Can't seem to find anything I actually like

[Sarmenti]

So, I'm having a bit of a crisis here, the problem is that I see people talking about a wad or project, I download it and try playing through the first 5-10 maps, and by the time I'm done I feel like I understand what I like even less.
It's not a problem of them being badly made, or the year they're from, or who makes them, I just can't seem to enjoy it. Plutonia, Ancient Aliens, BTSX, Revolution, TNTR, Memento Mori... the list goes on and on, only things I've really had fun playing were AV, UAC Ultra, Scythe 1/2, Eviternity and Going Down.

I don't know exactly what it is about that list that I don't enjoy, maybe it's long levels, maybe it's not having a straight forward objective and direction, maybe it's the combat that feels more like a slog that I simply have to know The Plan™ on how to beat it, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Not even trying them out with gameplay mods really does anything to make it more palatable. 

So that's why I'm asking, has anyone felt like this, like you just don't have the same taste that apparently everyone else seems to have? Looking at cacowards, downloading the maps and just something doesn't click?

P.S: I wasn't sure if this topic would be better on Wad Discussions or Doom General, so I'm posting it here as this feels like the more apt of the two. I'm pretty new to the forums, so if I'm screwing something up, do tell and I'll fix it. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Sarmenti
Forgot to add something to the list of WADs i actually enjoy

[Jiggahertz]

There's been times where I've played WADs that I've heard a lot about and have heard being mentioned and propped up a lot only to not really like them at all, such as BTSX E1 and and Scythe for example, but most of the WADs I've played I liked.

Interestingly enough though, almost all the WADs in my top 5 are relatively obscure WADs that I found just by browsing the forums, and almost all of them are GZDoom WADs, there's pretty much not a single mainstream WAD that's in my top 5 favourite WADs except for Sunlust

[thiccyosh]

Exactly how I feel. Most of the more popular megawads do look nice, but they don't really feel like it's worth my time. So what is my solution? Instead of megawads, try what plenty of mappers on Doomworld have to offer! Or, look up some "wads to play" threads and pick out what seems to be interesting. Most of the time these are smaller and lesser known wads, but you might find something you enjoy.

 

Or, you know, always can play some shovelware wads. That's fine too if it's your kind of thing.

Edited May 5, 2022 by thiccyosh
fixed a typo

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

I think the best would be to define what you liked about the wads you like, and what you didn't like about the others. Was it the gameplay style? The length of levels? The aesthetics? Every wad, and often levels within wads have a certain style, certain feel.

Personally, I'm not much into the generally praised wads. I like to shoot some demons with a double barrel for a few minutes, and then go about my day. So I know to look for short, easy, run & gun wads. For me, life is challenging enough as is, I don't look for more challenge in my off-time. Just wanna vibe, yk. So I know what wads to keep an eye out for. 

So yeah, try to figure out what you like. It's not always obvious. Just because everybody seems to love something doesn't you have to. 

[Captain POLAND]

Well am I going through the Wad progression for skill improvement thread

 

And I like many of the mapsets more than others. Thoughts on ones I have actually completed (except Moonblood which I am currently playing):

 

Doom episodes 1 - 4: Classic, love them

Fava Beans: Ok, kind of boring, not really memorable

Doom 2: Sort of boring towards the middle but still classic

TNT Evilution: Equal parts bad and good maps

Base Ganymede: Long, frustrating, not all that fun

Sigil: Very cool and atmospheric, love it

Moonblood (currently playing): Some maps are okay, but overall the progression is too cryptic and it's annoying

Memento Mori: Boring for the most part

Plutonia: Fun, kind of repetitive

Scythe: Love it except the speedrun level

Alien Vendetta: Love it

Hell Revealed: Pretty fun

 

[xScavengerWolfx]

This is a Plutonia map i've made a while back and it's my first attempt at making one. This is a update #1 of the map, always looking for feed back and it's only one level. 

 

Note: It requires the plutonia.wad file in order to play it.   

[baja blast rd.]

9 hours ago, Sarmenti said:

the same taste that apparently everyone else seems to have

This is not a thing at all. People have vastly different preferences; Doom is actually a creative medium masquerading as a single game. It's just that some very limited selection of wads always will get way more popular than the rest, not necessarily because it's way better than its cohorts, but because of feedback loops. 

 

Anyway based on your lists and comments try stuff like: 

 

Zone 300 and Zone 400

Ozonia

Don't Turn Your Back on the City

Hydrosphere

Violence 

Infection

Lunatic

Vanguard

Valiant (Ancient Aliens is different)

Sucker Punch and Sucker Punch 2

Moonlit District, Cold Front, Mayan Reynolds, Squonker 3, Pagodia

Deathless (if you like Ultimate Doom)

Intergalactic Xenology and Intergalactic Xenology 2 (especially 2)

3 heures d'agonie series (I liked 3 the best) 

180 minutes pour vivre

Tangerine Nightmare

The Alfonzone

Brigandine 

Demonastery

Nova 3
Team Rocket and Team Rocket 2

Hellevator and Skulltiverse

Rowdy Rudy 2 

Ray Mohawk 2

1000 Lines Community Project series (especially 2 and 3)

 

I'm just going to stop here...

[TasAcri]

You need to identify what is the thing you like about the wads you enjoy.

 

For me it's 100% the level design/art direction. I want detailed levels with many secrets and interesting areas to explore. I don't care that much about combat and enemy placement. You mentioned you liked Eviternity. This is one that i like because it has good art direction, good level design with detailed levels and good geometry and it's also pretty varied looking with many different episodes and many different visual themes.

 

One of the reasons i don't enjoy many of the so called best wads is that there is not enough visual variety. I don't remember which wad that was but every level looked thematically the same, with very little variation and a lot of repeated texturing/colors.

 

Another issue for me is the slaughter maps/arenas. They almost never look interesting to me. Arenas are usually boring, large areas that look like... arenas. And arenas look boring and very symmetrical in most games. So i avoid wads that have too many such scenarios.

 

My favorite wads so far are Eviternity and Knee-Deep in ZDoom. The later features large, ultra detailed maps that take too long to explore (which i like) but they do look interesting and varied all way through, with very few arena scenarios. Plus, it's interesting to see the similarities with the original 1st episode maps. I did edit out some things i don't like (the new weapons) and replaced with some other stuff though.

 

I also liked "Hurt" which is basically one massive map but also one of the most detailed and amazing looking.

Edited May 5, 2022 by TasAcri

[Biodegradable]

10 hours ago, Sarmenti said:

So that's why I'm asking, has anyone felt like this, like you just don't have the same taste that apparently everyone else seems to have? Looking at cacowards, downloading the maps and just something doesn't click?

 

I'm not sure how overly picky you are, but rest assured that given the non-stop creative output of the community combined with the 20+ years of archived Doom WADs, the likelihood of you never finding anything you'd enjoy playing is astronomical at this point. Just keep exploring different WADs and you'll find the kind of things you like in due time. When you do come across certain WADs you like, I recommend you do what I do by keeping tabs on the creators involved. Take note of their names, follow their accounts here on the forum and explore their catalogues using DoomWiki and the /idgames Archive.

 

There's plenty of Doom content for everyone of any level of discriminating taste.

[Dexiaz]

10 hours ago, Sarmenti said:

the list goes on and on, only things I've really had fun playing were AV, UAC Ultra, Scythe 1/2, Eviternity and Going Down.

 

Looks like you need less "classic styled" wads. Possibly you don't need to play regular 32-level wads at all. Try total conversions like Cold as Hell, The Ultimate Torment & Torture, Bloom, Total Chaos. Something is not "just Doom but with new levels"

[mrthejoshmon]

11 hours ago, Sarmenti said:

So that's why I'm asking, has anyone felt like this, like you just don't have the same taste that apparently everyone else seems to have?

If you ever feel like an outlier for your tastes then just know your an outlier in a sea of outliers.

 

If you don't like the "new" or "mainstream" maps and mods (like myself) then I recommend you start looking back and playing older and/or more niche maps and mods. You might get along more with the "underground" and seldom touched section of the scene.

 

A couple of suggestions are things like:

 

"Mark's Maps"

"Egypt.wad"

"Hell 2 Pay" (no link, unsure if still warez)

"The Rebirth"

 

Try em out, if you don't like them then look further forward or backwards, enough has released over the decades this game has lived, just keep looking and one day you'll find it.

 

[baja blast rd.]

Another thought: Most people would probably have a higher hit rate playing random wads in Wads & Mods -- especially standalone maps and smaller, shorter mapsets. (Defining "hit rate" there in a specific way as "I was able to finish this and find it at least decent.")

 

Bigger projects like megawads, especially ambitious ones, are automatically more niche in appeal for any given person, because they require hours of investment. If you don't like what they are prioritizing, you will feel that length. But a 15-minute standalone map could be basically anything -- and you'll be able to play it through as long as it isn't terrible and maybe get a novel, enjoyable experience out of that. 

 

The trade-off is someone has a higher chance of thinking something like Ancient Aliens is great and an all-time personal favorite (like maybe like 20% or something, vs. below 1% for any given W&M wad), but they have a higher chance of finding [random short W&M wad] to be an experience they can sit through from start to finish without bouncing off of it (maybe they finish it near 100% vs. and the average person quits megawads half the time, dunno what the numbers on that would be). 

 

Now, my favorite wads of all time skew towards megawads and heftier mapsets, because the upside of them is higher -- more of a great thing is better than less of an equally great thing. If you play 100 of them, you'll eventually find your 20-30 precious favorites, and that you bounced off of 30-40 is invisible in that.  

 

The community's Greatest of All Time list mirrors that. There is only one non-megawad in the top 25 right now, and it's not until number 40 that you get something that is a "miniwad" by map count. That's because everyone votes for what they love. There's nothing really measuring "of all the people in the world who played this wad, what % at least kind of enjoyed it and finished it." 

 

So a wad that 10% of people who played it absolutely loved (and 30-40% more liked and found playable, and the rest outright quit) will poll way, way higher -- and be spoken of much more often -- than a wad that literally 100% of people think is minimally playable and enjoyable but not "very good." That would be true even if a given person has a higher chance of liking the latter.

 

That is kind of a sampling bias worth keeping in mind, present in any collection of "Greatest" opinions. Includes the list I linked, includes informal "public opinion" that dictates what people talk about. (Also the Cacowards. And no it's not that whole "they don't care about the gameplay, only artsiness/visuals/impressiveness/bells and whistles" nonsense people say when they don't seem to realize the basic fact that others can like gameplay and core experiences that they bounced off of, e.g. Maskim Xul.) 

 

That being said, I think there is a lot of upside to playing things you might love and might hate. That is the best way to find wads you might really love. Exceptional work is by nature often divisive and not for everyone. Eventually the "risk" starts paying off, and you get better at predicting what you will enjoy. I don't think big projects are doing anything wrong lol. But there is a lot of value in starting with smaller mapsets if you're newer. (Also smaller mapsets can be exceptional too.)

[Sarmenti]

5 hours ago, HrnekBezucha said:

I think the best would be to define what you liked about the wads you like, and what you didn't like about the others. Was it the gameplay style? The length of levels? The aesthetics? Every wad, and often levels within wads have a certain style, certain feel.

 

3 hours ago, TasAcri said:

You need to identify what is the thing you like about the wads you enjoy.

What I enjoy mostly about them is the immediacy, you spawn into the level, grab a weapon and out you go. Shoot some demons, get some keys, open doors you passed by during the rampage, and continue on. Not once do you have to stop and study the automap trying to figure out what you missed or what that switch you just pressed did.

Another facet that helps that is the fact that most fights are "free-form", by that I mean that you can do them in several ways. You could shoot rockets at mancubi and deal with revenants with the SSG, or you could make them infight and pick off the stragglers with the chaingun. Just that little bit already makesa it feel much more fun and quick, It's less "figuring out the puzzle" and more moment to moment problem solving.
 

16 minutes ago, baja blast rd. said:

Bigger projects like megawads, especially ambitious ones, are automatically more niche in appeal for any given person, because they require hours of investment. If you don't like what they are prioritizing, you will feel that length.

I've been thinking about it and It's true, the idea of playing a megawad is really imposing, while going through a 10 map set is much more approachable and quick, that's one of the reasons I enjoyed UAC Ultra after all, was just the right length and didn't overstay its welcome.
Took a look at the list of recommendations you posted before, and tried out Sucker Punch, I really liked it, and am going through SP2 atm. Will give a more detailed explanation of what I enjoyed (or didn't) from your list after I've gone through them all. Cheers!

[rzh]

3 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

Valiant (Ancient Aliens is different)

Just wanted to say that I agree with this since Valiant is the only thing Skillsaw put out that I actually like.

He's very talented, but usually not my style at all.

[Sena]

I'd personally suggest that this isn't actually indicative of anything. BTSX, AA and others are just the 'canon' WADs, things that people have universally agreed upon are the best, but personal taste rarely conforms to that. The 'canon' for games as a whole would probably be Tetris and Mario 64, but these days nobody's interested in playing those games, they're playing CS:GO and Minecraft. The reason the popular WADs are popular is just because of a collective opinion, and I would consider it more likely than not that your individual opinion is going to differentiate from that.

[sandwedge]

sometimes I find I get overhyped for something that is universally celebrated and I feel let down when it isn't my favourite thing ever.  I was playing thru ancient aliens recently and although I really like it, it just hasn't absolutely pulled me back to play every time, even though some of the levels were spectacular.  what did pull me back was something like auger zenith, simply because I really love highly detailed maps, the difficulty level in that and the cyberpunk aesthetic.  I think it's also because ancient aliens as a difficult megawad can be daunting too.  But nothing wrong with that, we all have our own taste, just certain wads have a level of quality that are more likely to be enjoyed by many people.  same with movies, something might be a bona fide classic and you can respect it for that, but you personally might not enjoy it at all.  we're too complicated as creatures to have uniform taste.  anyway, hope you find more stuff you enjoy, sounds like people in here are helping you out!

[Zulk RS]

It's possible that you just need to narrow down what exactly you like from your Doom Wads but it is also possible that you may be going through some "Doom Burnout". Maybe you just don't want to play "Doom" perse but you want to play something that lets you shoot enemies. Try some other FPS games for a change maybe? Try out the IWADs again with something like Complex Doom or Brutal Doom. Maybe take a break from Dooming for a while.

[ReaperAA]

2 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

(Also the Cacowards. And no it's not that whole "they don't care about the gameplay, only artsiness/visuals/impressiveness/bells and whistles" nonsense people say when they don't seem to realize the basic fact that others can like gameplay and core experiences that they bounced off of, e.g. Maskim Xul.) 

 

Yeah I keep coming across these exact complaints about Cacowards (and Doom community in general) in a certain other forum (not referring to Doomer Boards here)

[TheLippyServer]

How far did you get in Ancient Aliens exactly? Just asking because, honestly the first 4 maps left me cold too, and I can honestly say map 5 might be my least favorite map I've ever played. I almost gave up on the entire WAD, but map 6 I thought was fun and map 8 made me want to finish the whole thing. I still think it's pretty uneven for me personally though. Skillsaw's work generally is hit or miss for me. The dude obviously has mad talent, and he's made some maps that I really love and count among my favorites, but he also has a few maps that I absolutely loathe. I think most of the best stuff in Doom 1 and 2 is Sandy's. I think Downtown is charming, and Barrels of Fun is actually... well, fun. LOTS of people disagree with me though. Everyone just has different taste. Keep poking around and you'll find stuff that you like. And always keep an open mind and be willing to maybe set something aside and come back to it. You might find it has grown on you some. No one has to like something just because other people do.

[tsathoggua]

 

17 hours ago, Sarmenti said:

only things I've really had fun playing were AV, UAC Ultra, Scythe 1/2, Eviternity and Going Down.

 

Seven WADs liked out of however many you've tried is a pretty low ratio, but it also seems like you now have fairly narrow parameters you can work from that should make things easier? I found a ton of posts on here searching for "WADs like Scythe," for example.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, maybe I should answer the question you actually asked... I think my taste is fairly conservative, in the sense that I like straightforward, tough-but-not-too-tough vanilla (or vanilla-ish) WADS that feel like logical extensions of the IWADS. I also prefer smaller and more compact to big and sprawling (Scythe is a bit too slaughter-y for me though; something like Deathless is more my speed). I'm not quite sure how in-step that is with general community taste, but a fair number of people at least seem to keep making that sort of thing.

Edited May 5, 2022 by tsathoggua

[Dubbag]

Alot of cacoward winners are those big, grandiose, over detailed wads that seem like such a huge undertaking to play that I don't even fuck with them. Not to mention they'll run your computer into the dust if you have stock hardware.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Dub Bag

[Sarmenti]

2 hours ago, TheLippyServer said:

How far did you get in Ancient Aliens exactly?

Like Map 08, just felt overlong and like it took too long to get anywhere. Plus, I'm not really a fan of its brand of combat.

[The_SloVinator]

I've been there.

 

Most of the Cacoward winners I've played are fantastic & the effort it was put in is quite clear but they always have to have that one Doom pet peeve I despise, in it & in the process, nearly ruin my fun experience up to that point.

 

(i.e. cramped area with three Cybers, Caco spam, Baron spam, repetitive traps, small but frustrating difficulty spikes...)

 

My suggestion is to find a type of wad you'll enjoy most of the time. For me, I cater more towards the classic 90's wads.

 

[Egg Boy]

2 hours ago, Dub Bag said:

Alot of cacoward winners are those big, grandiose, over detailed wads that seem like such a huge undertaking to play

Not sure if I'd call Ancient Aliens, BTSX, 1000 lines 3, Syringe, Cydonia, and Mutabor even remotely "over detailed." Many of these have refined visual styles, they are beautiful, but its due to the use of strong, consistent architecture rather than over the top linedef usage. Especially for a vanilla project like BTSX, you don't have a lot to work with so you have to rely on these things. I'd say roughly 1/2 of all cacowards feature wads in a similar boat.

[baja blast rd.]

11 minutes ago, Egg Boy said:

Not sure if I'd call Ancient Aliens, BTSX, 1000 lines 3, Syringe, Cydonia, and Mutabor even remotely "over detailed." Many of these have refined visual styles, they are beautiful, but its due to the use of strong, consistent architecture rather than over the top linedef usage. Especially for a vanilla project like BTSX, you don't have a lot to work with so you have to rely on these things. I'd say roughly 1/2 of all cacowards feature wads in a similar boat.

 

Yeah I was going to say lol. Even the year that had the highest % of super grandiose high-detailed wads in recent memory (2020) still had a very even balance of short to long maps/projects, and low-detail to mid-detail to high-detail. (Not touching the word "overdetail" which is an implied negative.) 

 

(lower detail)
Three is a Crowd
RR2: Powertrip

Syringe

Mutabor  

 

(mid)
Running Late 2
Faithless Trilogy 

 

(high detail)
Antaresian Reliquary

Abandon
Bastion of Chaos (had low-spec version too)
Ar Luminae 

 

Obviously big projects and high-detail wads aren't going to be excluded, so a balance like that is pretty good. 

[RonnieJamesDiner]

For what it's worth, the kind of custom Doom wads you enjoy isn't always going to be as cut and dry as, "if you enjoyed x, you'll probably enjoy y, but stay away from z". It can certainly be accurate, especially with suggestions being offered by players who have a ton of experience (based on your list of preferred wads, I thought rd's suggestions seemed pretty bang on, for instance).

 

But, in my personal experience, there are all kinds of things that play into my enjoyment of custom Doom maps. My tastes are almost constantly changing (perfect example: I used to hate slaughter, now I love it). I've loaded up wads in a shitty mood, and wound up having a terrible time simply because I had no patience, or any real interest in what the wad had to offer (only to go back to it months or years later, in a much better frame of mind, and have an absolute blast). I've tried going back to wads that left a bitter taste in my mouth, wondering if it was the fact that I played them on UV when I shouldn't have, and ended up loving them on HMP or HNTR. I've enjoyed wads purely for the feeling of nostalgia they gave me, related to one thing or another that happened to hold a special place in my heart. And hell, even just improving over time has given me new appreciation for wads. Scythe 2 was the first PWAD I ever downloaded, and I remember bouncing off of the last 2 episodes so hard I thought I had a concussion; hated those episodes. Went back to it a few years later, and bam, loved them. 

 

I've also found a lot of unexpected joy just trying different types of maps, other than the ones I normally gravitate towards. For a long time I had decided that I didn't like Doom 1, for no other reason than it had no SSG, Revenants, or Arch-Viles: then I stumbled onto wads like SPECTRUM and Sinergy, randomly decided to play them, and realized I was an idiot for thinking that I didn't like Doom 1 - those wads were awesome! Or, I'd try wads/mods that seemed way out of my "comfort zone", like Comatose, or Grove, or Shrine II, and discovered something new and weird and fantastic, and loved every minute of them. Why? Who knows, maybe they just clicked with me at the time, or they were very well made, or both, or neither, I have no idea.

 

My point is, I think there's a lot more than meets the eye that goes into having a good time with any random PWAD. So, I wouldn't stress too hard about finding the stuff that suits you. If you really enjoy playing Doom, just keep trying different maps and megawads, and you're bound to continue running into stuff that you enjoy.   

[ImproversGaming]

I love this statement, it is so true for me.

 

23 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

"People have vastly different preferences; Doom is actually a creative medium masquerading as a single game."

 

Despite the fact that we often refer to playing "Doom" as a specific thing the actual amount of variety that is achievable is pretty astonishing. And I don't just mean maps, but everything, mods, source ports, sound tracks, mechanics, monsters, weapons, texture packs, story lines, themes, puzzles, etc. (anything really).

 

So as a specific response to your query I think that given the level of variation it is not that surprising that there may be a narrower set that suits your preferences better and these may not be the most popular ones generally. I feel like I am reasonably well aligned with the most popular WADs, but this is pretty biased as those are the ones that I play most (hence, I agree with the comment about feedback loops - I don't seek out less popular WADs that may be a better fit for me).

 

As a side note I would certainly recommend reflecting on what you want from playing and what combination meets this best, and continue exploring. For example I am somewhat accomplishment driven. I have a goal to complete a set of WADs. I play these in sequence and aim to beat them with some conditions I have set for myself. I like to explore the maps and find my own routing and search for the secrets before I complete them. I find this fun generally, but also enjoy the thrill of completing each map/WAD and this reinforces my enjoyment.

[Egregor]

I haven't read all the comments here, so maybe this has been previously mentioned, and obviously on a website called "Doomworld" this could be seen an unpopular opinion, but...

 

Maybe Doom isn't for you. Maybe your burnt-out. Maybe your chasing nostalgia that came from the wonder of exploring a new and exciting medium, which will only ever become less magical. Maybe your sick of the brutal yet repetitive ultra-violence and lack of intrigue and dialog that narrative based games deliver.

 

I often find myself in the same boat; boot up Doom and get 25 minutes into a level and just say "fuck it". Not because I died, not because I got lost (well sometimes for those reasons) . Honestly, looking at a wall of barons or pinkies will cause me to skip past a level. The slog grinds away at my soul.

 

There's a lot of folks here saying "just keep looking" or "try this mod". I say if your not feeling Doom go for a walk, read a book, call a friend. Try something else out, it's a big ol' world.

[Somniac]

Sometimes I boot up one of my favourite WADs to find I'm actually just not in the mood. It happens.