War in Ukraine

[Redneckerz]

Hearing back from my Russian friends, they sing a similar tune - They don't want this. Like Ukraine, they just want to co-exist together.

 

Protests are getting swindled, so its rather obvious who wants it - not the people, but the regime.

 

Having visited Russia in 2014, even back then the subtle voice of dissent rang true - people are tired of Putin.

 

This will go in history as a terrible wrong, not as a just right.

In war, the truth always dies first.

[Old-Doomguy]

I am a Swede and I have a russian friend. Well he's been here in Sweden since he was a teenager so he's more Swedish than russian now. He does not approve of this, but he also warns about the propaganda and lies from ALL directions. Not only the Russian news may benefit from telling lies.

 

Regarding Putin: Fuck that loser.

[Misty]

I wish it never ended this way. Me as from one of Baltic countries, entire development puts me on unease. Especially, knowing how history turned out, leaving generations to deal with trauma and pain. Now, seems they decided to do this again, take Ukraine and inflict new generational trauma... In the end, civilians will be most affected, it will last years after invasive actions end. We can do better than that, but as indvidual person I feel helpless and scared for my own future. 

[Somniac]

Chernobyl captured, and a radiation spike in the area potentially caused by shelling hitting a waste storage area. 

 

Just wonderful. Wow. 

[Gibbon]

I guess one way to help is to donate to the military:

https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi

 

In Czechia, this is like Deja Vu to a lot of people still.  All talking, no helping meant Czechs had to endure 40 years of Communism, let's not make Ukraine pay the same price as Crimea by being forced to be part of something they clearly don't want.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Gibbon

[DSC]

6 hours ago, Doomkid said:

It makes me sick that, unlike when I was a kid/teen and people largely considered it the norm to criticize leaders, there's now this vibe of "I PLAY FOR BLUE TEAM/RED TEAM so I must SLOB the KNOB of whatever stupid empty-headed, empty-suit freak they put in front of me, so long as he has either a D or an R next to his name!"

Reminds me too of the tankies that support Putin purely because he's against the US. I mean, USA=bad and imperialist, so Russia=good and anti-imperialist, right? Screw nuanced takes about anything! People like them base their entire personalities around a single political ideology, and simply mindlessly follow anything they think should fall in line with their views or annoy the "enemy", critical thinking be damned. 

[Naarok0fkor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8de2W3rtZsA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftE8vr0WNus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8HdOHrc3OQ

 

[Gez]

14 minutes ago, DSC said:

Reminds me too of the tankies that support Putin purely because he's against the US. I mean, USA=bad and imperialist, so Russia=good and anti-imperialist, right? Screw nuanced takes about anything! People like them base their entire personalities around a single political ideology, and simply mindlessly follow anything they think should fall in line with their views or annoy the "enemy", critical thinking be damned. 

While it is undeniable that the USA are imperialist, one would have to be willfully blind or very stupid to think Russia and China aren't imperialist. Heck in his long (and rather revisionist) speech about the history of Ukraine he gave just before the war began in earnest, Putin insisted that Ukraine was part of the Imperial Russia and that making it a different country was an invention of Lenin... So this is explicitly about restoring the Russian Empire of the Czars.

 

In somewhat better news, courageous people in Russia are speaking out against the war. That may very well be one of the last thing they do, given how Putin and his cronies treat their dissenters.

 

[ClumsyDoomer]

From the way some of you are sticking your nose into this, it seems like you're merely abusing your spare braincells. Better save them for another day, for better circumstances

[Cacodemon345]

Putin said that they are willing to hold high-level talks with Ukraine. Zelensky said that his government isn't afraid to talk about neutral status.

 

Let's see how it goes ahead from here.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Cacodemon345

[DarkIceCyclone]

Remember, capital falling doesn't mean that resistance isn't there. It just means defeat, for time being. The fall of Ukraine is going to be the start of new war. One where unions crumble, replaced by autocratsm dictatorships, totalitarian regimes and monarchs, only for them to crumble and the humanity to continue it's downward spiral. 

 

good luck all, especially those that plan to live till the end of this century

[gwain]

this is a another fake war we've seen it in the middle east putin and biden are meat puppets we all know this but putting a fake war in mother europia is terrible what has it come to atleast its the half breed north eu instead of real pure eu

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlVLU-oGD-Y&list=PLvsYXqtYjMYfp8SUOKSgz7IzDzj778l0b&index=11

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by gwain

[Shibainumaster]

Damn, if anyone's wondering the Ukranian Nationalists (Followers of Bendera) attacked Donetsk and Lugansk first,as it happened before in Donbass (bombings,gund-downs)etc. The Nationalists were both slaughtering locals and immigrants (mostly from Belarus and Russia.There were a lot of russians in Donetsk especially). So because Russia has some control over these two parts of Ukraine, in order to calm down the Bendera's they returned fire.

[Pirx]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

While it is undeniable that the USA are imperialist, one would have to be willfully blind or very stupid to think Russia and China aren't imperialist. Heck in his long (and rather revisionist) speech about the history of Ukraine he gave just before the war began in earnest, Putin insisted that Ukraine was part of the Imperial Russia and that making it a different country was an invention of Lenin... So this is explicitly about restoring the Russian Empire of the Czars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

well, according to this picture i found on the net among all the news about the war, some people seem to see ucraine as a patchwork of land gifted by various russian leaders (the tsar, lenin, stalin, and  khrushchev) to the yellow blob which is ucraine proper according to them.

 

(edit: according to the translation on the news site i found that pic on, sorry as i've read a lot of them and i don't speak russian)

 

apparently, putin felt threatened by nato advancing right to his doorstep, and wanted to make sure ucraine doesn't become a member. 

i'm not condoning military action, i'm trying to get behind the russian reasoning for this intervention.

just as they did with georgia in 2008.

nato extending to former soviet republics seems to be too much for him.

 

whatever, i hope everyone will come to their senses and stop this.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Pirx

[Pirx]

17 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

Also now would be a great time to ban cryptocurrency and claim its for sanctions. 

 

 

the only good thing to come out of this.

[Doomdude89]

The red revolution and funding of Bolschewists were all Western bankers doing. Communism itself was created by the west. in 1933 Judea declares war on Germany by boycotting its goods all over the world. The British got scared of Germanys rising power and influence across Europe (Remember Jugoslavia? Yup got also too rich and powerful so NATO needed to bring "democracy" basically destroying the country) Nowadays the Zionists laber every Patriot as an Nazi. Cause divide and conquer still applies. An nation with native roots is always a strong nation compared to an nation that has mixed culture flooded with migrants where conflicts are unavoidable. 

And Russians always make me laugh they pretend to be such big Nazi haters but had no problem sleeping with them in the same bed when they shared Europe (Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, ofc it was secret and they dispute it) Just like the Jews dispute that there never was an agenda for dominating the world (Biden himself is an Zionist and "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is an document that can give insight why Germans actually wanted to exterminate them in the first place.

 

While the Nazis main target were the Jews

Russians themselves arent saints either. Lets not forget "Russification" in the baltic states. Where native population was swept to Russia siberia (force labor) while Russians themselves flooded those same countries with their own Russian people. Then suddenly now they can claim "they need to protect those people" they forcefully planted there to begin with. And as long as Bilderberg can make their private meetings the word "democracy" has no meaning to begin with. Its just theatre. 

[Boomdav]

Its a very sad thing to see this.My heart goes to the people in Ukraine.Even if not from there,i heard last night the sound of a explosion.

[Redneckerz]

I am sensing the notion it is better to lock this thread because i am starting to see some posts that want to wager a debate, both Pro/anti-Ukrainian and Pro/anti-Russian.

 

Lets hope for this senseless war to gain sense by ending it.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Redneckerz

[Lewonx]

That's it. I don't care, what happens to me, but Im going to stand up for Russia.

1. Ukraine since gaining independence has always had an identity crisis, with around half of it being pro-russian and half being pro-western. This is due to it's complicated history. Some parts of Ukraine were a part of Russia for centuries, some parts were a part of other countries for a long time, and some of them were Russian territories that weren't a part of Ukraine but were added to it later. Keep in mind, that neither Russian Empire, nor USSR expected Ukraine to become independent, they were simply changing borders of one of their regions.

 

After gaining independence, Ukraine was constantly switching between pro-western and pro-russian governments. This wasn't much of a problem in the 90s or early 2000s. But as tensions between Russia and the west grew, so does tensions within Ukraine. Ukraine broke 2013 when it had to chose between integrating into EU or into Eurasian Economic Union. The pro-russian president Yanukovych refused to join the EU and got overthrown by pro-western opposition (he was corrupt, but so does the people who took the power, after he ran away).

 

This led to more separatist movements in more pro-russian regions, since they felt that the Ukraine will become a part of the west, there will be no way back. Ukraine responded with force and new Ukrainian government allied itself with nationalists that started murder anyone, who are against the new government or pro-separation. Crimea being the most pro-russian region and being added to Ukraine only in 1954, had the strongest separatist movement. Russia responded by immediately taking Crimea, before bloodshed there could happen. Donbass and Lugansk weren't as lucky and the civil war started there.

 

Ukraine failed to defeat the rebels, but peace talks over the next few years lead to nowhere. Lugansk and Donbass didn't want to join Ukraine, while Ukraine won't let them go. And  recently Ukraine got a bunch of weapons from NATO and was planning to attack Donetsk and Lugansk again, so Russia had to respond.

 

2. A lot people here talk, how most of Russians don't support Putin. This is true, because around half of Russians don't support anyone, not Putin, not pro-western, not other opposition. Most Russians don't support Ukraine either. In reality around 1/3 or 1/4 of Russians support Putin, and that's still way more than anyone else. From all the people I personally know, I might be most pro-Putin, and Im pretty neutral towards him (he did save Russia from the 90s poorness and banditism, and I support his foreign policy, but he also allows rapid corruption, can't improve Russian economy now and created oppressive censorship that barely works anyway and just makes situation worse). As for people who personally know Russians that support Ukraine, remember you live in the west and are on mostly western sites, so, of course the most russians you'll encounter will be pro-western ones, even though in reality they aren't even close to being a majority.

 

3. Most accusations of russian army being psychos and destroying everything along with random civilians are bs. Russian army is so much stronger than Ukrainian, that there is no reason to use tactics like these. Russia literally has no motivation to do this.

 

4. If anyone calls this Russian propaganda, I  could just call your words Ukrainian/western propaganda.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Lewonx

[BaileyTW]

37 minutes ago, Doomdude89 said:

The red revolution and funding of Bolschewists were all Western bankers doing. Communism itself was created by the west. in 1933 Judea declares war on Germany by boycotting its goods all over the world. The British got scared of Germanys rising power and influence across Europe (Remember Jugoslavia? Yup got also too rich and powerful so NATO needed to bring "democracy" basically destroying the country) Nowadays the Zionists laber every Patriot as an Nazi. Cause divide and conquer still applies. An nation with native roots is always a strong nation compared to an nation that has mixed culture flooded with migrants where conflicts are unavoidable. 

And Russians always make me laugh they pretend to be such big Nazi haters but had no problem sleeping with them in the same bed when they shared Europe (Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, ofc it was secret and they dispute it) Just like the Jews dispute that there never was an agenda for dominating the world (Biden himself is an Zionist and "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is an document that can give insight why Germans actually wanted to exterminate them in the first place.

 

While the Nazis main target were the Jews

Russians themselves arent saints either. Lets not forget "Russification" in the baltic states. Where native population was swept to Russia siberia (force labor) while Russians themselves flooded those same countries with their own Russian people. Then suddenly now they can claim "they need to protect those people" they forcefully planted there to begin with. And as long as Bilderberg can make their private meetings the word "democracy" has no meaning to begin with. Its just theatre. 

I think this is a sign that this thread needs to be locked. Or at least have a reroll on it, because while inviting "discussion" on this will lead to THIS shit(and also normal discussion but someone's probably gonna remember batshit stuff like this more) I do think it's worth just having a thread on this because this is a very big heavy thing weighting on a lot of people and doubtless it directly affects a lot of people here.

Edited February 25, 2022 by BaileyTW

[mrthejoshmon]

5 minutes ago, Lewonx said:

That's it. I don't care, what happens to me, but Im going to stand up for Russia.

Yes, because rich and powerful bureaucrats who would gladly send you to die and supress their people really need people like you to stand up for them.

 

"Russia" does not need defending because it doesn't care about you and it doesn't care about those it kills, rules over or who it supresses.

 

Why would you even bother defending your state's image, I sure as shit wouldn't defend England and I live in that shithole. You literally have nothing to gain from it.

[Gibbon]

11 minutes ago, BaileyTW said:

I think this is a sign that this thread needs to be locked. Or at least have a reroll on it, because while inviting "discussion" on this will lead to THIS shit(and also normal discussion but someone's probably gonna remember batshit stuff like this more) I do think it's worth just having a thread on this because this is a very big heavy thing weighting on a lot of people and doubtless it directly affects a lot of people here.

Agreed.  The 12 year olds are out in force.

[ReaperAA]

51 minutes ago, Pirx said:

apparently, putin felt threatened by nato advancing right to his doorstep, and wanted to make sure ucraine doesn't become a member. 

i'm not condoning military action, i'm trying to get behind the russian reasoning for this intervention.

 

^This. While I don't defend Putin's decision, I can somewhat understand why he is doing this. Truth is, we all know what NATO's intentions are and Putin is doing this as an act of self-defense.

 

Yet most people seem to be treating this as a black and white situation with Putin being evil and NATO being the good guys.

[Doomdude89]

7 minutes ago, BaileyTW said:

I think this is a sign that this thread needs to be locked. Or at least have a reroll on it, because while inviting "discussion" on this will lead to THIS shit(and also normal discussion but someone's probably gonna remember batshit stuff like this more) I do think it's worth just having a thread on this.

Why locked? Maybe educate yourself before you start cutting tongues or better yet keep away from it when it scrapes you somehow. Why is this shit when its backed up by historic documents and events. Learn the sentence "freedom of expression" buddy you may not have it in the future where people can discuss openly but are simply silenced when snowflakes get offended.

[Cacodemon345]

It will take months to years before we can know the actual truth. Currently we are in the propaganda/disinformation stage of the war.

 

Do research well on all facts and opinions, as well as the reasons behind such opinions.

[Boomdav]

Also,its better to gather all the footage about the conflict.Who knows,some may end up deleted in the future.

[Mr. Freeze]

15 minutes ago, Doomdude89 said:

 Learn the sentence "freedom of expression" 

 

A forum moderator closing a thread isn't the same as the government silencing you. Really hoped I'd never have to say that sentence ever again but here we are. 

[Gez]

10 minutes ago, Lewonx said:

1. Ukraine since gaining independence has always had an identity crisis, with around half of it being pro-russian and half being pro-western. This is due to it's complicated history. Some parts of Ukraine were a part of Russia for centuries, some parts were a part of other countries for a long time, and some of them were Russian territories that weren't a part of Ukraine but were added to it later.

What part of the world doesn't have a complicated history? Antarctica, maybe... The relationship between Ukraine and Russia has been complicated since the Mongol invasion broke the relative cultural unity of the Kievan Rus.

 

20 minutes ago, Lewonx said:

The pro-russian president Yanukovych refused to join the EU

That's the thing people always seem to forget. He was not pro-Russian. He was pro-Europe, until he got coerced by Putin. The EU Association Agreement was initiated in 2012, under President Yanukovych. The Plan on Priority Measures for European Integration of Ukraine was decreed by President Yanukovych. Just read this:

https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/176156.html

 

It's when he did an about-face on all this that protests started. And it's when he fled that the Parliament impeached him for dereliction of duty.

[OniriA]

33 minutes ago, Lewonx said:

That's it. I don't care, what happens to me, but Im going to stand up for Russia.

 

There are no winners in war, only losers. And senseless suffering and violence.

 

Your president/tsar should know that in that bald head.

Edited February 25, 2022 by OniriA

[Jacek Nowak (jacnowak)]

It is important to remember that Putin is not only waging war using military units but there is also an information war in which thousands of paid trolls are involved, flooding the internet with Putin's propaganda.

That's why you will see "information" about "ukrainian nationalists" starting it and that kind of shit, there will also be people, which soviet propaganda always called "useful idiots" that will spread this fake information voluntarily without even being paid by Putin's propaganda machine.

Which I think it's a reason why this tread should be locked. It has been started to show support for all the victims of this act of unilateral agression of Russia on Ukraine. Let's not talk about "motives", "reasons", etc., let's be, in our thoughts and prayers, with the people in Ukraine, who just wanted to go about their lives like anyone else and yet they need to flee from bombs being thrown at them because one dictator decided that.