JAMAL JONES TRILOGY - Old development thread - [Doomkid's 20 Years Mapping Contest]

[valkiriforce]

Color me interested - I might see about coming up with something for this. Gonna shoot for that undying love & gratitude - I can't lose.

[Doomkid]

5 hours ago, holaareola said:

Not sure I have the time, but just in case, does the savegame buffer overrun count as non-vanilla compatible here? It's a natural guide back to the 90s style I suppose!

While it’s preferred if you can save - those frustratingly low limits like save game buffer and even the drawseg limit can be passed without much worry. As long as it doesn’t crash during gameplay, that’s my bar of entry. (Heck, of the handful of 90s maps I downloaded and enjoyed back in the day, even half of them passed the save game and drawseg limit!)

 

3 hours ago, Astronomical said:

Is this if you only rename the sprites?

I have found that vanilla doom will accept s_start if all names are the same, But you would also need to include all sprites from the iwad, and while I don’t believe that is illegal, it balloons the lump count. 

Yeah, it’s essentially to avoid having to include all those extra frames - vanilla doesn’t mind if you add new sprites, so long as you also use a DeHacked patch to rename them. This gets around having to use DEUSF.exe in DosBox, which actually alters the wadfile. 

 

(Thankfully this was replaced with the -merge command in Chocolate Doom, and is not necessary in any other ports)

[Astronomical]

15 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Yeah, it’s essentially to avoid having to include all those extra frames - vanilla doesn’t mind if you add new sprites, so long as you also use a DeHacked patch to rename them. This gets around having to use DEUSF.exe in DosBox, which actually alters the wadfile. 

 

At a certain point I prefer to just copy over the sprites, as replacing the names in whacked can be annoying at a certain point, sadly this is why Total Carnage had to be spit into two wad files.  However Tcarnp2.wad can be loaded as a gameplay mod however.

[NiGHTS108]

A chance to officially work with a few Rowdy Rudy’s Revenge assets? Hm, might check this out

[OverflowingMocha]

11 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I may actually change the skies, but just to other subtle/natural skies that should mesh just fine.

In this case then should I use a custom sky texture or should I use the stock skies from the IWADS like doom 2 or plutonia?

[Doomkid]

14 minutes ago, LGmaire said:

In this case then should I use a custom sky texture or should I use the stock skies from the IWADS like doom 2 or plutonia?

For the time being, just stick to IWAD skies. I'll get 3 new skies added into the resource pack soon to avoid confusion though!

 

Basically, make your map expecting the sky to look like: The Doom 1 E1 sky, The Doom 2 E1 sky, or for later maps, a general "Helly" sky.

[Astro X]

That's a very nice project! I can try to build a doomy map, even though I'm one unorthodox mapper in the community here.

 

If I'm allowed, I'd like to ask about how difficult and lengthy should these maps be, coz I tend to build unnecessarily long and difficult maps lol.

[Btyb88]

I'll probably try and contribute to this. Would be my first vanilla map in 15 years or so.

[The Almighty Egg]

Is there a way to know if your map crashes vanilla right out of the bat? I use vanilla format but I overdo it some times with the decorating and it's a bit of a hassle to try to explore the level to find the one place on the map that causes vanilla Doom to crash.

[Klaesick]

I feel like I should enter a map, but sense it would be my first, I don't think it will be good. But it might be fun!

[Doomkid]

39 minutes ago, Astro X said:

If I'm allowed, I'd like to ask about how difficult and lengthy should these maps be, coz I tend to build unnecessarily long and difficult maps lol.

It shouldn't be TOO long or brutally difficult, but ultimately I'll leave that up to the mappers. I tend to prefer a more chilled Dooming experience, but at the same time I've been really "WOWed" by long and tough maps too, so one certainly may end up winning.

 

10 minutes ago, Eggman07 said:

Is there a way to know if your map crashes vanilla right out of the bat? I use vanilla format but I overdo it some times with the decorating and it's a bit of a hassle to try to explore the level to find the one place on the map that causes vanilla Doom to crash.

9 hours ago, Doomkid said:

if using Ultimate Doom Builder or GZDB, you can use the "Visplane explorer" option. This will show red areas where the the game will crash if the player walks because too many sectors are in view at once.

 

you can try using ChocoRenderLimits. It will tell you in real time as you test your map if it's breaking limits (Link at bottom of page)

 

Between Visplane explorer and ChocoRenderLimits, it becomes a whole lot easier to make sure your map is conforming to vanilla's rather strict limits!

If you're using Ultimate Doom Builder or GZDB checking visplane explorer is a breeze, but for other platforms, ChocoRenderLimits is also super helpful (I've used it a number of times).

 

EDIT: On that note, I just want to mention that any "red splotches" indicate areas that will actually crash the game, but sometimes ChocoRender seems to do a more thorough job and find even more crash spots that Visplane explorer may not (it's pretty rare, though).

[Syn]

I might see what I can put together, I do need to get a bit more mapping experience on my belt...

[TubularB1Us]

Question - I'm not as familiar with ChocolateDoom as I am GZ, so how exactly do I load custom WADs? Every time I drag my map onto the EXE it'll automatically load Plutonia for some reason, assuming that's how it's even done. On a side note, I'm not very familiar with the DOS platform as a whole either, so.

Edited January 5, 2022 by TubularB1Us

[Astronomical]

5 minutes ago, TubularB1Us said:

Question - I'm not as familiar with ChocolateDoom as I am GZ, so how exactly do I load custom WADs? Every time I drag my map onto the EXE it'll automatically load Plutonia for some reason, assuming that's how it's even done. On a side note, I'm not very familiar with the DOS platform as a whole either, so.

I've heard of Chocolate doom launchers, but I like making batch files.

"Chocolate-doom -file oneman.wad -deh oneman.deh" In UDB you can add it as a sourceport, when adding it allow for custom parameters and add on the end "-Dehlump Dehacked" to auto launch the dehacked file in UDB.

[MEMEAIDS]

I am SO gonna stick my leg out on this one

[The Almighty Egg]

Dumb question but how am I supposed to make a custom map using your resources?(This is my first time using custom resources).

[Dusty_Rhodes]

7 minutes ago, Eggman07 said:

Dumb question but how am I supposed to make a custom map using your resources?(This is my first time using custom resources).

So add Doom2.wad as your first resource using the "add resource" button. Then add his wad by hitting the same button and picking oneman.wad.

[MEMEAIDS]

I just made a small, relatively circular room to test the actual resources and whatnot out, for Chocolate DOOM, so I can check for vanilla authenticity, but I keep getting this error. How can I fix this?

Edited January 5, 2022 by MEMEAIDS

[Doomkid]

25 minutes ago, MEMEAIDS said:

I just made a small, relatively circular room to test the actual resources and whatnot out, for Chocolate DOOM, so I can check for vanilla authenticity, but I keep getting this error. How can I fix this?

It looks like Chocolate Doom is loading the WAD only, but not the DEH. If possible, when testing from Doom Builder, try to insert the paramater -dehlump, that should cause it to read the correct sprites. (If running Chocolate Doom outside of Doom Builder, the command would be -file unnamed.wad OneMan.wad -deh OneMan.deh)

[MEMEAIDS]

3 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

It looks like Chocolate Doom is loading the WAD only, but not the DEH. If possible, when testing from Doom Builder, try to insert the paramater -dehlump, that should cause it to read the correct sprites. (If running Chocolate Doom outside of Doom Builder, the command would be -file unnamed.wad OneMan.wad -deh OneMan.deh)

That worked! Thank you.
Now, my work can continue, in full.

[OverflowingMocha]

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

For the time being, just stick to IWAD skies. I'll get 3 new skies added into the resource pack soon to avoid confusion though!

 

Basically, make your map expecting the sky to look like: The Doom 1 E1 sky, The Doom 2 E1 sky, or for later maps, a general "Helly" sky.

Alright then, I'll keep that in mind. :P
Might post a screenie or two later if I could do that.

[TubularB1Us]

One small issue, some textures have this strange pink stripe on the bottom of them and they only appear when testing, not quite sure what's causing this but it's a tad jarring.

 

[Blexor]

I'm a beginning mapper but I'd love to contribute to this project. I may not fully understand what goes into making a map look specifically '90s', but I gather that so long as it doesn't crash older versions of Doom, it should be fine.

 

I do have one question, though: You mentioned that a custom MIDI had to be included with each submission. Maybe this is a silly thing to ask but do they have to be something we created ourselves? I don't know the first thing about MIDI creation is all, so I'd pose a problem if that was required.

[TubularB1Us]

3 minutes ago, Blexor said:

I'm a beginning mapper but I'd love to contribute to this project. I may not fully understand what goes into making a map look specifically '90s', but I gather that so long as it doesn't crash older versions of Doom, it should be fine.

 

I do have one question, though: You mentioned that a custom MIDI had to be included with each submission. Maybe this is a silly thing to ask but do they have to be something we created ourselves? I don't know the first thing about MIDI creation is all, so I'd pose a problem if that was required.

In my experience, a "custom" MIDI usually means something that isn't the stock tracks used in any of the four original IWADs, but I could be wrong though.

Edited January 6, 2022 by TubularB1Us

[Dusty_Rhodes]

8 minutes ago, TubularB1Us said:

One small issue, some textures have this strange pink stripe on the bottom of them and they only appear when testing, not quite sure what's causing this but it's a tad jarring.

 

So this is a bug called tutti frutti, it's easy to fix. 

 

Check the wiki page for the bug, it will explain it better than I. Hope this helps. :D

[Doomkid]

42 minutes ago, TubularB1Us said:

One small issue, some textures have this strange pink stripe on the bottom of them and they only appear when testing, not quite sure what's causing this but it's a tad jarring.

 

As Dusty mentioned, this is tutti frutti. You can avoid it on stairs by making sure their texture offsets are set to 0 - but instead, I’ll do some internal work in the resource pack and make sure short textures like steps/crates don’t do this instead.

 

Long story short - don’t worry too much about it in those instances.

 

41 minutes ago, Blexor said:

I'm a beginning mapper but I'd love to contribute to this project. I may not fully understand what goes into making a map look specifically '90s', but I gather that so long as it doesn't crash older versions of Doom, it should be fine.

Don’t worry, any midi from the net will do just fine.

[Ludi]

I'm not much of a vanilla mapper (Boom is my stomping grounds), but I love seeing these vanilla compilations! They understand that doom isn't just fancy voodoo scripts and crazy-detailed maps, but also blasting ass with a wacky engine from '93. I won't be participating, but I await the results with bated breath. Good luck, everyone! :^)

Edited January 6, 2022 by Sr_Ludicolo

[Blexor]

3 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Don’t worry, any midi from the net will do just fine.

 

Alright, cool. I figured that was probably the case. Just wanted to be sure, though.

[Sectorslayer]

Hey @Doomkid, so we just submit everything to this thread? Including updates and playthroughs? 

I think I will try this vanilla thing! But it will probably take me some time since I have to take a mapping break and work and stuff and you name it…

 

How are we going to handle updates? Put version numbers on the submitted WADs?

[evil_scientist]

I get a bunch (43) warnings when I load up the resources in UDM. The sprites are not showing up in the editor. But they work and display fine when testing (both in LZ and Crispy). Did I miss something? :)

 

Screens:
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

PS: the texture pack looks awesome.

Edited January 6, 2022 by evil_scientist