Do you feel cells ammo is scacre?

[Hisymak]

I am constantly playing through various Doom megawads, and one thing I noticed for most time (at least if there are "normal" maps, not slaughtermaps or so) is that cells (the ammunition for plasma gun and BFG 9000) is rather rare ammo and I need to save it and use other weapons for most of the time (especially shotgun, for which I feel the ammo is the most common).

At least within the earlier maps in megawads, around the map where you first find a plasma gun or BFG, the cells are objectively rare, but in later maps there are mostly more of them. But still I cannot feel like using cell weapons as the primary weapons for most of the time (like I do with a shotgun) as the cells can get depleted fast and are less common than ammo for other weapons. Is it just a feeling, or mappers tend to overally put less cells into maps? Are cells considered as kind of "luxury" ammo the players need to use wisely and save for situations where really needed?

[sandwedge]

Yeah like you said cells are a luxury because they can trivialize a lot of fights, especially any low to mid tier enemies.  I usually use the plasma rifle as an OH SH*T switch, or before going into a teleporter or hitting an obvious trap if I'm concerned about dying and have the cells.  That's in maps that have less cells.  If you start getting into slaughter territory cells might be more plentiful and it's more about maneuvering than ammo.  Hell I just played a map (micro slaughter map 14) that gives you infinite cells for an entire fight!  Basically the tougher the competition, especially with boss monsters, the more cells you can expect.

 

I have played a couple maps, like I believe one called Sharp Things, which actually start you out with a plasma rifle, and it's actually kinda cool with how refreshing that is.  But the whole thing has to be balanced in that regard, and that map is pretty unconventional.  The lesson is hoard those cells and only use them when you need them!

[PasokonDeacon]

Too many maps will give you a plasma rifle but not enough cell ammo to use it regularly for top priority encounters. I do see it paired with archviles often enough, usually with a good helping of ammo just in case. But it's otherwise tricky to balance PR usage if you want the low/mid tier monsters to remain a threat. The PR's lack of cooldown, high damage throughput, and strong pain chance utility puts it above the SSG and chaingun in close-quarters hard brawls, even if it sucks for sniping. It meanwhile suffers from not beating out the BFG for total damage output in a pinch, meaning that a large amount of cell ammo only tends to appear when a BFG's either required for nearby fights or heavily incentivized.

 

I like to give out a lot of cell ammo even when there isn't a BFG, though. Much as I love the big 'ol crowd killer, there's a pleasant feedback loop and high-tier niche that the PR serves very well too. Cell charge packs have crept into my work since the first map I ever put out, and I wouldn't be surprised if that continues. Just handing players an easy BFG can trivialize a non-slaughter map, so I guess that's why I go for PRs instead so weapon progression's still varied but not lop-sided.

Edited April 12, 2022 by PasokonDeacon

[Shepardus]

Cells are a luxury, you're supposed to save them and exit the map with 600 to show how wealthy you are.

[ImproversGaming]

Agree with the other comments. The plasma weapons can be somewhat overpowering for more basic fights.

 

I enjoy hoarding cells and use these as a clutch weapon if I am in imminent danger or have high health enemies to deal. It can be a bit tedious to take on a Cyberdemon or Mastermind without plasma (for my taste).

 

I think that for early or traditionally set WADs this was the case but there are plenty of WAD developed more heavily around plasma weapons. Particularly higher difficulty WADs or with high enemy numbers.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

As a plasmaholic, I'm all in favour of extra cells.

 

It's really annoying on say HMP difficulty where-in the mapper adds less ammo to balance things but accidentally removes all cell ammo and leaving me with JUST the plasma rifle. Good against maybe 1-2 hell knights or a Baron but not several!

[sandwedge]

2 hours ago, Shepardus said:

Cells are a luxury, you're supposed to save them and exit the map with 600 to show how wealthy you are.

 

Definitely needs to be a mod where there's a plasma exchanger at the end of maps to trade for other drops.  A plasma ATM if you will.

[Nine Inch Heels]

3 hours ago, Hisymak said:

I am constantly playing through various Doom megawads, and one thing I noticed for most time (at least if there are "normal" maps, not slaughtermaps or so) is that cells (the ammunition for plasma gun and BFG 9000) is rather rare ammo and I need to save it and use other weapons for most of the time (especially shotgun, for which I feel the ammo is the most common).

At least within the earlier maps in megawads, around the map where you first find a plasma gun or BFG, the cells are objectively rare, but in later maps there are mostly more of them. But still I cannot feel like using cell weapons as the primary weapons for most of the time (like I do with a shotgun) as the cells can get depleted fast and are less common than ammo for other weapons. Is it just a feeling, or mappers tend to overally put less cells into maps? Are cells considered as kind of "luxury" ammo the players need to use wisely and save for situations where really needed?

I'm not sure where you're going with this, but scaling up the content, and "raising the stakes" over the course of a megaWAD by way of more and tougher monsters paired with increased firepower is a formula that has, in the grand scheme of things, stood the test of time...

 

For some people, plasma and BFG are "Late-Game" weapons, so that's where cells are being ramped up alongside rockets more often than not. PR and BFG are also very powerful weapons to hand out in the first place. Put them into the megaWAD too early, and with enough supply, and you'll see most of your ambushes going up in smoke, because the player is "overgunned". It's not so much a matter of "luxury" the way I see it, it's a general sense of "harder content = better weapons for the player". And why not? I mean, do you want to see people slog through 5 mancubi with an SSG in, like, map 29 of a 32 map megaWAD..?

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

No wonder, it's not easy to design a fight that's still challenging if the player has a full stack and a bfg. You kinda have to flood the player with monsters because it's so damn powerful. Either that, or drip-feed the cell ammo. 

[Pechudin]

53 minutes ago, HrnekBezucha said:

No wonder, it's not easy to design a fight that's still challenging if the player has a full stack and a bfg. You kinda have to flood the player with monsters because it's so damn powerful. Either that, or drip-feed the cell ammo. 

 

Or severely restrict the movement with damaging floors or walls. It's a challenge to make a nice, open map while at the same time constraining the player movement.

[Jacek Bourne]

9 hours ago, HrnekBezucha said:

No wonder, it's not easy to design a fight that's still challenging if the player has a full stack and a bfg. You kinda have to flood the player with monsters because it's so damn powerful. Either that, or drip-feed the cell ammo. 

Just turn it into a platforming fight.

[Plats]

5 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

Just turn it into a platforming fight.

No please

[Red Recluse]

Experiencing the pleasure of battle only overcoming large maps contains there are many monsters.

[Stabbey]

Ammo scarcity depends on the individual WAD and how the author intends the WAD to be played. The weapons which use cells are the most powerful in the game. The plasma rifle is excellent on every single enemy in the game, same with the BFG, the only real downsides are overkilling or spending more ammo than is necessary.

 

We're probably playing different WADs, but I find that a lot of maps can be trivialized if there are too many cell packs provided, as 100 cells is a lot. It's enough to kill 2 Barons of Hell (assuming no missed shots). In my own maps I am putting in few Cell Packs and putting in more of the smaller 20 cell charges more frequently - the "drip-feed" approach. This helps keep the plasma rifle still have enough ammo to be useful without having so much ammo that it trivializes all encounters.

[Nefelibeta]

What kind of wads are you playing anyway? I don’t think in modern megawads, mappers tend to not give you many cells.