Does Anyone Else Get Frustrated When YouTubers Do Doom Dirty?

[Old-Doomguy]

15 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Look, some people have opinions about Doom that are wrong, and that’s just fine. They have the right to that opinion, and I have the right to point out that they’re a misinformed goober who rushed into Doom as quickly as they could when they saw it was a somewhat trendy game to talk about on YT.

 

It’s a win-win, right? I get to exercise my passion for Doom by occasionally debunking moronic, baseless claims, and they get to exercise their passion for ad revenue from shoddily researched videos. What’s not to love? (The “shoddy research” types are the exception rather than the norm though, thankfully)

 

EDIT: I’m very sympathetic to the place act is coming from in the OP, although comparing DOS Doom - one of the most fun and influential EXEs ever to grace humanity - to “garbage by the wayside” just because it lacks feature bloat is a hard pill to swallow :)

 

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dont take this too seriously plz

 

 

 

Well you once rekd that dudes video about "The Doom unity remake" so he removed it, which was entertaining. You a good man.

[rzh]

10 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

(like the fans of a certain 90's fps franchise from Bungie).

But I like Marathon...

[MemeMind]

There is a correlation of someone's knowledge of Doom and the amount of Gzdoom default settings they use.

 

Doom aside I see this alot, someone may mention a game and show a bit of gameplay, but its always footage from the start of the game. I understand that a creator just wants a visual of a game, but its always so weird noticing it. 

[Hyacsho]

Fair enough pal, then what source ports do you suggest I use?

[hybridial]

On 3/20/2022 at 4:26 AM, MattFright said:

The only kind of situation i'd consider as YouTubers doing Doom dirty is covering it with Brutal Doom as some sort of "obvious improvement". Most of them do so implying (if not outright stating) they think it's a net upgrade over the (or at least how they perceive it as) clunky, weightless, weak and poorly aged unmodded feel of classic doom gameplay...

 

They think that because they didn't bother actually playing Doom's original gameplay for more than one playthrough. It becomes obvious after a while how perfectly balanced it all is. And it's none of those adjectives. There's a reason it was a relevation in 1993. It hasn't aged at all. It's still preferable to me to a lot of FPS games; what has aged a bit is the level design of the original campaigns but plenty of other choices on that.  

[Nikku4211]

5 hours ago, Hyacsho said:

Fair enough pal, then what source ports do you suggest I use?

I think it's good to try Chocolate Doom for a change.

 

And if that's too oldschool, try PrBoom+.

[jazzmaster9]

Not really. The Source port wars belong in the early 2000s. Im just happy seeing people play Classic Doom.

[StrangerRanger]

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." - Quote I read somewhere once

[BGreener]

“Doom is unplayable without MODNAMEHERE”, “Doom never had official mouse support” - I can’t say I get upset with these statements but they sure do interest me.

 

At the same time, I no longer get exposed to many statements like that since I stopped going to Reddit and ceased interacting with Youtube comments.

[Fluuschoen]

On 3/20/2022 at 9:25 PM, Dark Pulse said:

Holding Doom up to modern FPS standards, or hell, even late 90s FPS standards, is absolutely silly. Holding it up to 1993 standards? Now we're talking.

I'm not so sure about this. I hold it up to 2022 standards, and this is why 99 percent of my gaming in the last good 2 years was compleveled classic Doom. 

[ApprihensivSoul]

Honestly, as I've mentioned many times in similar threads, I do find Doom's original monster/weapon balance to be kind of sluggish and wonky, and fully disagree with the "Perfectly Balanced" perspective. I also find that a tad element of blurring on the final image (good lord, not the texels!) improves the overall experience when running on digital displays (I'm a CRT fanboy, and those were never crisp. Doom was designed to run on such, and so I only play in 16:10 resolutions.) 

But that said, everything in Doom is a taste thing. Brutal Doom is a coding nightmare, but the end result can be kind of fun in the right mindset. But it in no way represents what Doom was, and so cannot be sold as a "Straight Replacement." (I'd recommend NOTMAID instead for people looking for something like that, but even that is a substantially different game.)

So I guess my final opinion is: If you're going to represent something in a video, do the dang research on the mindset and goal with which it was designed, and the general role it serves in the community, especially if your brand is expertise on a relevant topic. Don't call BD a replacement, use Bilinear if you like it (which I don't, not the way it appears in defaults,) but don't treat it as "The GZDooM look" when the engine has so many other options, and understand that both Vanilla and PRBoom+ are still held in such high regard for a very tested series of reasons. And yeah, I definitely get bothered by people like GMan portraying something as something it's not in that regard. I don't mind disagreeing with an expert take, but I'd at least like that take to come from a perspective I can respect. (Like Dean of Doom, for instance, pro-TNT biasing me notwithstanding.)

[act]

9 hours ago, Hyacsho said:

Fair enough pal, then what source ports do you suggest I use?

Woof!. 100%. Runs the best out of every source port, completely modular and has -complevel so you can play Doom either 100% like DOSBox, or in a way with plenty of actually useful quality-of-live changes.

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

29 minutes ago, act said:

Woof!. 100%

Nugget Doom deserves love too :-)

 

[Dark Pulse]

2 hours ago, Fluuschoen said:

I'm not so sure about this. I hold it up to 2022 standards, and this is why 99 percent of my gaming in the last good 2 years was compleveled classic Doom. 

I mean a specific thing by this though.

 

For example, someone complaining that their health doesn't regenerate, and so the game is lame because you have to actually go and find health, while ignoring that that thing was a convention of Post-2000s shooters, and that finding health pickups was totally normal throughout the 90s.

 

To me, that's holding Doom to a different standard that existed when it came out, and it'd be something that would make me tune you out.

 

You, obviously, are saying that Doom can still be good and fun to play even by modern standards 30 years later, which is a whole different animal. :)

[Fluuschoen]

36 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

For example, someone complaining that their health doesn't regenerate, and so the game is lame because you have to actually go and find health, while ignoring that that thing was a convention of Post-2000s shooters, and that finding health pickups was totally normal throughout the 90s.

 
I tend to ignore clueless "press click to win" lamers like that. : D

I mean I have only one standard in FPS games, and that would be the '90s. Fast-paced, brutal, unforgiving, advanced movement physics, needs resource management, zero spoon-feeding and can be totally one-sided in multiplayer. Being highly customizable and being able to make a proper cfg is also a pretty crucial matter. This is why I played Quakes for SO long and the reason why I'm knee-deep in Doom now. The rest is 99 percent strolling in the park. Slow, clunky, restricted and generally speaking way too easy. To put it bluntly, modern standards suck. I respect CS though, but it's far from my tree.

The only two FPS games I loved in multiplayer which came after 2000 are CoD 4: Modern Warfare in 2007, and Apex Legends (well, except for Quake Live, in which I have about 4k hours, but this exception is basically a given). Especially the former on hardcore servers or with ProMod, but hey, it's heavily based on id Tech 3, the movement/physics also has some overlapping and even many console cvars are exactly the same. On the other hand, Apex needs an engine and server park overhaul, but it's cool stuff in essence. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Fluuschoen

[Roebloz]

I used to play GZDoom exclusively (Albeit with the texture filtering off), but then when my PC broke and I had to use my XP one, I had to switch to LZDoom and (I kid you not) WinDoom. (Yes, that prototype thing). Since then I've used Zandronum, and never looked back.

 

[CherubCorps]

My biggest pet peeve is when I see youtubers do a "Top ten megawads" video and they list brutal doom or "Top ten Doom mods" and it's composed entirely of map packs and total conversions. Wads, mods, and TCs are different things. It's on par with making a video on screwdrivers and not knowing the difference between a flat head and a Phillip's head. 

[wallabra]

Ehh, I mean, I'm sure it's fine. Anyway, what's a doom again?

[Nikku4211]

48 minutes ago, RomDump said:

or "Top ten Doom mods" and it's composed entirely of map packs and total conversions. Wads, mods, and TCs are different things.

 

What term do I use to group Doom WADs, Doom PK3s, Doom PK7s, and Doom PKEs together?

[Bridgeburner56]

Any coverage of Doom that gets more people playing Doom is good coverage in my eyes. If it generate curiosity or interest and leads people to experiencing things for themselves? Forming their own opinions? Playing the game and enjoying it? Good shit.

[Hyacsho]

10 hours ago, Nikku4211 said:

I think it's good to try Chocolate Doom for a change.

 

And if that's too oldschool, try PrBoom+.

Great, thanks for the suggestion. 

Honestly, I personally only use GZDoom because it's what I was taught, don't mind using others of course, doesn't matter too much to me :D 

 

Chocolate Doom will be given a fair shake then :D 

[Hyacsho]

6 hours ago, act said:

Woof!. 100%. Runs the best out of every source port, completely modular and has -complevel so you can play Doom either 100% like DOSBox, or in a way with plenty of actually useful quality-of-live changes.

Thanks for the suggestion then dude, 

I'll check it out for my next run. 

 

Currently playing through Elementalism on GZDoom, but then I'll try this one out, and apparently Chocolate Doom is a thing :D 

[Faceman2000]

16 hours ago, ApprihensivSoul said:

I'd recommend NOTMAID

What is NOTMAID?

[act]

10 hours ago, Hyacsho said:

Thanks for the suggestion then dude, 

I'll check it out for my next run. 

 

Currently playing through Elementalism on GZDoom, but then I'll try this one out, and apparently Chocolate Doom is a thing :D 

Chocolate doom is great, don't get me wrong. But I'd call it more "acquired taste" than anything. Its lack of - even basic - visual improvements, such as upscaling the resolution of the game to something above 320x200 are absent. Woof! has literally everything in this regard; you can allow for blurry DOS-like visuals at 1080p in at least 360FPS. And if you don't like it, you can turn on high-resolution to unblur everything and make it look just like GZDoom in Software Rendering.

[Dark Pulse]

4 hours ago, Faceman2000 said:

What is NOTMAID?

[ApprihensivSoul]

That is a think of beauty. 

I was thinking of "Nobody Told Me About ID", because Build engine games tend to ape the Doom formula as their baseline and expand from there, so a "Buildlike" Doom system seems like a logical progression given history. But it's still a substantially different game, and there's some things about it even I don't think are super fitting in Doom. (For instance, I'm a centered weapons snob.)

[idbeholdME]

On 3/21/2022 at 6:16 AM, brick said:

The NSWE travel is a compatibility flag, unless it's not working the way it should (at which point it may be worth letting the devs know) you can change it to vanilla behaviour.

Never mind then about the movement. Turns out that you indeed can actually change that. My info was obviously outdated.

 

That leaves only the RNG behavior as the only thing that I can think of that can't be reverted to vanilla at the moment.

 

On 3/21/2022 at 6:16 AM, brick said:

For the default settings, I get what you mean, but I don't think I agree with your phrasing. Of course you can only achieve exactly what you (or I) want by fine-tuning, that's the whole point. But if you want just bulk behaviour similar to vanilla, the presets work fine (especially the Strict versions). I actually like being able to start from a general "everything like Doom" and then only change the things that I want to something else (usually Strict Doom but with no infinite tall - I really hate that and do not miss it).

 

It might also be a naming issue, but Default isn't "Doom Default", it's just all compat flags turned off. Useful for modern TCs that set their own (or don't use any) flags, not something to play any older wads with. The Invis behaviour works as in vanilla for any of the Doom/Boom presets, for example.

I used pretty much the same method. Doom Strict and then went over all the options one by one and customized it to my taste (removing bugs, limits etc.).

 

The main point I was trying to make was that a lot of people will just run GZDoom and click New Game, without ever even checking the options. IIRC, the display options also require tuning to make it look like Doom should, which often leads to seeing "filtered" textures in gameplay videos on the internet and such. Which some people might consider, as the topic name says, "doing Doom dirty".

Edited March 23, 2022 by idbeholdME

[blackthorn]

The main peeve I have these days, although not limited to certain sections of YouTube, are the number of people I see claiming that the PlayStation port of Doom is the “best version” of the game.

[D4NUK1]

46 minutes ago, blackthorn said:

The main peeve I have these days, although not limited to certain sections of YouTube, are the number of people I see claiming that the PlayStation port of Doom is the “best version” of the game.

 I never see comments like this, unless it's vídeo comparing multiple consoles port of Doom and well...PSX Doom it's the best.

[blackthorn]

1 hour ago, D4NUK1 said:

 I never see comments like this, unless it's vídeo comparing multiple consoles port of Doom and well...PSX Doom it's the best.

As far as the console ports go, fine, but I’ve definitely seen more than one YouTuber proclaim it to be the best version, including over the PC original (usually with some reasoning based around the soundtrack).