JAMAL JONES TRILOGY - Old development thread - [Doomkid's 20 Years Mapping Contest]

[Vladguy]

Oh speaking of soft-locks, I don't think anybody talked about one minor lock during Rycuz's To The Site, where you can get stuck between two boxes in the room with the green armor and a window in which you can get out of the megaarmor secret outside.

 

I call it minor because you yourself can get locked if you choose to fall in the box hole.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Vladguy

[Doomkid]

Good eye, that would have probably never been caught! Fixed right away, since it was so trivial.

[Peccatum Mihzamiz]

48 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Oh damn, the main issue I found in your map is still there actually Peccatum, still very easily soft-lockable in SP:

 

I still plan to fix the bridges to the best of my ability, but since this is a bit of a larger issue, I thought maybe you'd want to have a crack at it. If not I'll happily try and fix it, just let me know!

Ah yeah, didn't count on the monsters blocking the hallway stuff, sorry. Will fix that asap and send you the updated file. Thanks for clarifying again! I'll try to do the birdges once more but am not sure I'll be succesful. Tried it before and couldn't get it fixed.

[Peccatum Mihzamiz]

Version 5 of my map. I tried my best with the bridges but it eludes me. I rebuilt the two defective ones and still couldn't get them to work. Could I ask you to have a go at it?

[TVdinnermasterchef]

17 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Thank you so much for the update @Peccatum MihzamizMihzamiz.

 

 @TVdinnermasterchef, even though I didn't respond, I did get your email ages ago with the updated MIDI w/ drum track. It sounds awesome, man. Let me know when you've taken a look at that room where NiGHTS and I got stuck...

 

Thanks mate, glad to know it sounds good, I'll write the drum track to all my future songs now I know how it's done. Thanks for the help figuring it out.

 

I'll boot the file up tonight and take a look, hopefully it will be a relatively simple fix.

[TVdinnermasterchef]

6 hours ago, TVdinnermasterchef said:

I'll boot the file up tonight and take a look, hopefully it will be a relatively simple fix.

 

OK, so I realised I was using GZDoom 4.7.1, so I updated to 4.9 (which NiGHTS108 was using) to try to emulate the lock in.

 

Went into UDB, both door linedefs reference the correct sector of the door. I noticed that the red key door, which does not fail, was missing a tag on 1 side, so I deleted the tags on the offending door. Door still opened from both sides, no lock in.

 

I went back in and replaced the tags on the door linedefs. Door opened from both sides, no lock in.

 

There could be a deeper issue here, and I'm not sure where to go with my limited experience and understanding. Would you mind having a look Doomkid, and let me know what the problem was if you find anything?

Edited November 20, 2022 by TVdinnermasterchef
High degree of anality + virtually unnoticeable spelling mistake

[NiGHTS108]

One last bug I found, I don't think MAP31 has a secret exit

[Doomkid]

@RastaManGames Well after trying it a few different times, I think the (sadly cut down) version of your map is totally crash free. Thanks a lot for making the changes!

 

@NiGHTS108 Thanks for continuing to look for bugs! I actually did add a secret exit (and fix some poor gameplay moments) since the last update. Once every slot has its map, I’ll post a new build which this time around will have a fair handful of bug fixes and such.

[Doomkid]

You got it, TVdinner. I’ll give a thorough look in just a bit here - I have a feeling it’s some tiny, practically unnoticeable issue that maybe only shows up with strict Doom compatibility.

[Mark Bloom]

Hello! One more update. One room left that requires detailing and the rest is balancing monsters/pickups for for different difficulty levels and multiplayer stuff. No screenshots this time. I still didn't test the map with Chocolate Doom, but besides a few places visplane explorer shows below 100 so I guess it would be fine.

 

I'm planning to finish the map in a couple of days. Stay tuned ;)

[TVdinnermasterchef]

Thanks mate. It could be, as I haven't set the compatibility to strict on my new version of GZDoom yet.

[Mark Bloom]

Phew! I don't really know why I'm getting mind block doing smaller maps, but I think I've managed to pull it off in the end. Since I'm the only one who tested the map, I'll gladly accept any feedback.

 

E3M11 - Mudslide

Music - "Hatshepsut" by James Paddock (also used in Haste Map14)

Multiplayer - 2 additional monsters (I'm tired)

Deathmatch - Added player respawns near weapon pick-ups

Monsters - 217/263/307

Items - 26

Secrets - 2

PAR - 10:00

Bugs: Visplane overflow in unreachable areas (without cheats that is). Small HOM because of drawseg limit in final fight.

Tested with Chocolate Doom, PrBoom+, GZDoom.

 

Download Link

 

Screenshots:

Spoiler

 

 

[Doomkid]

Oh Hell yes! That map looks awesome. I’ll let you know if I find any bugs in the next few days, and if not, the final “pre-RC” build will go live, with a completely filled out map roster, functional intermission name tags for each map, and a .DEH containing unique story for each episode. It’s gonna be fun as hell!

[NiGHTS108]

V6 hype!!!

 

Really interested in seeing your story for E3 MAP20 to 21, not gonna spoil it for anyone who hasn’t played the map but I’d recommend it ;)

[Arsinikk]

Here's my review of the new map :)

 

MAP11: Mudslide - @Mark Bloom

Spoiler

It's funny that you mentioned that this was a "smaller map", because imo this is more of a normal sized map to me. It took me about 20 minutes to get through it on UV with 100% K/I/S.

This is a really solid map, and I enjoyed my way through it. It has little traps spread throughout the level that are fun, if not expected (i.e. grab rocket launcher = spawn enemies). I liked how the map seemed to wrap around itself, and you were able to visit different height levels of the same areas. I never really felt lost throughout my playthrough, however I'll confess that I didn't really understand what the small pillar switches did. Tbh that would be my first minor point, is that I thought the small switches were a bit hard to press, but honestly it's not really that big of a deal.

 

As for secrets, I found the soulsphere one by myself. It can be a little annoying if you fall into the liquid around there, and have to find the correct path back to where you can grab the soulsphere. I sadly didn't find the backpack secret without cheating, but once I found it, I thought it was clear enough with the different texture. I think it was because it was up above the player, that I didn't notice the different texture while playing. Clever secret placement. Also not a secret but I love the coke machine that gives berserk in the liquid :P

 

There were 2 fights in the map that were my highlights. The first being my favourite fight, the yellow key fight with archviles, fire cacos, and green imps. This is what I would consider the most difficult fight, but with the rocket launcher and plasma, this fight is totally do-able. The second being the blue key light platforming arena. I love the way this area looks, and the arena is quite fun to run around. I didn't find this fight to be particularly hard, but it was fun.

 

If I had any real criticisms about the map, it would be that the yellow key fight is absolutely brutal without the rocket launcher (like I initially did). I sorta think that this can be a little unfair if the player isn't saving, since if the player drops down into that area without the rocket launcher, it can sorta act as a softlock. It may be possible to survive the fight without a rocket launcher, but it'd be really brutal. I don't exactly know how I'd fix this, but when I dropped down, I didn't expect to not be able to get back up. I have 2 other minor things to mention: 1) I found it a little mean if you fall in the centre damaging floor area of the blue key arena, you are kinda stuck for a long time waiting for the lift to come down. It's a bit weird to me, since on the outside of the arena, you just used teleports that avoid the waiting in damaging floor part. 2) there's a blocking hanging corpse in the mancubi / revenant monster closet next to the rocket launcher. I don't see any reason not to just use the non-blocking version of the corpse instead, so the player doesn't get stuck on it while fighting.

 

[Mark Bloom]

@Arsinikk Thanks for the review. Glad you liked it!

 

Some thoughts:

Spoiler

Well, it WAS a small map, but it felt too claustrophobic for my taste, so it kinda expanded on itself over time. Also PAR being 10 minutes is unfair from me (I don't know what I was thinking) since I did the run on the previous version without 1 crucial change in these switch pillars so UV-speed being around 15 minutes is more realistic.

 

5 switch pillars block the way to the yellow key, I tried to make it more obvious by placing one literally near the pathway but I think I need to retexture the bars. As for the yellow key fight - I tried to make the player go through RL area and grab it anyway by placing 1 of 5 switches nearby (originally there were 4). But yes - it is still missible so I'll run a small experiment - I'll make a nook in yellow key area where a player can somewhat hide and have a higher chance to survive the fight without RL. Or not if it'll make it too easy. Then I'll make yellow key to come down faster.

 

As for the blue key area - originally there were flying enemies and teles inside the inner circles and I didn't like that, but since I there are none in the end - I'll re-add teles.

 

As for the hanging corpse - that's an oversight... Whoops.

 

New version with minor fixes coming up...

 

Edit: New version download link

@Doomkid Use this one

Changes:

- Hanging legs in one of monster closets are no longer blocking movement

- Retextured blocking beams in yellow key walkway to resemble switch pillars that open them

- Added lighting effect to this waklway to drag player's attention

- Walls near chaingun pick-up now lower by grabbing said chaingun and not by pressing switch (now it only lowers corresponding beam)

- Lifts in blue key area replaced with teleporters

- Rebalanced yellow key fight - Removed 1 Hell Knight and their nook is wider with 160 cells inside. Hiding there is not 100% safe but doable w/o RL.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Mark Bloom

[Vladguy]

Oh damn, it's happening!!!

To be honest I'm more hyped for the credits map? If that's actually happening?

[Doomkid]

Alrighty, here it is, the LAST pre-rc build!

 

^{(don't mind the filename lol)}

 

Download: https://doomshack.org/uploads/JJ_RC1.zip

 

 

What has been done:

 

• Every single map slot is filled with a working map!

 

• All 3 episodes now have nice-looking credit screens:

 

   

 

• All 3 episodes include full story texts and "bookend" credit maps in slot 21.

 

• All secret exits/maps seem to function as-intended.

 

 

What's left to do/misc notes:

 

• @Rykz's Map01 is ready other than this missing texture and some weirdness with bleeding on the bridge:

 

 

 

• @Sectorslayer's Map16 is ready other than the zero-byte REJECT (apparently causes issues with demos?..)

 

• @Peccatum Mihzamiz's Map19 can still be softlocked (though it's harder) and still has the bridge issues, which for the life of me I couldn't figure out. As for the softlock, I'd recommend a crate or something where the Caco is currently that the player has to press on to lower. I know it's awkward, but a player can still slip past the caco and get locked in the stairwell between stories, and I don't want there to be any chance of that happening to a speedrunner.

 

• @TVdinnermasterchef's secret map in E2 is limit-removing (just needs to be clearly noted on documentation when I publish it) but also may have a potential softlock, as caught by @NiGHTS108. I plan to investigate this further but any help from others would be greatly appreciated.

 

• @Elto Gaming's Map05 in E3 has a VPO in the first room, crashing vanilla and chocolate. Probably a pretty easy fix!

 

• I'd like to get a MAPINFO lump made in the next few days here to get a custom sky on @Yumheart's map and to show the map titles on the automap (the DeHackEd lump only has room to put author names, sadly)

 

• Fix minor story issue in E1 & E3's ending, and fix background for first story text in E3

 

• Need to implement @Arsinikk's excellent fix for the seam in the red cloudy sky.

 

• Still have ChippiHeppu listed as "Chippi Heppu" on the automap (d'oh)

 

• Replace all instances of STEP1 and STEP2 flat usage with GREP1 and GREP2 in all maps.

 

• 4 demos need to be recorded for each episode.

 

• Need to check that every single map has at least 4 co-op starts and 4 DM starts!

 

• Ideally I'd also like to get a proper credits map made for slot 21 at the end of E3 as a nice, satisfying conclusion! I'd use author's avatars as 128x128 textures, or they could optionally submit a custom image for this instead. I haven't made any progress on such a map though, so if someone else would like to do it, please do feel free to claim that. There wouldn't be any monsters or anything, and I was thinking in a city block theme, but any theme could work if done right.

 

 

...and I think that's about it. We're so damn close now!

[Vladguy]

YEAAAAAAAASSSSS IT'S HAPPENING!!!

Expect a custom image in like a few moments, I might have an idea.

 

...though I don't know if my image should be funny or serious..

 

Hopefully we get it done in time for the cacowards!

Edited December 8, 2022 by Vladguy

[Rymante]

Soon, the complete Jamal Jones experience will be upon us!

Looking forward to giving the final, bugfixed version a try, especially considering the new additions to Episode 3 I haven't even tried yet. ^_^

[Doomkid]

5 hours ago, Vladguy said:

YEAAAAAAAASSSSS IT'S HAPPENING!!!

Expect a custom image in like a few moments, I might have an idea.

 

...though I don't know if my image should be funny or serious..

 

Hopefully we get it done in time for the cacowards!

Well, I think we’ve missed the boat for this year - Cacowards are in about 2 days and we’re not quite at RC1 - but the wad will be on the table for next year’s!
 

2 hours ago, Rymante said:

Soon, the complete Jamal Jones experience will be upon us!

Looking forward to giving the final, bugfixed version a try, especially considering the new additions to Episode 3 I haven't even tried yet. ^_^

I think you’ll like em!

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

This dedication to making sure all issues are ironed out, and the project is as perfect as possible is amazing to me. I'm in a completely different headspace. It's like I'm sketching - make something, make sure it works, release, move onto something else. Can't even imagine keeping my attention on one project for this long. Probably experience, I'm a baby mapper.

[NiGHTS108]

This is so freakin' epic :D

 

Gonna make a credits map, I have an idea

Edited December 8, 2022 by NiGHTS108

[NiGHTS108]

Okay, here's my proof of concept

A bunch of monitors that look like this

(Obviously at least a few of these won't convert beautifully to Doom's palette but let's not worry about that)

[Vladguy]

Looks good! Though what about the people who want to be credited as a custom image? (like me)

..How about their image stands before a miniature recreation of a section of their map(s)?

Edited December 8, 2022 by Vladguy

[NiGHTS108]

Yeah you can submit custom images for the background and/or the foreground

And also yeah good idea to recreate a section of map

[finnks13]

10 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Alrighty, here it is, the LAST pre-rc build!

 

^{(don't mind the filename lol)}

 

Download: https://doomshack.org/uploads/JJ_RC1.zip

 

Think I should flag up that since my map has been moved to the Map12 slot, the secret exit that I added to the map after seeing that I was in the Map15 slot originally, now breaks the progression and boots you back to Map01. Here's a version of the map that is identical to the version in the wad, but with the small additional area leading to the secret exit removed (it wasn't part of my original submission anyway so I have no problem with getting rid of it): 1man_finnks_v4.zip

[NiGHTS108]

The version of my map in the wad is slightly out of date by the way, it's not a huge deal but I'm picky and don't want very small bugs in my map

 

The final version for sure...

[NiGHTS108]

I got exactly a quarter of the credits map done so far

For the custom image if you want one, just either drop it in the thread or privately message it to me, I'll see it either way and put it in

Tell me what you guys think I suppose, visuals outside custom textures are a big work in progress

 

E3M21 - You're Winner! - NiGHTS108.zip

Edited December 8, 2022 by NiGHTS108

[Doomkid]

I really like the approach you're taking, NiGHTS.

 

Vladguy gave me a custom texture that doesn't fit the feel of the current template, but I like the idea of some people's panels being pressable and revealing a room with a custom image, if indeed anyone else submits one. So you could do up a standard image for Vladguy, but his custom one will be an easter egg (mainly since it's too large, and resizing it to 128x128 looks super bad, lol).

 

4 hours ago, finnks13 said:

Think I should flag up that since my map has been moved to the Map12 slot, the secret exit that I added to the map after seeing that I was in the Map15 slot originally, now breaks the progression and boots you back to Map01. Here's a version of the map that is identical to the version in the wad, but with the small additional area leading to the secret exit removed (it wasn't part of my original submission anyway so I have no problem with getting rid of it): 1man_finnks_v4.zip

Completely forgot to account for this - thank you finnks13 for the adjusted version!