How would i make the jump not suck?

[Jasmine135]

working on a kind of "retro throwback" TC and need to change the way the player behaves when jumping. as you may know, GZDoom jumping is atrocious. 

i know it will require ACS work but i cant find a good place to start, got any suggestions or functions to start looking into?

[Dragonfly]

Atrocious is a strong word, sure, but the main stuff that comes to mind is generally how high the player jumps for and the hangtime of the player in the air (Gravity), and the amount of movement you can give the player once in the air (Air Control).  These are both controllable via MAPINFO, ACS, and other methods too, I'm sure.

MAPINFO:
https://zdoom.org/wiki/MAPINFO/Map_definition -> See Air Control and Gravity

ACS:

https://zdoom.org/wiki/SetAirControl

https://zdoom.org/wiki/Sector_SetGravity (having to set it per-sector is... tedious)

 

I'd also look into other movement based alterations like movement speed, friction, etc, as that all affects how good a jump feels.

[Bridgeburner56]

Adding in a bit of air control makes a *HUGE* difference to how the jumping feels in GZDoom. I'd highly recommend playing with that parameter first to see what impact it has.
Have a play of Adventures of Square. Jimmy and co. made a few changes to jumping which I think really improved the experience.

[NeoWorm]

Adventures of Square's jumping grace is a godsent. It let's you jump even few frames after you run over an edge thus making timing of jumps much more forgiving.

Otherwise one of the main problem of jumping in Zdoom is not jumping but landing. It's too slippery. I am trying to implement more friction for player if he is either crouching or walking. Maybe even ledge fall prevention like in minecraft.

[TimeOfDeath666]

Gotta noob-proof those wads, everybody!

[HavoX]

On 4/3/2022 at 3:01 PM, Jasmine135 said:

GZDoom jumping is atrocious.

The reason for its "atrocity" IMHO is so it adds a bit of realism because in real life, the average person can't jump very high... ...shrugs...

[Graf Zahl]

Not to mention, you have very limited ability to control the direction and velocity of your jump in real life. :P

 

BTW, if you want really atrocious jumping, check out Blood. That system is so broken that it is almost impossible to jump onto another sprite and not fall off right away.

 

[spineapple tea]

1 hour ago, Graf Zahl said:

BTW, if you want really atrocious jumping, check out Blood. That system is so broken that it is almost impossible to jump onto another sprite and not fall off right away.

That's not really an issue with the jump itself is it? It seems like an issue with collision if anything, although I could be wrong being that I don't know much about that kind of stuff. Besides sliding off of sprites, the jump feels perfectly solid and fairly reliable.

[LexiMax]

On 4/6/2022 at 9:48 AM, NeoWorm said:

It let's you jump even few frames after you run over an edge thus making timing of jumps much more forgiving. 

 

This is a fantastic idea that addresses my #1 complaint with jumping.

 

I seem to remember that there might've also been a "cooldown" after landing that prevented you from immediately jumping again, but I'm not sure.

[Gez]

3 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

Not to mention, you have very limited ability to control the direction and velocity of your jump in real life. :P

While airborne? Yes. But before the jump, you are actually much more precise and get a lot more control in real life. Although you generally can't jump as far and as high as a video game protagonist.

[ChopBlock223]

On 4/3/2022 at 10:01 PM, Jasmine135 said:

working on a kind of "retro throwback" TC and need to change the way the player behaves when jumping. as you may know, GZDoom jumping is atrocious. 

i know it will require ACS work but i cant find a good place to start, got any suggestions or functions to start looking into?

Even Decorate allows you to define Jump Speed, Air Control, and Gravity for your Player Pawn (as well as their height, width, and movement speed). Personally, I think GzDoom's jumping is fine.

 

On 4/6/2022 at 4:21 PM, HavoX said:

The reason for its "atrocity" IMHO is so it adds a bit of realism because in real life, the average person can't jump very high... ...shrugs...

Given how fast Doomguy is (before factoring in any kind of straferunning or wallrunning), you can actually make some pretty damn sick leaps in GzDoom, you don't have too much vertical reach, but the horizontal reach is pretty good if you get a running start.

 

9 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

Not to mention, you have very limited ability to control the direction and velocity of your jump in real life. :P

To my understanding, Doom's gravity is actually unrealistically strong. That also means that if you adjust gravity in GzDoom to be more realistic, Doomguy should be able to make even sicker leaps, before altering any characteristic of the Player Pawn

[Gez]

1 hour ago, ChopBlock223 said:

To my understanding, Doom's gravity is actually unrealistically strong.

It is indeed! Acceleration is one vertical map unit per tic per tic (plus it's doubled in the first tic of freefall but let's ignore that), so 35*35 map units per second per second. Earth gravity is an acceleration of 9.81 m per second per second. For Doom gravity to match Earth gravity, you'd need therefore to have 1225 map units represent 9.81 meters, or every map unit represents about 8 mm. Which would put Doomguy at a mighty height of about 44 cm, or one foot and a half in imperial units... So, no. Gravity is about four times too strong, basically.

See also: gravity metrics, map unit.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Gez

[Nicacat]

Didn't know doom players are physicians 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Nicacat

[Gez]

Physicists. As physicians, I think all they'd do is make wounded people walk upon medikits and that's not really all that efficient in the real world.

[NeoWorm]

On 4/8/2022 at 4:56 PM, AlexMax said:

I seem to remember that there might've also been a "cooldown" after landing that prevented you from immediately jumping again, but I'm not sure.

I think it's other way around - it buffers your jump input for a little while so you can jump immediately after touching down.

[Nicacat]

22 hours ago, Gez said:

Physicists. As physicians, I think all they'd do is make wounded people walk upon medikits and that's not really all that efficient in the real world.

Yes and to drink juice they do the same thing

[Shepardus]

Make sure to add some sound effects to the jump and landing. I think the lack of feedback is one of the biggest issues with GZDoom's default jump.