HMP shouldn't be scoffed at

[Fluuschoen]

1 hour ago, Andromeda said:

This only happens on ITYTD.

If I remember correctly, I heard it from somebody who's viewed as generally credible a while ago, but there's also the possbility that I might have partially blended everything below UV together, because after a closer examination, it seems you are right. No idea why I assumed that splash damage scales differently than direct hits.

 

[rzh]

This type of thread pops from time to time, but yeah, difficulty settings exist for a reason.

Heretic's OG campaign is for example better on Skill 3 rather than 4 because 4 isn't really any harder, just more tedious.

Ideally difficulty levels shouldn't even affect the number of enemies or something like that because I believe that the main reason people play on UV is that they feel they're "missing out" on the full experience.

I haven't completed a single map that I started but if I had the talent and concentration to pull it off, I could only see myself replacing enemies, ammo and pick-ups, not removing or adding them based on difficulty settings.

For example, some medkits might become stimpacks, a box of rockets a single rocket or maybe even shotgun shells for the double barrel. That way the flow of combat doesn't get messed with too much since both weapons fill a similar role, but I can think of very few encounters where I'd rather have a double barrel than a rocket launcher.

Barons become hell knights, chaingunners become shotgunners and so on (these are the easiest cases).

[TheMightyWhoosh]

Detouring slightly perhaps; which methods do mappers use when mapping out for certain difficulties? 
 

(IE - I tend to create a map for UV in mind, then remove a few enemies/replace with weaker enemies for the easy difficulties, then add in a few extra items/replace with superior items for easy/medium difficulties)

[Zulk RS]

22 hours ago, rzh said:

 

Ideally difficulty levels shouldn't even affect the number of enemies or something like that because I believe that the main reason people play on UV is that they feel they're "missing out" on the full experience.

 

 

I agree. While this is not something that I think can be done Doom unless you do some script magic, I feel like the thing difficulty settings should effect in a game is enemy damage, health and ammo gains and in some cases, slight  changes to the level to make certain parts easier. Like if a level had some  very thin and narrow bridges over insta-death pits, lower difficulties should make the bridges wider.

[joepallai]

On 12/28/2022 at 5:41 AM, TheMightyWhoosh said:

Detouring slightly perhaps; which methods do mappers use when mapping out for certain difficulties? 
 

(IE - I tend to create a map for UV in mind, then remove a few enemies/replace with weaker enemies for the easy difficulties, then add in a few extra items/replace with superior items for easy/medium difficulties)

 

So I map for HMP (my personal favorite level of difficulty) and I generally want it to be hard enough that I die say 25% of the time.   Then on UV I'll swap out health packs for med kits, chaingunners for sgts, revs for imps and reduce ammo.   I'll also increase # of monsters in general and add in the lesser loved monsters (pain elementals, etc).  I might even use different teleport destinations for UV than the other skill levels, just to get them closer or allow for me time to revive defeated foes in the case of arch-viles.

 

For ITYTD I'll reduce the number of monsters and increase armor drops, health drops, and ammo.   I may even swap powerups on this level (don't remember doing this yet but I like the idea of it).   

[Geniraul]

I absolutely agree with this.

 

It's true that "I'm too young to die." and "Hey, not too rough." are the difficulty names that sort of speak in the name of a player who's trying to make fun of themself (in a good way, of course). It's as if it shows that the particular difficulty is for the players who would say something like, "Oh Lord, please save my sinful soul from all these nasty and terrifying demonic creatures!" in the case of ITYTD and "Yo, I'm ready to fight, yo!... Hold on a second, this is too much already..." in the case of HNTR. This directly presents these two skill levels as some lighter settings to play with. 

 

That is while "Hurt me plenty.", "Ultra-violence." and "Nightmare!" are such difficulty names that speak for themselves and in cases of those, the game gives for the player the opportunity to understand that starting from HMP, the skill levels are for those who are ready to struggle and suffer to win. This can be easily figured out thanks to emotively colored words: "hurt", "ultra" and "nightmare".

 

However, just like HNTR (and maybe ITYTD as well), HMP voices a challenge in its name while still speaking from the player's perspective to warn them, whereas UV and "Nightmare!" rather just mention the difficulty level by describing it, even if they also underline the complexity. This can be interpreted as the fact that UV and "Nightmare!" are made for players with higher in-game experience.

 

But still, "higher" doesn't mean "regular", it should rather be considered as "extra". Then basing on the aforesaid, "Hurt me plenty" is the middle option, cause if there are some "extra" difficulties like UV and "Nightmare!" and some "lighter" ones like ITYTD and HNTR, then HMP is the normal one.

 

Another thing to be said, people who still use the DeathManager! can notice that when you insert a skill number into the appropriate field and when you put a 4 into there, it feels as "quite hard", whereas if you put a 2, it feels like "this is easy".

 

In fact, HMP being the classic normal middle difficulty totally makes sense already for the fact that it has 3 out of 5 as for the complexity, and all the skill levels are less or more balanced to provide the best experience for the player (the "not even remotely fair" warning is present for the "Nightmare!" as well, hah).

 

Basing on all that stuff, it really seems to me like HMP was meant by the original id team to be the classic difficulty to be played. Sure, nowadays it might feel different from what it used to be back in the day, but make a megawad with the same proportions (as well as names) between options to start the game with as it was in the original Doom and Doom II, and the layout of roles distribution between difficulties alongside their names will be kept. The more precisely done WADs like this there will be, the better HMP will feel as it was supposed to at the beginning. Obviously, there are truly A LOT of AMAZINGLY done megawads like this by today, the important thing is to keep the balance.

 

And then sure, there are some newer standards nowadays, from some point of view UV has become the classic difficulty very long time ago (especially, among speedrunners and doomtubers, ahah; I also called it so in my very first video). But this is to be convinced and ensured that you're definitely cool, as you can "overcome" the UV. You're definitely not uncool just because you play on HMP. It is always good for a doomer (and to whoever else) to be able to UV Max maps, but it should not be required from regular people. Doom is like pyramids — it was made in such a way, so that its traps and the mindset you need to deal with that would stay actual even years and years after.

 

P. S. I have no idea why did I say all that, because it was quite clear from the very beginning, but well, sometimes it makes sense to put the things in order, I guess, lol. And still, all this stuff can indeed be discussed; for some part, this is just my opinion.

[Ttom]

Im pretty sure that purists(elitist) is the reason that a lot of new comers leave. So many rules... Play the way you want, Doom is alive 2 decades after because of modding scene. I love to play a classic way, but i stiil enjoy a lot great modes like blades of agony. 

If you want to play on the easiest difficult then play it, a lot of people lie about their skills, remember that 99% of the community dont record their gameplay, so if you see some "purist" telling you to play on UV plus, fastmonsters on Haste.Wad... remember to ask them a demo. Doom is alive because you can play the way you want. Full modded call of duty weapons, or Quake 3 weapons with some crazy new enemies. 

I normally enjoy the classic way to play, a usually play on UV, but if its to hard for my skills, i dont give a crap, i lower it to HMP. There is no problem. 
Just enjoy it :)

Edited December 31, 2022 by Ttom

[Shepardus]

4 hours ago, Ttom said:

Im pretty sure that purists(elitist) is the reason that a lot of new comers leave. So many rules... Play the way you want, Doom is alive 2 decades after because of modding scene. I love to play a classic way, but i stiil enjoy a lot great modes like blades of agony. 

If you want to play on the easiest difficult then play it, a lot of people lie about their skills, remember that 99% of the community dont record their gameplay, so if you see some "purist" telling you to play on UV plus, fastmonsters on Haste.Wad... remember to ask them a demo. Doom is alive because you can play the way you want. Full modded call of duty weapons, or Quake 3 weapons with some crazy new enemies. 

I normally enjoy the classic way to play, a usually play on UV, but if its to hard for my skills, i dont give a crap, i lower it to HMP. There is no problem. 
Just enjoy it :)

Purism and elitism are different things. There's nothing "purist" about UV Plus, a difficulty mode that didn't even exist in the original game.

[Ttom]

17 hours ago, Shepardus said:

Purism and elitism are different things. There's nothing "purist" about UV Plus, a difficulty mode that didn't even exist in the original game.

Yeah you are right. Im talking about elitism.

The UV Plus was a exagerated joke, sorry if you didn't get it.

[Eurisko]

I play Doom on HMP.

The original Doom is pretty easy at this point on that setting for me but you take something like BTSX and play it on HMP..... It's a real challenge, kicked my arse. 

The difficulty and enjoyment of any Doom is relative to what is being played and by whoever it is.