Has Duke Nukem Forever Forever Ruined Forever?

[Rudolph]

"Forever" makes for a good title in my opinion, yet when I think of cultural products with that name, I think of Batman Forever - which was successful back in the days but has since become widely reviled - and of Duke Nukem Forever. Off the top of my head, I cannot come up with a counter-example. It is probably not a coincidence that Id Software ended up going with "Eternal" for Doom 5 - even though it led to some confusion with Eternal Doom.

 

So what do you think? Are there examples of actually good things with "Forever" in their title that I am missing or is "Forever" forever doomed?

Edited March 2, 2022 by Rudolph

[luke11685]

Such pun intentionally intended.

[scalliano]

No One Lives Forever and No One Lives Forever 2.

 

Only ones I can think of.

[luke11685]

:) Yes indeed.

[Stupid Bunny]

I'm not sure DNF ruined it singlehandedly, but--maybe it's just my imagination--putting "Forever" on the title somehow sounds really 90s/early-00s.  That might just be my association with Batman Forever and Duke Nukem Forever since I can't think of any other meaningful examples right now.

 

I guess if they made one now they'd just call it "Duke" or "Nukem" or something

[Ludi]

It was a really dated subtitle even when DNF was originally supposed to release, but Batman Forever isn't a movie I think most people remember so maybe I'm wrong about that

[Dubbag]

no

[smeghammer]

No...

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by smeghammer

[smeghammer]

And:

 

 

Although to be fair, these are both firmly rooted in the 80s. :-)

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by smeghammer

[Doomkid]

In the title of a movie or game, it strikes me the same way “resurrection”, “reborn”, “reloaded” do as subtitles - pretty generic and uninspiring. I could only ever imaging using it in a parody, or something intentionally over-the-top (but in a funny way rather than a cringey way like DNF).

 

I think like most “stock subtitles”, it’ll keep being used here and there. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StockSubtitle

[Rudolph]

3 hours ago, scalliano said:

No One Lives Forever and No One Lives Forever 2.

 

Only ones I can think of.

Oh, right! I played them a bit, but never got very far, as they just did not grab me like Monolith's Aliens Versus Predator 2.

 

I believe the franchise is stuck in limbo, right? If so, then that would make a No One Lives Forever 3 have to live up to impossible expectations.

 

And come to think of it, the worst Sean Connery Bond movie is Diamonds Are Forever and there was also a 1984 movie called Nothing Lasts Forever starring Zach Gilligan that was never officially released. I guess "Forever" really is kind of a cursed title! :P

 

8 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

“reloaded”

Aside from The Matrix Reloaded, I actually cannot think of another thing with "Reloaded" in its title, aside maybe the Conkey's Bad Fur Day Xbox remake?

 

Also, to the first Matrix sequel's credit, the subtitle is quite relevant, as the plot revolves the titular setting getting reloaded.

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Rudolph

[Murdoch]

6 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

In the title of a movie or game, it strikes me the same way “resurrection”, “reborn”, “reloaded” do as subtitles - pretty generic and uninspiring.

 

This. While I would never make a snap judgement about something so trivial, these kind of generic subtitles do tend to make me go "meh".

[Wadmodder Shalton]

IMHO, I hope indie game developers that rely exclusively in Patreon can get a better representation of what a game can be instead of relying on Development Hell like what happened with Duke Nukem Forever when 3D Realms was in charge of development until 2009, especially in this day and age with COVID-19 working conditions impacting the industry.

 

Thank God for Patreon, which will have the potential to replace the outdated Development Hell tropes for indie games.

 

Now that I think about Patreon now, I think IMO that DragonSnow's efforts to develop games in early access exclusively via Patreon with the still in development Changed Special Edition can now put the long Development Hell periods of Duke Nukem Forever, Beyond Good & Evil 2 and even Star Citizen all to permanent shame.

[Rudolph]

Ha! I stumbled upon a rather old, dare I say, even ancient video game that goes by the name of A Mind Forever Voyaging.

 

However, from what I can read, it was a decent, non-controversial text adventure game.

[Astronomical]

7 hours ago, Rudolph said:

It is probably not a coincidence that Id Software ended up going with "Eternal" for Doom 5 - even though it led to some confusion with Eternal Doom. 

I can't believe that no one googled the title first to check if something similar existed before.  I would assume pre-Doom Eternal, the results would auto correct to Eternal Doom.

[DannyMan]

HacX 2 Forever

[Rudolph]

47 minutes ago, Astronomical said:

I can't believe that no one googled the title first to check if something similar existed before.  I would assume pre-Doom Eternal, the results would auto correct to Eternal Doom.

Id Software probably figured that it would not matter, as Eternal Doom seems fairly obscure outside of the Doom community.

 

Unfortunately for Eternal Doom, they were correct.

[ApprihensivSoul]

I figure if there's another Duke Nukem game they have to give it the name "Victory" to continue the Fast and Furious style obscure title puns.

As far as how to continue the franchise, I'm sure there's a twofold issue. 
First of course is the problem with the franchise's nigh insulting obsession with 3D ever since it came out, a problem that even Forever itself was dripping in. 
The second of course is a cultural one, that Gearbox isn't really sure how to write for the Duke in a modern era, which means that there's no way they can perfectly capture his 3D era self in future installments without going back to the drawing board. Not that writing has ever really been a Gearbox strong point.

The problem of course is that 3D really is the best game in the series, by far, but i think that it probably deserves more credit for ruining the franchise than Forever does given the direction everything since it took.
I think if I were to try to revitalize the series I would take a different approach, try to find ways to bring back as much of the old stuff as possible, as well as a soft remake of Forever, before trying to seriously launch any new projects, and if I was writing a "Duke Nukem Victory" I would task a team on doing something that's as unrelated to Duke3D as possible, with a new style of threat and new tone, but then once the project's underway set a team just to find ways to incorporate as many elements of the other Duke games franchise wide as possible into it without derailing whatever the main team is doing.
Total shot in the dark, especially as I am unlikely to ever own D3D, nor do I have a particular desire to, but I have put some thought into the OP's question a few times in the past as an experiment, I hope it's useful.

[Avoozl]

Well at least the Duke Nukem community made a far better remake of Forever for DN3D.

[Rudolph]

46 minutes ago, ApprihensivSoul said:

I think if I were to try to revitalize the series I would take a different approach, try to find ways to bring back as much of the old stuff as possible, as well as a soft remake of Forever, before trying to seriously launch any new projects, and if I was writing a "Duke Nukem Victory" I would task a team on doing something that's as unrelated to Duke3D as possible, with a new style of threat and new tone, but then once the project's underway set a team just to find ways to incorporate as many elements of the other Duke games franchise wide as possible into it without derailing whatever the main team is doing.

I believe it was the original aim of the game Duke Nukem: Mass Destruction before it had to be reworked as Bombshell.

 

I have not played it myself, but I hear it was not received well, so I am not sure it would have been enough to revitalize the Duke Nukem franchise. That being said, had the developers being allowed to use the character, I wonder if Ion Fury would have been developed as a Duke Nukem 3D sequel instead; you can tell from all the pop culture references and the oneliners that Voidpoint *really* wanted to make it a Duke Nukem first-person shooter!

Edited March 3, 2022 by Rudolph

[Snark]

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

In the title of a movie or game, it strikes me the same way “resurrection”, “reborn”, “reloaded” do as subtitles - pretty generic and uninspiring. I could only ever imaging using it in a parody, or something intentionally over-the-top (but in a funny way rather than a cringey way like DNF).

 

I think like most “stock subtitles”, it’ll keep being used here and there. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StockSubtitle

The absolute worst subtitle has to be "Requiem". It's an instant NO I AM NOT WATCHING/PLAYING THIS if it's ever used.

[ApprihensivSoul]

Which is a shame, because "Requiem" is quite the sick word, and I love saying it, it's just a shame that practically every movie to use it is a meltdown.

[Rudolph]

@Snark Not even the Doom II mapset of the same name? :P

Edited March 3, 2022 by Rudolph

[Redneckerz]

8 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Aside from The Matrix Reloaded, I actually cannot think of another thing with "Reloaded" in its title, aside maybe the Conkey's Bad Fur Day Xbox remake?

Duke Nukem 3D: Reloaded. Never got released.

[Gez]

16 hours ago, scalliano said:

No One Lives Forever and No One Lives Forever 2.

Those are different in that the "forever" actually has a reason to be there. It's part of the title instead of being a subtitle.

Likewise for:

13 hours ago, smeghammer said:

and:

11 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Ha! I stumbled upon a rather old, dare I say, even ancient video game that goes by the name of A Mind Forever Voyaging.

 

And by the way:

7 hours ago, Snark said:

The absolute worst subtitle has to be "Requiem". It's an instant NO I AM NOT WATCHING/PLAYING THIS if it's ever used.

Is it okay if it's the title, instead of the subtitle? I mean...

 

Or my favorite game I never want to actually play.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Gez

[hybridial]

I actually wish movies would go back to numbers, the more recent trend of just using the original movie's fucking title when you're still a sequel to it is just dumb.

[mrthejoshmon]

Forever is such a dull title, we don't use "Revenge", "Vengence", "Retribution", "Final", "Judgement", "Requiem", "Absolution" or "Ultimate" in the very cheesy way as much as we should do, "Duke Nukem Retribution" or "Duke Nukem: Cycloid's Revenge" are shit titles but they're the right kind of shit, like Kung Fury.

[Rudolph]

3 hours ago, hybridial said:

I actually wish movies would go back to numbers, the more recent trend of just using the original movie's fucking title when you're still a sequel to it is just dumb.

I am no marketing expert, but I suspect this is because they fear numbered titles might deter newcomers from watching the latest entry by making them think that they have to watch all the previous ones first in order to familiarize themselves with the plot, the characters and the setting - which to be fair can be quite an undertaking, especially if a series is known for its inconsistent quality.

 

After all, none of the James Bond movies have numbers in their titles - aside from "007", I guess. But you know what I mean. ^_^

Edited March 3, 2022 by Rudolph

[hybridial]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

I am no marketing expert

 

Good then I don't want to punch you :P XD

 

I mean, film making and franchises and titles have become such a clusterfuck that I guess there is no hope of not making it a complete mess.

 

But I do find something unseemly about calling your new shitty movie the name of an old good movie and pretending it's the same thing, it's kind of horrible to me given I care about this thing called artistic integrity? 

 

There's an excuse for it if it's remake, but that's kind of the only excuse I find acceptable. And most remakes are a bad idea. 

[Rudolph]

Oh, I am not saying it is right or anything. I am just assuming this must be the rationale used.

 

Anyway, come to think of it, "Doom V" or even "Doom Victory", as suggested by @ApprihensivSoul, would have been a good title for Doom Eternal. After all, it is supposed to be Doom 5!

Edited March 3, 2022 by Rudolph