I'm working on a Doom manga. (First reveal)

[Man of Doom]

An unholy union of flesh and metal.
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C0qPT5oMA2Y/

 

Yet again, a dark future meets an ancient evil.

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CzDVsYMsGkc/


Inspired by both the official franchise and fanworks, this Doom manga looks to reintroduce the action-horror setting of the original game combined with a distinct cyberpunk setting.

Not only is this aiming to be a darker and more mature take on the Doom franchise, this also will be a celebration of it (and the fan community which surrounds it).


While the full reveal is being worked on, please go follow and support these artists who will be working on the art for this upcoming manga:

(GENU)
https://twitter.com/genu_uneg
https://www.instagram.com/gen_u_/

(Tatsumi)
https://twitter.com/tatsumimimi
https://www.instagram.com/tatsumimimimimi/


 

(original post, archived)

Spoiler

 

So, I haven't been around in quite some time.

Or at least, not as much as I used to be, especially over the past few years.

I know it's not necessary to provide an explanation for why I've been MIA as of late (especially over the past year or two), but I feel it's worth it to provide one.

Over the past few years, I've recently taken up cosplay as a hobby and it's been really good for me so far; I've joined entire circles of friends that I wouldn't have found otherwise.
And especially over the past year or two with how my own Doom Marine cosplay has evolved, I felt that some kind of Doom-related story could definitely go with it.

Over time, this idea started to evolve from "a standard Doom story where a Doom Slayer lookalike roflstomps all the demons around them" to "a deeply introspective look at trauma and how one can recover from it and relearn how to connect with people". And yes, there is a legit explanation as to why I chose manga as the medium in which to tell this story.

Oh yeah, so I'm writing out a Doom manga, and here's basically why I decided to even write it out in the first place in its current form.

Massive walls of text to ensue next. It's also gonna get really dark at points (as in, some of it requires a content warning), so just keep that in mind.

 

A Personal Backstory

Spoiler

I know things are going to get really sappy really quick, but I feel it's worth it to expound on a personal level why this project exists in the first place.

I also need to provide a content warning for topics like suicide (both the ideation and the act even if it's not specifics) as well as sexual assault, intimate partner abuse (sexual/physical/emotional), self-harm, and mentions of a school shooting though I again won't get into specifics. And there's the general mention of death.

To put it lightly, I expected my early adulthood to be more like my teenage years; filled with good friends and carefree times. I ended up with a rude awakening particularly in my college years; I think I can safely say that my early adulthood was… not good, to put it lightly.

My sophomore year involved the first time I ever had a falling out with a friend, which led to a pattern of self-destructive behavior that came purely of desperation to essentially replace that friend (all because I failed a class which took a toll on both my mental health and my academic standing to the point where I just felt like transferring to a different major). It even culminated in a sexual encounter that I ended up dubious of (and thankfully didn't actually happen seemingly due to divine intervention but said incident messed with me a lot more than it initially did).

Then we get to… That Year. More specifically, 2018.

For one, I was dealing with even more stress than usual, from the bog-standard stresses of increased college workload to the existential feeling of feeling more like an office stapler than an actual human being.
And then there are the stories that I feel aren't mine to tell, so I'll be concise with these.

All I can say is that more and more bad things not only kept happening to me, but also the people around me (and no, it wasn't necessarily limited to just That Year but That Year certainly had the worst of it).

(SPOILERED FOR CONTENT WARNING)

Spoiler

My immediate family had to deal with some weird thing involving broken bones (in that immediate family members would end up breaking a bone).
One friend who I had a falling out with (not the first friend I fell out with) had ended up taking their own life.
Another friend had been sexually assaulted.
It turned out I was literally just a handful of minutes from a school shooting as said shooting was happening.
I ended up becoming friends with someone who I shared a deep emotional and intellectual connection with, and we ended up opening up to each other about deeply personal things… only for that friendship to not only dissolve abruptly but also in the worst way imaginable.
Another person who I had called a friend at one point in the cosplay community had essentially gone down a really dark path in regards to Internet-based associations, to say the least. And then it turned out they had always been an extremely manipulative POS.
A close friend of mine, after dealing with an extremely abusive ex for several years, had gone public about their said ex regarding behavior that basically amounted to sexual coercion and emotional extortion, and said ex responded by essentially forcing a SLAPP suit on them that my friend continues to deal with to this day as of this writing.

And right during that sophomore year, after the falling out with that one friend, I ended up developing some really strong suicidal ideations. Not strong enough to have me form a plan, but strong enough that I would end up feeling icky for the rest of the day.
Not until That Year, when I actually started to think about how to… well, find a permanent way out.

The closest it got to feeling like That Year was last year (2021), but only because of a global pandemic in which I didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel for; the pandemic so far has essentially been an absolute masterclass in how to unlock whole new levels of despair (especially due to friends and family members passing away unexpectedly).

Lastly, I've come to find out that I haven't been as nice of a person as I used to be. I'd end up lashing out at people way more often, I ended up assuming the worst in people way more often. I was no longer the super-friendly person I used to be, and I would keep punishing myself for it even to this day (and yes, that included various forms of self-harm).

To put this bluntly: I became way more of an asshole likely as a result of That Year. And it's not a feeling that I feel particularly good about, to put it lightly.
So I would like to put myself on the therapist's couch somehow, since I am currently unable to afford therapy and I don't want any more of my friends to end up carrying that kind of burden.

Even though I've lately been working on it, it felt like for the longest time I could never show any kind of emotional vulnerability. I ended up building emotional walls to keep myself isolated from the world around me, and most of them remain up to this day.

But even though I'm not quite out of the woods just yet, I am doing much better than I used to be.

I do have good days in my life again, and I've been tirelessly working to make myself a better person.

 

Doomed Connections

Spoiler

Ever since I was five or six, I was a fan of the Doom franchise. I first discovered it through a "Doom Battlebook", and I've stuck with the franchise ever since. I sought out the main titles wherever I could, I checked out the spinoffs, I even supported as many fan efforts as possible.
Come about two decades later, and here I am. Aside from some fan works, I never actually contributed much to the Doom fan community and was more of a casual observer than anything (even if I did get more involved in the last decade).

To say that it has meant so much to me all these years would be an understatement. It got me through the good times and the bad times, it was there for me when I needed to celebrate and it was there for me when I need something to vent my frustrations.
I remember after the time I had experienced the bitter-tasting end of a romantic relationship, I booted up the game one afternoon. Normally I'd take breaks every few levels, but I only stopped once to have some lunch, and I still remember the feeling of elation and satisfaction that washed over me after beating the whole game in one sitting (a thing that's an entirely tall ask of me to do nowadays).

Aside from maybe like these deep intellectual discussions and a few memes here and there (as well as some artistic items), I feel I haven't truly contributed that much to the Doom community. I tried my hand at mapping a long while ago and got nowhere, I experimented with mods (both coding and graphics), I tried my hand at creative writing.

So there's a reason why I haven't posted as much here as I used to:
It feels like I haven't contributed much to the community, plus I really don't have the time I used to have since most of it's being spent on… well, just being an adult.

And let's just that that due to everything surrounding Doom Eternal (and to a lesser extent, a certain Doom movie), I haven't felt as proud to be part of the Doom community as I used to be.

Combine all of that, and I've lately been wondering if it's even worth it to try contributing at all or even stay a Doom fan. But I do know I want to contribute at least one big thing to Doom as a whole.

 

Doom Eternal is Both the Best and Worst Thing to Happen to the Franchise

Spoiler

Just a heads-up that this particular section is going to end up turning into a rant I desperately needed to get off my chest, so just bear with me.

After the release of Doom 2016, I was beyond stoked to see what id Software had in store for the franchise (and of course they had to follow up with a sequel considering the momentum the Doom franchise had built up just like that).

And then the game was first revealed during That Year.

Due to everything else that was going on during That Year, I found it surprisingly difficult to get hyped for Doom Eternal. Unlike 2016 where I was just chomping at the bit for every piece of info I could find leading up to the release, I found myself more passively absorbing information regarding Eternal.

I cannot stress this enough:
None of this lack of hype had anything to do on id Software's end or even the Doom community's end, I was just too preoccupied with everything else and I was only able to really bring myself to get hyped fairly close to the game's final release.
Yet, for whatever reason, I felt like some kind of weird alien for not feeling super-hyped all the way through.

On a side note, I was even worried about the franchise's trajectory given the story that was being introduced (namely with the Maykrs), but come the actual game, my fears were pretty much put to rest as the overall reaction to the game's story was essentially "well, that makes sense".

And then everything happened post-launch. From the Mick Gordon incident to the Ancient Gods discourse to what happened at The Game Awards and everything in between, it constantly felt like for the first year after the game's launch, Doom Eternal was essentially caught in what seemed like this looming cloud of constant bad news.

But in spite of all that, the Doom franchise had reached a level of relevance not even 2016 managed to achieve with all its hype of resurrecting a long-dormant franchise. Hell, Doom was no longer this bizarre retro curiosity that had more in common with Pac-Man than Super Mario Bros., being somehow "too nerdy and too niche for most people". Well, and the crossover memes with Animal Crossing definitely helped.
People who had never even heard of Doom before now wanted a piece of what everyone was talking about. Not only that, the gameplay pretty much was able to back it up in how intricately it was designed.

But then The Ancient Gods happened (more specifically, Part 2). I don't think I've ever seen a level of vitriol seen towards… anything Doom-related since maybe Doom Annihilation.
Hell, even Doom 3 at the time of release (or re-release with the BFG Edition) was largely met with memes, and the 2005 movie ended up being a guilty pleasure for many.

On top of all of that, I somehow managed to forget there was this entire backlash against Doom 2016 prior to its release, namely on how "generic" it looked, from the open multiplayer beta to how Hell (and to a lesser extent, Mars) had basically looked a dull orange.
From what I saw, the marketing wasn't 100% sure how to market the game until maybe the final trailer, and it was the strength of the campaign alone that pretty much launched 2016 into "instant classic" status.
But even with that, I still remember how so many demon designs were either changed dramatically or scrapped entirely; case in point, both the Cacodemon and the Baron of Hell both were recolored to look just like their classic counterparts when their concept art showed entirely different aesthetics (and that's not even talking about the Imp).


And without getting into too much detail (or spoilers), I am just going to say this as bluntly as I can:
Every single time I hear about some discourse about Doom Eternal, I just want to jump out of a window because I never want to hear about any discourse coming from that ever again.
Doom Eternal (and to a lesser extent, Doom Annihilation) showed me that there is so, so much evidence to the opposite that the Doom community is somehow "the most wholesome community imaginable" because I have seen quite possibly some of the WORST, most entitled fans I've ever seen outside of the Halo, Star Wars, or Metallica fandoms. Absolutely NOTHING will EVER satisfy them.

Case in point, I remember going to a Metallica concert well over a decade ago when I was barely a teenager, and I still remember this one guy who just would not clap or stand for anything that went past (or even included) …And Justice For All, as he would just sit there with his arms folded.
That's exactly what I see in so much of the Doom community.

That and there seems to be the never-ending cycle of:
*Makes new thing*
"I hate new thing; old thing better, make like old thing."
*Makes like old thing*
"New thing is rip-off of old thing, originality is dead."

Every single time I see Doom Eternal trending on Twitter (or Annihilation trending anywhere in the Doom community), it feels like I just ate a sock. I swear to god people will NEVER stop complaining about the Dark Lord or Joan Dark until the eventual heat death of the literal universe we inhabit.

This is not the fault of anyone at id or any one specific person in the Doom fan community, but rather this innate need to turn fandom into a personal and core part of one's identity to wrap EVERYTHING around which has only gotten more pervasive over the past decade, including one's personal politics.
It's gotten to the point where it feels like I have to do a sociological profile on someone before I can discuss something like The Matrix or the Terminator/Alien/Predator franchises (or at this point, literally any piece of media).

That's not even getting into the manbaby industrial complex which primarily serves to make a mountain out of a molehill over literally everything, ESPECIALLY whenever there's even a remote hint of a minority finally getting something in a piece of media. But that's a whole another topic entirely and it'll take me forever to talk about that (plus it's already taking me forever to even talk about the Doom Eternal discourse alone).

Lastly, it feels like general audiences are becoming more and more incurious people who aren't much interested in what other people think or feel, and said audiences' idea of a good time has essentially boiled down to "what if Batman met Mario?" just as long as it got them their fix of nostalgia.
"Don't work hard to make our version of art. Don't tell stories in exciting and new ways. Don't be sensitive and vulnerable. Don't kill off that character we love so much. Don't retell the same story from a new perspective. Don't do anything to rock the boat or change the status quo. Don't do anything that proves that you're more than a dirt-covered animal whose only thoughts is to eat and reproduce. Don't do any of those things because I'm here and my sheer ignorance and unwillingness to understand renders your art meaningless."

As long as people insist on being comfortably dumb, things will continue to be this way. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
And this is not an issue that's exclusive to just media consumption, but seemingly this pervasive mind-virus that's taken over every aspect of society to ensure that injustice continues to exist.

I'm tired of seeing more and more of my friends dropping like flies, either just giving in to abject despair or literally ending up as a statistic. They all deserve much, much happier and more fulfilling lives.

I am just so tired of it all, and I'm very much past the point of anger that I'm now just absolutely bewildered by everything.
And no, the status quo is not fine; how else did we even get here in the first place?

"Don’t you dare make anything sincere or deeply personal, or else we're going to call you an ego-tripping, clout-chasing fake who milks imaginary problems for pity and then we'll just assume you're just self-absorbed and whiny."
Cue the horrible canned laugh track and applause.

I think it's safe to say that the Doom Eternal discourse took a significant toll on my mental health.

On top of everything else.

 

…and now that's finally off my chest, let's talk about this new Doom project I've embarked on and why I ultimately decided for this to be a manga.

 

Why in This Format?

Spoiler

The easiest and most straightforward reason is because I'd love to see a Doom title that tackles darker and heavier topics akin to how the MachineGames Wolfenstein titles did it (without necessarily ending up with something so abjectly bleak that you ultimately stop caring about the characters). And as they say, be the change you want to see in the world.

The next most straightforward reason (and quite possibly the main reason) is that even the original Doom has always been animesque and every single incarnation of Doom has felt very anime-like (from the original Doom and Doom 64 which feels like some kind of pulpy yet ultra-violent horror OVA from the late 80s/early 90s, to Doom 3 which contains shades of that Ghost in the Shell/Appleseed aesthetic, to Doom 2016/Eternal which is essentially just a sci-fi version of Berserk except all the sexual content is replaced with even more gore).

The last and quite possibly the most important reason is because I legitimately think a project like this has a shot at doing some good in the world, to give topics like mental health a more respectful and dignified spotlight as well as do my part to give the voices of minorities a much-needed voice especially in a space like one this manga is about to inhabit.

But I'm also not going to lie to you:
This is a work that is going to come from a very dark place, emotionally speaking. For the longest time, I've been stuck in a dark place and even though I've managed to crawl out of the hole every now and then and got to enjoy the sunlight more often, sooner or later that dark place always seems to find me again.
That doesn't necessarily mean that the work is going to be this joyless, nihilistic ride through Hell itself, it just means that the story will go to some really dark places at times.

 

What to Accomplish?

Spoiler

Back during the worst days of the Doom Eternal discourse, I would sometimes joke to myself that nobody in the Doom community seems to know what they actually want out of the Doom franchise despite the premise being deceptively simple (demons and shotguns).
Then I took a step back and realized that I also had no idea what to want out of the franchise myself.

Given that Doom is such an old franchise and nearly 30 years old as of this writing, there have been many, many interpretations of the original game. Back in the day, it was seen as this borderline survival horror game but it's now being seen as this balls-to-the-wall action fest. Doom 3 went to one extreme with the survival horror aspect, whereas Doom 2016 and Eternal went to the other extreme as the action fest.
And keep in mind, these are the official versions of the original game's interpretation.

And then we have the many fan-made maps and mods for the game, which throws in so many questions.
Is the music a rock-and-roll romp or the scariest ambience possible? Do we get industrial metal or eclectic prog rock fused with smooth jazz? Do we get a sweeping orchestra or is it all guitar solos?
Are the monsters supposed to look like comic book creations or these horrific abominations? Do we fight a handful of monsters at a time or do we get to take down entire legions with nothing but a rocket launcher? Is it just the classic lineup of the Doom Marine's rogues gallery or are there more demon types out there?
Who is the protagonist supposed to be? Do we get to be an action hero like the buff dudes of the 80s and 90s, or are we something more or something less? Are we a literal demigod, a cybernetically-enhanced soldier, or just a regular civilian trying to escape?
Are we looking for an arcade-like experience, a realistic simulation of how Hell on Earth would play out, or something in between?

How is one human enough to essentially counterbalance the literal manifestation of chaos itself? And more importantly, why?

One might say that none of these questions need to exist let alone be answered, that the only question is violence and that the answer is yes.

And that could be true. Or maybe it's all true. Or none of it's true.

Maybe Doom could be more or less than just the sum of one's experiences.

I know I've just gotten all philosophical, but with this project I'd like to not only explore each and every aspect of its most basic story beats and show them in a new light (from the barebones basics to the plot twists). And then I want to break it all to pieces.

And what do I want to accomplish through all of this?

Given what was discussed, either one of two things will happen by the time the manga is finished (or possibly even before that):
I end up gaining a newfound reappreciation for Doom never before felt on that magnitude, or I decide that I've had my fun with the franchise but it's time to move on to greener pastures.

Either way, it's a decision that won't be made lightly nor will it be made immediately. I know it's one I'll have to make several years from now.

 

I know it's just a lot to read through, but if you managed to read those massive walls of text, now you know why I've decided to do a Doom manga.

But no worries if there's no desire to read the walls of text; the short of it is that a ton of really bad things in my personal life as well as extreme disillusionment with how things have been going lately with the Doom franchise has more or less prompted me to pen a manga that deconstructs (and possibly even reconstructs) the Doom franchise's premise while reevaluating my own attachment to said franchise.
That, and there's still the need to contribute at least one big thing to Doom itself.

Regarding the actual story, it's something that I'd like to keep under wraps for now, but all I can really say is that there's definitely some interesting twists on the traditional Doom stories told prior to the beginning of this millennium, and then looks to go from there. Also, it's not a remake or a reboot of the original Doom; that's all I can really say at the moment.


As for why this thread exists, I think it's safe to say that it's something that I'll be updating with news on a regular basis (be it finding an artist or the idea itself really picking up steam somewhere), just to keep everyone here updated.

More developments to come soon, hopefully sooner than later.

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Man of Doom
First reveal announced.

[Captain POLAND]

Are you Japanese? If not, call it a comic. Otherwise you're just being a weeb.

[dasho]

You said you can't afford a therapist, and I get that, but you need to find a healthier outlet than whatever this is. This is 90% a desperate cry for help and 10% treating Doom as a pseudo-religion.

Edited March 1, 2022 by dasho

[DoomBoomer]

I don't want sound ignorant or stupid, but what is the difference between a manga and a comic?

[Captain POLAND]

23 minutes ago, DoomBoomer said:

I don't want sound ignorant or stupid, but what is the difference between a manga and a comic?

 

Manga = Japanese comics. In fact, the word 'manga' literally means 'whimsical/amusing pictures', so it's literally another word for the exact same thing.

 

So unless you are

 

A. Japanese

B. Living in/first publishing your work in Japan

C. Originally publishing your work in the Japanese language

 

there is no reason to call it a manga.

 

Even if what you're making is heavily inspired by anime/manga tropes and aesthetics, that still just makes it inspired/influenced. Like the show Avatar: The Last Airbender is not an anime, but an anime-esque cartoon.

 

Sorry for the rant, but it's just a pet peeve of mine.

[MFG38]

1 hour ago, Captain POLAND said:

Manga = Japanese comics. In fact, the word 'manga' literally means 'whimsical/amusing pictures', so it's literally another word for the exact same thing.

 

So unless you are

 

A. Japanese

B. Living in/first publishing your work in Japan

C. Originally publishing your work in the Japanese language

 

there is no reason to call it a manga.

 

Manga is characterized by more than just being Japanese. You also read it "backwards" as opposed to western comics. If this comic/manga isn't going to be made in "authentic" manga style, I can understand your argument, but if it is, I personally see no reason not to call it a manga. Not to mention that your first post (you know, this one:)

7 hours ago, Captain POLAND said:

Are you Japanese? If not, call it a comic. Otherwise you're just being a weeb.

...just comes across as nitpicky and dismissive.

 

7 hours ago, dasho said:

You said you can't afford a therapist, and I get that, but you need to find a healthier outlet than whatever this is. This is 90% a desperate cry for help and 10% treating Doom as a pseudo-religion.

 

Since when is art not a healthy outlet for processing one's own general state of being?

[dasho]

16 minutes ago, MFG38 said:

Since when is art not a healthy outlet for processing one's own general state of being?

 

When somebody hasn't actually recovered from their trauma and unintentionally causes a feedback loop of negative emotion with a work like this.

 

But I'm not a professional, and this is just my opinion.

[Komenja]

9 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

Doom Eternal (and to a lesser extent, Doom Annihilation) showed me that there is so, so much evidence to the opposite that the Doom community is somehow "the most wholesome community imaginable" because I have seen quite possibly some of the WORST, most entitled fans I've ever seen

People are allowed to dislike things. I think anyone is justified in not liking something if they feel it dips in quality, or changes/removes the elements they liked, in comparison to what came before it. Have you considered that when people complain about things online, they might be doing it in hope that the creator takes their feedback into consideration, and that (hopefully) improves the final product? Of course that isn't always the case; there are always people who will just argue for argument's sake, or to amuse themselves by stirring up drama, but I think its wrong to assume that of everyone who criticizes something.

For example, you mentioned about how fans took issue with some of the art style decisions in the early trailers/screenshots for Doom '16. I can still remember the threads/post about that; the Hell areas looked like they had the same piss filter laid over them as the desert/Middle-East levels in MM shooters of the time, the Caco had very dull colors, the Imp had a grey, faceless design some thought was too similar to the Hell Knight (which I personally think is kinda cool, but I like it's final design way more), or even the fairly boring Doom 3 Imp. People also complained about the incredibly generic "render of protagonist standing with logo" box art. id/Bethesda took this feedback into account, and I'd argue the game is better for it. Like, you know how we got that sick-ass art homaging the OG Doom 1 art as an alternate reversible cover? Because in response to the criticism, they held a poll on twitter for different box art and people voted on it.

But anyways, good luck on your project. I am genuinely interested, I've seen some of the art you've gotten made for your marine character/cosplay, and its pretty cool.

[HavoX]

All I can say is, good luck. You'll need it.

[Stupid Bunny]

10 hours ago, dasho said:

You said you can't afford a therapist, and I get that, but you need to find a healthier outlet than whatever this is. This is 90% a desperate cry for help and 10% treating Doom as a pseudo-religion.

 

Eh I can think of worse ways of trying to work through trauma than this.

 

Interested to see what makes of this.  At any rate I hope it helps you come to terms with everything you've been through.

[ImproversGaming]

Sorry its been tough and I look forward to seeing what you make!

[Man of Doom]

Huh, I didn't know that this thread would blow up this fast. In the meantime, there's questions I'll be answering:

 

3 hours ago, MFG38 said:

Since when is art not a healthy outlet for processing one's own general state of being?

Yeah, that's a major thing with this project. In fact, a major influence as to why this project is even being conceptualized would be none other than Pink Floyd's The Wall.

I don't think I'm the first to say that some of the greatest art to be put out there has come from some pretty dark places.

 

11 hours ago, dasho said:

You said you can't afford a therapist, and I get that, but you need to find a healthier outlet than whatever this is. This is 90% a desperate cry for help and 10% treating Doom as a pseudo-religion.

Just to clarify, this project isn't going to necessarily be just me venting my spleen about everything that's gone wrong in my life or whatever. If anything, this has been an idea that's been gestating for at least a year so there's no way something like this would be reactionary.

As for how I've been, I'm doing much better than I used to be, and this project looks to explore my trauma and the best possible way to move on from it since it wasn't until recently that I've been able to fully process it. Not only that, I've been told that it might be time for me to move on from Doom altogether and it's been something I've been thinking about as of late, even as just a passive fan.

I mean, even though my screen name is literally Man of Doom, I haven't been like this super-hardcore fan for quite some time.

 

 

2 hours ago, Komenja said:

People are allowed to dislike things. I think anyone is justified in not liking something if they feel it dips in quality, or changes/removes the elements they liked, in comparison to what came before it. Have you considered that when people complain about things online, they might be doing it in hope that the creator takes their feedback into consideration, and that (hopefully) improves the final product? Of course that isn't always the case; there are always people who will just argue for argument's sake, or to amuse themselves by stirring up drama, but I think its wrong to assume that of everyone who criticizes something.

For example, you mentioned about how fans took issue with some of the art style decisions in the early trailers/screenshots for Doom '16. I can still remember the threads/post about that; the Hell areas looked like they had the same piss filter laid over them as the desert/Middle-East levels in MM shooters of the time, the Caco had very dull colors, the Imp had a grey, faceless design some thought was too similar to the Hell Knight (which I personally think is kinda cool, but I like it's final design way more), or even the fairly boring Doom 3 Imp. People also complained about the incredibly generic "render of protagonist standing with logo" box art. id/Bethesda took this feedback into account, and I'd argue the game is better for it. Like, you know how we got that sick-ass art homaging the OG Doom 1 art as an alternate reversible cover? Because in response to the criticism, they held a poll on twitter for different box art and people voted on it.

No worries, I totally get what you're saying: that there is legit criticism to have.

What I was referring to wasn't constructive criticism (I.E. Bethesda not really knowing how to market Doom 2016 until like the very last minute), I was referring specifically to destructive criticism: tearing something down for the sake of tearing it down to the point of performative cruelty. I didn't mean "2016's cover art doesn't look great, try an homage to the original cover art", I meant things like calling id Software "lazy devs who should just decanonize everything in Eternal and go back to the drawing board" because of how the Dark Lord boss fight was implemented.
For example with the Mick Gordon incident, constructive criticism would be something like "I think Mick should've handled this better and explicitly called out Chad Mossholder being harassed" whereas destructive criticism would be calling Mick a "clout-chasing fake who milks imaginary problems for pity" (while those exact words weren't used, I do remember that particular sentiment very much being a thing not too long after Marty's open letter).
And then there was the needlessly petty shit like actual complaints about the Slayer getting to ride a dragon (I mean, things like that are not exactly hills to die on).


Anyway, to get onto updates and where the project is at so far:
I've been seeking out an artist to tackle this project, and based off of what I'm about to see, it looks like this manga will be getting an artist sooner rather than later.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Man of Doom

[Captain POLAND]

4 hours ago, MFG38 said:

 

Manga is characterized by more than just being Japanese. You also read it "backwards" as opposed to western comics. If this comic/manga isn't going to be made in "authentic" manga style, I can understand your argument, but if it is, I personally see no reason not to call it a manga. Not to mention that your first post (you know, this one:)

 

...just comes across as nitpicky and dismissive.

 

 

The only reason it's read right to left is because it was originally in Japanese, which is written from right to left, and when translating it it would be way too much work to rearrange every individual panel so that it made sense reading it from left to right.

 

Unless you're writing it in Japanese or another language that reads from right to left, then there is absolutely no reason to make it that way, as it's just an effect of the translation process.

 

And sorry, it's just that this thing kind of annoys me.

[msx2plus]

4 hours ago, dasho said:

When somebody hasn't actually recovered from their trauma and unintentionally causes a feedback loop of negative emotion with a work like this.

this is exactly *why* you make art about traumatic experiences. it is an outlet to safely explore trauma. the chance for re-experiencing absolutely exists, but this is a way to pull it out of your head and turn it into something you can confront.

Edited March 1, 2022 by msx2plus

[dasho]

1 minute ago, msx2plus said:

this is exactly *why* you make art about traumatic experiences. it is an outlet to safely explore trauma. the chance for re-experiencing absolutely exists, but this is a way to pull it out of your head and turn it into something you can confront.

 

And some people, when hit with that confrontation, can't handle it. It's a risk, and to pretend that risk doesn't exist is an ignorant mindset.

[msx2plus]

i am no stranger to re-experiencing crippling trauma and the only thing that has made it worse than re-experiencing is avoiding anything potentially traumatic, whether it be my own thoughts or things that exist outside of myself. if you have an enticing, harmless outlet that brings you closer to comfort, use it. the real danger is the thing you're using becoming a maladaptive behavior of some kind rather than something that betters you and the world around you. all you need is self-awareness (and maybe a guiding friend that will be honest with you). know when to step back, know when to dive in, and know that you can overcome.

Edited March 1, 2022 by msx2plus

[Nikku4211]

I understand wanting to use creative expression to explore trauma, I'm not really a stranger to it myself.

 

I'm just worried it will make it harder for the creator to take constructive (yes, constructive, I'm not talking about harassment, I'm talking about real) criticism, regardless of how well-meaning the critic is, because of the work's personal ties.

 

14 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

Massive walls of text to ensue next. It's also gonna get really dark at points (as in, some of it requires a content warning), so just keep that in mind.

 

I mean, Doom has always been a gory game(even if it runs at 320x200), so it goes without saying.

 

14 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

The next most straightforward reason (and quite possibly the main reason) is that even the original Doom has always been animesque and every single incarnation of Doom has felt very anime-like (from the original Doom and Doom 64 which feels like some kind of pulpy yet ultra-violent horror OVA from the late 80s/early 90s, to Doom 3 which contains shades of that Ghost in the Shell/Appleseed aesthetic, to Doom 2016/Eternal which is essentially just a sci-fi version of Berserk except all the sexual content is replaced with even more gore).

 

What?

 

Are you sure it's not just because of the sci-fi elements and horror elements? Because sci-fi and horror are certainly popular genres for mediums other than animation or comics.

 

Doom was certainly inspired by sci-fi and horror films made in the western world, I doubt Japanese media has that much to do with it.

 

And I'm trying to ignore Doom's art style looking nothing like any Japanese comic or animation I've ever seen.

Spoiler

 

 

That being said, this is exactly why it'd be interesting to see a Doom magna, pretty much the (almost) polar opposite of how the PPGD fancomic redesigned several well-known cartoon characters. I don't even know what the Doomguy'll look like.

 

15 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

As for why this thread exists, I think it's safe to say that it's something that I'll be updating with news on a regular basis (be it finding an artist or the idea itself really picking up steam somewhere), just to keep everyone here updated.

 

I mean, if you can't find an artist, you can still make it a novel. I know we already have Doom novels, but if you stick to your plans, your novel will be novel, even if it's not graphic.

 

Either way, good luck. I wish you good luck and money.

[Goat-Avenger]

There is no doom for me beyond what was made by the real id software.  I'm not a fan of zenimax or anything they've done.  We haven't seen any of the source code released in the free and open since... Doom3?  That's no good for anyone, in my opinion; it's probably not even good for them.

 

So, from my view, there are very important reasons why, 'what is old, is better,' not just because it's what one is familiar with.  Old Doom gave us source code, which lead to source ports and tools, which lead to probably the biggest modding community ever.  From there you can explore new paths or respect tradition and just improve upon it.  So, that's my take.  People can be harsh, closed minded, etc..  But, that's life.  You'll find that most anywhere, unfortunately.

 

For me Doom isn't, 'just,' a game; but, it's still a game.  It's not necessarily a substitute for the necessities of a meaningful existence; but, I think one could potentially make it serve them in that way, under the right circumstances.  I don't care about the franchise; the legacy was sold a long time ago.  What it means to me and anyone else, is what matters, at this point. 

 

For my 2 cents, the mental health movement isn't necessarily going to save anyone, they are often part of the problem.  That's a big topic though.  That's one for the library, and some dedicated research.

 

That being said, good luck on your creative endeavors.  As they say: "where there is a will, there is a way."  Dr. Gregory P. Smith comes to mind, his story is pretty interesting and possibly quite inspiring.  Good luck.  :)

[Yumheart]

A creative project is definitely one of the best ways to come over mental health issues, and if that is your way of dealing with the situation, that's entirely valid and okay! (Even if it sounds like quite the undertaking.) I couldn't tell if mental health and Doom will work well together, but there have been weirder combinations in media that turned out good. I wish you the best of luck and hope you can make some more friends along the way.

Also have to disagree with the comments above to some extent, online help with mental health has certainly made improvements to my life, to the point where I can often say I'm doing pretty okay overall. It's true that a fair amount of anything having to do with "self-help" is really toxic, but I don't think that's a reason to dismiss that kind of stuff entirely, it can be done right.

 

16 hours ago, Captain POLAND said:

Otherwise you're just being a weeb.

 

15 hours ago, dasho said:

You said you can't afford a therapist, and I get that, but you need to find a healthier outlet than whatever this is. This is 90% a desperate cry for help and 10% treating Doom as a pseudo-religion.

I don't think these kinds of comments are helpful. Especially considering the contents in the original post, you're just being unnecessarily abrasive and not really giving any kind of constructive information or critisism.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Yumheart

[Dark Pulse]

 

If I don't see this as a cameo, I will be disappoint.

 

9 hours ago, Captain POLAND said:

 

Manga = Japanese comics. In fact, the word 'manga' literally means 'whimsical/amusing pictures', so it's literally another word for the exact same thing.

 

So unless you are

 

A. Japanese

B. Living in/first publishing your work in Japan

C. Originally publishing your work in the Japanese language

 

there is no reason to call it a manga.

 

Even if what you're making is heavily inspired by anime/manga tropes and aesthetics, that still just makes it inspired/influenced. Like the show Avatar: The Last Airbender is not an anime, but an anime-esque cartoon.

 

Sorry for the rant, but it's just a pet peeve of mine.

While I can get that sentiment, the simple fact of the matter is that most people who see a specific style will just call things that style, even if they're not from the originator of that style. Exhibit A:

 

 

That was, for the record, from something commercially produced and sold.

 

By your logic, we should be calling OEL visual novels something else, because the concept of a visual novel is a very Japanese thing, because we do not meet one of your criteria: Not Japanese, not living in/publishing it in Japan, not originally publishing it in Japanese.

 

For what it's worth, Korea has a very similar thing (manhwa); China does too (manhua). They all mean the same thing; they're all cognates linguistically, and are all derived from the original Japanese "manga." French has absorbed this sort of style too (as "manfra"). And by your logic, none of them are "legit" either, at which point you're starting to speak nonsense.

 

So needless to say, at this point, it's describing a specific style, not something that can only be done by its country of origin like it's got some kind of exclusivity.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Dark Pulse

[Goat-Avenger]

2 hours ago, Yumheart said:

A creative project is definitely one of the best ways to come over mental health issues, and if that is your way of dealing with the situation, that's entirely valid and okay! (Even if it sounds like quite the undertaking.) I couldn't tell if mental health and Doom will work well together, but there have been weirder combinations in media that turned out good. I wish you the best of luck and hope you can make some more friends along the way.

Also have to disagree with the comments above to some extent, online help with mental health has certainly made improvements to my life, to the point where I can often say I'm doing pretty okay overall. It's true that a fair amount of anything having to do with "self-help" is really toxic, but I don't think that's a reason to dismiss that kind of stuff entirely, it can be done right.

 

 

I don't think these kinds of comments are helpful. Especially considering the contents in the original post, you're just being unnecessarily abrasive and not really giving any kind of constructive information or critisism.

I'd like to point out I wasn't dismissing anything outright, quite the contrary.  If some one finds help a particular way, that's great: counselor, psychologist, self-help section, life coach, friend, etc.. etc..  What I'm speaking to is the history and the literature, as it pertains to the mental health movement: much of it quite ghastly, sinister, and on going to the present.  

 

Some people find a great deal of good in voluntary association with people who make a living in helping other's understand and improve their situation.  And that's great. 

 

That aside I second your sentiments.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Goat-Avenger

[Captain POLAND]

I know there are tons of different words in different languages for the same thing, but my point is that if you're creating it in English, then there is no reason not to use the English word.

[slugger]

Semantics are irrelevant here. The only worrying part is that it sounds like you don't have an artist in mind and you plan to figure that out later.

 

Developing a working relationship with an artist can be frustrating, expensive, and time-consuming. They will expect a clear timetable and reasonable remuneration. If your artist bails, you have to start all over. If you're friends, it might mess up the friendship. If you're strangers, it'll be even more expensive and confusing for both of you.

 

I strongly urge you to do the art yourself.

 

Even if you suck at drawing, it will be:

- more interesting for readers

- more flexible and direct (i.e. you rewrite something and need to make changes, you think up a visual and execute it instead of saving it to be executed later)

- quicker

- cheaper

 

And drawing will strengthen your skillset, which is good for your ego and health.

 

edit: Oh, you already have an artist -- rock on!

Edited March 2, 2022 by slugger

[Hawk of The Crystals]

I want to give some 'hopefully' constructive criticism. If this seems like it isn't constructive in anyway, feel free to disregard it.

 

1. I definitely recommend changing the style name from 'manga' to 'comic book'. Why? Well, mainly since it help you avoid getting unconstructive criticism - especially since fans of japanese animation--and media relating to anime in general--don't exactly have a very good reputation on the internet. But for a more important answer, it could be confusing for people who aren't used to reading japanese comic books.

Now, I obviously don't know shit about japanese media, mainly since I didn't even watch any anime or read manga until 2013. But from what I do know, most mangas are read from right to left, and top to bottom. So if you're gonna go all the way through with the "manga" plan, I recommend following those 'guidelines' - if you can even call them that.

 

2. This criticism is more of a personal opinion disguised as constructive criticism, meaning that you can basically avoid it, but I still recommend reading it for some insight from an outside source.

I don't exactly think D00M is the right series to base a derivative work of your idea off of. For one, pretty much none of the games have any real character development nor any exploration of the themes you want to explore in this comic. I can understand - and  get why you want to make this kind of work--mainly due to me having trauma from my childhood to mid-adolescent years that shaped the way I perceive media involving traumatic themes. But to get to the point, I feel like creating a completely original work with these themes would be better, but, if you wish to continue with D00M--feel free to.

 

I apologize if this post isn't all that constructive--lord knows I have troubles with conversing with people virtually--but I hope that it was some what useful. Even if it isn't in other peoples' eyes.

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Crystal-Hawk_D00M

[Man of Doom]

Since this looks to be a particular area of concern, I might as well share a couple of more reasons why this looks to be more of a manga rather than say, a novel or comic book:


As far back as the original game's release (PC-98 release and all), it seems like there was always some kind of cult following going on in Japan (and no, this isn't me being a weeb). Granted, most of what we see today is mostly relegated to places like Twitter, but it has been significant enough that we've seen projects like JPCP come to fruition.
And said following seems to have expanded with the likes of Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal, to the point where our fellow Slayer even got featured as a Mii fighter in Smash Ultimate (and I know it may not look like much at first, but the fact that so much care went into that particular aspect of the presentation should speak volumes about how Doom seems to be increasingly popular over there).

Additionally, the artist who will likely be tackling this project will be themselves Japanese. I even reached out to them a couple of times to see how they can handle things like the classic rogue's gallery of demons and the gallery they have so far looks to be impressive. And yeah, and it looks like they may actually be game to tackle the project.

Lastly, I'm not too sure a novel would be able to do justice for certain... places and entities.
Namely, Hell and how indescribable many of its inhabitants would look (think Trevor Henderson or Stephen Gammell levels of uncanny); something like that combined with more traditional manga visuals would contrast nicely and further drive home just how unspeakably alien a place like Hell can get.

As for stuff like Anime Bullshit (talking as a free action, calling one's attacks, the power of friendship, teenage protagonist, etc.), that should be something that the reader won't necessarily have to worry about. If anything, this should be much closer to something like Berserk (right down to the extreme graphic violence and the outright Lovecraftian imagery).

 

And as for one additional thing, I will be indeed doing some visual art to go with the more traditional stuff, but think less "traditional/digital drawing" and more... "analog horror/digital manipulation" aesthetic if that makes sense.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Man of Doom

[Dark Pulse]

2 hours ago, Captain POLAND said:

I know there are tons of different words in different languages for the same thing, but my point is that if you're creating it in English, then there is no reason not to use the English word.

If he's creating things in a manga/manhwa/manhua style, I see no reason he should change the name.

 

If, on the other hand, it is in a more western style, then yes, I'd agree.

[Chezza]

Why create a comic? You've already created a book.

[Nikku4211]

6 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

While I can get that sentiment, the simple fact of the matter is that most people who see a specific style will just call things that style, even if they're not from the originator of that style. Exhibit A:

 

To be fair, 'most people who see a specific style' aren't necessarily the people who are actually into said range of styles.

 

Even if a good amount of the general public would consider something a magna, that doesn't say anything about whether actual mango fans will consider it such.

 

Also, nice meme.

 

6 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

For what it's worth, Korea has a very similar thing (manhwa); China does too (manhua). They all mean the same thing; they're all cognates linguistically, and are all derived from the original Japanese "manga." French has absorbed this sort of style too (as "manfra"). And by your logic, none of them are "legit" either, at which point you're starting to speak nonsense.

 

The way people live in Korea, Taiwan, and Japan have more in common with each other than they do with France, so someone (not me, though) can make an argument based on this that considers manhwa and manhua to 'might as well be manga'.

 

4 hours ago, Captain POLAND said:

I know there are tons of different words in different languages for the same thing, but my point is that if you're creating it in English, then there is no reason not to use the English word.

 

There is one reason, actually. SEO to attract manga fans, or even people who are just casually interested in manga.

 

I'd call Japanese comics 'comics' simply because they're just comics that happen to be made in a certain specific country, despite region-specific commonalities.

 

3 hours ago, slugger said:

Even if you suck at drawing, it will be:

- more interesting for readers

- more flexible and direct (i.e. you rewrite something and need to make changes, you think up a visual and execute it instead of saving it to be executed later)

 - quicker

- cheaper

 

It takes more time than just writing a novel because one person is doing double-duty here. Sure, you won't need to spend time DMing, e-mailing or texting someone else, let alone using an online translator to copy and paste text into, but you have to still have to spend time on drawing and spend time on writing, both of which have to fit in the same schedule in the same time zone.

 

That '- cheaper' is a definite advantage though. B)

 

Your drawing skill might affect whether or not your work would be considered 'manga', though.

 

The reason I mention this is because I took a lot of different Japanese animations as inspiration when drawing, and have done so ever since kindergarten in the 2000s. Despite that, though, my art never looked at all like any Japanese animation I've ever seen, and still doesn't.

4 hours ago, slugger said:

And drawing will strengthen your skillset, which is good for your ego and health.

Good point, though.

 

I won't be sure about how the skillset will strengthen after this manga is finished, though, where there may be less art work to do.

 

And even then, doing more work on your own increases stress, which is not good for your ego or health.

 

2 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

Additionally, the artist who will likely be tackling this project will be themselves Japanese. I even reached out to them a couple of times to see how they can handle things like the classic rogue's gallery of demons and the gallery they have so far looks to be impressive. 

 

How can you be sure you will be able to adequately communicate what you want to an artist who lives in Japan? After all, the reason you wanted a comic in the first place was because of how indescribable your vision of demons is, but you need to describe a lot when working with an artist.

 

2 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

Lastly, I'm not too sure a novel would be able to do justice for certain... places and entities.
 Namely, Hell and how indescribable many of its inhabitants would look (think Trevor Henderson or Stephen Gammell levels of uncanny); something like that combined with more traditional manga visuals would contrast nicely and further drive home just how unspeakably alien a place like Hell can get.

 

How about a light novel, then? I've never actually read one, so I don't know what it's really like, but apparently it's more like one of those chapter books with pictures than a full comic.

 

2 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

As for stuff like Anime Bullshit (talking as a free action, calling one's attacks, the power of friendship, teenage protagonist, etc.), that should be something that the reader won't necessarily have to worry about.

 

But I wanted to see a little kid Doomguy realise that the power of friendship is more powerful than any BFG right as he kamehamehas a demon to bits. :(

/j

 

2 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

And as for one additional thing, I will be indeed doing some visual art to go with the more traditional stuff, but think less "traditional/digital drawing" and more... "analog horror/digital manipulation" aesthetic if that makes sense.

 

I can't wait for Mandela Doom, where Doomguy fights his own alternate.

[Man of Doom]

18 hours ago, Nikku4211 said:

How about a light novel, then? I've never actually read one, so I don't know what it's really like, but apparently it's more like one of those chapter books with pictures than a full comic.

 

18 hours ago, Nikku4211 said:

I can't wait for Mandela Doom, where Doomguy fights his own alternate.

 

Well, to (sort of) answer both questions: the particular story (or stories, I should say) is going to have a very heavy emphasis on visuals; namely, how visuals are usually depicted in order to depict either how reality might unravel before Hell's influence or the Doom Marine's mental state (or sometimes both).
Case in point, while normal visuals will just have the "standard manga" look, it's when things get increasingly distorted or glitched-out that shit starts to hit the fan (sometimes with more "semi-realistic" visuals that are in the more uncanny department).
The only other manga that I can think of that actually does this would be this horror anthology called Fuan no Tane just to give you more of an idea of what that could possibly look like.

inb4 DOOMGUY ALTERNATE WITH HYPERREALISTIC BLOOD EYES

 

20 hours ago, Nikku4211 said:

But I wanted to see a little kid Doomguy realise that the power of friendship is more powerful than any BFG right as he kamehamehas a demon to bits. :(

/j

 

hmm, maybe there might be room for some stuff like a chibi Doom Marine directly telling the reader wholesome things

 

20 hours ago, Nikku4211 said:

How can you be sure you will be able to adequately communicate what you want to an artist who lives in Japan? After all, the reason you wanted a comic in the first place was because of how indescribable your vision of demons is, but you need to describe a lot when working with an artist.

Oops, I should've clarified a bit more on that front.

I meant "indescribable" in the way that one has to see the horrific abomination and then the words are just taken out of one's mouth. As for the demons themselves, the ones that the Marine actually fights are already horrific but are pretty recognizable and are something that has already been communicated with the artist. The classic rogues gallery of demons will still be there and still pretty recognizable albeit from different titles (from classic Doom/Doom 64 to Doom 3 to Doom 2016/Eternal).
The big question that would actually be there is if I should start including demons that technically are completely new to the franchise (so basically, everything from Cherubs to Marauders are actually fair game to include in addition to the Imps and Cacodemons).

It's the demons that the Marine doesn't fight that would be the eldritch abominations that would be beyond description (and that would pretty much be a case-by-case basis). Let's just say that some of the... more ancient inhabitants of Hell would pretty much make Cthulhu look like a regular-sized bearded dragon with wings.
Not even the Unmaker (let alone the BFG9000) would be able to even slightly annoy said ancient inhabitants.

[Nikku4211]

1 hour ago, Man of Doom said:

hmm, maybe there might be room for some stuff like a chibi Doom Marine directly telling the reader wholesome things

 

Eh, probably not.

 

There's already an entire genre of animu and manga that serve a similar purpose. Something like that probably wouldn't fit Doom at all and would just be the non-horrific kind of jarring, which is part of the joke in the 1st place.

 

1 hour ago, Man of Doom said:

I meant "indescribable" in the way that one has to see the horrific abomination and then the words are just taken out of one's mouth.

Yeah, and you saw the abomination in your head and the words would have to be taken out of your mouth, else they'd be describable. :P

 

I still don't know how you'd be able to adequately communicate specific demons that Doomguy isn't capable of attacking to a Japanese artist.