MAYhem 2022 - MEMENTO MORON (On IdGames!)

[Xulgonoth]

2 hours ago, Obsidian said:

MAYhem 2022 version 0.1 is up!

 

Some notes:

• This is the very first draft of the compilation: a lot of graphics are still unimplemented and will be added or replaced as time goes on.
• The maps are ordered by date of submission and at the moment I require some suggestions as to what the optimal map order might be: I am what the kids call Good At Doom^TM and as such I'm not the best at gauging what maps are the most difficult, considering I can't beat the damn things. :P I have a couple of ideas, but nothing definitive and I'd very much appreciate some help.
• Beyond that, I'm also open to other types of feedback or criticism: what graphics could be used in the finished product, what bugs need fixing (both in the maps and in the compilation itself), whatever you think needs polishing up or replacing. This is a Community Project, not an Obsidian Project That Happens To Include Other People: speak your mind!

I included an updated version of my map in my original post a while back. I probably should have made a new post for it, but yeah. Also if we're talking map position, I feel like maybe my contribution might benefit from being a secret level, because I don't think a lot of people will enjoy my kind of inane shenanigans.

[Danlex]

Trying to load Map08 in the compilation crashes dsda-doom: "R_TextureNumForName: GREENMAP not found"

[Obsidian]

9 hours ago, Xulgonoth said:

I included an updated version of my map in my original post a while back. I probably should have made a new post for it, but yeah. Also if we're talking map position, I feel like maybe my contribution might benefit from being a secret level, because I don't think a lot of people will enjoy my kind of inane shenanigans.

 

Nice catch, cheers for that.

 

5 hours ago, Danlex said:

Trying to load Map08 in the compilation crashes dsda-doom: "R_TextureNumForName: GREENMAP not found"

 

A quick look in SLADE and apparently that's a...colormap? I think I excluded it because I didn't know what it'd do to the rest of the mapset and I figured it wasn't vital: @Kain D., what's with the colormap in your submission?

[Xulgonoth]

After some playtesting being done, I had to make just one more update, because someone managed to completely break two of the puzzles. You know who you are, I love and hate you both at the same time for always breaking my maps.
Here's the hopefully final version: Callisto Mansion_1.2.zip

Update log:

Spoiler

• Added some pillars to the guardian voodoo doll room so you can't just wallrun past the damn puzzle.
• Added 20 more presses on the TV required to reveal the yellow key vault, because 6 apparently wasn't enough for it to not be found randomly by mashing the use key. This is why we can't have nice things.
• Fixed a small handful of more texture misalignments.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Obsidian said:

A quick look in SLADE and apparently that's a...colormap? I think I excluded it because I didn't know what it'd do to the rest of the mapset and I figured it wasn't vital: @Kain D., what's with the colormap in your submission?

Also about this, since I'm already writing this post, it won't break the rest of the maps at all. Colormaps between the C_START and C_END markers are used in combination with fake floors and ceilings to give specific areas a colormap other than the default one, here it's for the underwater area in the southern circular arena. And if you wanna see an example of it being perfectly safe for every other map on the project, check out MAP07 of CC2, it uses an orange colormap for a whole hell section of the map.

[Obsidian]

Cheers for the clarification Xulgonoth! Here's an updated compilation that includes the newest version of your map and re-adds the colormap for MAP08.

[Lizardcommando]

MAP01 seems a bit too crazy to start off the megawad isn't it? Felt like something you'd see in one of the later maps, maybe somewhere around MAP16 and above.

[Obsidian]

22 minutes ago, Lizardcommando said:

MAP01 seems a bit too crazy to start off the megawad isn't it? Felt like something you'd see in one of the later maps, maybe somewhere around MAP16 and above.

 

Like I said, the current compilation is in order of submission. It is faaaar from final. :P

[A2Rob]

Just a heads up homie, I fixed some texture alignment issues a while ago for my map. Here you go.

[E.M.]

I agree with @Lizardcommando. My map is too hard for the MAP01 slot. I intended it to be put later in the set. I also agree that Xulgonoth's map should be put into one of the secret slots. No offense, but it's easy to see why that style of map never caught on.

[Argent Agent]

On 7/14/2022 at 6:15 AM, Obsidian said:

 

• Your bridges in the yellow key area appear to be somewhat borked.
• There's a couple of spots in the blue key area that haven't had the correct sky transferred to them: you can see them as you arrive.
• I also noticed some general texture fuckery in that same area, including the tables and the section with the timed switches.

Apologies for late reply; busy times.

I've fixed the skies in the blue key area. I've also looked in OpenGL and Software in DSDA Doom and Zandronum for issues occurring in the timed-switch area and with the tables and haven't seen any rendering issues on my side (apart from a slight bleed on occasion in the timed-switch area).

As for the bridges there are slime trails at the bottom of the slime pit (hence why I lowered it out of view. Not sure of what would be the best way to fix that at the moment). What does it look like on your end?

[galileo31dos01]

Fixed a softlock caused by a misplaced tree, greenpeace approved.

gal_mayhem22c

[Dragonfly]

6 hours ago, E.M. said:

My map is too hard for the MAP01 slot.

 

7 hours ago, Obsidian said:

Like I said, the current compilation is in order of submission. It is faaaar from final. :P

 

[Xulgonoth]

8 hours ago, E.M. said:

No offense, but it's easy to see why that style of map never caught on.

No offence taken. But you know, I hear this exact phrase a lot, I don't know who said it first, maybe MtPain27? In any case, I guess it's easier to see for some people than for others, because I really do wish this style had caught on. At this point I feel like I've played all of it and nobody really wants to make more, which is a bit of a shame.
 

Spoiler

Unless @Ribbiks ever decides to go full puzzle wad, which would be pretty poggers, because I really like that aspect of FCFF and Jumpwad.

 

[Obsidian]

I will readily admit that I found a decent amount of your map somewhat obtuse, but I have no intention of dissuading you from making more maps like it: I am very much a fan of puzzle maps of all stripes and what I did manage to figure out myself I often found quite charming in its own way. Keep at it, my dude! 

[Argent Agent]

Update on my map:

Fixes:
-Fixed sky issues in the Icarus section.

-Removed and replaced pure black texture/flat with ones used by texture resource pack
 

I have no idea how the bridges and tables got fucked, but they weren't in the original map. It could be from a node builder issue if this map were previously opened in Doom Builder and saved under a different node builder. For this map, the node builder I have used is ZDBSP - Normal (Zero Reject). (see below for how they appear on my end).

Spoiler

Anyways, download link here:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/u77laubv3xpmneg/AA_SimutechInc_V3.wad/file

[Obsidian]

3 hours ago, Argent Agent said:

It could be from a node builder issue if this map were previously opened in Doom Builder and saved under a different node builder.

 

That's most likely the explanation, yeah. Cheers for the update, I'll get a new compilation out later today.

[Obsidian]

New beta! Includes the updated submissions for Argent Agent, Galileo and A2Rob: give it a spin, get a feel for the maps and hopefully we can sort out a good map order for the finished product. Here's my thoughts:

• At current, the best candidate for MAP01 seems to be...well, my map. It isn't something I'd normally advocate for - the MAP01 slot is one of the most important in a megawad, after all - but after looking through all the submissions it seems to be one of the easiest maps (if not the easiest) and it isn't too high-concept or puzzley either.
• Bdubzzz's submission should probably be the last map: bloody thing's got 2000 monsters, heh.
• I was initially considering Kain D.'s and KUBA18i's maps for the secret slots, but folks have mentioned that Xulgonoth's submission would also fit and I'd be inclined to agree. There's an argument to be said for Danlex's map as well, but that one probably slots into the main line-up a little easier than the other options.
• I'd like to have the more gimmicky maps bookend the "episodes" (or where the text screens pop up, in other words) and as such I reckon Dac's map fits quite well on the MAP06 slot.

[Pixel Fiend]

Would you please write which wad each map gives homeage to in the description?

[Obsidian]

18 hours ago, Pixel Fiend said:

Would you please write which wad each map gives homeage to in the description?

 

Here you go!

[Pixel Fiend]

Truly invaluable info. Thanks

[galileo31dos01]

I'm currently playtesting the maps from the latest update (0.3) with the main goal of contributing to the map order thing. As of now I have checked up to 13 included, which was the MM10 inspired one, and I'm sorting them out more or less by what is my interpretation of difficulty/demand curve, but more about that later. Also any bugs or issues that jump in in the meantime I'll point them out too, and if I have time I'll do a general bugs check of all skills at the end. 

 

Anyways, so that you (Obsidian) know some help is in the process c:

[dac]

Did a small check, and at least on DSDA-Doom the map name for Beam me up Möller does not like the umlaut and simply won't render the entire letter.

 

On 7/24/2022 at 7:01 AM, Obsidian said:

New beta! Includes the updated submissions for Argent Agent, Galileo and A2Rob: give it a spin, get a feel for the maps and hopefully we can sort out a good map order for the finished product. Here's my thoughts:

• I'd like to have the more gimmicky maps bookend the "episodes" (or where the text screens pop up, in other words) and as such I reckon Dac's map fits quite well on the MAP06 slot.

 

This is a good idea, and if no other maps uses the MAP07 actions I'd prefer that part of the bookend - better to start the new "episode" with a gimmick than end it. Also as I mentioned my map isn't particularly continuous play friendly so it'd be less strange for a death exit to be at the end of an episode than just before the last level (Then again, I give a BFG for the next map, with extra ammo on HMP and below lol)

[galileo31dos01]

Well I'm done, yay. All maps were played on the latest of prboom's versions, UV/PS unless I felt like changing midway but fortunately it wasn't necessary. Bare in mind that I'm not the kind of player who actively seeks for breaking stuff (hire someone like Vile for this lol), but whenever I notice something odd on the fly, I do my best and search for any culprits. In non-linear or hub-like maps in specific, I will point out below my experience if it's of any help. 

 

Also I haven't fully inspected the other skills yet, and I'd like to ask for assistance on that since there are a few +40 minutes maps here and it would take me extra more days to come back with appropriate feedback, so if anyone wants to contribute, that would be great. As of now, I've only checked maps 01 to 03, and there didn't seem to be any glaring issues in those, which could be good. 

 

Anyways, observations will be preceded by "-" while my thoughts on map order by "+". The map order issue becomes harder once you think of skyboxes and themes and whatnot, so for example map with green sky followed by red then by green again is kind of off.

 

 

E.M. - I Hate The Antichrist

 

+ Somewhere around slot 20, better if in between a hypothetical batch of "harder" (longer) maps, as a breather would go fine.

 

- Only thing is skill differences: HMP felt identical to UV, aside from two less chaingunners and one less pain elemental, and both changes almost flew over my head if I didn't look in the editor. This could mean HMP could use a more notable change, like perhaps a freebie soulsphere, or UV have more trouble, like if you grab the secret BFG some extra things spawn at different intervals or something, but that's on the mapper. For HNTR I'd definitely swap the archvile in the RS for a HK, and maybe the caged chaingunners to evileyes (lol). 

 

 

Xulgonoth - Callisto Mansion

 

+ Definitely secret slot -- as a map 31 it would match with Eternal Doom, and as 32 you'll likely exit with supercharged BFG+megasphere.

- Technically nothing broke for me, and whether the gimmicks are sufficiently intuitive or not I can't tell exactly, because when it's "outside of the box" I don't know where's the line... My biggest roadblocks included the very beginning, the laser, and the TV, all of which were a brainwreck to even figure in the editor. In fact I was gonna complain about the TV, since the one near the fireplace wasn't interactive, but then my brain made the connection with you-know-which hint last minute. I also unintentionally puzzled out the archviles oven ahead of time -- on the HMP general inspection, when I entered the vent they weren't covered, and so I had to remember about the last time when I was experimenting elsewhere and thought "what if I leave these activated...", and yeah there was the answer lol... All good I guess.

 

- Misaligned tex here and here, and in the YK room but those aren't ugly imo.

 

- You can register the secret on sector 536 before raising the soulsphere, not sure if intentional or not.

 

- Kinda wished I had to chainsaw through the hanging bodies to reach the plasma gun :p

 

 

Roofi - The Sound of Muzak

 

+ Easily somewhere around slots 03-05, or else close to maps of similar cargo-industrial theme, since there are quite a few...

 

- You can reach the exit from around the start point by traversing the ledge sector 481, then hopping over the crates to the teleport and then head to the exit. Since there is the hidden goodies inside some lower crates, which don't seem accessible via any other way than from the ledge, I would assume it's all intentional (iirc Roofi likes to put optional, very well hidden things in his maps, as is the case in the other contribution), but maybe he can confirm this?

 

- This bit is misaligned.

 

 

NoReason - Yet Another Day in Hell

 

+ Next to other maps with red sky. A slot 22 perhaps, why not. 

 

- No glaring issues as far as I could tell. Good computer map use btw (;

 

 

gabirupee - Pinho Sol

 

+ Early slot, could fit after Obsidian's map thematically

 

- Took me a bit to get the gist of the map, as from a first and second glance it seemed like it wasn't tested in the right port, but I was fooled. No technical issues whatsoever, though I can foresee some people getting awfully confused at the YK, like myself :(

 

 

Lizardcommando - Cavern Research Facility

 

+ Since it ends in a cave, it could precede Obsidian's map, otherwise I don't imagine this one in a latter slot 

 

- As a minor thing, perhaps a RL and a few bonus rockets not in plain view, to spend on the cacos and HKs that can't reach you. Some interactivity via objects wouldn't feel bad - e.g. using computers to crash the two caged imps. It's all fine nonetheless, don't have to change anything.

 

 

A2Rob - Withdrawal

 

+ Somewhere in a cluster of green-sky bread-and-butter maps, between slots 07-11 imo... it's a solid episode opener where it is currently

 

- The final part was, little tame? Even as "cathartic rocket climax", it didn't quite get there unfortunately -- space is narrow and you kinda have to let them get closer to see multi kills with rockets in a more satisfying way, at least for me, because most stuff dies behind the walls if I start shooting right away. I would experiment with intrusive cacos on the sides of the bridge, but that's just me. Other than that, all good.

 

 

Kain D. - Memento Mourn

 

+ Mapper claimed slot 31 already, so Xulgonoth's might have to go in 32... that means I now have to rethink about Argent Agent's, dammit....

 

- Was expecting some convoluted, mazelike progression, but it was straightforward aside from the teleports, which as a setup to confuse players it's quite short. No technical issues on my side. Perhaps the YS wing could include two pain elementals on UV?  

 

 

To be continued...

[Worm318]

Testing beta 0.3 on UV Pistol Start and in random order because I don't think I will test (or beat) every map:

- MAP19 Concrete Cult: 5 or 6 attempts, tried different routes everytime. I didn't get very far in any of them tho. I think I had some ammo issues as I mismanaged the shellboxes I guess and tried to check on the horde of spectres. Demo in this link if you want to see me failing pathetically.

 

- MAP02 Callisto Mansion: This map produces me pain because I needed to solve it or I wasn't going to be able to move on with my life. Intermission screen said it took me 54:54 to beat the map, actually I played a few hours with saves and used IDDT and IDCLIP to check some things. Died a lot experimenting silly stuff like Rocket Jumping the laser (possible, although useless) or BFGing the archviles (not possible), but I was able to clear it legit eventually. I got stuck behind a box tho (screenshots in spoiler).

 

Spoiler

Edited July 31, 2022 by Worm318

[galileo31dos01]

Resuming...

 

 

Salmon - Hillside Dweebs

 

+ In my head it goes next to A2Rob's, whether before or after it's the right place imo, unless we want to match exits with starts thematically...

 

- Absolutely no issues 

 

 

General Rainbow Bacon - Mayhem Revealed

 

+ Somewhere between slots 11-14 perhaps

 

- Every pinky that spawns on sector 142 is stuck, so that side of the room is free

 

- I'm not sure about the barons and HKs teleporting at a slow rate, I had barons appearing with several seconds of delay in between, though since there's all the shit clogging the way out I guess it's not that bad...

 

- Lots of misaligned textures nearly everywhere, though I'm inclined to think it's part of the "charm"? if so, this one is definitely unintentional :p

 

- In the secret megasphere, you can use splash on the archviles while they're down and possibly "defuse" the entire ambush, or get closer to the edge and shoot BFG, either seem to work, since that part is at the end of the map so if it's inefficient it doesn't matter much, unless continuous. I don't consider this an issue per se, though I'm not sure if something here isn't intentional.

 

- I was conflicted by the invul secret, since it's possible that players access the secret and find no utility out of it, coming after the harshest fight which is the cacos/cybs/imps. BUT, on second thought, you can use it for the (awkward) secret HR1 reference, time is short but enough to at least safely off the archviles first. Or, I guess you could skip past the cyb trio, then on your way back make a beeline for the invul to clean up faster, though there's the risk of several instant rockets when you ride the secret lift, and you have to consider things clogging corridors, so idk, but it's a possibility... anyways, I'm only making this observation because I felt chatty about it. 

 

 

Obsidian - Sumptorium Steel

 

+ Very early, like a map 02 or 03 imo.

 

- All good.

 

 

Cannonball - Beam me up Möller

 

+ In the cluster of green sky maps, in my mind that is maps 07-11 so somewhere there

 

- Textures on lines 84 and 65 could be unpegged so the crusher doesn't "push" the walls, so to say.

 

- The water pit behind the exit is inescapable and harmless, not sure if intentional or not, there's no reason to fall down there anyways

 

 

Large Cat - A Man Shunned

 

+ I'm uncertain honestly, I can see it somewhere around 11-14, or 16-20

 

- All good. Cool chess secret.

 

 

Danlex - Veteran's Entry

 

+ Between maps 16-20, maybe not too close of Xulgonoth's 

 

- Minor thing, maybe hide these lines so one doesn't confuse them with a potential secret? 

 

 

Roofi - The Flowing Station

 

+ An early slot would suit, as a map 04 or 05 perhaps, or as an episode starter it's also good, so slots 07 or 12 can be considered (yeah I know this isn't very helpful, it's tough!)

 

- Haven't found any issues at all and I dig the little bonus stuff.

 

 

Scypek2 - High Revoltage

 

+ Either slot 12 or 16, but I can see it as 16

 

- All good

 

 

Dac - Caco Ball Torture

 

+ I don't know honestly - on one side, I'd be tempted to vote for slot 01, considering how tiny it is and strictly balanced for itself, though on the other side, if following maps don't give any cell ammo, you'd be carrying an empty BFG for a while on UV, and that's not bad either. As a map 06, eh, maybe?

 

- I'd unflag the soulsphere at the start on skill 4, I think with two soulspheres is enough - one for cushion, the other for recovering, should you catch one rocket. The room isn't that cramped, if anything it's the BFG part where you can mess up. Up to the mapper, there's nothing wrong with a little generosity!

 

 

Hitboi - Resorting to Plan B

 

+ I suppose map 15 because of the secret exit

 

- Sectors 144 and 45 are flagged secret, but it's not possible to register them unless you use noclip.

 

 

@Obsidian is this helping so far? specifically the map order thing :x 

[Obsidian]

8 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Obsidian - Sumptorium Steel

 

- All good.

 

:3

 

9 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

@Obsidian is this helping so far? specifically the map order thing :x 

 

It is helping tremendously! Very appreciative of the feedback you're giving and I'll be sure to credit you accordingly once things are wrapped up. :)

[Dusty_Rhodes]

I'll get my update uploaded tomorrow, keep me to it! Just generally improving gameplay and fixing bugs. 

[Worm318]

MAP16 High Revoltage: Cool city map with some classic but varied buildings (cinema, strip club, etc) although a bit square besides the initial tunnel. I found most fights to be pretty fair although the one in the tech-basey buillding can be a bit hard/grindy if you walk into it ill-equipped (in my longest run on the demo I died there anyways tho). I think the "archvile hiding around the corner" was a bit overused, although it was easily spottable and thus not that threatening. I was able to beat this map finding all secrets after reloading a save. FDAs of me dying miserably.

 

Spoiler

This dance floor was visually cool, but it was really noisy. I don't know if it's a configuration problem on my end (testing on DSDA-Doom, but I downloaded it recently to check it out). If I'm not mistaken you can reduce the noise by moving the auxiliar sectors far away.

 

 

Broken cinema screen.

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Worm318

[galileo31dos01]

NokturnuS - Concrete Cult

 

+ Due to complexity and its epic adventure feel, I'd say it can be a good map 11 (assuming 10 and 12 aren't that long). Basically closer to end of episode than starter, as it seems to have extra value if you enter carrying power weapons.

 

- Only two armors in lower skills might be a little extreme, granted not everyone's gonna stick to find the blue one even if isn't hard to find. On UV it's tight enough to make the first half just bearable with the hitscanners everywhere, and the blue armor gave me all the cushion I needed afterwards, except the hitscan rate was greatly reduced in the second half (for reference, "first half" to me is up to the sewers, though I know it's not the best way to measure sections in this one). I can't tell how HNTR plays at the moment, though I would consider either adding an extra non-secret vest somewhere near the sewers, or swapping green with blue. 

 

- One thing I noticed was the slow teleporting HKs in the baron+caco brawl, terribly slow, so you may want to tweak that setup a bit: add more spots they can teleport to, as well as refining the monster closet - less dead space between the HKs, more teleport lines. I recommend having a look this if necessary. I get the HKs are meant to "block" the staircase, and maybe you can place a few on top the BK if you want that effect better achieved. 

 

- Teleport thing 155 is flagged easy only, so on higher skills the teleport sector 12070 doesn't work, not sure if intentional or not. 

 

- The setup with blocked teleporting imps and barons, yeah that one was bit dull. Why not release each group periodically so it's a bit more dynamic than simply shooting rockets to stuff that can't reach you... maybe have a few blocking the switches as well. I also wasn't quite digging the rooms afterwards but that's because I was playing slowly and released each monster group one by one. With the caco/pinky horde outside, next to the four radsuits, how about spawning the pinkies behind the player, as a pincer attack sort of, because pinkies behind cacos don't do anything.  

 

- Spotted these misaligned tex: here (actually mismatching the other pillars), and here 

 

 

Pegleg - Third Step from Chaos

 

+ Hmm, I think as an episode starter it's good, map 21 for example because of the red sky and castle theme.

 

- Missing sky transfer action for tag 0 sectors here, line 3837 needs the action.

 

- Very minor thing, at the secret BFG you can hear the voodoo teleportation nearby, which isn't too bad though. I would still move the setup far away so as to not "spoil" the behind-the-scenes happening, if it isn't too much hassle, so up to Pegleg.

 

 

NeedHealth - Could be Worch

 

+ Since it's mainly metal-bricks, it might go well somewhere as a map 19 or 20, but if we don't gaf about theme continuation, then somewhere much earlier I suppose

 

- Some platforms on the blood are damaging while others aren't. In fact, the only non-damaging platforms are sectors 130/131 and 276, the rest do have the property. Not sure if intentional or not, it would be more concerning if we were talking about 20% dmg floors...

 

- Like in Pegleg's map, you can hear stuff happening nearby voodoo doll conveyors, and those can be misleading - I thought a secret was opening somewhere and searched around for a while. Perhaps they can be relocated far from the map? 

 

- Some ugly misalignments here

 

 

Bdubzzz - Paralyzing Odds

 

+ If sorted purely by combat difficulty, it might be better left for last. There are far more green sky maps than red, so if we considered bunching up all the green sky maps together, then this one still gotta be the final. I don't know man :(

 

- My order was north>south>west. The one thing I recall is coming out very low on rockets from north, because there were a lot of goat leftovers from the BK fight and I wasn't going to SSG them all, heh. This made things interesting in the south wing, the cyb shot right away and hit the HKs and mancs, which helped a lot, but that was a coincidence. You can yeet to the next room, the HKs will follow you and they can be helpful here, by blocking revs while you're dealing with cacos. That's just one observation. I'd perhaps swap the armor for megasphere on the BK fight for skills 1-2 but I haven't tested the current settings so, idk exactly how things go :p ... No technical issues as far as I know.

 

- Another observation, and more of a curiosity: in the finale, some of the cacodemons on multiplayer are on top of impaled human decorations, I think that would render them stuck in zandro or other ports? if anything I'm not sure whether these cacos agree with having a stick up in their holes :x

[Bdubzzz]

1 hour ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Another observation, and more of a curiosity: in the finale, some of the cacodemons on multiplayer are on top of impaled human decorations, I think that would render them stuck in zandro or other ports? if anything I'm not sure whether these cacos agree with having a stick up in their holes :x

hmm I think i did run through the map with co-op spawns in DSDA doom but ya didn't check the zdoom ports :^) either way idk how that happened, I probably added the decorations after the cacos... maybe? - either way will take a look within the next couple days