War in Ukraine

[Dynamo]

Apologies if a thread on the subject already exists, but I tried to look for one and couldn't find it.

 

As I would guess almost everyone is aware of by now, war has once again plagued a part of our world, this time in Ukraine in eastern Europe. Although conflict in the country has raged since 2014, the recent Russian invasion is an unprecedented jump in hostility which is seeing all major cities being bombed and scores of people being killed.

 

But I am not posting this thread so much for discussing the intricacies of the conflict - after all, I don't think most would disagree that corrupt dictatorships are awful and this is one such case complete with the invasion of another, smaller country - as I am posting it because our own small but precious community has had many Ukrainians contribute to it over the years, some of them have long been inactive, but several continue to bring us joy through their projects and modding efforts, and indeed I can safely state that the Doom scene would not be the same without them. As a result I think I speak for everyone when I say I would like to extend my heartfelt support and sympathy to @Mikolah, @Wraith777 and all the other community members that are right now facing bombs, shortages, uncertainty and the very real possibility of having to flee. Doubtless that much is on your mind right now and Doom is far from being on the list of important subjects, but if there is any type of support we can provide - be it moral, just providing an ear to confide and vent to just to take your mind off things, or perhaps even any request for a place to stay in for any willing member that lives nearby - we'd be happy to help in any way we can. In times of need solidarity is important and in the Doom community we know very well that the greatness of our scene has only been made possible by the collaboration and contributions of people from all parts of the world, and if a situation as tragic as this becomes a reality, the least we can do is let you know that we are here for you.

 

Peace be with you all, may we once again walk the long trek back home together as soon as the horrendous visage of war crumbles before us.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Dynamo

[dew]

From Ukrainian replies and Russian scoffs, it's fairly obvious no western sanctions will do anything to stop this madness. But supplying effective weapons to the defense forces might just do the trick. Keep unharmed and unbroken, friends.

[Somniac]

I've been nervously anticipating this for weeks, and now it's actually happening. The shock of it hasn't fully sunk in yet. I never thought I'd see it actually happen.

[StrangerRanger]

It's terrible how one lunatic's decision can cause the suffering of so many innocent people with families, the videos people post online of their first-hand traumatic experiences in Ukraine is absolutely terrifying. I wish the innocent people in Ukraine and Russia peace, and that inhuman war criminal responsible for all of this a painful death.

[roadworx]

i just wanna say that, while they're obviously not being bombed and shot at like the ukrainians currently are, the russian people are also gonna likely need help throughout this as well. the deaths of loved ones, the resulting sanctions, and many of them being forced to die in a war that very few people wanted is probably gonna be really rough on them. i know there's a lot of russian doomers in the community, so we're gonna wanna help them as well. pls remember that, despite the fact that they're the ones getting sent into ukraine, the russian people aren't our enemy. the majority of them hate this just as much as everyone else does; in fact, many of them are on the streets right now in anti-war protests.

 

if any of you - russian or ukrainian - need anything, please let us know. there's loads of us that wanna help in any way that we can <3

[Mr. Freeze]

Boy am I glad Trump isn't president right now. 

 

Also reports are surfacing that the Ukrainian government is cracking open weapons caches and supplying them to civilians. Clearly prepping for a long haul insurgency against whatever puppet government Putin installs. 

 

Also now would be a great time to ban cryptocurrency and claim its for sanctions. 

[out_of_service]

This is complete and total madness.

[BigBoy91]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

Boy am I glad Trump isn't president right now. 

 

Also reports are surfacing that the Ukrainian government is cracking open weapons caches and supplying them to civilians. Clearly prepping for a long haul insurgency against whatever puppet government Putin installs. 

 

Also now would be a great time to ban cryptocurrency and claim its for sanctions. 

lol

[Dark Pulse]

Sanctions are sadly not going to do much. What'd dissuade Putin is American boots going on Ukranian soil - and the US is not going to do that, because Ukraine is not a NATO member.

 

Putin is making a very simple calculation:

1. Ukraine is not a NATO member, so the US won't intervene.
2. The US does not want to get into a war with Russia, so the US will just do sanctions and beef up the NATO states, which Putin is not stupid enough to attack. (NATO members are obligated to aid one another if one is attacked.)
3. They stockpiled money for months in advance so that they could bear the brunt of sanctions. This only bites them in the ass if the sanctions and the war drag on, so Putin is going to blitzkrieg.
4. Europe needs Russian gas, and Russia in turn will get something like 40% of its money from Europe. (Even if the US stepped in to help, it couldn't completely eliminate the shortfall.)
5. Lukashenko in Belarus will roll over and let Russia use his country effectively as an extension of Russia.

Therefore, Ukraine is his.

 

I don't see how annexing and claiming Ukraine and putting way more NATO borders on your doorstep is more secure than not having the relatively smaller strip that Ukraine's border occupies is, but what do I know.

 

It's probably going to turn into a long and bloody insurgency. Ukraine, realistically, can't hold off the full Russian army - not without additional countries being willing to commit to a war, which they won't. Europe can't afford the loss of gas (though Russia also can't afford the loss of European money), and the US is not going to be going to a potential war with Russia over Ukraine.

 

Ukraine will probably come out of this in some way, shape, or form in the end. But only when Putin decides that the negatives of continuing outweigh the positives. Given how long he's played the long game with Crimea, I'd say more than likely it will be until he dies, or until Europe decides it will eat the hit and higher prices and forcibly cut him off - Russia's economy absolutely cannot afford the loss of European money.

 

Sad day for everyone in both countries, really. There are plenty of Russians who are against this silliness and of course they're already being arrested and silenced. But hey, war keeps people from asking about uncomfortable topics for the Kremlin, like Navalny.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Dark Pulse

[Skeletonpatch]

Apparently a certain Russian president is claiming that Ukraine, a country lead by a democratically elected, not to mention Jewish, president, is a hotbed for nazis in an attempt to demonize the country and justify this violence. It seems that the Russians who do support this war believe that ethnic Russians within Ukraine have been living under the threat of genocide for years, and this war is meant to 'free' them from a murderous regime.

 

Propaganda is wild, man. Of course I guess it's possible that the articles I just read might also be propaganda depending on who you ask.

 

People are dying. There is no justification for this. May the survivors piece their shattered lives together, and may the small handful of people responsible for this senseless bloodshed meet swift justice for this thoughtless campaign.

[Naarok0fkor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3ZoqGSL8FA

 

[7Mahonin]

I do not agree with Putin's actions but I am not surprised by it either. I hope for the best for the people of Ukraine and for those in Russia who did not wish for this to happen and are not responsible for Putin's madness.

[iEatYourSandwiches]

i just hope everyone makes it out ok

[GraphicBleeder]

Be glad you don't have a president who'll jump the shark at any war he sees right now, America. If the US gets involved, it's WW3.

[OniriA]

Possible scenarios:

 

A. This could escalate into something worse.

 

B. Russia just takes over the eastern provinces of Ukraine and the troops decide to dig in once more, moving the border (and frontline) further to the west, shrinking the country as a result. 

 

Both scenario's will cause lot's of casualties but A. much more so then B. logically.

 

The last thing the world needed right now coming from the clutches of a worldwide pandemic was another large war in Europe.

But alas, here we are.

Edited February 25, 2022 by OniriA

[Ludi]

The idea that members of our wonderful community could suddenly be wiped off the Earth because of a tyrant leader terrifies me. I really hope everyone makes it out okay...

[Rudolph]

For those who worry about World War III, I need you to remember that in recent years, Russia has also militarily intervened in Chechenia, Georgia, Crimea and Syria as well. Now, this is not to downplay the severity of the situation (especially for those who find themselves or have relatives in the crossfire), but we should keep things in perspective and not allow ourselves to get manipulated by sensationalistic media.

 

Also, as much as I dislike Putin, I have to disagree about him being a "lunatic"; what is he doing is unfortunately pretty much on par for the course for what we came to expect from imperialistic nations, the United States included. I do not think he has much to gain from starting another world war.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Rudolph

[Major Arlene]

Personally I'm not going to speculate about a situation that I know little about as it's not that productive- my feelings on wars in general is that they're dick-measuring contests between world leaders with little regard for the waste of human life they create. I hope that whomever is affected by this finds someplace safe to be for now and that their home is safe soon.

[BaileyTW]

1 hour ago, Skeletonpatch said:

Apparently a certain Russian president is claiming that Ukraine, a country lead by a democratically elected, not to mention Jewish, president, is a hotbed for nazis in an attempt to demonize the country and justify this violence.

And obviously whether or not that certain russian president believes this, cause the question isn't if they care cause like of course they dont, this actually makes that particular situation significantly worse. The very openly nazi militias there benefit from everyone being scared (obviously rightfully scared) and benefit from things going to shit. In the best case scenario where russia just backs the fuck off after swallowing another region again, god I fucking hope it stops there, there's going to be a lot of extremely armed nazis among a lot of people not doing well. Putin clearly doesn't give a shit about this, nobody hoping for an escalation of this conflict gives a shit about this. 

This is all bad all the way down. Hope this madness stops soon but like, this isn't the first time this exact thing has happened, and no one's got good answers to this.

[Dubbag]

Amen brother. I really hope everyone in the Ukraine and Russia and the rest of the world all pull through this together!

[Doomkid]

One thing that's been unsurprising is seeing so many media talking heads stating completely incongruent stances in one single sentence. Stuff along the lines of:

Quote

Biden is too soft on Russia, this is pathetic! Trump was way softer on Putin sure uhh but that was better when he did it, but now that it's Biden it's bad! If Trump was in there he would have been harder and softer somehow magically at the same time and it would have been AWESOME and AMERICAN and GOOD! Bald eagles and flags would fill the sky as far as the eyes could see, but as of 2020 we have a doddering old aggressive senile fool that we don't like in there, BOO. It was way better when we had our doddering old aggressive senile fool in there!!

It makes me sick that, unlike when I was a kid/teen and people largely considered it the norm to criticize leaders, there's now this vibe of "I PLAY FOR BLUE TEAM/RED TEAM so I must SLOB the KNOB of whatever stupid empty-headed, empty-suit freak they put in front of me, so long as he has either a D or an R next to his name!"

 

I know this is an America-centric view of this scenario and it has far larger, implications for Ukraine and Russia than the rest of us... my heart really does go out to the civilians who are being thrust into this shit with no say in the matter..  I'm just pretty peeved at modern-day American politics due to the fact that accountability is a shadow of a fraction of a joke, not just legally but among the general populace too.. Bleh. Due to this, my trust in anything going down smoothly and painlessly as far as America's involvement in this fiasco is pretty much nonexistent at this point.

[Dark Pulse]

41 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

One thing that's been unsurprising is seeing so many media talking heads stating completely incongruent stances in one single sentence.

Pretty sure that's only the opinion idiots at Fox "News." Trump was basically verbally fellating the guy a day before and Putin was playing him like a fiddle during his entire presidency.

 

You know what's scarier? The Trump Republicans who are trying to use this to claim Biden is "unfit" for office. Until Trump dragged politics into a literal swamp, nobody would've said that shit. Most of the posters here remember 9/11, and whether you agreed with Bush or not, you stuck behind him that day. Older members might remember Reagan getting shot, and when Reagan was going in for surgery, him joking "I hope you guys are Republicans," and the head surgeon who removed the bullet saying "Mr. President, today we are all Republicans."

 

He was a Democrat.

 

Sad that it takes national tragedy to actually unite people anymore. That's the Trump effect.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Dark Pulse

[deleted-account]

While this thread will probably close soon, and I'm not really one for politics, I'll just say both the Ukrainians and Russians involved are in my thoughts.

[Mr. Freeze]

51 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

stuff

 

And then you get shit like this:

 

Or this:

 

[roadworx]

could we please not turn this into yet another american politics thread...

[Stupid Bunny]

There are a lot of morons out there with a lot of shit takes about this war, about who is to blame and who could've prevented it and how and how y'know it's ok because everyone has done bad things and both sides and etc. etc. etc.

 

Ignore them.  This war is happening because one man wanted it.  Putin made this war.  It was entirely avoidable.  Everything justifying it is either lies or violent ahistorical nationalist nonsense.  The Ukrainian and Russian people will both suffer immensely for it.  I have spent a lot of time and have a lot of friends in both countries and there are no words to express how sickening this all is or my despair at the fact that this is only the beginning of what is likely to be a long hideous nightmare.

 

I hope the best for the Ukrainian and Russian people, that those of you here in Ukraine will be safe and that we will see the ass end of Putin and his shitty paranoid generation of Soviet goons before long.

[Lizardcommando]

What a horrible, shitty situation. Fuck Putin, fuck the oligarchs and fuck any asshole who supports Putin's invasion.

[Jastrzab Trzeci]

As always, money and power is more important than lives, freedom and independence of people.
In Poland we all are fuckin scared couse we know we will be next...
I Hope that Ukrainian people will stay strong and keep their country.
 

Spoiler

Also fuck all the alt-right russian trolls

 

[CBM]

As a european I am watching this war with disgust and fear.

I really hope Putin gets to pay for this in this life and in the afterlife.

My hearth and prayers goes out to all victims of this horrible war.

[ImproversGaming]

Just another reminder of how crappy we are as a people and planet. We all live on this shared rock together and waste so much time, energy and resource in fighting over imaginary lines that we imposed to divide us. Imagine what could be achieved by coming together as a planet and redirecting those efforts to something that can benefit the lives of so many people.

Thoughts and best wishes to all those affected and just hoping that those in charge can come to their senses quickly. One lost life is already too much.