Windows 11 to require an online account for ALL installations (including Pro)

[MFG38]

This week in "Microsoft Adds to the List of Reasons for People to Go Linux": a Microsoft account will now (or soon) be required for all editions of Windows 11. Including Pro.

 

Quote

The new feature that Windows 11 will require a Microsoft Account is being tested now on the Windows 11 preview builds track, but already has users and most especially IT personnel concerned. Some machines are imaged or have a basic copy of Windows installed with no internet access, or perhaps it’s a complicated build with a prickly driver installation.

 

Naturally, there’s also a concern with privacy that some users have had since the release of Windows 10 – cementing your Windows operating system to a Microsoft Account essentially gives them free reign to collect your personal data – browsing and whatnot – to potentially advertise things to you.

 

^{(Full article is linked below.)}

 

Granted, it's only in the Insider build (FOR THE TIME BEING) and being tested, but I for one greatly dislike this change and am concerned over Microsoft's increasing insistence on people using online accounts to even be able to use their OS. It already happened once with Win10 - I should know, I was there to witness it when I did a clean reinstall of Win10 on my parents' old-as-time-itself laptop. I have a feeling that it's only a matter of time before this change gets rolled out to regular users - Win11 Pro users, I might add - and causes a Windows-to-Linux mass migration. Or Windows-to-Mac, which arguably isn't much of an improvement as far as privacy is concerned. Either way, between Microsoft's experiment with ads in the file explorer and this, I can safely say that my desire to never install Windows 11 only grows stronger by the week.

 

What do other peeps think about this?

 

Source: https://nichegamer.com/windows-11-will-require-a-microsoft-account-for-all-install/

[continuum.mid]

Every time Microsoft does something that would justify a mass Linux migration, it doesn't happen. There's maybe a few Mac and Linux migrants, but not enough of the latter to increase Linux's marketshare significantly, or enough of the former to discourage Microsoft.

 

That said I think any IT professional or power user which relies on an offline installation of Windows, or on offline accounts, is going to be understandably angry about this. Either Microsoft will back down on this change, Microsoft will offer a "pro" or "enterprise" version with offline accounts, or those IT departments will start migrating to Linux. I think it's likely, even then, that Windows will remain the major operating system among home users.

Edited April 7, 2022 by northivanastan

[AndrewB]

I ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ my Windows 7

[MFG38]

10 minutes ago, northivanastan said:

[...] I think it's likely, even then, that Windows will remain the major operating system among home users.

 

Yeah, and that's what kinda concerns me. The average Windows user arguably sticks to Windows because It Just Works™ for them and they either don't know about or outright ignore the warning signs that Microsoft keeps giving. Granted, there's bound to be some relearning of things even between versions of Windows, but fundamentally, the core Windows experience has stayed the same (with the exception of Win8). But putting that aside, the fact that Windows is still the world's most installed OS despite having turned into what's essentially Microsoft spyware is a pretty clear indicator of widespread ignorance among the majority of the computer-using population. Or maybe they do know about all of that but still stick to Windows because, once again, It Just Works™.

 

Now that it occurs to me, I'd be curious to know if any schools anywhere tackle this subject at all. I know it's not a thing in Finnish schools - I should, I am Finnish - but I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to add some teaching about the three "big" OSs to school curriculums across the globe. If nothing else, it'd serve as a way to let students know that Windows isn't the only OS in the world and that there's a less intrusive alternative.

[HavoX]

Well, what can I say? It's another case of Microsoft being Micro$oft. As usual.

 

I had mentioned in another thread that if something like this happens, I'd make the switch to Linux in the future. This may not be guaranteed, however; one day, I might be able to figure out how to recover my Microsoft account and use it.

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

To be honest, I'm not surprised.

Spoiler

I miss Linux sooo much

 

[Lippeth]

Every time I renew an interest in migrating to Linux, I remember Pro Tools is Windows and Mac only.

[Frost-Core]

And thats why i hate microsoft of 2022, i'll keep my windows 8.1 (oh god please don't release an update that FORCES me to login with a microsoft account), also i do have arch (btw), and it runs the fprt (first person rip and tear) DOOM! how awesome!

Edited April 7, 2022 by Frost-Core

[gwain]

10 minutes ago, Lippeth said:

Every time I renew an interest in migrating to Linux, I remember Pro Tools is Windows and Mac only.

remindes me of the time I got a focusrite that comes with abelton lite but cant use abelton

[Dragonfly]

This all seems like an over the top reaction to me. It's just a bit of anti-piracy, in reality.

 

Quote

 

Windows 11 Pro edition now requires internet connectivity during the initial device setup (OOBE) only.

 

 

Like, it's during setup only - On an "insider build" no less. The cynical and over-the-top view I have is that close to everything relating to computers these days is tracking you, be it for advertising, usage statistics, etc. Get over it.

 

If you are genuinely that concerned about your privacy for whatever reason, you shouldn't be using these kinds of devices in the modern day, as it's simply unavoidable.

 

Spoiler

As for the whole OS debate going on...

 

Linux:

• Compatability lacking with a lot of software (getting better over the years, albeit very slowly)
• Overwhelmingly confusing OS landscape with god-knows how many different options, makes it an unpleasant thing to approach for even relatively computer-literate users
• Requires better understanding of computing than competing OSes for day to day use, generally speaking
• Free
• Probably not tracking what you do... Hard to say unless you can be bothered to learn, understand, and scour through the source code of your selected distro
• Zealots. Zealots everywhere.

 

Mac:

• Infinitely worse than windows in almost every way. ^{Yes, this is an opinion. No, you won't convince me otherwise.}
• Generally a lot more expensive, both from initial investment and ongoing usage
• Hardware-locked to specific apple-manufactured machines
• Privacy concerns

 

Windows:

• As others have put it - "It just works™"
  • When it doesn't, there's so, so many more resources available to assist in making it work
• Privacy concerns
• Requires a connection when setting up on win11 insider builds only.
• Certainly far from perfect, but leads the pack from the perspective of the average end-user.

 

 

 

As someone who uses Windows while connected to the internet, this development is no issue to me, especially since it's only required during installation. Don't get me wrong, I don't like this addition, but this all just feels like we're bandwagoning on todays hot topic, privacy, especially since we're discussing this via an internet connection.

 

Talking of those that use their PC without connection, well, you use it without connection, meaning you're likely on an out of date copy of the OS, meaning you likely won't care about upgrading to win11... but if you do want to, just connect while you set it up and then disconnect..?

[DannyMan]

I don't think I am switching to Windows 11 ever again.

[HavoX]

@Dragonfly

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. But still...

Edited April 7, 2022 by HavoX
typo

[Dragonfly]

Yeah, the overall situation's not great, but from fear of sounding basic - it is what it is. 🙃

[rzh]

9 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

This all seems like an over the top reaction to me. It's just a bit of anti-piracy, in reality.

I will never, ever apologize for pirating software.

If there is no good FOSS equivalent, pirating it is.

If it's good software, I'll gladly pay for it, but Microsoft, Adobe, Google really don't deserve any money at all since they don't use regional pricing, at least in my area and usually provide mediocre if not outright hostile features along with essential ones.

That and their policies, both concerning their customers and their employees, should be considered human rights violations.

10 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

Like, it's during setup only - On an "insider build" no less. The cynical and over-the-top view I have is that close to everything relating to computers these days is tracking you, be it for advertising, usage statistics, etc. Get over it.

 

If you are genuinely that concerned about your privacy for whatever reason, you shouldn't be using these kinds of devices in the modern day, as it's simply unavoidable.

This is very defeatist, it's like saying that if Ukraine is that concerned about it's sovereignty and independence it shouldn't try to hold onto Donbas, Luhansk and Crimea at all, it's simply unavoidable.

10 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

This all seems like an over the top reaction to me. It's just a bit of anti-piracy, in reality. relating to computers these days is tracking you, be it for advertising, usage statistics, etc. Get over it.As someone who uses Windows while connected to the internet, this development is no issue to me, especially since it's only required during installation. Don't get me wrong, I don't like this addition, but this all just feels like we're bandwagoning on todays hot topic, privacy, especially since we're discussing this via an internet connection.

 

Talking of those that use their PC without connection, well, you use it without connection, meaning you're likely on an out of date copy of the OS, meaning you likely won't care about upgrading to win11... but if you do want to, just connect while you set it up and then disconnect..?

Except that it will never always be just that. Microsoft is really trying to make Windows as inconvenient as possible to use if it's not properly licensed and connected to the Microsoft account at all times, locking display settings, stamping that ugly, ugly Activate Windows message on top of everything else.

That and sometimes it feels like they're genuinely insane, like their argument about filling out your RAM with bloat because "unused RAM" is "wasted RAM", yet if I disable all of that bloat somehow my computer is running much better without any significant issues that "wasted RAM" could potentially cause.

[gwain]

25 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

If you are genuinely that concerned about your privacy for whatever reason, you shouldn't be using these kinds of devices in the modern day, as it's simply unavoidable.

this unironicly^

 

I use a flip phone without a cmos battery and linux (op kinda feels like a shill ngl)

 

 

Quote

21 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

stop being a negitivae nancy about things okay

Edited April 7, 2022 by gwain

[MFG38]

@Dragonfly Not going to argue with your main point - I'll admit it's a valid one - but I feel the need to clarify that this development isn't the sole reason I've been looking into Linux lately. Hell, the first test build of Win11 wasn't even out yet when my first thoughts about it surfaced. But with the experiments that Microsoft have been running in the Win11 insider builds, you can't argue that they're doing them just for shits and giggles. If those things - and by "those things", I mean disabling changing your default web browser, ads in the file explorer and now this - made it even as far as an insider build, it should tell anyone in their right mind that they're not just toying around but actually thinking about making those additions. You wanna stick to Windows, you do you, but I for one refuse to turn my computer into Microsoft's personal playground if this is the path they're going down.

 

As for Linux's "lacking" software compatibility, the fact of that matter is that Linux, by default, uses a different executable format from Windows. .exe files simply don't run in Linux out of the box - if you wish to use your Windows software in Linux, you need something like WINE to run 'em. And if a Linux binary doesn't exist for a specific program, that's on the developer of the software in question, not the ones who maintain the Linux kernel and the various distros.

Edited April 7, 2022 by MFG38

[MFG38]

7 minutes ago, gwain said:

(op kinda feels like a shill ngl)

 

I don't blame you for drawing that conclusion, but rest assured I'm far from that. I'll admit that there are certain things Windows does better than Linux, mostly in regards to gaming. But then again, even that is simply due to the fact that Windows is the biggest OS on the market, so it makes sense to develop games with it as the primary target. At any rate, both OSs have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

Also, fun fact: I only installed Linux on my laptop towards the tail-end of last month, and I very rarely boot it up. Meanwhile, my main PC still runs Win10.

[Dragonfly]

5 minutes ago, rzh said:

Stuff

 

This is a very extremist perspective you have. Since you seem to like simile/analogy formatting, this is like saying "I don't agree with how much McDonalds charge for a burger and they cook the patty a little too much so I'm going to walk in there and steal the burger and still consume it anyways". The alternative should be to go to an alternative burger outlet, not steal it from the one you don't like.

 

But I'm not here to debate the ethics of piracy; at the end of the day what I see is a company who exist to do what businesses do - make money - and they're putting in preventative measures to stop people like yourselves from taking it for free. It'll eventually prove pointless, piracy almost always finds a way, and fair play to the pirates for that level of skill and dedication.

 

Honestly you should be thanking MS for being as lenient as they are in a way. Putting "that ugly, ugly Activate Windows message on top of everything" instead of outright denying your usage of the OS seems like a sweet deal to me.

 

9 minutes ago, rzh said:

This is very defeatist, it's like saying that if Ukraine is that concerned about it's sovereignty and independence it shouldn't try to hold onto Donbas, Luhansk and Crimea at all, it's simply unavoidable.

31 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

 

It's this part here I have the most problem with. That's an absolutely atrocious analogy and you know it.

Here we are talking about what is essentially an optional product/service made by a business, where if you don't like what they offer or what they do, you have a whole range of reasonable alternatives - You can simply choose to not use their product/service(s).

 

We're not talking about hundreds/thousands/millions of people losing their lives, where there are no reasonable alternatives they can simply choose.

 

 

 

--------------

 

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, MFG38 said:

You wanna stick to Windows, you do you, but I for one refuse to turn my computer into Microsoft's personal playground if this is the path they're going down.

 

Yeah, I'll give it to you that it does feel a bit haphazard etc, but I'm sure some of those are mistakes such as the inability to change default browser - that would be illegal if I'm not mistaken and wouldn't make it to retail... Then again, shouldn't have made it this far either.

 

14 minutes ago, MFG38 said:

As for Linux's "lacking" software compatibility [etc]

 

I'm well aware, they are entirely different OSes after all. This is almost entirely due to it's small market share - I can only imagine developers will look at linux and say "nah, not worth it" or "I don't use it, so I don't care" or something to that extent - and that's fair enough. I know that this mindset's changing over time, especially in the gaming scene thanks to Valve's push for Linux support - and that's a good thing as there's more options for everyone. But for me, not all software I use is available on linux, and while there may be some alternatives, I don't feel the need to change my current setup. If win11 proves to be problematic, I'll logically stay on Windows 10 for the forseeable or until a better alternative for my needs is available.

[thiccyosh]

A wise man once said: "Who the frick upgrades to Windows 11 when Windows 10 is good enough? ", and I think those are words to live by.

[rzh]

2 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

 

This is a very extremist perspective you have. Since you seem to like simile/analogy formatting, this is like saying "I don't agree with how much McDonalds charge for a burger and they cook the patty a little too much so I'm going to walk in there and steal the burger and still consume it anyways". The alternative should be to go to an alternative burger outlet, not steal it from the one you don't like.

 

But I'm not here to debate the ethics of piracy; at the end of the day what I see is a company who exist to do what businesses do - make money - and they're putting in preventative measures to stop people like yourselves from taking it for free. It'll eventually prove pointless, piracy almost always finds a way, and fair play to the pirates for that level of skill and dedication.

 

Honestly you should be thanking MS for being as lenient as they are in a way. Putting "that ugly, ugly Activate Windows message on top of everything" instead of outright denying your usage of the OS seems like a sweet deal to me.

Except that piracy is not stealing, no matter how you look at it. They don't lose a certain amount of a finite product, they don't lose something tangible at all. It's ridiculous to apply the same ethical principles to finite and infinite products since they have a completely different status.

And this idea that MS is making me a service is ridiculous.

One of the easiest comparisons is to Steam and GOG, which both offer quality service (with some exceptions). That is why I buy products from them, because the service they are offering is easier to use, safer and more supported than the alternative, which would be pirating games.

Microsoft intentionally gimping their service if you don't fork over hundreds of dollars is ridiculous.

Let's take my case for instance.

Buying a Windows 10 Home license is listed at 690,00 RON (Romanian currency). I work an entry-level job, earning around 2100 RON each month (after taxes), from which I have to pay bills, rent, food and other commodities. Keep in mind, this is far from minimum wage, which is around 1300 RON. So a Windows 10 Home license is about half of a minimum wage. And that's just the OS.

There are so many aspects of modern life that require access to the most commonly used OS and apps that it's ridiculous. Your school probably requires you to use a computer, and they're not going to provide you with it. Your job might, but they sure as hell need you to have access to a computer before that in order to apply properly.

14 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

It's this part here I have the most problem with. That's an absolutely atrocious analogy and you know it.

Here we are talking about what is essentially an optional product/service made by a business, where if you don't like what they offer or what they do, you have a whole range of reasonable alternatives - You can simply choose to not use their product/service(s).

 

We're not talking about hundreds/thousands/millions of people losing their lives, where there are no reasonable alternatives they can simply choose.

Except I'm not comparing the events, I'm comparing the mentality. I agree it was a bit exaggerated perhaps, but no one should ever, under any circumstances, regardless of the situation, accept their current condition if said condition is imposed from an external source. Any human being should always strive to improve their condition and re-negotiate their status with the opposing party from a position of strength, one that demands fairness in terms and equality under the law, and as far as I'm concerned, any concession made is equivalent to throwing away all progress made in regards to reaching that end goal.

[gwain]

11 minutes ago, rzh said:

wall of text

do not continuesly reply to something that has the potential to make you angry become happy become monkey

 

and if someone wants to continue to be angry just think of this: john pertucci joe satriani and eric johnson (literly like the best guitarist ever) went live together in a g3 concert like come on man thats the coolest thing ever! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2z_05NbOc you would have to be insane to still be angry

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by gwain

[Dragonfly]

14 minutes ago, rzh said:

more stuff

 

I can see we're best off agreeing to disagree, otherwise we'll derail into arguing that you shouldn't have to pay rent, taxes, and go down the whole "capitalism bad" discussion route - all stuff far more imposed on you than a the need for access to the windows OS. 

 

Though in the interest of helping out I will point out that, at least here, you can oftentimes get Global OEM keys for a pittance of the retail price, a quick search online I found some which when converted to your currency come out at around 150 RON.

[CBM]

I just hope that one day, all the DOOM tools that exists for Windows, will also exist on - or atleast be able to... run on Linux.

 

:-)

 

Windows is getting worse with each update... Windows 10 is bad but Windows 11 is really really bad

[continuum.mid]

19 minutes ago, CBM said:

I just hope that one day, all the DOOM tools that exists for Windows, will also exist on - or atleast be able to... run on Linux.

Yeah, I'm surprised this isn't already the case. All the major source ports are available for Linux, and the Linux port of Doom was how the source code was originally released. Several sourceports are in the Debian/Ubuntu repositories, alongside Freedoom and Doom Shareware, even. But if you want to edit WADs on GNU/Linux, SLADE and DeuTex are virtually all you have. UDB doesn't seem to run through WINE, either.

Edited April 7, 2022 by northivanastan

[CBM]

1 minute ago, northivanastan said:

Yeah, I'm surprised this isn't already the case. All the major source ports are available for Linux, and the Linux port of Doom was how the source code was originally released. Several sourceports are in the Debian/Ubuntu repositories, even. But if you want to edit WADs on GNU/Linux, SLADE and DeuTex are virtually all you have. UDB doesn't seem to run through WINE, either.

UDB really really needs to be made for Linux... like yesterday.

Windows is a burning platform and it has been for a long time because of Microsoft.

[MFG38]

Just now, CBM said:

UDB really really needs to be made for Linux... like yesterday.

 

There is a way to get UDB to run natively on Linux, but it involves building it from source. That and it's generally less stable than on Windows as far as I've heard.

[CBM]

2 minutes ago, MFG38 said:

 

There is a way to get UDB to run natively on Linux, but it involves building it from source. That and it's generally less stable than on Windows as far as I've heard.

Well, it would be cool if a stable version of the source for Linux could be made and form the basis for a stable Linux edition of UDB

[gwain]

11 minutes ago, CBM said:

Well, it would be cool if a stable version of the source for Linux could be made and form the basis for a stable Linux edition of UDB

udb runs fine on wine for me It even works with custom builder textures

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by gwain

[CBM]

2 minutes ago, gwain said:

udb runs fine on wine for me It even works with custom builder textures

cool, good to know

[Solmyr]

I guess i'll stick to Windows 7 and 10 for now.