What’s the last thing you have done (DOOM RELATED) that has made you feel a bit cheap?

[CoolerDoomeR]

I was stuck in Sunder map02 but i saw some youtube videos and then i passed the level with some tactics(Dodging the Revenant and cyberdemon rockets) and i was feeling cheap.

So if anyone is stuck at some doom levels just go search the youtube.

[Major Arlene]

2 hours ago, CoolerDoomeR said:

 i passed the level with some tactics(Dodging the Revenant and cyberdemon rockets) and i was feeling cheap.

Uh, isn't dodging attacks what you're supposed to do in a video game?

[Nine Inch Heels]

5 hours ago, Major Arlene said:

Offensive is pretty general- improving skill isn't just brute-forcing fights, it's learning how to use the space provided, where you can get kills in, etc. I'm obviously no expert at the game but getting good at Doom, especially for custom levels, isn't just "shoot more and faster".

There is a very pronounced difference between escaping an area where the fight was meant to take place, only to kill the enemies within from a place of absolute safety, and "using the terrain features of the respective 'arena' to one's advantage". One requires situational and spatial awareness, the other does not.

 

And TOD is right on the money when he says that, if the goal is to improve one's skills, then it is usually best to be able to face any one particular monster as head on as possible, because the harder the PWADs you play become, the less likely you are going to be able to use cover-tactics all the time, because there just might not even be any cover at all - even if there was, winning without needing to use said cover is still a very valid expression of skill...

 

The OP clearly played with a certain goal in mind, and despite the supposedly poor wording: If you don't want to be told how you should feel about playing the way you play the maps you enjoy, then you are in no position whatsoever to tell somebody else how they should feel about the way they made it past a fight when the way they won didn't feel right to them.

 

Yes, we get it alright. You have to deal with complaints about the way you play on stream all the damn time. You don't play hard stuff on UV, you use revive cheats, you do whatever you think serves your goals the best, and people scrutinize that. It sucks. Regardless, I would suggest you try not to insert yourself and your very own, personal grievances with an audience you cultivated into situations that somebody else feels a certain way about for their very own reasons. There are very few cases where an argument can be made that the way someone "feels" about something is "objectively wrong" (ie laborious and frustrating save-scumming vs punching in IDDQD) - this isn't one of those cases.

[Thelokk]

I never feel cheap, why should I? Doom is not my job, I have no intention to endure any kind of frustration. As soon as I feel like IDDQDing, I do it. 

[Major Arlene]

26 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Yes, we get it alright. You have to deal with complaints about the way you play on stream all the damn time. You don't play hard stuff on UV, you use revive cheats, you do whatever you think serves your goals the best, and people scrutinize that. It sucks. Regardless, I would suggest you try not to insert yourself and your very own, personal grievances with an audience you cultivated into situations that somebody else feels a certain way about for their very own reasons. There are very few cases where an argument can be made that the way someone "feels" about something is "objectively wrong" (ie laborious and frustrating save-scumming vs punching in IDDQD) - this isn't one of those cases.

With interest of not derailing the thread, my comments really had nothing to do with how I personally play or what I deal with on stream (which, I very rarely get comments these days about my shitty play, unless it's me about myself, and I very rarely use revive cheats anymore) just how the game as a whole/levels function. Cover exists in one form or another, it's common sense to use it, or at the very least, it's not a bad thing to use it. That's all I was really trying to head off. You're perfectly entitled to the rest of your opinion, as is anyone. I didn't particularly say that anything was wrong, just pointed to where it didn't make sense to me. 🤷‍♀️

 

[Grain of Salt]

11 hours ago, TimeOfDeath666 said:

For me, I've been seriously considering making some easy low-difficulty maps now that I don't use a mouse anymore and I feel cheap, dirty, and embarrassed.

 

But you had to change the way you played because of an actual injury, that's not something to be embarrassed about

 

 

Sorry, I added lobster activity accidentally

Edited March 11, 2022 by Grain of Salt

[Astronomical]

6 hours ago, Major Arlene said:

Uh, isn't dodging attacks what you're supposed to do in a video game?

Personally I have been finishing wads I play.  I feel cheep not being bulldozed by every map anymore.  I have also felt cheep using tactics like picking up healing items and shooting monsters. 

[head_cannon]

I haven't yet gotten around to trying the sequel, but I enjoyed many of the levels in the first Plutonia Revisited Community Project. Project leader Joshy contributed three maps, and the first two were exactly what I like to see in a tribute project, riffing on Congo & Caughtyard by taking the familiar structure and then tweaking and amplifying things so that the additions feel like an interesting evolution of the template.

 

The third one, though, was something else. (Map26: Poison Ivy III) The visuals were on point as always, and I appreciate that there were entire rooms that were references to The Sewers & Impossible Mission (along with the way the color palette from Tombstone is used in one section), but the sheer scale & lethality of that fiendish opening sequence marked this as not a Plutonic map but instead a distinctly Joshy creation. Every section managed to play a little bit differently from the others, but they were uniformly quite demanding. I was impressed by the consistently high level of brutality that never tipped over into unfairness. Call it stockholm syndrome if you will, but I even ended up enjoying the map’s head-scratching “how the hell am i even supposed to get started here” beginning section.

 

I think it's really cool how if you go for the Red Key early, you can steal the BFG from the Cyberdemon's room and use it in the rest of the map. But sooner or later, you're going to have to go in there to access the exit. It's a really cramped space that guarantees constant exposure to splash damage, and, uh, I had absolutely no intention of doing that encounter at knife-fight range.

 

So at the end of the map, after everything else was done, I came back to this room and parked outside the entrance, waiting for the brief moments where the boss passed in front of the doorway and spending every single bullet I had left to soften him up. I still had to dive in and pray that BFG tracers would finish the job before I got blown up, but thankfully his HP ran out before mine did. Looking back over the demo, it's a little boring how it just stops dead for two and a half minutes, but I'm still proud that I got an exit on that monster of a map, and I have no regrets.

[CoolerDoomeR]

9 hours ago, Major Arlene said:

Uh, isn't dodging attacks what you're supposed to do in a video game?

Yes.

[Stabbey]

Sometimes some mappers ask that you turn off free look for maps designed to not use free look. That's fair enough, but I don't do that. I leave free look on. I don't use it to hit shootable switches which it doesn't look like I would be able to shoot without free look. but I do use it to attack enemies which are on a different plane and which might not be hittable if free look was off, because I consider that to be cheap... for the mapper to do.

[JTavares]

On 3/10/2022 at 8:59 AM, Major Arlene said:

Can we please, please stop referring to using strats other than killing everything head-on (and, god forbid, using saves, a feature literally built into the game) as "cheap"? a strat is a strat is a strat and all of them are valid, especially the one OP describes- I do it all the time in maps that allow it. Cover is put in maps often for a reason, whether that be walls, doors, etc. Self-preservation is not a cheap strat.

Amen.