John Romero releases first new Doom II map to support UN/Red Cross relief in Ukraine

[Ludi]

I mostly just bought it to donate, but I honestly didn't care for this map at all. Way too many hitscanners, and the cyberdemons felt really ham-fisted. Makes me a bit worried for Sigil 2, honestly

[NightFright]

The level is a bit on the short side, but I am sure once it's embedded into the finished Sigil 2 episode, it will make a lot more sense. 10-15 minutes of solid entertainment with occasional "Where's the next eye to shoot" puzzles. It's quite OK, even though Romero's previous standalone maps for the first Doom were considerably better, ofc.

Edited March 4, 2022 by NightFright

[Kute]

42 minutes ago, Sr_Ludicolo said:

Way too many hitscanners, and the cyberdemons felt really ham-fisted

 

The Cyber-demons are optional aren't they? And the hitscanners are... that's how classic Doom maps are. Didn't the map only have like 90 enemies or something? "Way too many" of anything sounds like a stretch. 

 

I love that people are still finding John Romero maps challenging in 2022 though. 

[Pixel Fiend]

Really good to see this. Both the Romero map and its noble cause. The map has no custom midi but I have faith that Sigil 2 will come with excellent music.

[NaturalTvventy]

2 hours ago, TJG1289 said:

This was supposed to be map 5? Wow, I thought it would be mid-game given the difficulty. I could see this as a map 12 or something. If this is map 5, I bet Sigil 2 is going to be much, much harder than Doom 2. 

Map 5 may be a midpoint map, if Romero is doing a single episode of 8 to 10 maps.

[GraphicBleeder]

On 3/2/2022 at 7:42 PM, Biodegradable said:

I hate how powerless I've felt watching this stuff happening in my newsfeed and unable to make some kind of significant donation to Ukraine.

Well, there is this:

https://crisisrelief.un.org/t/ukraine

https://my.care.org/site/Donation2?31127.donation=form1&df_id=31127&mfc_pref=T&s_src=172220UCFDS0&s_subsrc=FY22UkraineCrisisFundDSTN

[Rudolph]

3 hours ago, TJG1289 said:

This was supposed to be map 5? Wow, I thought it would be mid-game given the difficulty. I could see this as a map 12 or something. If this is map 5, I bet Sigil 2 is going to be much, much harder than Doom 2. 

Maybe that is for the best, as Doom II is for the most part underwhelmingly easy.

 

Also, SIGIL was already a step above Thy Flesh Consumed in terms of difficulty, so it would be disappointing if SIGIL II ends up not following suit.

[gwain]

too bad john remaro is getting scamed since he is doing it through a charity but cool map 8/10 in level design 

[Clippy]

Hey Super Charge is a fun time haha couldn't help my self since I payed for this map might as well play it a bunch - def makes the map easier and keeps things interesting - two awesome things mixed togehter

 

 

[Ludi]

4 hours ago, Kute said:

 

The Cyber-demons are optional aren't they? And the hitscanners are... that's how classic Doom maps are. Didn't the map only have like 90 enemies or something? "Way too many" of anything sounds like a stretch. 

 

I love that people are still finding John Romero maps challenging in 2022 though. 

 

True, but I like to UVMAX levels. Considering it's a map released in 2022 and not 1994, the cyberdemon placement is really questionable.

 

I'll agree with you in hindsight about the hitscan though

[Rudolph]

Maybe John Romero is going to use the feedback from this release to rework the version that will be released in SIGIL II?

[TJG1289]

4 hours ago, NaturalTvventy said:

Map 5 may be a midpoint map, if Romero is doing a single episode of 8 to 10 maps.

Didn't he say Sigil 2 was going to be a full 32 level MegaWAD, or am I just dreaming that?

 

Edit: I think I may have dreamed that. Googled links i checked only has him saying it will have a lot of levels.

Edited March 5, 2022 by TJG1289

[ShallowB]

Just finished playing through it myself.  It's a really fun little map!  Definitely gave me some Perfect Hatred vibes, which is good because I actually really like that one too.

 

The chaingunners are diabolical, and the ammo scarcity makes this pretty challenging.  I don't usually pistol start every map, so it'll be interesting to see how differently this plays when it's in the middle of Sigil 2.

 

 

[Immorpher]

Definitely a fantastic cause to support! So I bought it and got it working in the Doom Classic Unity port for some split-screen local COOP action!

 

[BigMetalhead]

I finally bought the WAD.

 

I'm just sitting here unironically being amazed at this:

 

...Yeah I'm easy to please lol.

Edited March 5, 2022 by BigMetalhead

[ShallowB]

I love that broken door trick every time I’ve seen it, but there’s something extra special about seeing Romero do it too! 

[RHhe82]

14 hours ago, Sr_Ludicolo said:

but I honestly didn't care for this map at all. Way too many hitscanners, and the cyberdemons felt really ham-fisted.

I personally loved One Humanity, but gotta agree on the Cyberdemons. I really dislike the habit of putting in high-tier enemies just for the sake of it. Cybers pose a threat here, but personally I would have put a cyberdemon turret somewhere, and by the end of fhe level player could (for example) telefrag it. As someone who also likes to get 100% kills, the cybers of One Humanity feel like a chore to deal with it, and it especially feels like you need to use the invuln sphere against them or suffer the cramped quarters with the bastards.

Edited March 5, 2022 by RHhe82

[Liberation]

I must admit I skipped the cyber on HMP, but the "extra" secret does provide a non-grind way of killing it.

 

I really enjoyed the map, still great to see Romero releasing stuff.

[Dark Pulse]

Made sure I bought into this one the instant I found out about it.

 

Keep it up, Ukraine. Every day you stand strong is another day that dictators like Putin look weak.

[PsychEyeball]

This map was really weird. I really enjoyed most of the indoors sections of the map, I didn't really have any trouble figuring out the progression of the level and how to go through it, I really liked the visual flair that the map has, but I really don't like the central hub most of the map takes place in. It felt a little too chaotic and being plinked at by all of the scattered hitscanners everywhere felt more infuriating than challenging. I will also echo the questionnable cyberdemon placement, it feels really annoying to be blasted to oblivion by cyberdemons that you don't even see, which severely limits your movement options in the late map. Obviously you'll want to stay behind solid walls so that the cyberdemons can't shoot at you, but I don't like the map limiting your options this way.

 

Still glad I played it. It's always nice to have excuses to donate money for a good cause.

[Grimosaur]

10 hours ago, TJG1289 said:

Didn't he say Sigil 2 was going to be a full 32 level MegaWAD, or am I just dreaming that?

 

Edit: I think I may have dreamed that. Googled links i checked only has him saying it will have a lot of levels.

 

I think in Bridgeburner's interview in July last year he confirmed it was going to be a full 32. I suppose it could still be episodic in a way, like how Valiant has a death exit for some levels to put you back to a pistol start. I'm all for Sigil 2 being some Plutonia levels of hard anyway.

 

EDIT: Crap I swear I have a distinct memory of Bridgeburner asking if it's going to be a "full 32" when talking about Sigil 2 in that interview but I can't find it anymore argghhhh I SWEAR he confirmed it somewhere.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Grimosaur

[NaturalTvventy]

The sewer-like southwest portion of the map has a nice little teleport trap which currently isn't functioning. There are four shotgunners who teleport into the area. However because of the openness of the map they activate and teleport as soon as the player fires his first shot.

Edited March 5, 2022 by NaturalTvventy

[Yoshiatom]

I can't be the only person who entered the exit on accident during the final Baron fight. It feels weirdly unmarked.

 

Overall this was a short-and-sweet map. In some regards it felt like it didn't utilise Doom 2 assests a ton but at the same time it feels like it was designed around the SSG when it comes to dealing with the bulkier monsters, although maybe that's just because the map is part of a larger mapset and the final megawad will have more spread out usage of Doom 2 stuff. Also I didn't find the Cyberdemons too bad to avoid but not being able to see them is a bit annoying. It's a fun time in the end.

 

One thing I am curious to see is if this map gets any changes between this release and SIGIL 2's release, seeing as there's some mixed opinions and feedback here. Although I certainly don't have the nerve to say I know better than John Romero =P

[NaturalTvventy]

43 minutes ago, Yoshiatom said:

I can't be the only person who entered the exit on accident during the final Baron fight. It feels weirdly unmarked.

 

I don't think there's a single person who didn't exit on accident the first time. The exit is the same exit style as SIGIL's exits. Romero just didn't bother to add the new texture yet. A lot about the map design indicates it's not the final version.

Edited March 5, 2022 by NaturalTvventy

[Major Arlene]

I did also accidentally my way to the exit, at least with Sigil though there was a known texture that would indicate exit.

[plynthus]

5 hours ago, Grimosaur said:

 

I think in Bridgeburner's interview in July last year he confirmed it was going to be a full 32. I suppose it could still be episodic in a way, like how Valiant has a death exit for some levels to put you back to a pistol start. I'm all for Sigil 2 being some Plutonia levels of hard anyway.

 

EDIT: Crap I swear I have a distinct memory of Bridgeburner asking if it's going to be a "full 32" when talking about Sigil 2 in that interview but I can't find it anymore argghhhh I SWEAR he confirmed it somewhere.

I remember reading comments of people saying it’s going to be full 32 maps.

I didn’t believe it until I heard John say it himself.

I think it must have been the anniversary stream where he played Knee Deep in the Dead.

But the comments were before that though. Probably in the Sigil 2 post here in Doomworld. 
 

I was going to check but I can’t find the stream on twitch or YouTube. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by plynthus

[Nembras]

I finally got around to playing this. I quite like the map, I think "modern Romero's" mapping style fits Doom 2 a lot better than Doom 1.

[Gifty]

No nostalgia, no hero-worship, this is a great map and I'm suddenly WAY excited for Sigil 2, which I'm assuming this was pruned from. Also big respect to John for doing this for the cause.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

22 hours ago, NaturalTvventy said:

The sewer-like southwest portion of the map has a nice little teleport trap which currently isn't functioning. There are four shotgunners who teleport into the area. However because of the openness of the map they activate and teleport as soon as the player fires his first shot.

It's kinda cool seeing that he didn't merge the sectors for sound propagation but made the tiny sound tunnel. Staying true to his roots. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by HrnekBezucha
typo

[Thelokk]

7 minutes ago, HrnekBezucha said:

It's kinda cool seeing that he didn't merge the sectors for sound propagation but made the tiny sound tunnel. Starting true to his roots. 

 

I actually do that a lot when I'm not UDMF mapping. Too many times I merged sectors for sound propagation, and then found myself needing them separate.