JAMAL JONES TRILOGY - Old development thread - [Doomkid's 20 Years Mapping Contest]

[NiGHTS108]

Update: Map is complete, sending it to playtesters

[NiGHTS108]

The deed is done

- E3M17: "Scorching Ivy" by NiGHTS108
- MIDI: Alien Vendetta MIDI Pack D_VALLEY - Chicago Typography by Cammy
- BUILD TIME: About a month on/off, had about 5 earlier attempts that didn't go anywhere, I guess about 8-12 hours spent in UDB for this as a whole
- PAR: 2:30
- Difficulties, multiple player starts and deathmatch starts integrated
- SHOULD be vanilla compatible? Tell me if it's not or if there's anything about the map you're not into, etc
- Playtested by @FrancisT218 and @tonytheparrot
- Half the credit goes to @tonytheparrot who didn't touch the map at all but got me off my ass to actually make it 3 years faster
- Hope you enjoy!

 

E3M17 - Scorching Ivy - NiGHTS108.zip

Edited November 8, 2022 by NiGHTS108

[Doomkid]

19 hours ago, Mark Bloom said:

The layout is almost done, then detailing and placing stuff. @Doomkid Is "KeenDie" state is unused? I cannot use tag 666 to open doors? Not that it'll stop me, I'll just have to re-arrange some switches, but with Keens it'll be much easier

Sorry, Keen/that state is indeed already in use, hopefully that won't cause too much trouble.

 

1 hour ago, NiGHTS108 said:

The deed is done

Awesome! I'll play it and let you know if there are any issues, but it looks perfect at a glance.

[Mark Bloom]

4 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Sorry, Keen/that state is indeed already in use, hopefully that won't cause too much trouble.

That's actually a good thing. I can keep it simple and finish the map faster

[sincity2100]

Looks really Cool, Makes me wish I was in the Project..

[NiGHTS108]

16 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Awesome! I'll play it and let you know if there are any issues, but it looks perfect at a glance.

 

By the way, when you put the map in the wad, could you get a fresh download from my post? I've fixed a few minor visual errors over the last few days

[ChippiHeppu]

On 7/31/2022 at 8:05 AM, Doomkid said:

Chippi Heppu

Correction: ChippiHeppu is one word :)

[Vladguy]

Say, Rowdy Rudy 2 released November 7th/8th, it would be cool if Jamal Jones released on the 2 year anniversary of RR2.

Dunno if that'll actually happen though... Would require serious crunching.

[Doomkid]

Oh god, there’s just too many known bugs for that timeline.. would have worked out perfectly, damn.

 

@RastaManGames I really like your map, but somehow only just realised it crashes vanilla with visplane overflows. Would you mind scaling it back til that no longer happens? (The Visplane Explorer plug-in for Doom Builder makes this a lot easier)

[NiGHTS108]

So I beat E1 on version 5 and I feel like I should report a few bugs you may or may not be aware of (Played on GZDoom 4.8.2)

 

MAP15: No secret exit (you're probably aware) (edit: and for that matter, neither does E2M31)

MAP19: In the first screenshot, this ledge is untextured and I also don't believe you can leave this room/progress without idclip? Maybe I'm dumb though idk, also some of these 3D bridges don't feel so good

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by NiGHTS108

[RastaManGames]

6 hours ago, Doomkid said:

@RastaManGames I really like your map, but somehow only just realised it crashes vanilla with visplane overflows. Would you mind scaling it back til that no longer happens? (The Visplane Explorer plug-in for Doom Builder makes this a lot easier)

Oh... I was in aware of that and that was the reason why fast door was in that corridor...

I am gonna try to see, what can I do.

And yes, I know about visplane viewer.

 

Hm... Which exact place is problematic?

Spoiler

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by RastaManGames

[Doomkid]

I’ll get a screenshot for you, RMG. I think the area that causes trouble is the white crosswalk lines, but once I get to my PC I’ll investigate that further!

[Doomkid]

Ahh NiGHTS, I’m glad you posted about these, thank you. I realised probably over 2 months ago that you can break @Peccatum Mihzamiz’s map if you run right for the downstairs hallway as soon as the map starts as well, causing the player to get locked in the stairwell. Sorry I didn’t mention this ages ago, Peccatum - if you want to fix them yourself feel free but if you’re busy (or just don’t want to) I’ll also be happy to do so.
 

I did have the bridges mess up on me a fair bit as well, but if we can at least get this to the “no crashes and no softlocks” line, I’ll be perfectly content.

[Arsinikk]

@RastaManGames I've recorded a video (it's private/unlisted) of your map running in Chocorenderlimits. Also the music playback in this port is screwy, just ignore it lol. The visplane viewer in Doom Builder is useful, but not always accurate. Chocorenderlimits is a version of Chocolate Doom that shows detailed stats such as visplanes in a certain view, and the how many drawsegs are in a certain frame. Vanilla Doom can only show a certain amount of lines in a certain frame before HOM the rest. In the video you can see the purple flashes are lines that will HOM in Vanilla Doom (The HOMs in the sky are probably fine btw, they won't look like that in-game). Depending on how Vanilla this project, you may wanna address that. However, I will note that drawsegs overflow won't crash the game like visplane overflow will.

 

The game does in fact crash near the beginning looking towards the blue key door. While it doesn't seem to reach 128 visplanes exactly, it does consistently crash when playing in Vanilla Doom at around 126-8 visplanes. The video was cut off cuz of an issue with the resource wad (not your fault).

 

Also my gameplay is like super garbage here cuz chocorenderlimits' input isn't that responsive on my computer I guess. It is based on a pretty old version of Chocolate Doom.

 

 

@Doomkid I finally figured out why Chocolate Doom was crashing. I ran into this issue with my map, but I've figured out the problem this time. The game will crash whenever the flat STEP2 is in the frame. This is because you have a patch named STEP2 in the resource WAD. Well to be technical, Doom2.exe has a STEP2 flat, and your resource wad has a STEP2 patch. Obviously you don't wanna have both lumps having the same name. I'm sure this would also apply to STEP1.

 

Also just a minor thing, but I'd ask what your plans were with the sky. My map uses a voidscape section, and it looks really ugly with a seam in the sky. I did create a seamless version of the sky, and was wondering if you wanted to incorporate it or not.

 

See what I mean:

Spoiler

With seam:

 

No seam:

 

Sky edit:

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Arsinikk

[Arsinikk]

Here's my review / thoughts on the new map (UV)! I think I missed some maps, so I'll try to review them a bit later.

 

MAP17: Scorching Ivy - @NiGHTS108

Spoiler

This is the first review that I did a video (unlisted) for:

 

I actually ended up playing it twice, which must mean I quite enjoyed it. The second run started out as a no-death attempt, but then I was just trying different strategies and such.

 

You can watch the video for my main thoughts. However here are some additional thoughts after also looking at the map editor:

 

Issues:

• The archviles behind the revenants don't actually resurrect them because of how the sector is constructed. Doom engine doesn't really allow the archviles to reach the corpses because of the slanted sectors and the square monster hitboxes.
• A spechits overflow was triggered (a monster/player crossed over more than 7 lines at once), which is bad for demo recording. It's basically because of how you've constructed the out-of-bounds monster closets with a bunch of teleport lines. That technique is much more Boom friendly, and less Vanilla friendly.

Suggestions:

• I don't understand the nook with the Archvile behind the tagged 14 lift. Why not just put the Archvile on the lift itself? If you're worried about sound propagation, you can just block sound on the sides of the tagged 14 lift. Or actually to be honest, you could just make the Archvile ambush and it'll only wake up when the lift is lowered and it sees the player.
• I like the vines in front of the Marble face textures, however in some parts of the map the geometry is really easy to get stuck on. The prime example is the area with the mastermind and arachnotrons. An easy fix would just to set the vine linedefs to impassable.
• For the switch that lowers sector 21, there's no reason to use "S1 floor lower to highest" instead of "S1 floor lower to lowest (change texture)". Both actions lower at the same speed, but the one action changes the floor texture as well.
• Imo, there's no reason for the map not to allow a way back to the earlier part of the level. You can easily use a W1 behind the final lowering wall to open the tagged 27 wall that locks the player in.
• It's not that clear that entering the arena behind the 3 key doors would be a lock-in. If it was a drop down, it'd make a bit more sense. It sorta makes sense that the forever resurrecting monsters would be killed further on, however it's not clear that you'd have to deal with the Cyberdemon yourself. The player is sorta being told to run past those monsters, and since you don't allow for backtracking it may be a bit frustrating for some players.

Overall, besides all the stuff I wrote, it's a really fun map. The only fight that I would consider a bit tricky is the final fight, mostly cuz that arena is perfect for revenant tracking missiles.

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Arsinikk

[NiGHTS108]

9 hours ago, Arsinikk said:

Here's my review / thoughts on the new map (UV)! I think I missed some maps, so I'll try to review them a bit later.

Thank you so much for playtesting! Glad you enjoyed it, I’ll be sure to provide an update shortly fixing the bugs and taking your suggestions into account!

[NiGHTS108]

New update based on what Arsinikk said ‼‼‼‼‼‼‼‼

 

The final version for sure....

Edited November 19, 2022 by NiGHTS108
So it's come to this, Nights updates his map very very slightly, again (AND AGAIN) (19/11/2022)

[Peccatum Mihzamiz]

Hi there @Doomkid! I've been working on fixes for my map, and other little things that were suggested to me. I think the only stuff I still couldn't get fixed was the bridges. I'll shoot you an updated version of my map in the next few days and would indeed be greatful if you could fix the bridges for me.

[Doomkid]

@Arsinikk Thank you so much for the detailed breakdown about RMG's map, that is extremely helpful! It's great that you took the time to do that. I also messed up even in my 3rd map for this, the flats GREP1 and GREP2 were added specifically to get around that issue of two lumps sharing a name, and I didn't use them out of sheer forgetfulness (d'oh). Any maps that still use a flat of STEP1/2 can easily be replaced with GREP and it'll fix any weird crashes or glitches. That looping sky is also wonderful, I'd be happy to use that!

 

@NiGHTS108 Well done with these updates, I'll get a new build posted fairly soon with your map updated, as well as the more updated version of Vladguy's map. Once Mark Bloom gets his map posted I guess will be a perfect time to make that "last beta" before this gets into release candidate status!

[RastaManGames]

@Doomkid So... The problematic area is that one with crosswalks?

[Doomkid]

Yeah, I believe so at least. It's right in that starting area when looking toward the blue door. Also, make sure if you use the flats STEP1 or STEP2 anywhere that they're replaced with the GREP variants. Should only be a couple minutes of work at most (thankfully!)

[Mark Bloom]

Hi! A quick update. I had to redo 50% of the layout as it felt too cramped. Luckily the map itself is still relatively small so not much time wasted. I've started adding details and I got stuck with visplane overflow for one evening. I hope it is gone forever. I'll try to finish the map as soon as I can but I also don't want to fix it a dozen times after release. So my mapping sessions are very methodical. And f me for rotating starting room by 45 degrees.

 

Some screenshots so far (map still lacks monsters and most of decorations)

Spoiler

 

P.S.: This is not the whole map, about 1/3d of it, some sections are still square corridors with default textures that are not ready to be shown yet.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Mark Bloom

[RastaManGames]

Okay, in this version I've deleted around 14 sectors in the starting area near blue locked door.

The crosswalk now is more ugly, barrel in the store's back door have no fancy gradient light made of sectors and here also were removed a rug in the store itself and nice crater from explosion.
I wanna have some feedback about performance now...

 

V4 (G.Drive)

 

[NiGHTS108]

Issue with E2, I'm pretty sure you can't leave this room once the door closes behind you in MAP32

 

[Peccatum Mihzamiz]

Version 4 of 'Inner City Evil'. Fixed all the co-op softlocks (I hope), added a bit more health towards the end on UV, added some more co-op monsters and did a few more tiny changes. Added some decorations to the street.

 

@Doomkid I would like to take you up on your offer to double check and fix all of the bridges if needed. The ones that I've seen have issues are around the sectors tagged with number 43, 59, and possibly 107 and 108. Other bridges can be found at tags 41, 42, 44 and 109. They seem to always work but checking can't hurt.

 

Also: in the zip file I've included a texture called PMDOOR. It's a texture used in the three rooms that the co-op players spawn in. Could I ask you to include this texture in the wad? That will make things clear to co-op players, I think.

[TVdinnermasterchef]

On 11/17/2022 at 9:06 PM, NiGHTS108 said:

Issue with E2, I'm pretty sure you can't leave this room once the door closes behind you in MAP32

 

 

Hey Nights,

 

Thanks for playtesting the map. Yeah, this is a problem that Doomkid ran into on his playthtough. He seems to think it's an untagged door sector, as I play on GZDoom, so I didn't have the issue when I play tested it myself.

 

Out of interest, what port do you use?

Edited November 18, 2022 by TVdinnermasterchef

[NiGHTS108]

 

3 minutes ago, TVdinnermasterchef said:

Out of interest, what port do you use?

 

GZDoom 4.9

Edited November 18, 2022 by NiGHTS108

[TVdinnermasterchef]

13 hours ago, NiGHTS108 said:

 

 

GZDoom 4.9

 

Strange. I may have to faff around with my set up and see what was happening on my end.

 

Thanks again Night's, hope you enjoyed the map, despite having to no-clip through the door.

[Doomkid]

Thank you so much for the update @Peccatum Mihzamiz - I'm going to do some checks and make sure the bridges work fine for me, and see if I can't squash any issues if I find them!

 

Also @TVdinnermasterchef, even though I didn't respond, I did get your email ages ago with the updated MIDI w/ drum track. It sounds awesome, man. Let me know when you've taken a look at that room where NiGHTS and I got stuck, then once Mark Bloom has the first version of his map ready for public consumption, I can probably spend less than a week getting this thing to "0.9 release candidate" status. Wooooh!

[Doomkid]

Oh damn, the main issue I found in your map is still there actually Peccatum, still very easily soft-lockable in SP:

 

On 11/8/2022 at 1:21 PM, Doomkid said:

I realised probably over 2 months ago that you can break @Peccatum Mihzamiz’s map if you run right for the downstairs hallway as soon as the map starts as well, causing the player to get locked in the stairwell.

 

Here's a video just to clarify where/how it happens:

 

 

 

I still plan to fix the bridges to the best of my ability, but since this is a bit of a larger issue, I thought maybe you'd want to have a crack at it. If not I'll happily try and fix it, just let me know!

 

EDIT: Watch the video on YouTube's actual site, their offsite player seems to be broken right now.