Can enemies' corpses be teleported after they've been killed?

[CittyKat112]

Hello everyone, so I'm making a map and I want to make a trap that involves chaingunners in the chambers above the player that get replaced by arch-viles after the player kills those chaingunners and presses some switches. The problem I'm trying to solve is that arch-viles immediately start resurrecting those chaingunners and I want their corpses to be teleported right after the switches have been pressed. They can't teleport before the switches have been pressed because I put imps on their teleport destinations, so after pressing those switches the imps will be moved a bit to free those sectors. So I want to teleport those chaingunners' corpses before arch-viles will spawn in those chambers... Is it possible? I did some testing and couldn't get any positive results. I'm using Boom format.

[Vermil]

I don't think it is possible at Boom level.

 

I think the best that could be done is using Dehacked to make either a new variant of either the Chaingunner without a raise state (or it's last death frame automatically goes into the teleporter fog states), or a new Archvile without the ability to ressurect.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Vermil

[ImproversGaming]

So this was the bad idea I had in mind, illustrated in full 2D glory. The chaingunner stands on the platform in the space available (grey) shooting at Doomguy.

There is a lower height area directly behind them (also grey) that has a teleporter (red) on it but they cannot access it until they are dead.

They are confined to this ledge. If they are shot and killed then most likely (I think): 1) momentum carries the body backwards and, as it is zero height, it hits the teleporter sector and the corpse goes somewhere else or 2) momentum carries the body forward off the ledge. In either case they move away from the Arch Viles.

 

This is based on my shaky belief that corpses do teleport and corpses have zero height.

 

Sorry, thought I would clarify this point but will otherwise leave you alone to get on with it.

Good luck.

 

[Dark Pulse]

52 minutes ago, CittyKat112 said:

Hello everyone, so I'm making a map and I want to make a trap that involves chaingunners in the chambers above the player that get replaced by arch-viles after the player kills those chaingunners and presses some switches. The problem I'm trying to solve is that arch-viles immediately start resurrecting those chaingunners and I want their corpses to be teleported right after the switches have been pressed. They can't teleport before the switches have been pressed because I put imps on their teleport destinations, so after pressing those switches the imps will be moved a bit to free those sectors. So I want to teleport those chaingunners' corpses before arch-viles will spawn in those chambers... Is it possible? I did some testing and couldn't get any positive results. I'm using Boom format.

I doubt it's possible in Boom, but something like that would definitely be doable via Doom-in-Hexen (or anything with ACS support, such as UDMF).

[CittyKat112]

1 minute ago, Vermil said:

I don't think it is possible at Boom level.

 

I think the best that could be done is using Dehacked to make either a new variant of either the Chaingunner without a raise state (or it's last death frame automatically goes into the teleporter fog states), or a new Archvile without the ability to ressurect.

I thought of adding castrated arch-viles, but I never used Dehacked so I was thinking maybe there is a workaround... It seems like I have no choice now. Welp, I guess it's time to download Dehacked and watch some tutorials on it :D

Thanks for helping me out with this!

[CittyKat112]

1 minute ago, Dark Pulse said:

I doubt it's possible in Boom, but something like that would definitely be doable via Doom-in-Hexen (or anything with ACS support, such as UDMF).

I'll probably never use those, I'm a dumbass and don't know how to script and another reason for me not to use UDMF is that I'm not planning on to use 3D floors or make maps with super duper complicated architecture haha.

[Stabbey]

What if you make it so that there isn't enough room for both the AV and Chaingunner on the platform? Surely it won't resurrect if it won't fit, right? There is that problem of enemies not liking to attack if there isn't enough room to move, but that's something you could at least take a shot at trying.

[CittyKat112]

1 minute ago, Stabbey said:

What if you make it so that there isn't enough room for both the AV and Chaingunner on the platform? Surely it won't resurrect if it won't fit, right? There is that problem of enemies not liking to attack if there isn't enough room to move, but that's something you could at least take a shot at trying.

What a coincidence, I 'kinda' tried it lol :D The platforms I made for those arch-viles used to be so small they wouldn't attack unless I shot at them. Had to give them more space because I either had to attack them myself or it would take too long for them to start zapping me. I've already downloaded WhackEd, will watch some tutorials later and gonna try to turn a Wolfenstein guy into an unrevivable chaingunner. Thanks for the reply!

[Dark Pulse]

28 minutes ago, CittyKat112 said:

I'll probably never use those, I'm a dumbass and don't know how to script and another reason for me not to use UDMF is that I'm not planning on to use 3D floors or make maps with super duper complicated architecture haha.

Not like you HAVE to use any of those if you do UDMF. You can do 3D Floors outside of those map formats, as well.

[CittyKat112]

1 minute ago, Dark Pulse said:

Not like you HAVE to use any of those if you do UDMF. You can do 3D Floors outside of those map formats, as well.

Outside of UDMF? Even in Boom? I read about 3D floors on DoomWiki and didn't find Boom-compatible ports in the list of ports that support 3D floors, so I thought it's impossible to make them in Boom format. I do know it's possible to make 3D bridges though.

[Nine Inch Heels]

Depending on how you set things up, and let's just assume the chainers are somehow used as "turrets", you can teleport their corpses out of the way before the viles come in, and it wouldn't even be particularly difficult to accomplish, even in boom format... But the stipulation is that the chaingunners need to be confined to sectors you have some control over... If they can move around freely, then it's not going to be doable/not worth the effort...

[CittyKat112]

3 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Depending on how you set things up, and let's just assume the chainers are somehow used as "turrets", you can teleport their corpses out of the way before the viles come in, and it wouldn't even be particularly difficult to accomplish, even in boom format... But the stipulation is that the chaingunners need to be confined to sectors you have some control over... If they can move around freely, then it's not going to be doable/not worth the effort...

Yeah, that's the problem, I can't restrain them because after that arch-viles won't be much of a treat. And the other problem is that I never managed to get them to teleport after killing them, so I'm just gonna try to add a custom chaingunner. Would still love to hear how to pull it off as I think it will be useful for anyone who'll have a similar setup for a trap in mind!

[Nine Inch Heels]

Didn't you say the chaingunners were somehow on some "platform" above the player..? I would assume in a place where they player can't go before the viles show up..?

 

If so, then that might be all that's required to make things work, because that's the important part.. the chainers and the player need to be kept separate before the viles come in...

[CittyKat112]

9 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Didn't you say the chaingunners were somehow on some "platform" above the player..? I would assume in a place where they player can't go before the viles show up..?

 

If so, then that might be all that's required to make things work, because that's the important part.. the chainers and the player need to be kept separate before the viles come in...

Yeah, the player can't get there. There's supposed to be four switches that will lower the floors preventing arch-viles from teleporting during the second phase of the fight, but I didn't add them yet. I only tested the first phase with chaingunners, I tried making teleporter linedefs occupy most of the chaingunners' space, but that didn't work. I think they couldn't teleport because their death animation stopped, so idk how to get around that :D 

Edited March 21, 2022 by CittyKat112

[Dark Pulse]

36 minutes ago, CittyKat112 said:

Outside of UDMF? Even in Boom? I read about 3D floors on DoomWiki and didn't find Boom-compatible ports in the list of ports that support 3D floors, so I thought it's impossible to make them in Boom format. I do know it's possible to make 3D bridges though.

I stand corrected on that. It is Doom-in-Hexen or UDMF; Boom can't do it besides the oldschool tricks.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Dark Pulse

[Nine Inch Heels]

Okay... (should be) Easy enough...

 

What you need is "action 247 - scroll things when sector changes height" (or so it's called) definitely action 247 though...

 

What it does is scroll things on the floor of the target sector when for example the ceiling in a control sector lowers or raises. Since the chainers won't have any inclination to jump off their platforms, that's where you're gonna scroll their corpses (towards the edge of their respective platforms). Then, after a short delay you should be able to wire into a voodoo conveyor, you warp the viles in... It's really that simple...

 

What's not so simple is figuring out how to set up the control sectors and the orientation of the respective linedefs, but I think that's something you should be able to figure out on your own...

 

-You want 1 control sector that "changes height" for each of the platforms there

 

-One of the lines of these control sectors you'll assign action 247 (make sure you get the orientation of the linedef right, will require some testing)

 

-Place a teleport line such that the chainers won't cross it "naturally" (they will cross it and teleport if their centre-point "hits" or "passes" the teleport line)

 

-After the switches have been activated, before the viles warp in, have a short delay in place, perhaps even no more than a second (depends on the length of the linedef that's part of the control sector as well as the speed at which the ceiling raises/lowers) and change the sector height of your control just once, like "ceiling lower to floor" or whatever.

 

-Scroll the corpses in the direction of the teleport line, watch the viles show up, and that's it

Edited March 21, 2022 by Nine Inch Heels

[Btyb88]

8 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Okay... (should be) Easy enough...

 

What you need is "action 247 - scroll things when sector changes height" (or so it's called) definitely action 247 though...

 

What it does is scroll things on the floor of the target sector when for example the ceiling in a control sector lowers or raises. Since the chainers won't have any inclination to jump off their platforms, that's where you're gonna scroll their corpses (towards the edge of their respective platforms). Then, after a short delay you should be able to wire into a voodoo conveyor, you warp the viles in... It's really that simple...

 

What's not so simple is figuring out how to set up the control sectors and the orientation of the respective linedefs, but I think that's something you should be able to figure out on your own...

 

-You want 1 control sector that "changes height" for each of the platforms there

 

-One of the lines of these control sectors you'll assign action 247 (make sure you get the orientation of the linedef right, will require some testing)

 

-Place a teleport line such that the chainers won't cross it "naturally" (they will cross it and teleport if their centre-point "hits" or "passes" the teleport line)

 

-After the switches have been activated, before the viles warp in, have a short delay in place, perhaps even no more than a second (depends on the length of the linedef that's part of the control sector as well as the speed at which the ceiling raises/lowers) and change the sector height of your control just once, like "ceiling lower to floor" or whatever.

 

-Scroll the corpses in the direction of the teleport line, watch the viles show up, and that's it

You beat me to this!

[Nine Inch Heels]

Quick add: You may want to make sure the chainers can't be scrolled away while they're still alive, which you can do by making sure they're "too tall" to be scrolled across the teleport line. Action 242 on the trim of these platforms to make sure things look as they do on your screenshot while the ceiling actually, just barely blocks the chaingunners at their forehead should suffice for this purpose - note that corpses are smaller than the living "thing", so a "fake height ceiling" wouldn't get in the way of the scroll once it happens...

Edited March 21, 2022 by Nine Inch Heels

[CblBOPOTKA]

Yes, you can do it in Boom. Check out this map

 

 

 

Revs are getting killed by crushing barrels and then they empty bodies are teleported to another place (to ressurect by AVs later)

Edited March 22, 2022 by CblBOPOTKA

[Stabbey]

1 hour ago, CblBOPOTKA said:

Yes, you can do it in Boom. Check out this map

 

 

 

Revs are getting killed by crushing barrels and then they empty bodies are teleported to another place (to ressurect by AVs later)

 

I use that trick a few places, but I don't think that's what he wants. I think he wants that to happen if the chaingunners are killed by any weapon, and possibly early instead of a later time.

 

That method will work though, if his design will allow for an exploding barrel to be teleported near a chaingunner, the blast will then fling the chaingunner off and kill them, clearing the platform, but that won't take into account deaths which happen before the barrel teleports in.

[ImproversGaming]

I don't know anything about mapping or the doom engine mechanics so this comment is probably not useful.

Also, I am not sure I have fully understood what you are trying to achieve - something like: 1) kill the chaingunners and remove their bodies, 2) flip switches and bring in arch-viles to the same platform but with no chain gunners to be resurrected. Not sure what would happen if you flip the switch before killing the chaingunners in my suggestion.

 

I am responding as I am wondering if there are simpler ways to achieve something similar without more complex scripting. Would it be possible to have a row of teleporters at the back of the platform where the height of them means that chaingunners (or later arch-viles) cannot walk into them (they are too low) but if they die then their corpses can slide in and teleport away (as they are zero height and will have some momentum)?
I guess some corpses will be thrown forward as they die but these would fall off the platform, right?

 

As I say, probably a bad idea that does not meet your needs, but this interested me.

[CittyKat112]

17 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Okay... (should be) Easy enough...

 

What you need is "action 247 - scroll things when sector changes height" (or so it's called) definitely action 247 though...

 

What it does is scroll things on the floor of the target sector when for example the ceiling in a control sector lowers or raises. Since the chainers won't have any inclination to jump off their platforms, that's where you're gonna scroll their corpses (towards the edge of their respective platforms). Then, after a short delay you should be able to wire into a voodoo conveyor, you warp the viles in... It's really that simple...

 

What's not so simple is figuring out how to set up the control sectors and the orientation of the respective linedefs, but I think that's something you should be able to figure out on your own...

 

-You want 1 control sector that "changes height" for each of the platforms there

 

-One of the lines of these control sectors you'll assign action 247 (make sure you get the orientation of the linedef right, will require some testing)

 

-Place a teleport line such that the chainers won't cross it "naturally" (they will cross it and teleport if their centre-point "hits" or "passes" the teleport line)

 

-After the switches have been activated, before the viles warp in, have a short delay in place, perhaps even no more than a second (depends on the length of the linedef that's part of the control sector as well as the speed at which the ceiling raises/lowers) and change the sector height of your control just once, like "ceiling lower to floor" or whatever.

 

-Scroll the corpses in the direction of the teleport line, watch the viles show up, and that's it

Sounds like a lot of work for this small encounter lol. I'll try to do this, but I think I'll have to use dehacked to replace Wolfenstein SS with unrevivable chaingunners instead. I'll get back to this topic once I've tested everything :D

Thanks for your help!

[CittyKat112]

14 hours ago, CblBOPOTKA said:

Yes, you can do it in Boom. Check out this map

 

 

 

Revs are getting killed by crushing barrels and then they empty bodies are teleported to another place (to ressurect by AVs later)

I'm gonna DM you after I beat it :D 

[CittyKat112]

6 hours ago, ImproversGaming said:

I don't know anything about mapping or the doom engine mechanics so this comment is probably not useful.

Also, I am not sure I have fully understood what you are trying to achieve - something like: 1) kill the chaingunners and remove their bodies, 2) flip switches and bring in arch-viles to the same platform but with no chain gunners to be resurrected. Not sure what would happen if you flip the switch before killing the chaingunners in my suggestion.

 

I am responding as I am wondering if there are simpler ways to achieve something similar without more complex scripting. Would it be possible to have a row of teleporters at the back of the platform where the height of them means that chaingunners (or later arch-viles) cannot walk into them (they are too low) but if they die then their corpses can slide in and teleport away (as they are zero height and will have some momentum)?
I guess some corpses will be thrown forward as they die but these would fall off the platform, right?

 

As I say, probably a bad idea that does not meet your needs, but this interested me.

Flipping it before killing chaingunners won't do anything as they occupy the sector that serves as a teleport destination for arch-viles. I don't want their corpses to be there because arch-viles will be resurrecting them all the time and I want them to focus on the player...

[DarkIceCyclone]

If the coirpse gets knocked into a teleport line with sufficient force while it is dieing, it can be teleported. I believe that can be used. As also mentioned above by ImproversGaming

[CittyKat112]

14 hours ago, DarkIceCyclone said:

If the coirpse gets knocked into a teleport line with sufficient force while it is dieing, it can be teleported. I believe that can be used. As also mentioned above by ImproversGaming

I am aware of that lol. This was never an option, I'd have to make every edge in those towers work as teleporters and that'd mean arch-viles could teleport away during the fight. I tried to follow NIH's instructions (also, I'm sorry I didn't post an update), but failed... It would take too much time and effort to make it work for me, so I just replaced Wolfenstein SS with unrevivable chaingunners.

[DarkIceCyclone]

6 hours ago, CittyKat112 said:

I am aware of that lol. This was never an option, I'd have to make every edge in those towers work as teleporters and that'd mean arch-viles could teleport away during the fight. I tried to follow NIH's instructions (also, I'm sorry I didn't post an update), but failed... It would take too much time and effort to make it work for me, so I just replaced Wolfenstein SS with unrevivable chaingunners.

I might have missed something, but you can make a scrolling floor that would scroll the corps backwards towards the teleport line at the second sector in the back. Making the sector low enough will make sure arch viles can't step on it, for one, and two, they are fast enouh to overcome the speed of scrolling floors in the first place. If thats not an option, just ignore me

 

[Nine Inch Heels]

21 minutes ago, DarkIceCyclone said:

I might have missed something, but you can make a scrolling floor that would scroll the corps backwards towards the teleport line at the second sector in the back. Making the sector low enough will make sure arch viles can't step on it, for one, and two, they are fast enouh to overcome the speed of scrolling floors in the first place. If thats not an option, just ignore me

While very workable in practice, it comes with the added issue of giving away that the chainers may not be all the player would need to deal with, which is why I didn't suggest that approach, despite it being fine from a mechanical POV...

[DarkIceCyclone]

53 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

While very workable in practice, it comes with the added issue of giving away that the chainers may not be all the player would need to deal with, which is why I didn't suggest that approach, despite it being fine from a mechanical POV...

i forgot boom doesn't have mapspots, but maybe similar effect can be achieved if chaingunner death triggers wall lowering for arch vile closets, teleporing arch viles in and scrolling the corpse out

Edited March 26, 2022 by DarkIceCyclone

[Nine Inch Heels]

8 hours ago, DarkIceCyclone said:

i forgot boom doesn't have mapspots, but maybe similar effect can be achieved if chaingunner death triggers wall lowering for arch vile closets, teleporing arch viles in and scrolling the corpse out

The order of operations needs to be that a switch is being pressed, the corpses are being removed, and the viles come in after a delay. There's no conceptual legroom to link that sequence of events to the death of a chaingunner as far as I understand what the OP wants, I'm afraid...

[Aurelius]

A quick n' dirty proof-of-concept, should somebody find it useful. Details can be adjusted to fit the context.

slidingchaingunners.zip