAA]

14 hours ago, esselfortium said:

How on earth is Gotcha! a filler map? Why would you make like 60% of the map be optional areas if you're just trying to fill a slot quickly?

 

To be fair, I always found the map, other than the SMM vs Cyberdemon showdown, to be a very forgettable map. I find that map to be easily Romero's weakest map.

 

To answer OPs question, I would suggest to not make filler maps at all, unless the non filler maps are big and exhausting. In that case, the fillers maps should be short to provide a break to the players.

[Nefelibeta]

6 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

To answer OPs question, I would suggest to not make filler maps at all, unless the non filler maps are big and exhausting. In that case, the fillers maps should be short to provide a break to the players.

Betcha wonder what do I got in my hands. :D

Spoiler

 

[gwain]

the correct awnser to making a filler map is dun dun dun wait for it dun dun 

dudududududun   

 

 

Spoiler

don't do it

 

 

[ReaperAA]

17 minutes ago, Nefelibeta said:

Betcha wonder what do I got in my hands. :D

  Hide contents

 

 

If that is what most of your non-filler maps are like, then definitely make filler maps. And make them short with less monsters and less completion time..

[Yumheart]

I'd recommend you don't make a filler map at all, though I guess that depends on your definition of "filler". You can, however make a map that takes little time to beat without skimping on combat, design, etc. Having some small, breezy maps will definitely help the pacing of your wad, I think BourgDM is a good example for short, relatively easy maps that still don't feel thrown together.

[azerty]

Maybe try using one area as much as possible to avoid spending time on making a lot of rooms.

[Nine Inch Heels]

At this point I am a bit confused when it comes to what this thread even is about, because it's jumping from filler maps, to magnum opuses, and then lands somewhere in the ballpark of difficulty spikes...

 

What is it that you actually want to know..? Do you expect to get some "by the books formula" for megaWADs out of this - what's the idea here..?

 

What even is a filler map, in your mind? Everything is contextual from my point of view. If most of your maps take more than 30 minutes to beat, then a filler could be a map that would take 5-10 minutes to beat, and all that irrespective of gimmicks or monster count...

 

You also need to consider that filler maps serve different purposes depending on where you put them in the WAD - more specifically, between what types of maps they are located. Do you have 2 hyper-lethal maps you want to separate? Okay, then you may want to come up with a map that allows players to take a breather. Do you have 2 gimmick maps where you want to have a "spacer" between? Why not make a filler that introduces the gimmick of the following map in a very toned-down fashion, so players can warm up to the idea before they go into the "exam"? Do you have maps which are so visually distinct that you think it doesn't make sense to put them right next to each other in the WAD? Why not make a small map that aims to go for something like a transition between visual styles?

 

I'm with some of the others here in that I don't like the term "filler" when it's used as though the map that was being discussed was somehow "a whole lot of no decent ideas given shape", but no matter what the damn thing is called at the end of the day, there is a way to make these supposed "fillers" serve a purpose within the sequence of maps you present players with - whichever purpose that may be depends on what you think needs to be "spaced apart", and how to best go about in order to make that filler be more than the sum of its parts... And we can't help you with that, because we don't know what you actually have on your hands already, much less where you are headed with it going forward...

 

So there really is no wax-on-wax-off formula for how to "compose" your WAD...

 

 

And what about magnum opuses? Some people like large maps, some people don't. That being said >1,000 monsters doesn't make something "magnum opus material", and less than 500 monsters doesn't mean something can't be magnum opus material. The same goes for switch hunts or what have you. There is no "amount of X instances of Y in map Z (dis)qualifies map Z for the magnum-opus-tier". It's just not how this works.

 

Is "Miasma" a magnum opus map..? Sure is. At about 1,300-ish monsters, somewhere between 25 and 30 minutes of play-time for a pre-routed UVmax, lots of optional areas with high variance in terms of encounters and their respective difficulties, plenty of switches to use but very little in the way "switch hunts", and several visual themes tied together by the colour green, it sure checks out as a magnum opus.

 

That doesn't mean it's the benchmark for how a magnum opus should be done. It's quintessentially a very well-made, diverse, and large map - there's myriad ways to make maps that check those boxes, and you could probably even make one without using any switches - or even any monsters - at all... You can't quantify this... In fact, "magnum opus" is something like an honorary title people will ascribe to any one of your your maps if they think it is deserving of it to begin with.

 

 

Difficulty spikes are fair game, some people mind them, some people don't... Depends on the individual, and their respective tolerance for "funstration"...

[Stabbey]

18 hours ago, Nefelibeta said:

What do you guys think of magnum opuses then. Will you mind them if there isn't any switch-hunt and are filled with somewhat difficult encounters? And how many of them is too much?

 

I think the key thing is to have a theme and stick to it. I just released a new two-map set which was originally intended to be a replacement for The Waste Tunnels and The Crusher. (I originally came up with the ideas back before I knew how to change the default names of the maps, but I'm sticking with that concept anyway becaue it helps give structure to the concept.)

 

My goal for the Waste Tunnels replacement was to make a map which conveyed the idea without being a dark, cramped, slog through sewers. That one ended up being a standard Hub + 3 map. It is highly linear and should take about 40-50 minutes to complete.

 

My goal for the Crusher replacement was to make the Crusher the main focus, and the biggest thing I could think of to do that was to put the player inside one for the majority of the map. To that end, I also decided that there would be no puzzles and no keys. This one is also highly linear and should take 10-15 minutes to beat.

 

My "Tricks and Traps" replacement is a hub with 8 doors, four of which are optional and four required. Many people think it's overly large, and they probably have a point. For the next map, a replacement for "The Pit", my design goal for that map is no switches, no keys, and no doors, and also to have it be beaten starting with a pistol and under 10% health, although I haven't started design work on it.

 

Just have a theme or design goal in mind. If you want to keep it simple, then do so, just make it a high-quality simple.