BFG vs Archvile: One has to go.

[Shikamaze]

You need to choose, one has to go, which is more important for Doom community, the Archvile or the BFG?

Assume that whatever is gone, is gone from "history" as well. If BFG goes, it doesn't appear in Doom 1, if Archie goes the same applies. 

 

I choose these 2 guys because, in my opinion, they are the 2 things that make Doom so versatile in mapping.

I would say that Archvile goes. Some of my favorite maps are reliant on the BFG for fights, and i think that gun makes way more combat scenarios possible, but i also think the Archvile is the best enemy of all time, so any choice is "valid". 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Shikamaze

[maxmanium]

Tbh, I'd choose the BFG. Don't get me wrong, it's iconic and I love it, but the Archvile brings so much to the table.

[Nefelibeta]

Same, without BFG you can still create some very interesting combat scenarios, without arch-viles the gameplay just won't as attractive anymore.

 

Hey, what about BFG vs Cyberdemons, that's a tough one to choose.

[Maribo]

No AVJ = No deal. Sorry, but goodbye BFG.

[Gosu_Noob]

3 minutes ago, Maribo said:

No AVJ = No deal. Sorry, but goodbye BFG.

x2

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

I'd prefer if the chaingunners left...

[Biodegradable]

As much as I hate that skinny pyromaniac, his inclusion in the beastiary and the subsequent tricks the community has discovered using the Archvile has made him pretty damn integral to the Doom experience. The BFG wouldn't have nearly the same impact should it be removed. Mind you, I will miss being able to two-shot Cyberdemons.

[spineapple tea]

BFG, archviles are the funniest fellas in the game.

[Ludi]

BFGs are kinda superfluous in the grander scheme- while way more iconic than the pissed-off martian we love to hate, it's essentially just a shotgun on crack and not much more. Archies are way more interesting and have more versatility than what is essentially a screen nuke with extra steps (not even including that they feature in way more maps overall).

 

9 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

Mind you, I will miss being able to two-shot Cyberdemons.

 

I personally like to keep cybers alive as long as possible. They can seriously be a life-saver, despite having the most dangerous attack since they are excellent at infighting.

[Mayomancer]

BFG, because even in slaughter maps i think it's nice when encounters are balanced with the plasma and rocket launcher in mind. The game would also be harder overall and I personally end up not using the plasma gun as much to save ammo for the BFG in a lot of cases when both are available.

Using the BFG well is a whole science itself though, and it's super satisfying, so losing it would not be a net positive thing overall i think.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Mayomancer

[Pseudonaut]

In other words, the best enemy in the game vs the best weapon in the game. This is a difficult decision, but I suppose the BFG is more important to me.

[cannonball]

Someone is clearly looking to have an army of John Wick’s descending on them…..

Seriously the archvile is integral to mapping, especially modern mapping. The BFG is a weapon that you can do without in most maps (Though it is a lot of fun to use).

[Egg Boy]

I find that the only way to make BFG combat interesting is to increase the monster count, and have the player shift focus between different hordes of monsters as well as their cell reserves. In other words, BFG focused combat is often about management because of its power against smaller groups of monsters or low tier monsters, making meat shields the weapon of choice for a mapper looking to make a fun BFG centric fight. Whereas the Archvile's applications are near infinite, his ability to make most any encounter better is paramount to modern mapping. 

 

tl;dr the BFG is more niche than the archvile is

[Dark Pulse]

Considering Doom is synonymous with the BFG, and the Archie wasn't even until Doom II, this question is borderline insulting.

 

I take my glove off and slap you in the face with it, sir.

[Thelokk]

I very rarely use the BFG in my maps, and wouldn't be sad at all to see it go. In anything but slaughter maps it's an iwin button. Also, as rudimentary as all of them are, its firing animation is probably the clunkiest of them all, and don't get me started on the firing delay and the mouse click failsafe - I know it's there for my convenience, but grabbing a BFG in the mid of a fight and waiting for it to decide to shoot reminds me of loading a webpage in the 90s. Dreadful.

[PeterMoro]

BFG. Never been a fan. Archvilles ressurecting monsters is a cool game mechanic however.

[CoolerDoomeR]

Certainly i choose BFG.

[Rykzeon]

Remove BFG9000 and add BFG2704

[Zulk RS]

BFG. Here's the thing. As iconic and honestly unique the BFG is, it's essentially just another FPS Super Weapon. There will always be a "BFG" just not the one we know. The Archvile however, is something unique to Doom. I don't play many FPS games other than Doom but I have not heard of any enemy in any game being as unique as the Archvile. So if one has to go, it has to be the BFG. I wonder if the BFG wasn't there, what would be Doom's new Super Weapon. Maybe we'd get the Unmaker in Doom 1.

[TheFocus]

i don't even really use the BFG anymore. also, i've always been more of a Doom player than a mapper, so i never had to get creative with monster encounters.

[7Mahonin]

The archie is my pick.

 

The BFG is too important for us that do more than play SP, the Archie isn’t even in the first game but the BFG is so it has that going for it as well. The BFG is the weapon in multiplayer that easily shows you who is a novice that doesn’t understand how the BFG works and who is skilled enough to know the magic of the BFG in DM. Anyone who complains about the BFG in deathmatch just simply never learned the secret to using it. 
 

The archvile is a fun monster, but there is more to doom to me than just single player, and the BFG is just too much fun to let go of. 
 

Edited March 25, 2022 by 7Mahonin

[ImproversGaming]

This is tough but I would probably edge towards the BFG being the one to go.

 

Damn, that does not feel like a nice choice to make to me. A massive part of the Doom appeal is the monster variety and the variation in their attacks and nuanced features. The Arch Vile has loads of nuances that make it a really interesting enemy as well as the unique attack and resurrection. It can really add a lot of spice to a battle. On the other hand I really enjoy the judicious use of a BFG when you need to hoard your plasma to get a shot or two during a critical encounter. I have not yet reached a difficulty of WAD that relies on my spamming the BFG so don't know much about this.  

[Gez]

Well, based on my long experience of partnering up with Doomguy, usually what tends to happen is that the BFG is the one that gets rid of the arch-vile.

 

 

Now there's been a lot of good points about the gameplay benefits of either in the framework of Doom II combat. But this rhetorical question isn't about Doom II. It's about Doom in general. And the BFG is way more iconic than the arch-vile, as far as Doom's key elements go.

 

Consider that all Doom games have had the BFG, unless you consider Doom shareware to be separate game instead of just one part of Doom 1.

 

The arch-vile has not appeared in Doom 1, Doom 64, or Doom 2016. The arch-vile is also missing from many of the console ports since generally Doom II was not ported on the weaker hardware that were barely able to run the first game (Jaguar, 3DO, SNES, etc.) while the BFG is present (even if sometimes only through cheats when, e.g. in the 32X, the levels that feature it were cut).

 

The BFG is in both the Doom movies. The archie is in neither. The BFG is the denouement of the Doom comic. The arch-vile doesn't appear. You may say those are all garbage, but that's not the point. The point is the iconicity of the BFG:

9 hours ago, Shikamaze said:

Assume that whatever is gone, is gone from "history" as well.

So with this in mind, go take a look at the BFG's impact on pop culture. What does the flameboi has to compare with, one joke in Concerned: the Half-Life and Death of Gordon Frohman? That's a bit meager.

 

So yeah. Sorry but if there is a choice to make, then the healer shall stalk no more. That's my message to the arch-vile.

[Shepardus]

Tough choice, but I'd have to give the boot to the arch-vile. The arch-vile's one of a kind, but there are enough other enemies to keep the game interesting in its absence. If you get rid of the BFG, you'd be eliminating one of... two? mechanically interesting weapons in the game, and I think that's ultimately a greater loss.

[Solmyr]

I pick the BFG, as iconic as it is, the archie changes gameplay by bringing a powerful undodgeable hitscan attack that partially obscures the player vision with its distinctive telltale flame and makes a priority for the player to run away and hide behind level geometry to avoid it. Its resurrection ability makes killing the archie a priority first when there are other monsters present.

 

Without the Arch-Vile Doom II wouldn't be the same, the BFG is fun and all but outside slaughteremaps it makes encounters including bosses irrelevant, the game would be less interesting without such iconic weapon but, it would be more challenging as well, the spiderdemon would be a little less of a joke, crowd control with the other high level weapons, and relying in monster infighting is more than enough to keep hordes at bay while keeping tension, like any slaugthermap where the BFG appears at the last stretch or isn't even present at all.

 

Take away the Big Friendly Gun, but how about giving its projectile and tracers to The Spider Mastermind so it isn't as much as a joke and actually a real threat.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Solmyr

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Bye-bye archie!

It was not nice knowing ya! :D

[Jacek Bourne]

I without much doubt choose to keep the Vile and remove the BFG as I refuse to eliminate the signature fight of Sunlust map29. The Archvile Carousel.

[Pechudin]

BFG goes. Archvile is so much more versatile. This would, however, severely limit the slaughtermaps and dense, close encounter design. But Viles are just too good to let go.

 

Honestly I would rather let the Cyber go than the Vile.

[MemeMind]

My Title says it all.

[magicsofa]

5 hours ago, Gez said:

The BFG is in both the Doom movies. The archie is in neither. The BFG is the denouement of the Doom comic. The arch-vile doesn't appear. You may say those are all garbage, but that's not the point.

 

But those are all garbage! (the movies at least)

The point isn't to preserve the better icon - it's to preserve what is most important to the doom community. If either movie had a passable Archvile scene, it would have been an improvement.

BFG goes.