JAMAL JONES TRILOGY - Old development thread - [Doomkid's 20 Years Mapping Contest]

[evil_scientist]

Some WIP images:

 

You start out in a dingy back alley, then make your way to the rooftops, there are chainlink fences everywhere...

[Pixel Fiend]

Vanilla mapping

 

I found something like this

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Vanilla_Doom_engine_mapping_reference

 

I am looking for more information of what is allowed in a vanilla map

For example which vanilla actions I'm allowed to add in Ultimate Doom Builder

 

Is there a linedef limit?

Edited January 8, 2022 by game

[evil_scientist]

5 minutes ago, game said:

 

For example which vanilla actions I'm allowed to add in Ultimate Doom Builder

  

 

As far as I understand, when you create the map file, you have to pick "Doom: Doom 2 (Doom Format)" as the mapping format. This will automatically give you the actions that are available in vanilla.

[Synuś Vader]

5 hours ago, Synuś Vader said:

THANK GOD, FINALLY 

AFTER 2 DAYS, I HAVE MADE MY MAP 

 

Okay, so....

i think my map is too short (as you can see on the screenshot)

what do you guys think?

( it has 119 monsters on UV, 6 secrets and 38 items)

[Jastrzab Trzeci]

Since Im new to doom mapping, I cant promise I'll finish this one. I'll try my best, tho.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Jastrzab Trzeci

[Astronomical]

3 hours ago, Astronomical said:

I have the same issue, other ports load it with no issue, Dos box has no trouble, but chocolate doom and Chocorender limits freakout and crash for no reason.  Ive messed with the Start and end markers in all combinations, loaded the maps both separate and together with the resource pack, both -deh and -dehlump.  And it just panics and crashes without an error message. 

I would Like to now clairify that in order to fix the issue, you need to load the map on it's own without custom textures and enemies, replace the unused with anything. Load the map, move the map into the resource wad, change the textures back and Chocolate doom will stop freaking out.  If you are wondering this is not a joke and was the only way I could fix the issue.

[Kyka]

Congrats @Doomkid

 

Methinks you are gonna get enough maps for two regular Doom2 megawads.

 

It occurs to me that, other than TNT Revilution, TNT:Forever, (and whatever of my mapping/texture work remains in TNT:Deviultion), I haven't made a map in like 10 years. Heh. A long time at any rate. I promised myself that I wouldn't make a map for anything until TNT:Forever was done, but I might try make an exception for this mapset. Vanilla? Wonderful. Associations to Rowdy Rudy? Coolness. Interesting monsters and weapons? Neat.

 

No promises tho, but the fact that I even considered the idea of mapping for this is pretty out of the box.

 

Thanks Doomkid. This is gonna be a great little project, with or without my involvement. :)

Edited January 9, 2022 by Kyka
minor grammar edit. coz, like, rampant-but-also-inconsistently-applied perfectionism.

[DSC]

On 1/5/2022 at 3:35 AM, Doomkid said:

I decided that all of the best submissions are going to be compiled into an episode called JAMAL JONES: One Man Jury!

Sorry if it sounds like I'm begging down on my knees, but if there's a high enough amount of good submissions, could you consider making it a full 32-map experience? :D

[phoo]

Continuing my battle against visplane overflows :)

Edit: also just started battling drawseg overflows :) had to cut down on some of the details here and there...

Edited January 9, 2022 by phoo

[Pixel Fiend]

@phoo Squeezing as much detail in the view as you can muster, huh? :) I'm a bit intimidated by those limitations, but fortunately my map will be indoors so maybe that will help. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by game

[phoo]

Just now, game said:

@phoo Squeezing as much detail as you can muster in the view, huh? :) I'm a bit intimidated by those limitations, but fortunately my map will be indoors so maybe that will help. 

Will be making the rest in doors and will probably have the player pass through here a few times, I learnt my lesson, had to remove some other details. Definitely can't make too much open stuff lol

[Jacek Nowak (jacnowak)]

I made a simple test room to test the resource WAD (just one rectangular sector with player and a few monsters in it) and I have a strange problem - the enemies aren't attacking. They move towards me but they don't shoot any projectiles and don't do any melee attacks. I've never used DEHACKED so I'm probably doing something wrong but I tried with Crispy, prBoom+ and GZDoom - all give the same result.

I tried "crispy-doom -file 1ManV2.wad mymap.wad -deh 1ManV2.deh", also tried without specifying "-deh".

What am I missing or doing wrong?

[roadworx]

oh, shit, an excuse to actually get off my ass and make something :o

[Jacek Nowak (jacnowak)]

Never mind - solved it. Looks that ZenNode wasn't happy with a map consisting only of one sector. I added another sector and enemies started behaving properly :)

[Dusty_Rhodes]

Just now, jacnowak said:

Never mind - solved it. Looks that ZenNode wasn't happy with a map consisting only of one sector. I added another sector and enemies started behaving properly :)

Nodebuilders can be temperamental sometimes haha. I use BSP32, as it never has any issues with the weirdness I add with dummy sectors and self ref sectors.

[Doomkid]

I absolutely adoring the screenshots so far. I hope any of you who are on the fence decide to give it a crack!

 

9 hours ago, game said:

Vanilla mapping

[...]

Is there a linedef limit?

Similar to the visplane limit, you can only have so many on screen/in view at any given time. The linedef count for the map itself is much higher, but it will definitely limit finer detail especially in open areas. I don’t think it causes a crash though, it only causes a HOM effect.

 

8 hours ago, Synuś Vader said:

Okay, so... i think my map is too short

While I’m not going to “review” any maps before the contest (other than to make sure they work on a technical level), feel free to post your map link here so others can weigh in, if they wish! I encourage different participants or onlookers to help one another out with the more subjective side of mapping.

 

5 hours ago, DSC said:

Sorry if it sounds like I'm begging down on my knees, but if there's a high enough amount of good submissions, could you consider making it a full 32-map experience? :D

Ok, but only because you asked nicely DSC :)

 

(Haha this was the plan all along, depending on the number of submissions of course)

 

5 hours ago, game said:

I'm a bit intimidated by those limitations, but fortunately my map will be indoors so maybe that will help. 

Definitely! I love having wide open “central hub areas” in most of my maps, but it sure does push the visplane and linedef limits to their edge almost every time.

 

4 hours ago, jacnowak said:

Never mind - solved it. Looks that ZenNode wasn't happy with a map consisting only of one sector. I added another sector and enemies started behaving properly :)

Whew, I was worried there was some oddball bug with the pack for a minute there. Nodes are so finnicky..

[phoo]

14 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Definitely! I love having wide open “central hub areas” in most of my maps, but it sure does push the visplane and linedef limits to their edge almost every time.

I've been mostly testing using prboom+ UM as I build the map. I sorted out the visplane issue and that's within the limit now. I'm now seeing some HOM near the edges and from areas where I can see a lot of detail. I'm thinking I'm going over a segs limit, so I'll need to clean up the hub area further lol :)

[Doomkid]

Don’t be too harsh on yourself with the Drawseg limit! As long as it doesn’t outright crash, or become an unplayable mash of HOMs everywhere, it’s fine. (Vanilla limits really to force minimalism enough as it is!)

[Astronomical]

22 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Definitely! I love having wide open “central hub areas” in most of my maps, but it sure does push the visplane and linedef limits to their edge almost every time.

With the abundance of tools available I’m surprised anything vanilla came out after the source code released, but before these tools did. 

[phoo]

57 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Don’t be too harsh on yourself with the Drawseg limit! As long as it doesn’t outright crash, or become an unplayable mash of HOMs everywhere, it’s fine. (Vanilla limits really to force minimalism enough as it is!)

Got it, I managed to eliminate the big smears of HOMs in the distance that I was seeing from certain perspectives. Mostly just removed a few details here and there and removed a few curves, etc. Not really sure how much free resources I have now or how close I am to the limit, but I'll see about adding some more back later... Sometimes I forget how much segs are used. The 2 little decorative roadblocks alone took 48 of the segs

Edited January 9, 2022 by phoo

[madbringer]

52 minutes ago, Astronomical said:

With the abundance of tools available I’m surprised anything vanilla came out after the source code released, but before these tools did. 

 

If Doomkid wanted REAL oldschool type maps, he could have made the stipulation that everyone can only use a HEX editor. LOL

Edited January 9, 2022 by madbringer

[Blexor]

On 1/7/2022 at 2:39 AM, Synuś Vader said:

Dude, that's so cool! Nice idea for a map! 

 

Thank you! Thinking of also having parts of the canyon be flooded with glowing slime like shown below, not just as a hazard but also as another light source. Wouldn't want the map to be too dark.

 

I haven't tested it yet, but in all likelihood I've put too much detail into the map already, so I'll have to cut down on a fair bit to make it truly vanilla compatible. Oh well. That's the name of the game, I suppose.

 

As a side note, I really love the pistol and chaingun in this pack. Seriously considering going heavy on the bullet pickups.

[madbringer]

By the way, if anyone wants a tester before they publish, shoot me a DM. My map is about halfway done, I can spare some time to test your thing.

[Syn]

This will be one of the few peeks I give. This map will take place in an abandoned tech-temple in a toxic sea, with as much atmosphere as I can have (helped by the wonderful MIDI of Maridia from Super Metroid I found online!).

[Blue Phoenix]

[mgr_inz_rafal]

And I'm with my favorite theme - "slightly" infested tech base. Classic :)

Also, I'm testing with Choco Doom to make sure that the level of detail is just ok for the original Doom resolution, cuz that's the way I like to play Doom.

 

[Dusty_Rhodes]

@Doomkid Can we add RAILING from Final Doom to the resource wad? I figure we have more misc graphics like WFALL 1 - 4, so why not add these? They're very useful.

 

 

This is it.

[mgr_inz_rafal]

Speaking about resources, I really miss SLADRIP1 :-)

[NeilForshaw]

45 minutes ago, mgr_inz_rafal said:

Speaking about resources, I really miss SLADRIP1 :-)

 

And I really miss the butchered baron texture. Most criminal omission from Doom2 D: XD

[Doomkid]

1 hour ago, mgr_inz_rafal said:

Speaking about resources, I really miss SLADRIP1 :-)

This is the "Nukage drain" texture right? It's in the resource pack! I love that one.

 

1 hour ago, NeilJohnRips said:

And I really miss the butchered baron texture. Most criminal omission from Doom2 D: XD

Hmm.. this will require me to do a little texture surgery, which I'm no stranger to (since there was no HD version of this texture in the pack). I'll see if I can get that one added in the next few days here.

 

2 hours ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

@Doomkid Can we add RAILING from Final Doom to the resource wad? I figure we have more misc graphics like WFALL 1 - 4, so why not add these? They're very useful.

Agreed fully. Will update the pack soon to have both this and (most likely) the Baron texture added in!