The DWmegawad Club plays: Community Chest

[LadyMistDragon]

19 minutes ago, RHhe82 said:

 

This is something I meant to ask - how does CC2, CC3 and CC4 compare to CC1? I know something of CC2 thru Dean of Doom, apparently Gene Bird falls from grace there, and CC4 I have played a couple of levels and the texture pack of that origin is great. CC3 is hardly ever mentioned anywhere.

CC2 is not as annoying, and has more quality maps (besides Mucus Flow, there is Death Mountain and a few others. CC3 is generally considered to be largely quality on the other hand. I nominated it a few months ago because it genuiely seems like it could be good.

[finnks13]

20 minutes ago, RHhe82 said:

This is something I meant to ask - how does CC2, CC3 and CC4 compare to CC1? I know something of CC2 thru Dean of Doom, apparently Gene Bird falls from grace there, and CC4 I have played a couple of levels and the texture pack of that origin is great. CC3 is hardly ever mentioned anywhere.

 

CC2 is very similar to CC1, but more polished and with more customisation for the textures and music allowed - it's my favourite of the series personally as it's much more consistently good than CC1 but also much more interesting to me than CC3 and 4.

 

I played the first episode (and a few of the other notable maps that I'd heard were good) from CC3 and found it pretty bland and uninteresting, it's a perfectly solid mapset but I don't really enjoy the very generic themes and gameplay that I played. I've played a similar amount of CC4, and it's a massive step up in the visual department from the others, but I really didn't enjoy how long most of the levels were and I don't think that the gameplay was as much of an improvement over the others as the visuals were.

 

CC2 and 3 would definitely be interesting to see played by the club at some point though.

[FrancisT218]

I'm dropping my vote for AugerZenith, edited my prior post. Let's have a slaughter month! :D

Edited March 30, 2022 by FrancisT218

[Andromeda]

1 hour ago, RHhe82 said:

This is something I meant to ask - how does CC2, CC3 and CC4 compare to CC1? I know something of CC2 thru Dean of Doom, apparently Gene Bird falls from grace there, and CC4 I have played a couple of levels and the texture pack of that origin is great. CC3 is hardly ever mentioned anywhere.

I've only played CC4 and it's fantastic. On the other hand its quality also makes it very unlikely that there will ever be a CC5 in the future, since it'll be very difficult to top the latest iteration.

[valkiriforce]

While I haven't been a part of this thread's playthrough of Community Chest, I did happen to play it for the first time through the later part of last year and leading into this year, and I finished it around early February. I just wanted to say I thought MAP29 was really epic and unapologetic about its progression and enemy placement and I really enjoyed my time playing it. It took me maybe a few sittings over a few days and some hours to actually finish the map, but it was rewarding figuring everything out on my own and just absorbing the whole experience in parts. It was definitely my favorite map in the pack.

 

Ironically, the same author also made my least favorite map (MAP06) so it was kind of funny to see how it turned out with MAP29. Besides this though, I was kind of surprised I had fun playing through the first CC, since I've heard lots of bad things about it from people over the years and only played it for the first time in recent months. I guess because my expectations were so low I was actually able to enjoy it in parts. It does have some mixture of fun ideas and frustrations, but I'm glad I decided to give it a go after so long.

[kalaeth]

just as a little addenda at yesterday's map, I know which secret I missed and after finishing I actually reloaded the save, went back and 100% the secrets (it wasn't even a hard secret, it's just the lifts were already taxing on themselves  without the extra ups and downs for the secrets). As for enemies, one was the BFG mancubus, because I somehow got to grab the weapon without lowering the walls and then a few more here and there that I must have missed somehow.

 

so, now, to finish this.

MAP 30 - Evil Itself :

I don't like IoS maps.. Oh well. I do like the weapon progression steps, it's a good visual. Fully armed, I jump into the 'port and a bunch of zombiemen greet me in a round room with walls of flesh, a megasphere and a switch. Throwing it 'ports some shotgunners and opens a new switch. So I'm guessing that after the weapon progressing we are going for the monster progression? imp, chaingunner, pinkie,specter, lost soul (I was wondering if he'd have a slot for himself), caco, HK, time to switch weapon.. maybe the RL? Yeahm RL for the baron, and the manc and the rev, went with the plasma since I wasn't sure which enemy it would be after, the spider could have been dealt with the RL as well, PE with the plasma and SSG for the skulls and now we are reaching the big boys. BFG for the AV, but the damned thing was too fast ressurecting a rev and I got a rev ball to the face. Damned cyber in a small room got me even lower on health and now the final switch and presumably the SMM? It was. Done, now to go through the opening, grab another megasphere, another opening, a secret on the side, with a berseker, a invis and a circle of Romero heads on brains. and now, teleport, another area just like the start, with all the weapons again. And the icon. Oh, pretty. I like the way the fluid keeps changing as it goes up, and the fact that the actual killing of the IOS is actually quite easy.

 

 

K/I/S : 95% / 83% / 100%

time : 7:24 / 15:11:05

deaths : 0 / 40

 

And that's that! 15 hours, 40 deaths, and (according to doom launcher) 4695 kills after, it's done! (strangely enough doom launcher says I've played 31 out of 33 levels but I actually played 32 and can't find a level 33..)  In the meanwhile I started playing CC4, and it's night to day the difference in making skills between them, but I can't say I had a bad time with CC1 despite some objectively bad levels and many questionable choices along the way.

See y'all in a few days for whatever it is that won the votes! 

[Andromeda]

22 minutes ago, kalaeth said:

(strangely enough doom launcher says I've played 31 out of 33 levels but I actually played 32 and can't find a level 33..)

33 levels is probably because the wad contains two versions of MAP24, but you can only play one of them without extracting the other from the wad.

[Paf]

prboom-plus/complevel 9

 

MAP30:

I expected something more difficult, but this was really the easiest map in the wad I found. I had more trouble on MAP01 than playing this.

I liked the cool details, it was fun to play. Not much else to say, it's really short and easy.

 

[TJG1289]

I'm going to get rid of my Fragport vote and go with

 

+++Auger; Zenith & Arrival

[PeceMan]

Level 30, Evil Itself

 

    Right, positives first:

•         Aesthetics are really cool and really well built. Flesh levels are usually hideously undetailed, but this one was pretty presentable
•         The mechanics were fun and interesting. The first one, with the switches that each release a stronger
•         enemy, were really cool, and so was the final boss fight with the scattered switches, where each raised the floor a bit more
•         The final boss has an actual head, instead of being just a wall texture. And it looks badass as well.

 

    The main problem I had is that the level is underwhelmingly easy. Not just compared to map29, but to the entirety of the wad itself. 

 

    There were WAY more megaspheres than were needed. In fact, I don't think I took more than 100 total damage during my entire playthrough.

 

    The BFG is obscenely overpowered in all encounters. And you receive more than enough ammunition to spam the thing.

 

    The circle of switches, where each switch releases a new enemy, is underwhelmingly benign. It releases WAY too few enemies, which are never

    a threat. I took damage exactly once, because I didn't realise a Chaingunner had come through and didn't take cover fast enough.

 

    The final bossfight is really easy. It takes like 10 seconds to press all four switches, and after that all it takes is one BFG shot to the thing and the

    level is over.

 

    The Icon of Sin summoning monsters can be hard, at least in other levels. Here, there is more than enough space to avoid all the enemies the

    Icon of Sin summons, and the battle is over way before the Icon has had any time to spawn enough enemies to be challenging.

 

    And having the BFG in the final fight means that even if the Icon has spawned a bit more monsters than you'd like, you can get rid of like half

    of them with one BFG shot.

 

    The level is one of if not the shortest level in the wad, with the lowest ammount of enemies.

 

 

 

    Honestly, after the overwhelming challenge from map 29, map30 just makes me feel dissapointed. Don't get me wrong, map 30 is a very high

    quality map. But it is so anticlimactically easy. 

 

 

 

Ratings:

Spoiler

Five Stars:        
            02 Nullth Precinct; 18 Sudden Death

 

Four Stars:            
            04 Outer Base; 05 The Forgotten Prison; 07 The Boardwalk; 08 Battery; 10 Termination Center; 11 Mandrel; 14 Substation; 

            20 Technodrome; 22 Future Grave; 26 Breakout; 27 Afterlife; 28 Necrophobia; 30 Evil Itself

 

Three Stars:        
            01 Pistol Panic; 03 Ground Floor; 09 Flow; 13 Another Dead Hero; 15 Infernal Reaches; 16 Methods of Fear;

            17 Inflictions of Hate; 32 The Citadel; 21 Avenger; 23 Blood Runners

 

Two Stars:        
            12 No Tomorrow; 31 Mt. Chaos; 24 Bring Evil Upon Thee; 25 Blood Demesne; 29 Citadel at the Edge of Eternity

 

One Star:    
            06 Goin' Down; 19 Monster Mansion

 

[PeceMan]

I mean really, one minute par time?

Spoiler

 

I could literally play this level 150 times in the time it took me to beat map 29

[Plats]

+++Haste & MSCP

[Paf]

+++Haste

+++MSCP

+++Full Moon

+++Ramp

[Deadwing]

+++Haste

+++MSCP

[Yumheart]

Okay, finally, finally.

 

Map29 "Citadel at the Edge of Eternity" by Magikal

I wanted to do the joke, right, where I post a screenshot of the results screen and say something along the lines of "Decent map, a bit long.", but Nights already kinda beat me to it, so oh well. Everybody has said it already, but this map is long, tedious, awkward, grindy, cryptic and unbalanced and I don‘t wanna repeat everything. It subverted my expectations, I'm usually able to push through most "fearsome" maps fairly efficently, even the ones that everybody hates, but this map really destroyed me. I can't describe how unbelievably draining and exhausting it was to play, I can totally respect anybody who decides to give up here.

The first proper stage with the balconies, the weird doors that can only be opened from one side, the timed switches, seemingly random walk-over-line puzzles and those ridiculous hidden Chaingunners is such a drag. Same goes for the elevator section, though fighting Revs, Barons and Chaingunners on narrow walkways was somewhat interesting.

The bigger fights are surprisingly fun, that Pinky / Baron horde with the sniping revenants, the vicious quadruple PE ambush and the Chaingunner / Revenant trenches are not bad at all. Magikal can definitely stage a decent fight when he feels like it. The ending is also cool, I guess, but after three hours of trudging through awful puzzles, I can't really appreciate it anymore. Plus I didn't find the backpack, which means it was more so an awkward infighting / ammo conservation exercise.

This map's scope is pretty amazing for the early 2000s and it's obvious Magikal spent a lot of time on it, but I have zero fondness for it and I wouldn't recommend playing it without reason.


Map30 "Evil Itself" by Thomas Van der Valden

Cute, short, painless. Appreciate it, but there's very little to talk about, especially after my brain has been stomped into a fine pastry.


Comprehensive, objectively correct tier list along with some closing thoughts.

Spoiler

As you can see, quite the uneven distrubution, and that's how I feel about CC in general. If you only want to play the - mostly good - maps, I'd recommend playing E2 as it was most consistently fun for me. E1 is also alright, but I don't recommend playing E3 unless you really have a lot of time on your hands. The three most common things that a lot of maps suffered from were lame action, confusing progression and being too long, with the last one in particular being really detrimental to my overall experience. CC was still nowhere near as bad as I expected it to be and it might be worth a play if you're patient and are interested in wads of historical value.

+++ MSCP & Haste

Edited June 7, 2022 by Yumheart

[TJG1289]

GZDoom/UV/Continuous/Saves

Map 29: Citadel At the Edge of Eternity - Magikal

99% kills and 100% secrets (missed 1 enemy)

Time: 1:45:04

Deaths: 16 (not counting the oodles of times reloading at the yellow bar cyb fight cause I kept getting launched into the lava trying to open the bars)

 

When the DoD ep of CC came out, I watched the UV-Max of this map that was mentioned in it. I figured I wouldn't be playing the map, so why not? So cause of that, this was the only map in the WAD I knew 100% of. As a refresher, I watched it again when I came home from work this morning, in an effort to make this go by quicker. My hope was to clear it in 1h30. I guess an extra 15 minutes wasn't too bad.

 

First of all, this map isn't actually that bad! There's for sure some weird and frustrating elements in it, but overall it's just a difficult level. The really frustrating aspects are the 3D bridges that can break and the lift room. The lift room is just a drag. They go sooooooo slllllooooowwwww. I also had a few of the doors across from the 3D bridges here break and not open. Maybe the trigger is a linedef somewhere, but I couldn't get them to open without a monster opening it from the other side, then I have to hope it gets out of the way so I can scoot through before it closes. Not a fun room. The 3D bridges also seemed to break the most in this map than any other one in the WAD. This was especially the case around the BFG and yellow bar cyb. The cyb fight was the most frustrating part of this map for me, as I couldn't get them open 3/4 of the time. And you can't do too much to the cyb behind it without opening them, so I'm mashing the space bar against it all over it, and this usually results in the rocket blast damage sending me flying off into the lava. This happened at least 10 times, and I didn't count those towards my deaths as I usually just reloaded instead of heading to the yellow door and teleporting back up. A moderate frustration in this map is the progression. It's not as obtuse as Goin Down was, but there's still some oddities. You know, random switches behind what looks like a normal wall, switches that you're not sure what they did, the gargoyle texture that lowers a lift in the titular citadel, etc. The most annoying progression aspect is the jumping across multiple alcoves on the way to the rocket launcher room. Miss one jump, and it's back to the first room of these. Or just quickload like me. 

 

This level is ginormous, and standing still in the outskirts of the citadel is death. Rev snipers in the light towers, cages of mancubi and revs can also snipe you from clear across the map. There will be many times where you have to hide for a good 30 seconds before all the rev missiles from across the map hit a wall. Not a big deal, as there is some cover in the bunkers by the mancubi, and the trench on one side. Mistakes are severely punished in this map, but there's actually a decent amount of health throughout. Ammo is selectively scarce. There are many times you'll be low on ammo but a stash will suddenly appear. I did run out of rockets a couple of times, and even shells once, but there's usually enough ammo to take out everything in the area. I don't think there's a plasma rifle in the map, and I didn't really need it. I did use my continuous one on the way to lower the yellow key as revs and archies showed up in the tunnel to the flesh room. You'll be relying on the SSG for a lot of this map, and eventually the RL. The BFG is toward the end, and it's mostly useful for the cybs and spider masterminds. The secrets are nice, and the soul sphere toward the beginning is one of the few times the 3D floors actually make sense, as you can go under its stairs to get to it.

 

Honestly, I was expecting this map to be a little harder. I think most of my deaths/reloads were due to unfair design rather than encounters. I actually think most of the encounters were pretty fun. The mini challenge rooms toward the west were fun and kinda hard, especially the one that unleashes an archie in the dark. The shotgunner party is fun to explode. The hitscan and rev party just past the red door is hard, but fun. The only encounter I didn't really care for was the room north of that, with the pods that open up when crossing certain linedefs. This was just tedious. Taking out the big groups of caged enemies is grindy too, but that's not really a big deal. The inside walls of the citadel is grindy too, since you're just rocketing enemies, most of which are barons. The final room can be tough since the SM can make you swiss cheese with how little cover there is. Also, there's like 3 of them, and they teleport in once the previous dies. 

 

In summary, I can totally see why this map is not for everyone. It's overly long, pretty punishing, and has some questionable design choices. But if you go into it with knowledge with how to beat it, it's actually pretty enjoyable. Definitely better than Magikal's other map. I also don't really have any desire to play this again. It's a little TOO long for me, but I'm glad I played it.

[LadyMistDragon]

8 hours ago, finnks13 said:

 

CC2 is very similar to CC1, but more polished and with more customisation for the textures and music allowed - it's my favourite of the series personally as it's much more consistently good than CC1 but also much more interesting to me than CC3 and 4.

 

I played the first episode (and a few of the other notable maps that I'd heard were good) from CC3 and found it pretty bland and uninteresting, it's a perfectly solid mapset but I don't really enjoy the very generic themes and gameplay that I played. I've played a similar amount of CC4, and it's a massive step up in the visual department from the others, but I really didn't enjoy how long most of the levels were and I don't think that the gameplay was as much of an improvement over the others as the visuals were.

 

CC2 and 3 would definitely be interesting to see played by the club at some point though.

How would you say that CC3 compares to New Doom Community Project, assuming you've played the latter? I actually remember seeing a comment by someone on Mt.Pain's Community Chest 2 video that Community Chest 3 was their favorite, which...seems a little strange

Edited March 30, 2022 by LadyMistDragon

[PeceMan]

About the Community Chest Megawad in general:

 

I gave every level a 1-5 score, in Stars.

 

 

    Ratings:

5 Stars:

Spoiler

 

 I loved these levels, and I'm very happy I got to play them.

 

    These are levels where either there were no flaws, or where the flaws that existed were not enough to bring down the superior quality of the map.

 

    If I ever played the megawad again, I'd be looking forward to playing these levels again.

 

 

 

    Map 02, Nullth Precinct, by Thomas van der Velden
        Detailed DoomCute, and an interesting realistic layout, which made me feel like I was playing Deus Ex.

 

    Map 18, Sudden Death, by Rex Claussen
        A level in which I didn't find any flaws. I enjoyed my time with it thoroughly, from start to finish.

 

4 Stars:

Spoiler

 

    I liked these levels.

 

    These are levels which had some flaws, but where the overall quality was still high.

 

 

 

    Map 04, Outer Base, by Bad Bob

 

    Map 05, The Forgotten Prison by Black Void 

 

    Map 07, The Boardwalk by Gene Bird

 

    Map 08, Battery by Bad Bob

 

    Map 10, Termination Center by Kaiser

 

    Map 11, Mandrel by Alex Parsons

 

    Map 14, Substation by Metabolist

 

    Map 20, Technodrome by The Ultimate DooMer

 

    Map 22, Future Grave by ravage

 

    Map 26, Breakout by Kaiser

 

    Map 27, Afterlife by Sphagne

 

    Map 28, Necrophobia by Gene Bird

 

    Map 30, Evil Itself by Thomas van der Velden

 

3 Stars:

Spoiler

    I found these levels ok.

 

    These are levels which contained important strengths as well as important flaws, or which contained neither strengths nor flaws.

 

    If I ever played the megawad again, I wouldn't mind playing through these. But these levels wouldn't be the reason I came back. 

 

 

 

    Map 01, Pistol Panic, by The Ultimate DooMer

 

    Map 03, Ground Floor, by Alex Parsons

 

    Map 09, Flow, by Bad Bob

 

    Map 13, Another Dead Hero, by Use3D

 

    Map 15, Infernal Reaches, by Kaiser

 

    Map 16, Methods of Fear, by Andy Leaver

 

    Map 17, Infliction of Hate, by Andy Leaver

 

    Map 21, Avenger, by Sphagne

 

    Map 23, Blood Runners, by Sphagne

 

    Map 32, The Citadel, by Gene Bird

2 Stars:

Spoiler

    I did not like these levels.

 

    These are levels that were noticeably bad in one or more aspects. They were annoying, frustrating, boring, or some other form of not-fun.

 

 

 

    Map 12, No Tomorrow, by Use3D

 

    Map 24, Bring Evil Upon Thee, by Torn 

 

    Map 25, Blood Demesne, by Archvile46

 

    Map 31, Mt. Chaos, by Volteface

 

    Map 29, Citadel at the Edge of Eternity, by Magikal 
        Level 29 was horrible, but it gets an extra star because of the effort displayed.

1 Star:

Spoiler

 

    I hated these levels, with a passion.

 

    These are levels that had no redeeming qualities, or if they did, they were simply not enough to offset the sheer horribleness of the design.

 

 

 

    Map 06, Goin' Down, by Magikal
        One of the worst maps I've ever played. Aesthetically deficient, weird gameplay, and progression that reeks of a lack of playtesting.

        By all means, it should have been rejected by any wad that claims to contain good levels.

 

    Map 19, Monster Mansion, by Gene Bird
        Unapologetically ugly, and with no redeeming qualities.

 

    With that, the wad obtains 104 Stars out of the possible 160, for an average of:

 

 

____________________________________________________________

____________________________________________________________

                                      3,25 / 5 Stars

____________________________________________________________

____________________________________________________________

 

 

    3 Stars means Ok, so a wad with an average of 3,25 Stars should be okay, right? Almost 3 out of every 4 levels was either good (but not great)

    or simply acceptable. But there's another side to CChest 1.

 

    When you hear "It's a compilation of maps by good mappers", you think it's gonna be a pretty solid wad. But things were different back in the

    distant times of 2003.

 

    Today, you'd assume it would go something like this:
    "Right. This guy, who's made some really good maps in the past, has submitted this map for our wad. I played it a couple of times. It is a good

     map, but it does have some flaws. I talked to them about the flaws, and they fixed most of them. Now, the map is pretty solid. It'll be a great

     addition to the wad."

 

    Back then, it was more like:
    "Right. This guy, whom I don't know, claims to be a good mapper. He made this map, which he says is good. There's this other guy I don't know

     who says he's played the level, and he said he thought the level was alright. That's good enough for me. Into the wad it goes!"

 

    Almost 1 out of every 4 maps was either bad, or straight up terrible. If there's one thing the wad doesn't have, it's solidity. Every level is a gamble.

    Wether the next level will be good or bad, feels almost like a coin toss.

 

 

 

    It's not just that tools were different back then. Knowledge and experience were also lacking. But the main problem was the complete lack of

    playtesting practices. 

 

    Today, if someone makes a terrible map, then at least it is possible to point out to them the main issues their map has, so that even if it's too

    late to fix the map, the mapper at least has the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, instead of continuing to make maps that are just as bad

    or even worse.

 

    And the epitome of this is the most important map of the wad, map 29. A map that shows what happens when overwhelming amounts of effort

    are poured by someone who has no idea that they make mistakes. So the pile of bad design decisions becomes larger and larger, building an

    entire castle out of shit bricks. The result was impressive, but horrible. 

 

    And I like to think something like that wouldn't happen today. There's too much communication within the forums, too many tutorials and reviews

    available on youtube. There are active playtesters easily available, and there is a strong push to get your levels playtested as early as possible.

 

 

 

    All in all, I'm happy I played Cchest. After all, it is a staple. Not exactly the BIGGEST, JUICIEST staple, but a staple nonetheless.

    And honestly, if it weren't for the DWMC, I would've never played past level 12. I probably wouldn't have even reached that far.

Edited March 31, 2022 by PeceMan
orthography

[erzboesewicht]

MAP17-19. Seems I'll reach the 20s in time, but in April I'll probably not joining the club so I'll play the rest.

 

Like always: Pistol start, UV, prboom-plus, occasional saves in bigger maps. Difficulty scale (approx.): 1 = Doom E1M1, 3 = Doom E1M4 or E3M2, 5 = Doom2 MAP29, 7 = Plutonia MAP15, 10 = Sunlust MAP15 and above

 

MAP17: Infliction of Hate by Andy Leaver

 

A short map with a nice semi-hot start concept; once the monsters see you, you should better open the door ASAP because otherwise you'll be cornered. The weakest part is the chaingunner room, a simple door-camping exercise, but then you're thrown into some easy but somewhat fun fights with imps and midtiers. The fight with revenants and hell knights in the lava area is flawed though, most likely the monsters will take themselves out without much player intervention. I liked the hellish visuals and the progression which involves some light verticality "puzzles". If the player isn't too bad with jumping they will leave the map completely overpowered.

 

Difficulty: 4/10
Rating: 7/10

 

MAP18: Sudden Death by Rex Claussen

 

A wonderful classic techbase where the author was able to create an unique visual style using mostly (only?) the stock textures. The player starts in a sewers area and then gradually opens up a big complex with three distinct areas. While the structure is very much a traditional "hub and spoke" and the key progression is linear, inside the keyed areas you're given several choices to tackle the challenges. The combat is mostly very easy (there's a cheap death trap however which got me once). The central hall periodically fills with enemies of increasing difficulty, and here's the only point I would criticize: the pinky swarm after the blue switch, which is simply a time sink (at least a secret gives you the chainsaw). I really liked the details of the map, above all the progression in the yellow and red areas. One of the best 'til now.

 

Difficulty: 3/10
Rating: 9/10

 

MAP19: Monster Mansion by Gene Bird

 

Gene Bird again delivers his signature style: a mostly dark stone/wood complex (maybe a little bit brighter and more open than normal) with a library and some outdoor areas, full of fodder to slaughter with the SSG with some midtiers and barons thrown in to add a bit of spice. There are some nice design bits like the computer panel that opens a door near the start and the "3D-door". And there are indeed some fights that are fun although they aren't really challenging, like the crossfire at the outdoor area with the blue door and the library teleport ambush. But much repetitive frontal combat and myhouse-like corridor fighting (with basic doomcutery) remains, so I still think that until now MAP07 was his best effort. And: there is only one Monster Mansion :-)

 

Difficulty: 3/10
Rating: 6,5/10

Edited March 31, 2022 by erzboesewicht

[T-Rex]

14 hours ago, RHhe82 said:

 

This is something I meant to ask - how does CC2, CC3 and CC4 compare to CC1? I know something of CC2 thru Dean of Doom, apparently Gene Bird falls from grace there, and CC4 I have played a couple of levels and the texture pack of that origin is great. CC3 is hardly ever mentioned anywhere.

 

I know I haven't taken part in the DWMC's run through CC1, but I watched NiGHTS108's playthroughs of the maps, including MtPain27's review of the wad, and with how the other CC installments compare to the first one, I honestly feel that CC2 is kinda more or less the same as about half the maps are okay, while the rest were duds, especially Gene Bird's offerings. The Mucus Flow is an acquired taste, that's for sure, because even though it has such stunning visuals and a rather intriguing concept that just makes it such an enigma, it is unfortunately broken as it is unbeatable on ZDoom, and you can't even play it on regular Boom due to segment violation, so CC2 works with only very certain limit-removing source ports. Having played CC3, I can say is a huge step up in gameplay and level design quality, and, if you can get past the fact that most of the maps are massive behemoths that can take at least 10 minutes to beat (Black Rain is undoubtedly the biggest and most difficult of the set), you'll find it to be a solid, nicely laid out collection, and of course, CC4 is considered by many in the Doom community to be the best of the series.

[Gibbon]

RZDoom, HMP, blind run w/no saves

 

Evil Itself - MAP30

 

Well damn, this is a nice easy cracker of a map.  I love the take on the IoS and the end part is damn fun.

Spoiler

 

 

Mt. Chaos - MAP31 (edit: yes I thought it was MAP32 not MAP31 :P)

 

Well damn Gene!  Look at you, a micro slaughter map!  A fun epic of a level that I consider to be Gene's Magnum Opus.  Archviles, Mancubi, Caco's..  Gene doesn't hold back here at all!

 

I loved the trick at the exit that wouldn't let you pass and I hate to say it but..  I died.  Yes, I died on a Gene Bird map!  I've lost all credibility, I'll forever be mocked on the internet as a n00b until the end of my days.  Oh Gene, you finally got me on this one!

Spoiler

 

 

Really enjoyed going through this with you all.  Really gives some sense of purpose to play through an entire megawad.  Jolly good show!

Edited March 31, 2022 by Gibbon

[Andromeda]

6 hours ago, Gibbon said:

Mt. Chaos - MAP31

 

I loved the trick at the exit that wouldn't let you pass and I hate to say it but..  I died.  Yes, I died on a Gene Bird map!  I've lost all credibility, I'll forever be mocked on the internet as a n00b until the end of my days.  Oh Gene, you finally got me on this one!

Your credibility lives to see another day, as MAP31 is actually by VolteFace and not Gene :P

[Gibbon]

48 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Your credibility lives to see another day, as MAP31 is actually by VolteFace and not Gene :P

Damn I could have sworn I saw GB as the author.  I have him on the brain 

 

EDIT:

 

THAT's why!  I saw MAP32 (the citadel) and totally ignored VoltFace..

Edited March 31, 2022 by Gibbon

[finnks13]

14 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

How would you say that CC3 compares to New Doom Community Project, assuming you've played the latter? I actually remember seeing a comment by someone on Mt.Pain's Community Chest 2 video that Community Chest 3 was their favorite, which...seems a little strange

 

I couldn't say as I've not actually played Newdoom Community Project, I heard mixed things about it so I haven't given it a go (though to be honest, I heard very mixed things about CC1 and 2 too, so maybe I should play it). I know it's getting a remaster, so I'll probably end up trying it then.

 

I could definitely understand CC3 being someone's favourite of the series, as it's the most conventional of the series - you don't have much of the "jank, esoteric, early-2000s" in there, and it's also much more classic feeling than CC4 from it's comparatively vanilla texture set.

[Silhouette 03]

Map29: Citadel at the edge of eternity- Magikal

Where do I begin...?

 

Dobu Gabu Maru described Map29 as being a tour de force and I agree. Magikal's second map in CC (and his final map before his passing) is a behemoth map with a massive monster count. I almost feel that this map was intended to be a magnum opus of sorts. It's not that fun to play though. I really, really didn't enjoy this map for many different reasons. The progression was sometimes obscure, fights were made needlessly difficult by not giving the player key weapons or the fights themselves being repetitive, unfun or excessive. I had to IDDQD some of the fights as I don't have all day  The map's puzzles are also worth talking about. I know I'm probably not the right audience since I don't really enjoy puzzles in Doom maps, but these puzzles aren't  fun. The marble barons head puzzle has a really obscure solution to the puzzle, requiring you to interact with hidden doors behind the alcoves that are linedef triggered. I just didn't enjoy this map as a whole.

 

I can't really bring myself to like this map but I do respect magikal's vision. He clearly put a lot of time into this map. RIP

 

Kills: 87%
Secrets: 36%

 

Map30: Evil itself- Thomas van der Velden

The end of a journey, and a good one at that

 

A Thomas van der Velden map is probably the best way to end off CC, going by his first submission. This is a really fun take on a Icon of sin map. It's short and to the point , but still manages to be fun. I really like the final room, where you have to press switches to raise the floor which changes the liquid. The icon of sin is also adorable, being a "physical" thing rather than a wall texture. It's just a really nice way to end of CC.

 

I wish Thomas van der Velden made more maps for

Kills: 78%

Secrets: 0%

 

Conclusion

 

Community chest is ultimately a mixed bags of maps. You have great maps like map02, map 11 and map 26, and some really middling entries which is basically the rest of the wad. The negatives outweigh the positives, in my opinion.

 

If you took the time to read my posts, thank you. I'm glad that you enjoy my musings and ravings. I had a lot of fun this month, despite not enjoying a lot of the maps. I'll probably skip April, as I don't really enjoy slaughter maps, ( and I'm terrible at them) except for Plutonia map 32.

 

I hope everyone enjoys April!   

 

 

 

 

 

[TJG1289]

GZDoom/UV/Continuous/Saves

Map 30: Evil Itself - Thomas Van Der Velden

IoS% kills and 0% secrets

Time: 3:47

Deaths: 2

 

Finishing the WAD, we have a nice little IoS map that's actually pretty unique, even today. First off, we have a little curtain call of all the enemies in the game. 4 zombiemen, 2 shotgunners, and 1 of each of everything else. Hit a switch, the next enemy appears. Just don't step in the center, cause this is map 30, and you will get telefragged (Death #1. Death #2 was trying to 2-shot the cyb). After the mastermind is gone, you grab a meagsphere and the path to the IoS opens. This IoS is actually as 3D as possible, and your goal is to hit 4 switches around the arena to raise the liquid level in order to rocket its brain from behind. I like the touch of the liquid changing type with each switch. There's only 2 revs here initially, but I think the IoS spawns 2 monsters each round. You really don't need to worry with the spawning monsters though, and there's some health and armor around if you need it, but just quickly smack the switches and rocket the brain. Nothing hard at all, but it's a pretty charming final map. I liked it!

 

Final Thoughts

 

I think it's safe to say that CC1 hasn't really aged that well. Idk how well received this was when it was first released. It was not listed in Doomworld's top 100 WADs of all time in the 2003 section, and I have a feeling there was nowhere near the amount of releases we've been seeing in recent years. All 3 of its sequels received Cacowards, so at least this first one got the ball rolling. The maps featured in this WAD definitely feel like their time. Many of the maps have design choices that wouldn't be made today, given the nearly 20 years since release. Even though Doom had been out for a decade at this point, there still wasn't the refinement and expert design we see now. People were still figuring it out. And you can see that in here. I tended to find the simpler maps in this set more enjoyable, and the bigger more complex ones not being as fun. The smaller ones wouldn't be out of place in a CP nowadays I feel, especially in something like a speedmap CP. Some of the bigger maps suffer from complex and unintuitive layouts, confusing progression, and ammo starvation. The look of the maps show age too. Some look pretty nice for the time, but then we have some really blah looking ones too. But that's the charm of CPs, especially this one that was made to show off mappers who weren't part of bigger projects. And of course, this WAD has the magnum opus to end all magnum opuses in its map 29 slot. That alone makes this WAD one should play just to see what Doom modding was like back in the day. Despite all of its flaws and dated design, I think the only map I didn't really like is map 21. It was the only map that actively annoyed me, mostly due to confusing navigation. Most maps were either good, fine, or meh, with most of that falling in the fine category. I think my favorites were 3, 7, 14, 17, 18, 24, and, you know what, 29. 29 may have a lot of flaws, but like I said yesterday, with advanced knowledge it's actually pretty fun, and not too overwhelming in its difficulty. I think I've played harder. 

 

I give this WAD a resounding "ok". It's fine. It's of its time, but it's cool to see where we've come from. I'll probably give next month a rest, as slaughterfests aren't really my bag, even if the maps are small.

Edited March 31, 2022 by TJG1289

[brick]

Reading everyone else's comments on MAP30 makes me realize that, even though I liked it a lot and said so, I really didn't give it the credit and appreciation it deserves for all the original ideas, including the interactive cast call, the hilarious secret with all the spare boss brains, the 3D icon, and the changing liquid floor. So I'll just take this opportunity to say thanks to TV for all the playful creativity he's given us, both in this wad and in others.

[erzboesewicht]

So let's finish that :) - MAP20-24

 

Pistol start, UV, prboom-plus, occasional saves in bigger maps. Difficulty scale (approx.): 1 = Doom E1M1, 3 = Doom E1M4 or E3M2, 5 = Doom2 MAP29, 7 = Plutonia MAP15, 10 = Sunlust MAP15 and above

 

MAP20: Technodrome by Stephen Clark (The Ultimate DooMer)

 

A story-driven map. The start first gives you a hint for the map's "goal", and then throws you directly into fierce action - a symmetric techbase with high midtier density. The first challenge is to find a foothold and get your weapons. They're all essentially free to access, including the BFG, but things are complicated by the voodoo dolls which seem to have returned from MAP01. I don't hate them, in some parts (in the blue key area and in the blue maze, for example) they're quite cleverly used, while in other parts their position seems more or less random. The side areas have all a different theme, first a crate/warehouse that could have come straight from TNT: Evilution, then a blue maze area resembling  "Killer Colors" from Alien Vendetta with a nice trap inside, then an "Abandoned Mines"-style cage area and finally a reactor, where you'll reach your goal (but remember the place where you've seen the exit!). I wonder if someone has maxed this map, I tried it a few times (reloading a save after the reactor fight), but the 2-minutes time seems to be too short for the last 50 monsters (many pain elementals among them) even if I use only the best weaponry - and we need 2 BFG shots left for fast disposal of the final archvile duo. In my opinion the map was a bit long, but had several good ideas. Difficulty is a little bit lower than in Use3Ds maps, albeit UV-maxing may be a 10/10. I got into zombie state several times :)

 

Difficulty: 6/10
Rating: 7,5/10

 

MAP21: Avenger by Sphagne

 

A brown city map with Heretic music. There are several nice concepts in the areas near the start, like lost souls entering the playspace from above. The map's first part heavily relies on roaming monsters which will often teleport close to you. Most of them are imps, even they can give you headaches, but I liked that - it gives the map some "life" and replayability. As a pistol starter I had a hard time getting a foothold, as ammo is sparse and first only the shotgun and chaingun are given out, I found the SSG much later. At least you get berserk packs in several locations, which were urgently needed. So I practiced to punch imps, and I think I improved :) At several locations, switches opened up areas for you, which was cool. I spent ages to find the yellow key; while I guessed its location correctly I didn't realize that this damn grey thing was the lift to reach it ... The last parts are a bit more midtier- to uppertier-focused, with a nice teleport/vile fight near the exit. I liked the map, it's very exploration-rewarding and has awesome secrets (although one is impossible to trigger which is a pity). That's approximately what I consider a "hidden gem", the only criticism is the yellow key location. However, I think as a standalone map it surely works better, as it requires time.

 

Difficulty: 4/10
Rating: 9/10

 

MAP22: Future Grave by Jason Allison (ravage)

 

A cute short to mid-sized map with mostly a simple brown-green aesthetic. The green slime gives the map a feeling a bit different from normal "E1"-themed offerings, more similar to Alien Vendetta's MAP01 and the like. Combat is mostly against fodder, but imps are very well used, I've to admit that I was killed twice in the first imp ambush in the area behind the red door. One of the secrets was pretty obscure, and for another one (the final soulsphere) one has to traverse a relatively large optional area. I accidentally triggered the exit before I should have (it can be triggered at the wall which should block it), I guess this is a bug.

 

Difficulty: 4/10
Rating: 8,5/10

MAP23: Blood Runners by Sphagne

 

Another exploration-focused map by Sphagne, and in my opinion another gem of this mapset (again, originally a standalone map; as it's a little bit less obtuse, it works a bit better than MAP21 inside the Community Chest megawad). Visually, this time the mapper did exactly the opposite of what they did in the very brown MAP21: they went crazy with the textures, and every section has a different theme. So we have a mix of techbase, wood, crates and a hellish cavern with lots of blood; fortunately the amount of damaging floors is not excessive so if you run out of radsuits you can still have hope to return to safety. Lots of Doomcute are to be seen too. The progression centers on dead ends which require backtracking, but you can open new connections as you progress. One thing to criticize is that all armor of the map is tucked away in secrets, but if you search a bit, you can get two megaspheres in the first half. Gameplay is a bit more "standard" than in MAP21. I liked the pinky swarm setpiece, it resembled an "event" with baron/HK "singers" on a "stage" (?), and your best option is to play it pacifist. And the crate area was also cool, although the decision to have to jump to the plasma rifle and the BFG from the same (already relatively difficult to reach) platform was maybe questionable.

 

Difficulty: 4/10
Rating: 9/10

 

MAP24: Bring Evil Upon Thee by Kim Bach (Torn)

 

The most easy-going map for a long time. Here you've basically what could be called a "Doom children playground": a place where you can massacre tons of imps and other fodder with the SSG and rockets. There are several viles in the map, however most of them were used inefficiently in cages or confined areas, maybe mainly to annoy speedrunners. Mindless fun to relax the brain a bit, not much more to say.

 

Difficulty: 2/10
Rating: 6,5/10

 

I've started MAP25, and it looks difficult from a pistol start. I'll see if I continue with CC, as we're in April already, and MSCP is tempting me :). Maybe I'll finish it slowly while at the same time micro-slaughtering demons.

Edited April 2, 2022 by erzboesewicht

[Book Lord]

18 hours ago, erzboesewicht said:

I've started MAP25, and it looks difficult from a pistol start. I'll see if I continue with CC, as we're in April already, and MSCP is tempting me :). Maybe I'll finish it slowly while at the same time micro-slaughtering demons.

Please take your time and complete the playthrough... The thread is just a few posts away from 600 messages, which is surely a sign of great participation. Only a few DWMC months did better: Speed of Doom with 712, Nova II with 643, Realms of Chaos with 634, Alien Vendetta with 631 and Sunlust with 611 (still within reach). Not bad for an infamous, 20-year old CP.

 

Thanks everybody for sharing their thoughts and for the strong determination to complete the megaWAD and the reviews. It's always a pleasure to read other people's views after elaborating and posting mine. See you in the next months!

Edited April 2, 2022 by Book Lord

[Jaccident]

My review for Citadel at the Edge of Eternity is finally done. I played this in multiple sessions which made it slightly more bearable, and only went slightly insane as a result. Each session's section is written straight after that session ended, so it sort of acts like a diary. I hope this is somewhat entertaining for you guys.

 

Session one: In game time 0:00 to 6:18

I only had time for a short play session today, and already I am getting a taste of what this map is about. The start of the level scares me into a room using a turret filled with barons, and in doing so funnels me into a tense shootout with more hitscanners than is reasonable. Still, this initial shootout was fun, although the fight after it with the hell knights and revenants was more a chore than anything else. I fought my way up to a switch to open the next area only to find an invisible wall, which was infuriating. After far too much searching, I found the switch I had missed, and I get the feeling that the frustration I felt will be intimately familiar to me by the time I finish this level. I then try to climb a set of stairs only to be annihilated by chaingunners hiding in a wall. Combing through the two areas full of enemies and an archvile takes multiple attempts to do with an acceptable amount of health loss but comes with a feeling of satisfaction once it has finally been beaten. In a play session of about half an hour, I have only climbed the first mountain.

 

Session 2: In game time 6:18 to 11:50

Another short play session today, I really need to budget my time better. This session presented new challenges and forced me to come to terms with the idea that I stand no chance at killing everything. An area with many doors was my fight for today, and while I did not defeat it, I understand it a lot better. Assaulting it from the front is near impossible, with every door only opening once and being filled with enemies. Luckily, the cacodemon door was the easiest and so I could get in that way fairly easily. What lies inside is madness. Escaping to the back area offers you a brief moment of safety before that safety is taken from you by chaingunners hiding in shadows so dark they match the textures. These chaingunners killed me repeatedly, and made every step a cautious one. However, this back area allowed me to venture into areas that a frontal assault would have cost me greatly to get into. A room that feels like an alien dream has revenants lurking everywhere in ambush, and it seems as if they are in the walls, too, waiting to make me think that even the walls of this place offer no safety. I cannot beat this room, so I move onto another, with a berserk lying tantalisingly on a pedestal. Unfortunately, a pain elemental ambush stands in my way, and it was at this time that I had to stop for today. I have made less progress today than I hoped, and at this rate I will be playing long after the exams that take my free time away will have finished.

 

Session 3: In game time 11:50 to 22:49

I went into this play session frustrated by the maths I was studying, so this particular session was never going to end well. I realised that each of the doors in the back areas led to a challenge, and that beating each challenge would allow me to progress further. So I did, using the map to as much of my advantage as possible, and eventually I beat all of them. However, I then got into the area that the challenges unlocked, only to find a bizarre walking puzzle. I managed to trigger all the ambushes I could find, and get all the switches hidden behind panels, but I am now stuck in this room with seemingly no way out. Here seems like a good place to stop for now.

 

Session 4: In game time 22:49 to 38:26

A longer play session this time, and I certainly needed all of it. It turns out each room that I considered impossible to beat in a frontal assault is a room I now must clear. I find a secret megasphere, which gave me an odd feeling of hope, so I saved it for later. I do not have the ammo for all the fights, so I usually end up having to beat enemies to death with my fists. Worst. Tyson Map. Ever. The fights are always different but always go the same way – I clear out the most troublesome enemies with the 20 shells I get per room and kill the rest with my fists until I am the only thing left in that room. I remember thinking when I played through Doom Eternal that it seemed a bit weird how doomguy’s mind had degraded so much whilst fighting demons. Now it is my belief that before arriving in that arena in the flashback or whatever, doomguy must have just played Citadel at the Edge of Eternity. Eventually I clear all the rooms and beat the annoying as hell platforming puzzle, only to be greeted by more enemies. I kill them and collect my rocket launcher, only to be thrust into a trap with a swarm of pinkies. After killing them I get ammo and health, so that I have 100 rockets and 100 shells. Sadly, many arachnotrons await me above, so I stop for today.

 

Session 5: In game time 38:26 to 58:45

For all the bullshit this map is throwing at me, it never seems too unfair. There always seems to be a trick, a way out, some tiny little hole in the otherwise insurmountable fortress that is this map. And while the fortress still looms in the centre, out of my reach, I seem to be making good progress on the map. The arachnotron fight wasn’t a problem as I could just go outside and kill them from there, and other fights had similar solutions. I’m particularly proud of using the chaingun to stunlock the front caco in a cacoswarm, and then hiding back up some steps to gain a vantage point to slowly kill them all. I don’t want this to turn into a play-by-play of my playthrough, so I will spare you the details of every encounter, but this part felt absolutely doable, like I was getting on Magikal’s wavelength as a mapper. There is always a trick, some sleight of hand that makes the impossible a reality.

 

Session 6: In game time 58:45 to 01:18:22

Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Oh no, an enemy! Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Ooooo, a berserk, fantastic, I’ll save that for later. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Oh fuck two hell knights and a revenant, I need that berserk now. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. BARON FIGHT! Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down. Lift goes up, lift goes down.

 

Session 7: In game time 01:18:22 to 01:57:23

I’m in a room filled with black boxes, every step I take seems to send more enemies at me. I only have ammo for my rocket launcher so I’m eating rockets left right and centre. Eventually, I manage to find the random switches that open my way out, and get into another fight where I only have my rocket launcher and a bunch of tight corners. This happens over and over again until eventually I stumble my way into the yellow key. Thank god. I then hurl myself into the pit to climb the annoying as hell 3D floors, where if you deviate from the intended path you die. I grab the BFG and get promptly blasted into the pit by an archvile. I reload a save. I try to climb the stairs and miss a corner. I reload a save. I fail again. I reload a save. After far too many tries I get to the cyberdemon. Magikal decided it would be funny to not give me room to dodge the cyber’s rockets so time and time again I get blasted to death and reload a save. Eventually it dies and I jump off the platform in search of the blue key. Eventually I realise I missed a switch near the cyber, and now the 3D floors are acting up so I have to idclip to get the switch. I cannot be bothered to fight 4 cyberdemons with no armour and not enough plasma, so I swoop in, grab the blue key, and run away. I finally enter the citadel, and play peekaboo with hitscanners for about 20 minutes straight. I reassure myself with the knowledge I’m almost done. I click a random switch and get up to the next layer. I don’t have the health for this, so I spend half an hour dying to barons, revenants and mancubi. Eventually I get to the final room. I know from cheating in this room to get to map 30 that the switch is invisible behind the spider mastermind. I kill the spider mastermind with my BFG and spam use blindly in the centre until its finally over. I can play a different wad now. I finally beat the citadel at the edge of eternity, although in some ways it beat me. I cannot decide if I enjoyed playing this map, but it was certainly an experience I will not forget. So many bullshit puzzles, awfully balanced fights, a continuous slog of a map that makes me question my sanity. In some ways, the strange and hostile nature of this map reminds me of Cruelty Squad, except the gameplay and aesthetics have been swapped in terms of quality. I pick up an onion and begin peeling.