How do you guys make your wads more challenging but fair?

[Stethr1]

Hi, I hope this is the right place to post this (I'm still kinda new).

 

I wanted to know you guys make your wads more challenging/difficult without making it feel unfair or cruel to the player. I'm asking this partially out of curiosity but I'm also just kinda looking for tips since I often find my maps are a bit too easy for my own liking.

[spineapple tea]

Not to crush a new thread so quickly but for some quick answers here's a thread that asks the same question (created by yours truly).

And a related thread about dynamic and fun combat (also linked in the last thread).

And a thread about tough but fair megawads you could study and use as a reference in terms of tough but fair gameplay.

 

[Stethr1]

44 minutes ago, Spineapple tea said:

Not to crush a new thread so quickly but for some quick answers here's a thread that asks the same question (created by yours truly).

And a related thread about dynamic and fun combat (also linked in the last thread).

And a thread about tough but fair megawads you could study and use as a reference in terms of tough but fair gameplay.

 

Ah thanks. I'll read through those!

[ImproversGaming]

Just to say as well that the challenging/fair balance is somewhat subjective so get some good playtesters in early to provide feedback about the balance you are looking for.

[Stabbey]

You can do a lot of work yourself in terms of testing. When balancing, always test without getting any secrets. Try cheesing your own fights, try escaping from rooms, or trying to dodge lock-ins, always look for the cheap ways out. Avoid having cases where fights require one specific path to victory, because players can't read your mind. Take multiple different approaches to fights and see what works the best. You don't need to have every approach be the best, and you don't need every possible approach to be reasonable, but you should allow for multiple different tactics to be survivable. Put in a bit more health and ammo than you need, because you have foreknowledge which players lack.

 

Close off the approaches which make fights too easy, either by adding in lock-ins, or monsters which can block off escape routes, or change the encounter composition to one which prevents the easy approach.

[Stethr1]

On 4/9/2022 at 1:01 AM, Stabbey said:

You can do a lot of work yourself in terms of testing. When balancing, always test without getting any secrets. Try cheesing your own fights, try escaping from rooms, or trying to dodge lock-ins, always look for the cheap ways out. Avoid having cases where fights require one specific path to victory, because players can't read your mind. Take multiple different approaches to fights and see what works the best. You don't need to have every approach be the best, and you don't need every possible approach to be reasonable, but you should allow for multiple different tactics to be survivable. Put in a bit more health and ammo than you need, because you have foreknowledge which players lack.

 

Close off the approaches which make fights too easy, either by adding in lock-ins, or monsters which can block off escape routes, or change the encounter composition to one which prevents the easy approach.

Ah yeah, playing without secrets is something I figured out early on. Cheesing my own levels and blocking off entrances is something I didn't think of but really sounds like something I should try. Thanks!

[Pegleg]

@Cr1ppling

If I had to suggest some quick ways to increase the difficulty of your maps, these would be my suggestions:

• Have enemies come at you from multiple directions at the same time (including behind you), forcing you to move and prioritize your attacks
• Pain sectors to restrict movement
• Add turreted monsters while also having monsters on the ground, forcing you to move and not just stay in one place
• Keep the heavy weapons to a minimum, or, if you give them, restrict the ammunition
• Rocket launcher fights in somewhat tight quarters (not enough where you're constantly hurting yourself, but enough so that there's a risk that it could happen)
• Have teleport ambushes occur at multiple spots simultaneously instead of just having them all teleport into the same spot

 

You should definitely do your own playtesting, but keep in mind that you, as the maps's creator, will always have a bias because you know where things are and what fights will occur when. Testing by yourself is a vital tool in your arsenal, particularly because if you find yourself running out of ammo, or needing more health in particular areas, it's probably a good bet that other players will run into similar issues.

 

I also agree with the contention by ImproversGaming that it is important to have "some good playtesters in early to provide feedback about the balance you are looking for." You should probably start getting their feedback after you've gotten it to a mostly finished state.

 

However, be aware of the playtesters that you have, and what are their skill levels. For instance, if your playtesting team consists of Ancalagon, Bdubzzz, Nevanos, and Scotty, and they tell you that your map is challenging on UV, then you've probably succeeded in making a map that most players will find incredibly difficult, if not impossible. Similarly, their feedback on lower difficulties, while valuable, might not be as useful as someone who typically plays on the lower difficulties.

 

On the flip side, if your playtesting team consisted solely of Major Arlene and me, and we told you that the map was reasonable on UV, a number of players would probably find it too easy. However, our feedback on ITYTD/HNTR would probably be spot on.

 

It's also critical to remember that you don't have to listen to your playtesters. If there is something that you really like, but they really hate, you don't have to change it to suit them. But you should definitely weigh their critiques and decide what to do without completely dismissing them. And if you do decide to keep something, have a good reason for it.