Real music/MP3s vs MIDI in WADs / Music for my next map

[Cheesebone]

So I've kind of been convinced that I should do actual music instead of midi music for this map I'm working on. It's also apparent to me that for whatever reason, old-school Doomers have a tendency to gravitate towards liking heavier music (and the newer and OG Doom game soundtracks had tons of metal influence too)

 

I actually ended up with a career in music myself and *love* writing and playing metal, so I think I'm gonna write an entire custom track for the map. A few months ago I wrote a riff section for a series of "riffmas" videos and I was thinking this one would make a good intro for a whole song to embed in the wad - but I dunno, I kinda want your opinions as to whether or not this kind of music seems fitting for a Doom2 style map, and if you think I should build off of... The whole video is like 50 seconds long so it won't take much time to check out. Is this "too busy" for a Doom map?

 

Thanks for any feedback!
 

-Dave

 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Cheesebone

["JL" was too short]

Not to be confrontational but just out of curiosity, why do you consider MIDI music as not actual music?

[Cheesebone]

 

2 minutes ago, jerrysheppy said:

Not to be confrontational but just out of curiosity, why do you consider MIDI music as not actual music?

 

I don't mean that at all, lol, it was poor wording. I mean like a higher quality audio track, mp3, that kind of thing. When I think of Doom I am still reminded of the classic E1M1 "sound" and originally I wanted to keep that same feel for the map, but I've also been told by a lot of other people on other sites too that they'd prefer an embedded original MP3 instead of the old midi approach.

 

I use midi anyway when recording these heavier songs, because I program the drums for them using a midi multisampler, lol, so technically the audio above still has "midi music" in it. *points BFG at own foot*

 

-Dave

["JL" was too short]

That makes sense!  I figured you probably meant something like that.

[ax34]

Ogg/vorbis can give the same quality as mp3 at lower bitrates. And afaik even more ports support it than mp3.

Edited March 20, 2022 by ax34

[Lippeth]

I'm always going to prefer MIDI to recorded audio for Doom's style in most cases, and consider it the "higher quality" route. But that's the beauty of mapping and modding, to let your own creative vision shine, so if you're more inclined to record something then go for it! Not everyone's going to agree with your decision no matter what it is, but if it feels right to you then it's worth exploring.

[Cheesebone]

Right? I feel there's more nostalgia to the older midi style.

 

Maybe I'll just release two versions with midi sounds and another with live instrument sounds instead. That's definitely gonna take more time though lol.

[D4NUK1]

I'm fond of the music in other formats if it's well done and don't clash the ear if I'm playing the same map for a long time.

 

For example, playing with Andrew hulshot Metal Doom remix and Buckethead OST in sigil makes more memorable some levels in comparative with other's MIDI, and also just something to take in account when playing this .wad.

 

Tl; more simple explanation : if it's sounds good for the length of the level and have a good mixing to not clash or hurt ears if playing to long, it's appreciated.

 

This it's my personal opinion of courses.

[Nikku4211]

Nice physical guitar music.

 

I don't find any issues with streamed music in Doom WADs, other than the file size being really high since even compressed MP3s and OGGs tend to be full mebibytes, and also it's hard to loop MP3s, which is one thing OGG does better(another is Vorbis' better quality for the same bitrate).

 

Of course, most people are accustomed to buying a new SSD drive every few months or so, and a lot of people also have really good internet connections, so I understand that a lot of people just don't care about file size like I do. Feel free to express your musical ability however you feel most comfortable.

 

Just keep in mind that vanilla Doom and some early source ports don't support streamed music.

 

But for your typical ZDoom derivative and PrBoom+, those support streamed music in WADs, and Chocolate/Crispy Doom/RUDE support using streamed music packs stored separately from WADs.

 

To be honest, there are other formats that do give a consistent quality (compared to MIDI) that can be really compact in terms of size, often tracker formats like MOD/S3M/XM/IT/669/etc as well as some ripped video game console music formats like SPC and NSF.

 

ZDoom supports a couple of these, and surprisingly, PrBoom+ also supports tracker music formats, since PrBoom+ has the MikMod library.

 

As for clashing, I can't tell what kind of music would clash or not, and I'm going to get to why later on in this post. Even then, there are definitely situations where clashing works.

 

Quote

I don't mean that at all, lol, it was poor wording.

 

A reminder: you can edit the title of this thread to be more accurate by editing the first post.

 

I was about to rant about how annoying it is that people consider a lot of digital music to not be 'real music', or that everyone keeps drawing arbitrary lines on what counts as 'real music' often to explicitly delegitimise some digital audio technologies perceived as 'outdated'.

But I'm glad you have admitted it's just poor wording on your part.

 

Quote

I mean like a higher quality audio track, mp3, that kind of thing. When I think of Doom I am still reminded of the classic E1M1 "sound" and originally I wanted to keep that same feel for the map, but I've also been told by a lot of other people on other sites too that they'd prefer an embedded original MP3 instead of the old midi approach.

 

Mm... I'm afraid that's still not right. MIDIs played on SC-55s can be considered 'higher quality' audio tracks.

 

MIDIs don't have a consistent sound. They sound different depending on what you are using to play them.

 

Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth is the most common way for people to listen to MIDIs when playing Doom and it's basically a heavily cut-down SCC-1 sample set, and SCC-1 runs on heavily cut-down SC-55 audio hardware.

Some people emulate OPL2 or OPL3 chips, used in Adlib and Sound Blaster sound cards popular back in the 1990s, which use FM synthesis and have a completely different sound compared to sampled audio.

And some people use soundfonts they find on the internet with either TiMIDIty++ or FluidSynth, which can sound very different depending on what soundfont is used.

 

Overall, a MIDI just doesn't have a sound. It's just sheet music that has to be given a sound by a MIDI player, sound card, or MIDI module.

 

Perhaps the term you are looking for is 'consistent quality', because MP3s and other streamed audio formats like Vorbis and Opus (don't know how many Doom source ports support Opus) sound basically the same no matter what you use to play them. Sure, some might be played using different resamplers, which can slightly change how they sound, but their sound is mostly consistent.

 

This means that I have no idea what would count as 'clashing' with the Doom aesthetic, since the original vanilla Doom supports multiple sound cards and MIDI modules.

We all know Bobby Prince composed the music on an SC-55, and most people at the time played Doom on Adlib or Sound Blaster or Pro Audio Spectrum sound cards, but some people at the time indeed did use Gravis Ultrasound, Wave Blaster, and AWE32 sound cards, which were capable of 'wavetable synthesis' or playing sequenced music using sampled instruments, and often high quality sampled instruments.

 

Not that I'd really easily associate 320x200 256-colour Mode Y graphics with a specific sound technology anyway.

 

Quote

I use midi anyway when recording these heavier songs, because I program the drums for them using a midi multisampler, lol, so technically the audio above still has "midi music" in it. *points BFG at own foot*

 

Eh, a lot of musicians even now use MIDI input from, like, a keyboard or a touchpad(or whatever you call them), and MIDIs are still commonly supported by modern DAWs as a digital sheet music format.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Nikku4211

[Jacek Bourne]

If you want to use another format for music then use it. Just make sure it is compatible with the map format you intend to pair it with.

[Cheesebone]

I get that, I was just asking if people seem to prefer the sound of "live instruments" over the midi tracks as background music for the maps.

[Lippeth]

MIDIfy it!

CheeseboneRiff4.zip

Spoiler

Sorry if this is unwarranted, was having a bit of fun.

 

While I usually prefer MIDI, recorded audio never took away from a good experience.

[Cheesebone]

3 hours ago, Lippeth said:

MIDIfy it!

CheeseboneRiff4.zip

  Reveal hidden contents

Sorry if this is unwarranted, was having a bit of fun.

 

While I usually prefer MIDI, recorded audio never took away from a good experience.

Oh dear lord this just made my day, hahaha!! That's awesome! 

[brick]

5 hours ago, Cheesebone said:

I get that, I was just asking if people seem to prefer the sound of "live instruments" over the midi tracks as background music for the maps.

Personally I like both. The only thing I would really care about is hearing it the way you intend it to sound. Easy with "live" obviously, but also very possible with MIDI: if you compose your MIDIs using the default Windows GS synth, or a particular soundfont, and you specify what it is, then I would try to play using that soundfont. I realize I care more about this kind of fidelity than most though, frankly I think people will play your map regardless of what you choose.

[NinthBurn]

17 hours ago, Lippeth said:

MIDIfy it!

CheeseboneRiff4.zip

  Reveal hidden contents

Sorry if this is unwarranted, was having a bit of fun.

 

While I usually prefer MIDI, recorded audio never took away from a good experience.

This is so cool! Mind if I use it?

[Cheesebone]

I have no issues at all - just try to credit me and Lippeth for whatever you use it for, I guess. As long as he's cool with it too, lol.

[Cheesebone]

19 minutes ago, NinthBurn said:

This is so cool! Mind if I use it?

I have no issues at all - just try to credit me and Lippeth for whatever you use it for, I guess. As long as he's cool with it too, lol.

[Lippeth]

24 minutes ago, NinthBurn said:

This is so cool! Mind if I use it?

Go for it! I assume no ownership of the composition, but at least try and add my name to the footnotes for the midi part.

[NinthBurn]

I will credit both of you, of course! Thanks for letting me use it!

[Cheesebone]

Rock on homie

 

[Murdoch]

Great track. As for the midi versus not midi question, honestly I am good with either so long as it fits the map well.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Murdoch