Doom Beneath [E4][cl 3] updated! May 12

[Esperpento]

Hi fellow doomers, I've been working on a full episode 4 replacement inspired by Hell Beneath (E4M1). The gimmick is that there are only 9 health bonuses per map. The wad is meant to be hard and is designed to allow a continouos playthrough and to account for guns and ammo of previous maps. So pistol start at you own risk...

 

Format: Doom

Sourceports: limit-removing (damn visplanes!)

 

I'm a reasonable entity man, difficulties are implemented as shown below:

 

UV: Only 9 health bonuses.

HMP: Exactly like UV +4 medikits (recommended difficulty for a blind playthrough as you have more error margin)

HNTR & ITYTD: Some difficult encounters toned down, no ammo starvation, similar monster count as UV, only 4 medikits.

 

Tested in: PrBoom+, Crispy, Android Freedoom

 

Known Bugs: E4M6 can't be finished if cybie's corpse gets crushed by a door (happened to me a few times). Protect the corpse at all costs!!!

 

Screenshots:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Download: beneath_beta3.zip Updated May 12 2022

 

beneath_beta2.zip (updated Apr 10 2022)

 

beneath_beta.zip (old)

 

Have fun!

Edited May 12, 2022 by Esperpento
beta3 released

[Shepardus]

Interesting concept... Not my idea of a fun time, but I wouldn't suggest discarding the gimmick. It's a perfectly fine gimmick, and the maps seem solid, I just don't enjoy E4M1 like you seem to. My sole criticism of the maps I've played (E4M1-E4M4 and E4M9) is that the way to the secret exit in E4M2 is pretty lame, I don't want to be kept waiting after I've finished the rest of the map.

Spoiler

Nice E1M1, by the way.

 

[kalensar]

Gave it a fair shake until Map03, I think.

 

1. Excellent music choices!

2. Map01. Good stuff! Not as hard as Hell Beneath but it was fun. Found all secrets no problem.

3. Map02-- Pretty decent layout. Only had 1 hard section. Had to Noclip to find the secret.

4. Map03 -- Good Start and hilarious imo. I punched out the Cyber just like he deserves. Died due to the flood of imps from in front and behind in the exit room. Didnt save and I didnt feel like punching out the Cyber again so thats where I stopped.

5. Didnt really notice the gimmick honestly. It had pretty normal Doom progression so I'm not complaining.

 

I'll give the other maps a cursory shake later just because I'm digging the map layouts and scenery.

Edited March 27, 2022 by kalensar
editing mistakes

[Esperpento]

@Shepardus The way to get the secret exit was a last minute change to make it more "unique", maybe I'll go back to a hidden switch, thanks for the feedback!

 

Spoiler

Congratulations! You found the ultra secret level haha

 

@kalensar Thanks!! I've made the midis myself, so it means a lot to me. Did you feel it was an unfair/cheap trap? The intended way to kill the cyberdemon on E4M3 is to telefrag him, literally dethroning him :P

 

I've never thought about punching him, haha.

 

Thanks for playing!

[kalensar]

5 minutes ago, Esperpento said:

 

@kalensar Thanks!! I've made the midis myself, so it means a lot to me. Did you feel it was an unfair/cheap trap? The intended way to kill the cyberdemon on E4M3 is to telefrag him, literally dethroning him :P

 

I've never thought about punching him, haha.

 

Thanks for playing!

Yeah! Those music tunes were freaking sweet! That'll be the one reason I finish out this mapset besides just the good mapping.

 

AS for Cyber, Given the start with the Berserk and Invulnerable  and the room constrution, my reaction was not to waste the Invurlnerable on trash and noticed that the Cyber was in Punching distance. So even if I hadn't found the 2nd Invurln I would have still punched him as much as possible even with all the Rocket ping pong that involved. Dodging the rockets while keeping him alive in that small room seemed like the worst move to make so no way was I going to telefrag him. 

The trap at the end of it was not horrible at all! I literally just died an honest death because I dodged wrong.

[Large Cat]

I've played through E4M1-4 and E4M9 (as well as E1M1, because why not?). I'm working on E4M4, but it's proving exhausting given its length. Hopefully I'll be able to chain together enough successes to push my way through. Here are my FDA's: beneath_FDAs.zip. The were recorded on UV in Crispy Doom. I pistol-started each map, because the alternative just requires stringing too much luck together.

 

The gameplay is a nice new spin on doom combat, though as you seem to be anticipating, this won't be everyone's cup of tea. I especially enjoy the way the relative power of monsters and weapons is shifted. Shotgunners are kings, and the rocket launcher isn't a go-to weapon in any scenario without planning, demoting below the shotgun and chaingun in utility. The combat seems thoughtfully constructed in general, though I'll explain gripes I may have with combat pieces. My prime issue with the combat: the pace is so sluggish, or at least that's how I end up playing, because being adventurous seems like it will come with unavoidable damage. You'll see this in my demos. It's not so bad that I would scrap the gimmick, like you suggested.

 

The visuals are very nicely done, though the lack of orange sky does deprive the palette of a prime feature of Thy Flesh Consumed for me. The music sounds nice so far, so props to you for creating a nice soundtrack! Something about it is bugging me, though. The instrumentation is all the same, focusing on distortion guitar, but that alone isn't a problem. What's strange is, among the five tracks I've heard, four of them have been in B, which is really causing them to blend together in my memory. I don't know how many other people will feel this way, just a note on my experience.

 

A few thoughts about each map:

Spoiler

E1M1

This is a neat little homage, and the cyber arena actually makes the blue sphere useful, which is a feat. I'd just be wary of releasing this with the rest of the wad, since cribbing too much on the structure of an IWAD map could result in copyright trouble.

 

E4M1

This was a nice little package and a reasonable intro. My complaint is probably the surprise cacos right before the lava maze. I first tried to turn it into a tense chase with them behind me, but it turns out to be much easier to just run back behind them instead, which is much less energetic.

 

E4M2

I think the cacos on the starting stairs are a great touch to discourage hiding. I spent a lot of time stirring up infighting with the initial baron, but it's possible I could be more aggressive with the ammo I'm provided. The secret exit is an unfortunate bit for a blind playthrough and unlikely to be gettable without cheats or being told where to look, but once the nature of the exit is known, it seems gettable in five minutes. The encounter behind the blue key door seems cheeseable by waiting for the door to reopen, which doesn't seem intended.

 

E4M9

The structure here is cute. Since it's the secret map, I'll forgive the extra health provisions; the map still seems beatable without them anyway.

 

E4M3

I initially tried punching out the cyberdemon, but the blockmap really wasn't on my side, as a gridline goes right through the middle of the throne. It's possible I could have been braver with berserk, but I opted to get some safe punches in on the barons, since my boxing skills are still developing. There's a lot of retreating in the latter half of this map, which may contribute to the sluggish pace. It's up to you whether you want to limit player escape.

 

E4M4

I included a demo with a bunch of attempts in it, but this map is quite a step up in length over the previous few, which makes it exhausting to handle. The baron canal is a nice piece, I think. Unfortunately, I spend almost all of my time dancing around one room, which makes the core loop of this map monotonous for me. I only made it to the lava room with red rock platforms once, but hopefully I'll be able to best it with only one or two attempts.

 

 

[Esperpento]

@Large Cat Thank you for the demos! It's really useful to see another person playing the maps for the first time, I've been playing this levels so much I lost objectivity. I tried to make continuous playthrough easier than pistol start (I see uv-pistol start as the ultimate challenge, I don't think nightmare is possible), but you need to get the soulsphere secret on E4M1 to survive E4M2. Maybe I can put the soulsphere on the exit room, or make the secret not so subtle, what do you think?

 

I know it's not for everyone, but I had fun making it and playing it, maybe there is someone else who enjoys it aswell. I believe the slow and careful playstyle is inherent to the lack of health, but I feel like maybe you rely too much on infighting when there is ammo and that makes it a drag.

 

While Hell Beneath is my source of inspiration on this wad, I tried to give it a twist, its own "visual style" (I think the green sky looks sick with the red brick walls :P). Regarding the music, I play a 7-string guitar and love metal, I guess it shows, hahaha.

 

E1M1: I never considered that, thanks for the advice! It was a little "hidden" bonus, texturing E1M1 like the other levels and adding a fight or two. Maybe I can release it separately or remove it.

 

E4M1: I thought about making the door blue keyed on the other side, locking the player with the cacos, but I didn't want to be too mean on the first level. I'll implement it in the next update and see how it goes.

 

E4M2: The secret exit was to "encourage" speedrunning the level and to add replay value on a continuous playthrough, as you can get the bfg on E4M9 and it's a total game changer on the next levels. Maybe it's too ambitious, everyone mentioned it, so I'll go back to the original secret exit implementation on next update. Also will make the blue key door uncheesable. (If someone can wait 30 seconds without shooting anything maybe they deserve to cheese it)

 

E4M3: It seems that everyone tries to punch the cyberdemon. The intended method is to lower the teleport and telefrag him, as you did the second time. I don't know if I should raise the throne to discourage punching him and convey the player that there is another solution, or leave it as it is. Don't know what would be less frustrating.

 

E4M4: Punching the first 2 barons it's kinda needed on UV pistol start. You can use the cacos to distract one and go 1on1 with the other. Or you can shoot them down with the shotgun if you have the patience.

 

Thanks again for the demos and your insight about each map!!!

 

[Esperpento]

Wad updated, I fixed what was discussed in the posts, feel free to tell me if you find anything else.

 

Spoiler

 

Fixes:

 

-E1M1 removed

-Caco trap on E4M1 is now unescapable

-Secret exit on E4M2 is now marked as a secret and no longer depends on time.

-Encounter behind blue key door on E4M2 is now uncheesable.

 

 

[KneeDeepintheSludgemetal]

I freaking love that logo. 

[Esperpento]

On 4/7/2022 at 12:46 AM, johnnyledger1 said:

I freaking love that logo. 

 

Thanks! It's just the good ol' Doom logo, but red :P

 

Spoiler

 

If anyone played E4M8 I would like to hear what you think about the boss battle.

[JamesBone]

E4M1, the first door can't be opened from center room once its closed again. So if you backpedal back into the starting room after it closes, then you're stuck. The only way to open it again is the Red Key switch, but then you're locked out of that room. I would replace that LineDef 171 action from 118 (D1) to 115 (SR)

[Esperpento]

2 hours ago, JamesBone said:

E4M1, the first door can't be opened from center room once its closed again. So if you backpedal back into the starting room after it closes, then you're stuck. The only way to open it again is the Red Key switch, but then you're locked out of that room. I would replace that LineDef 171 action from 118 (D1) to 115 (SR)

 

Thank you! I didn't noticed that, seems I'm not fast enough to get softlocked. Already fixed and updated link for beta2 on OP

[Large Cat]

I've now finished everything except E4M8, which I've attempted several times, but haven't reached the boss battle yet. I'll come back to finish it later, but for now, these maps have taken their toll on me, and I must rest. The FDA's, along with my success E4M4 run, are here: beneath448.zip. Recorded on UV with Crispy Doom, pistol starting each map.

 

As I said, this gameplay gimmick works for me, but it can be fatiguing to have such a small error margin even in casual play. As you'll see in the demos, I had some moments of real slow going, which is really hard to avoid when health is so precious. One new sentiment I have: turret monsters really drug down the experience for me. Ammo is usually tight, and Doom I monsters can't really serve area denial for more than a small hallway, so turrets seem to mostly just hit me with cheap shots.

 

Some thoughts about each map:

Spoiler

E4M4

The final baron trap is real nasty if you aren't expecting it, but it's beatable. This game style really accentuates the need for maneuvering to avoid splash damage with rockets, and this final baron quartet capitalizes on that.

 

E4M5

The fact that I got this one on the first try even after playing it so wrong is a testament to its accessibility. Still, it was a shame to have to pistol a mastermind to death. The spiderdemon was a good shock, as her place in the hierarchy is shifted up much like the shotgunners. However, fighting her seems bound to devolve into peek-a-boo. The cracked windows seem to let flying monsters through inconsistently, which makes their behavior a little erratic, which is unfortunate, given how nice the cracks look.

 

E4M6

I'd say this is my favorite map from the episode. I think the concept is great, and the arena is set up well to allow the cyberdemon some mobility. Unfortunately, since I missed the secret switch to raise the lava, I never got the invuln, which made killing the cyberdemon feel like a combat puzzle I never really solved. I think the issue for me was that I tried once to open the door to the secret hallway by jumping into the lava pit, but I couldn't hear the door open when I activated it, so I figured I was supposed to get in from somewhere else. The map works just right for me once I can add the secret invuln to my route.

 

E4M7

Another one that took its toll on me, owing to length. It might be doable to max it with the right strategy and full secret access, but I wasn't up to it in the moment, so I just exited. The BFG is really hidden in this one; I have trouble imagining myself finding the shot switch for it. The cyberdemon right behind the plasma gun seems prone to missing his teleport cue, since the monsters I unleash to get the blue key manage to consistently block the teleport destination. The beginning of this map drags for me, because I spent most of my play time at the start suiting up and clearing the first few rooms so that I can safely take the plunge to unleash the first ambush after getting the blue key. I wish I could have spent more time in the insanity that is the latter portion of the map, being chased by hordes of cacos and barons. Maybe it was the large number of attempts, but the music in this map did start to grate on me after some time, which hadn't been an issue in any previous maps.

 

E4M8

This one has another slow start, which contributes to my fatigue. The caco clouds are a nice setpiece, and the bridge flanked by cacos is also an interesting bit. I'm not sold on the first cyberdemon, who seems like a cheap heartrate booster, especially on my way out of the bridge room. Hopefully I can experience the rest of this map soon, as it has some nice combat once you make it past the initial bits.

 

[Esperpento]

On 4/10/2022 at 4:04 AM, Large Cat said:

I've now finished everything except E4M8, which I've attempted several times, but haven't reached the boss battle yet. I'll come back to finish it later, but for now, these maps have taken their toll on me, and I must rest. The FDA's, along with my success E4M4 run, are here: beneath448.zip. Recorded on UV with Crispy Doom, pistol starting each map.

 

As I said, this gameplay gimmick works for me, but it can be fatiguing to have such a small error margin even in casual play. As you'll see in the demos, I had some moments of real slow going, which is really hard to avoid when health is so precious. One new sentiment I have: turret monsters really drug down the experience for me. Ammo is usually tight, and Doom I monsters can't really serve area denial for more than a small hallway, so turrets seem to mostly just hit me with cheap shots.

 

Some thoughts about each map:

  Hide contents

E4M4

The final baron trap is real nasty if you aren't expecting it, but it's beatable. This game style really accentuates the need for maneuvering to avoid splash damage with rockets, and this final baron quartet capitalizes on that.

 

E4M5

The fact that I got this one on the first try even after playing it so wrong is a testament to its accessibility. Still, it was a shame to have to pistol a mastermind to death. The spiderdemon was a good shock, as her place in the hierarchy is shifted up much like the shotgunners. However, fighting her seems bound to devolve into peek-a-boo. The cracked windows seem to let flying monsters through inconsistently, which makes their behavior a little erratic, which is unfortunate, given how nice the cracks look.

 

E4M6

I'd say this is my favorite map from the episode. I think the concept is great, and the arena is set up well to allow the cyberdemon some mobility. Unfortunately, since I missed the secret switch to raise the lava, I never got the invuln, which made killing the cyberdemon feel like a combat puzzle I never really solved. I think the issue for me was that I tried once to open the door to the secret hallway by jumping into the lava pit, but I couldn't hear the door open when I activated it, so I figured I was supposed to get in from somewhere else. The map works just right for me once I can add the secret invuln to my route.

 

E4M7

Another one that took its toll on me, owing to length. It might be doable to max it with the right strategy and full secret access, but I wasn't up to it in the moment, so I just exited. The BFG is really hidden in this one; I have trouble imagining myself finding the shot switch for it. The cyberdemon right behind the plasma gun seems prone to missing his teleport cue, since the monsters I unleash to get the blue key manage to consistently block the teleport destination. The beginning of this map drags for me, because I spent most of my play time at the start suiting up and clearing the first few rooms so that I can safely take the plunge to unleash the first ambush after getting the blue key. I wish I could have spent more time in the insanity that is the latter portion of the map, being chased by hordes of cacos and barons. Maybe it was the large number of attempts, but the music in this map did start to grate on me after some time, which hadn't been an issue in any previous maps.

 

E4M8

This one has another slow start, which contributes to my fatigue. The caco clouds are a nice setpiece, and the bridge flanked by cacos is also an interesting bit. I'm not sold on the first cyberdemon, who seems like a cheap heartrate booster, especially on my way out of the bridge room. Hopefully I can experience the rest of this map soon, as it has some nice combat once you make it past the initial bits.

 

 

Sorry for the late answer, I've been busy with life and work, and didn't want to answer before adressing the issues. I'm truly thankful for the time you spent testing and writing your insight!  I hear what you say about the music on E4M7, the track is really short (the shortest on the wad) and the map is one of the longest. I plan to extend the duration of the track for the final release (I would like to upload to /idgames once the wad it's finished).

 

It's true, blind playthrough on UV pistol start no saves it's really fatiguing. I understand it's needed for the demos, but for casual players (or people seeking a fair challenge) I recommend a continuous playthrough with saves on HMP, the monsters and traps are the same but now you get 4 medikits (a lot, i know :P).

 

I've updated the link in the OP, and preserved the previous versions for demo compatibility.

 

Fixes:
 

Spoiler

 

-Cracks on E4M5 fixed, monsters can go through them more consistently.

-E4M5 starting area optimized for the spidermastermind, to avoid her (her?) getting stuck.

-Removed the mid texture to improve visibility of the shot switch required for the secret BFG.

-Moved cybie's teleport destination on E4M7 to avoid monsters blocking it.

-Texture alignments.

-New titlepic (testing it)

 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Esperpento

[galileo31dos01]

Sick episode. Quite tricky as well, I played on HMP and had no virtual issues with anything, I wouldn't know how to feel without those medikits and recharges if they were absent. Here's a few observations:

 

Spoiler

- In E4M3, after doing the final room, I found some belated imps coming from the first area which probably is unintended? If so, the teleport closets might need some tweaks to speed up their arrival, although I suppose you could always go back to see if they all spawned already.

- In E4M4, there was a lot of ammo in the platforming room that I never needed or used, shells and bullets primarily. Not an issue per se if you're fine with that.

- In E4M7, the plasma gun grab released a cyberdemon that teleported to the lava section, and by that time I already explored there and raised the platforms, so it had no point being there (I know the plasma secret can be obtained much earlier). I still killed it before heading to the exit, so not really a problem but I'm not sure what it's meant to do in the lava.

- In E4M8, the backpack secret is one-time, not sure if intentional or not -- it's fine if it is! 

- In the final area, the spiderdemon was still capable of shooting even when the platform was up, the gap is tall enough that it doesn't break its line of sight... if that's intended then ignore this too!

 

 Thanks for sharing!

[Esperpento]

Thanks for playing! Only the medikits are missing on UV, the rest of the items (berserk, supercharge, invul, etc) are the same as in HMP.

 

Spoiler

-It wasn't originally intended, but when testing the level those late imps caught me off guard and I liked that, so I left it as it was.

-You're right, it's not needed, but it slows down the lost souls a little and makes E4M5 a little easier in a continuous playthrough. Also I like how it looks (?)

-Nothing is free, you want a plasma rifle, I give you a cybie lurking beneath :P

-Really? One time only? No, it's not intended. I just checked the editor and I used special 120 (WR Lift Fast), what sourceport were you playing on?

-Yeah, it's intended :D

 

[galileo31dos01]

4 hours ago, Esperpento said:

Really? One time only? No, it's not intended. I just checked the editor and I used special 120 (WR Lift Fast), what sourceport were you playing on?

 

My bad, I confused the gargoyle switch with coincidentally seeing the lift going back up and never checked in the editor until now, dammit I usually do but not that time, sorry!

[Esperpento]

Don't worry, thanks for the feedback and observations!

[Firedust]

Episode 4 is my favourite so definitely gonna make this a priority.

 

EDIT: This was a fun little episode. Don't have much else to say other than I don't think there's any map as tough as Hell Beneath in here. Shotgunners aren't all that common and most of the fights can be easily beaten without taking damage (especially thanks to those invulns in levels with cyberdemons).

Edited June 4, 2022 by Firedust