Valiant is FANTASTIC!

[Kinsie]

Thanks for sticking around, Dario! It's been great to see your thoughts and commentary.

 

I've avoided mentioning your dayjob on account of you probably getting enough of that crap everywhere else on the internet, but since you've mentioned it and you're exploring our output, I'd definitely be curious about deeper thoughts on the sort of design you've seen in modern Doom mapsets like Valiant and Sunlust as filtered through the lens of your career in AAA FPS games. They've evolved to a very different style of level design through their own unique necessities like elaborate storytelling and large budgets, and the developer commentaries on the games you've worked on have shown some fascinating insight on using environment, lighting etc. to guide the player(s), among other things. I have no idea how much of that stuff we've subconsciously adapted into our own hobbyist tinkerings with ancient technology, and how much we've rebelled against it. It'd be pretty cool to get a professional perspective on our weird little world!

 

Also, yeah, Ancient Aliens is great! If you liked Valiant, definitely give it a shot. You might also be interested in all the crazy stuff the Quake 1 scene's been up to - the brush jockeys have been pretty busy in recent years!

[El Juancho]

6 hours ago, DCasali said:

I'm sad to hear that your fear of working under someone else's direction prevented you from pursuing games as a career. You clearly have the aptitude and passion for it. At Valve you never have to worry about that.

👀?

[ReaperAA]

@DCasali, just in case no one mentioned this. If you are going to play Ancient Aliens next, make sure to set compatibility level (-complevel) to 9 or Boom

 

Also if want to find out more about great Doom wads, there is this channel by MtPain27 where he reviews various Doom wads, both well known ones and not so known wads.

https://www.youtube.com/c/MtPain27/videos

[Gregor]

22 hours ago, DCasali said:

Is Ancient Aliens as good as Valiant? Is anything else this good? I had way more fun playing this than I did Doom Eternal.

Ancient Aliens is certainly a great wad in its own right. But it's quite different from Valiant in that it's much more uniform in both aesthetics and gameplay. Eviternity is more similar to Valiant in terms of differently themed episodes and on a similar level as Valiant in terms of quality. Scythe 2 is also an obvious recommendation, one of the most influential megawads ever that both Valiant and Eviternity took major inspiration from.

But if you want something that moves beyond Valiant then look no further than skillsaw's own recent Heartland. It's in every aspect as much of an achievement as Valiant only much shorter unfortunately.

[Aaron Blain]

19 hours ago, skillsaw said:

I've always been afraid that working professionally under someone else's creative direction would take away from my passion/drive.

Myst creator Rand Miller's comments on the failure of Myst Online are quite telling:

 

"Miller appeared shocked by Uru Live's ultimate failure, as reflected in his letter to the Uru Live community, which he wrote to explain why the game had to be shut down for an indefinite amount of time. In a previous interview, Miller had stated that finance from outside investment, not technology, was the reason for the failed project: "I think the biggest failure was running out of money, and thus running out of time, and thus losing control of our own destiny. No matter what promises are made or common goals are agreed upon, whoever pays the bills has the final say." "

 

Valiant more than anything else made me realize that the products of the Doom community interest me more than commercial action games, and I think this is why.

 

We're starting to see more cooperatively-owned tech companies, so maybe this will spread to videogames at some point. Until then, it's going to be hobbyists and small indie devs who can genuinely own their work instead of being forced to maximize shareholder value.

[Gez]

14 hours ago, DCasali said:

Hmm, I'm not sure you want to watch my map 07 playthrough :) 

You didn't figure out the map's gimmick! Despite noticing the texture hint. "No dead fatties" indeed.

 

Once you cross the yellow door, there's a switch that changes the "no dead mancubus" texture to a "yes dead mancubus" texture. It triggers a crusher that kills all the arch-viles. At this point it's safe to kill the fatso.

 

Keep in mind if you go through Ancient Aliens that the first several maps in AA are basically variants of this gimmick. Not the exact same setup of course (it only works on the MAP07 slot) but the basic idea that there is one annoying monster that's placed in in a central position so that it can harass you throughout most of the map, and you just have to Deal With It because you can't afford to just kill it first. If you play by the map's rule and play under the pressure of that monster while dealing with the rest, at the end you're rewarded by a cheap and convenient way to kill your nemesis for that level, by crusher or telefragging.

 

It also has my all-time favorite hint texture:

 

[Teo Slayer]

Agreed

[Borg]

20 hours ago, DCasali said:

 

Hmm, I'm not sure you want to watch my map 07 playthrough :) 

 

 

I watched Decino play that map on a blind playthrough with no saves on UV. Only mistake was he didn't hit the switch after the yellow door so he didn't get 100% kills. I can barely beat it after several playthroughs but no way without saves. I don't know where Decino rates on the Doom God scale but I think I know where it puts me.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Borg
Misused the quote feature

[Zaxxon]

3 hours ago, Borg said:

I don't know where Decino rates on the Doom God scale but I think I know where it puts me.

 

I can tell you where he rates... He's average at best. Now don't get me wrong, he is a good player, but he doesn't play blind, even if it says so in the title of his videos. I also find it odd that he doesn't stream... of course, that's his choice to make. He sticks to the working formula of pre-recorded videos, where he memorizes the ins and outs of the maps he plays and then uploads his best attempts, to fool people like you into worshiping him as one of the "Doom Gods". Let's see him stream blind runs, and then we can talk how much of a God he is :D

Edited February 22, 2022 by Zaxxon

[Pseudonaut]

3 minutes ago, Zaxxon said:

He's average at best.

No one who beats nochance saveless on UV is merely average.

 

4 minutes ago, Zaxxon said:

but he doesn't play blind, even if it says so in the title of his videos.

Sometimes he beats maps blind, sometimes he does heavily practiced runs. It's pretty easy to tell one from another.

 

8 minutes ago, Zaxxon said:

He sticks to the working formula of pre-recorded videos, where he memorizes the ins and outs of the maps he plays and then uploads his best attempts

Just like every speedrunner, including the most widely-known "Doomgods". I'm not saying decino is one, but this is quite a strange objection.

[TeK (⌐■_■)]

34 minutes ago, Zaxxon said:

 

I also find it odd that he doesn't stream... of course, that's his choice to make.

 

He has streamed on youtube before. I also think he streams practicing maps for people who are patrons/youtube members.

[ReaperAA]

1 hour ago, Zaxxon said:

worshiping him as one of the "Doom Gods".

 

You are right in this part that Decino isn't a "Doom God". There are players that are far better than him like Zero-Master, Daerik, Nevanos, Ancalagon, Killer5 etc.

 

But calling him an "average" player is massively downplaying his skills. I don't see an average Doom player beating stuff like No Chance, all Sunlust maps, Stardate 20X6, some Italo Doom maps etc. on UV saveless, even with a lot of practice.

 

And in Valiant's case, he played through all of the maps (except map31) without practicing. Sometimes he would beat the maps on first try, sometimes he ended up dying a couple times before winning, and sometimes he spent almost half the time finding a secret that he missed.

Edited February 22, 2022 by ReaperAA

[Kinsie]

I think there are better threads for endlessly relitigating whether or not Unrelated YouTube Man is good at Devil Shoot.

[dew]

3 hours ago, Kinsie said:

I think there are better threads for endlessly relitigating whether or not Unrelated YouTube Man is good at Devil Shoot.

My YouTube Husbando is better than yours!

[Borg]

On 2/21/2022 at 9:22 PM, Zaxxon said:

 

I can tell you where he rates... He's average at best. Now don't get me wrong, he is a good player, but he doesn't play blind, even if it says so in the title of his videos. I also find it odd that he doesn't stream... of course, that's his choice to make. He sticks to the working formula of pre-recorded videos, where he memorizes the ins and outs of the maps he plays and then uploads his best attempts, to fool people like you into worshiping him as one of the "Doom Gods". Let's see him stream blind runs, and then we can talk how much of a God he is :D

Wow! Some bitterness in there.

First of all, I never said he was a Doom God. Second, what are people like me? Third, I don't worship anybody or anything.

Where do you get your info about Decino being a liar about his YT playthroughs? Honest question.

[Silhouette 03]

3 minutes ago, Borg said:

Wow! Some bitterness in there.

First of all, I never said he was a Doom God. Second, what are people like me? Third, I don't worship anybody or anything.

Where do you get your info about Decino being a liar about his YT playthroughs? Honest question.

 I think it's best to ignore him. He's obviously salty about.. something. Best not to derail this thread further.

[Borg]

1 hour ago, Silent Wolf said:

 I think it's best to ignore him. He's obviously salty about.. something. Best not to derail this thread further.

You're right. NFM

[valkiriforce]

It's been fun watching your reactions to Valiant - I'm definitely curious what you'll think of Ancient Aliens. I always look forward to your uploads!

[ReaperAA]

9 minutes ago, valkiriforce said:

It's been fun watching your reactions to Valiant - I'm definitely curious what you'll think of Ancient Aliens. I always look forward to your uploads!

 

Really excited to see how Dario would react to the very first monster he encounters on the first map. :D

[Jacek Bourne]

Valiant is one of two megawads I’d consider the best created for mainstream doom. It tends to focus on the easier side of combat which more people can enjoy.

Sunlust is the other which focuses on more difficult scenarios.

 

Both are extremely well designed and widely enjoyable for their respective audiences.

[Captain Ventris]

Valiant is one of my top five user-created anythings for Doom. Absolutely killer.

[DSC]

On 2/20/2022 at 8:59 PM, DCasali said:

I usually hate having the music on because I mostly don't like video game music

I can feel the entirety of Reddit shake and tremble at the sound of those words... And that makes me happy.

 

Seriously now, gratuitous shaming of Reddit we all love to do myself included put aside, I do believe video game music is very unfairly and even stupidly treated by some of the people on the mainstream, and it does deserve recognition and praise. That being said, I do find weird how some hardcore gamers out there worship it as better than every single non-gaming music ever made...

[Zaxxon]

A game without good music is like a movie with no soundtrack...

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Rudolph]

On 2/20/2022 at 3:59 PM, DCasali said:

(I usually hate having the music on because I mostly don't like video game music)

Really? That is a fascinating admission, coming from a video game developer! No judgement of course, I just find it unexpected.

 

Is that the reason why Plutonia's soundtrack ended up featuring no new music, unlike TNT Evilution?

Edited February 24, 2022 by Rudolph

[Gibbon]

5 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Really? That is a fascinating admission, coming from a video game developer! No judgement of course, I just find it unexpected.

 

Is that the reason why Plutonia's soundtrack ended up featuring no new music, unlike TNT Evilution?

 

I think it is more common than you think.  I also don't play Doom with music.  Playing it against Megadeth, Disturbed, Pantera etc..  is way more satisfying than midi's, or even MP3's.  A lot of video game music is just short repetitive tunes that just don't satisfy me.

[Astronomical]

On 2/21/2022 at 3:33 PM, Gez said:

Keep in mind if you go through Ancient Aliens that the first several maps in AA are basically variants of this gimmick. Not the exact same setup of course (it only works on the MAP07 slot) but the basic idea that there is one annoying monster that's placed in in a central position so that it can harass you throughout most of the map, and you just have to Deal With It because you can't afford to just kill it first. If you play by the map's rule and play under the pressure of that monster while dealing with the rest, at the end you're rewarded by a cheap and convenient way to kill your nemesis for that level, by crusher or telefragging.

 

I remember on my first playthrough of Ancient aliens shooting the 'Bad Medicine Men' not realizing that you can blow them up.  Same thing with the Mancubi on map 07 (Weird it doesn't use the dead simple mechanic at all).  

[Rudolph]

4 hours ago, Gibbon said:

I think it is more common than you think.  I also don't play Doom with music.  Playing it against Megadeth, Disturbed, Pantera etc..  is way more satisfying than midi's, or even MP3's.  A lot of video game music is just short repetitive tunes that just don't satisfy me.

I oftentimes listen to podcasts while playing Doom myself, so I am not judging there.

 

I just was not expecting a video game developer to admit that they do not like video game music. :P

[DCasali]

14 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Really? That is a fascinating admission, coming from a video game developer! No judgement of course, I just find it unexpected.

 

Is that the reason why Plutonia's soundtrack ended up featuring no new music, unlike TNT Evilution?

I should clarify a little - I love many kinds of music and I truly appreciate and respect the effort and talent it takes to write music of any kind. During the Covid lockdowns I bought a keyboard and Ableton and gave it a shot myself. It's fun, but it's also not easy! Back in the 90s I enjoyed video game music, from Doom to Dune 2, and Simcity 2000. Even back then, I'd eventually disable the music because the repetition would get to me, and I'd start to listen to CDs (remember those) while I played. Fast forward to now, that distaste for repetition as well as not often being a fan of the music itself (maybe my music tastes have changed over time, or maybe I don't like that midi sound you get in Doom?), I prefer to just have the sound effects. And one silly reason - I often have Doom idle in the background, and even with the menu engaged and the game paused, you still hear the music playing, so I'd go in and mute the music even if I'd been playing with it before hand. Then I'd just forget to unmute it when I resumed playing.

 

To your second question - Milo and I didn't have any experience writing music, instead we spent all our time building levels and making textures. 

[Cammy]

9 minutes ago, DCasali said:

Back in the 90s I enjoyed video game music, from Doom to Dune 2, and Simcity 2000.

 

I'd imagine someone must have sent this to you already, but just in case - and while video game music is a relevant topic - have you heard/played with the Plutonia MIDI Pack? It was a 2013 community project where a bunch of composers lurking around here got together and scored Plutonia with mostly-original tunes. It's very well-liked among the community, and I for one would be very interested to hear your personal take on how these tracks fit your own levels. It's been around long enough that, for most of us, it pretty much is Plutonia's soundtrack.

 

Also, if you're looking for more Doom to play - if you liked Valiant, you should try Struggle: Antaresian Legacy! It's got a similar overall design philosophy - beefed up enemies and weapons with some new custom additions, with action that's about as big, fast, and violent as it gets. It's a wonderful megawad.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Cammy

[Kute]

When I used to play diablo and Wow I'd listen to my own music.

For whatever reason, the Doom kick I've been on the last few years, I just let the maps music play. I don't understand it. I don't really like midi and BFG division is the only song from the new Dooms I like, but for some reason, I just don't put music on for FPS shooters. Maybe I'm concentrating too much and so I don't care, IDK