Is it bad for the first level to be overly complex?

[MPS]

I've noticed that when i was working on a megawad, the first map lasts for about 7 minutes with 100% kills and secrets dealing with like 90 monsters, 10 Hell Knights and 20 Pinkies with just an shotgun, going for switches back and forth dealing with lifts, teleport and door-locked keys.

 

Which i don't know if it might be tedious for some players and might turn off dealing with the rest of the WAD, so i've did an very small map with 30 monsters and just one lift, one switch and a key.

 

I was wondering if simplistic the design, the better should be?

[Bauul]

It depends entirely on how you want the experience to feel. While a short Map 01 can help ease the player into the experience, if all the other maps are 30 minutes plus it would feel a bit out of place to have a super short first map.

 

For example, the first map of Elementalism (Earth 1) has a usual FDA time of about half an hour, and all the feedback has been very positive. But it's a whole mapset of long, exploration-heavy levels so fits with the theme.

 

I would pitch Map 01 as a shorter, easier representation of the overall mapset. But how short and how easy depends entirely on the overall megawad, and shouldn't be some specific length of time or number of monsters.

[MPS]

4 minutes ago, Bauul said:

It depends entirely on how you want the experience to feel. While a short Map 01 can help ease the player into the experience, if all the other maps are 30 minutes plus it would feel a bit out of place to have a super short first map.

 

For example, the first map of Elementalism (Earth 1) has a usual FDA time of about half an hour, and all the feedback has been very positive. But it's a whole mapset of long, exploration-heavy levels so fits with the theme.

 

I would pitch Map 01 as a shorter, easier representation of the overall mapset. But how short and how easy depends entirely on the overall megawad, and shouldn't be some specific length of time or number of monsters.

 

Good to know, my intention with the WAD is to progress with difficulty and complexity. So, i was wondering if an larger Map01 felt out of place.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

For me, MAP01 should be a little taste test for what's to come. I think it should be a small-scale representation of the rest of the wad. When you play map01 of btsx, for example, you know you'll get that but more. I like that, I'll play some more. I didn't really like that, I'll go see what else is in store today. 

[ImproversGaming]

For me the 7min map you describe sounds absolutely fine. My general feeling is that, in general, this is very hard to answer and you should probably stick to your preferences as a mapper rather than what you think others may want (as it really depends on the overall WAD experience you are aiming for - as @Bauul has said). If you are introducing any big changes in the WAD then I tend to like it being introduced gradually in Map01 (like a deeper storyline, new mechanics, a strong visual theme, etc.).

Also I like the idea of @HrnekBezucha that Map01 can be a nice way to "advertise" the overall WAD, i.e., set up what it is all about so the player has a feel for what is to come. I love the excitement of a great map01 - where I love it, have bought into it and am eager to see more!

[Budoka]

It's not bad, it's good. Chances are 99% of people who download a PWAD will have played at least one of the IWADs, so I'm always thankful when wadmakers don't waste the early map slots by pumping them with filler gameplay.

[ducon]

No.

[esselfortium]

Is it actually "overly complex," or just regular complex? :)

[Nine Inch Heels]

On 5/20/2022 at 6:13 AM, MPS said:

I've noticed that when i was working on a megawad, the first map lasts for about 7 minutes with 100% kills and secrets dealing with like 90 monsters, 10 Hell Knights and 20 Pinkies with just an shotgun, going for switches back and forth dealing with lifts, teleport and door-locked keys.

 

This doesn't say much about how complex your map actually is, and 90 monsters is not necessarily a whole lot either, because numbers depend on context. One thing I can tell you for sure is that I may not be the only person who's turned off by the thought of grinding through 10 nobles and a pack of pinks, let alone all 90 critters, with a mere shotgun. If you want to subject players to that, then you might be better off having some sort of "twist" in place that makes that shotgun grind at least a little bit interesting, so it doesn't get monotonous...

 

On 5/20/2022 at 6:13 AM, MPS said:

Which i don't know if it might be tedious for some players and might turn off dealing with the rest of the WAD, so i've did an very small map with 30 monsters and just one lift, one switch and a key.

Yes, tedium was the first thing that came to mind after reading what the premise was. If you want a third solution: Add an easy to find, and well-supplied rocket launcher to the map, possibly in a secret, to give players at least a somewhat satisfying alternative to the shotgun. You could still run your 90 monsters map, but it wouldn't take what feels like an entire afternoon and then some to actually play the map in its entirety and kill everything.

 

All that being said, the problem isn't "complexity". Shotgunning 90 things isn't complex. The problem is tedium, and how to best avoid it. While I can't say what's "best" in this case, because I don't know what's planned for the following maps, it's usually easiest to just add more firepower...

[Deadwing]

You want to cause a good first impression, so I don't see any problem with the first map being the longest of the initial batch.

[Thelokk]

I see no problem with it. Pretty sure the Doom players scene has reached the point where they hardly need to wade through 5-6 maps of zombiemen / shotgunners in the low digits before getting to the real meat. 

[Egg Boy]

1 hour ago, Thelokk said:

I see no problem with it. Pretty sure the Doom players scene has reached the point where they hardly need to wade through 5-6 maps of zombiemen / shotgunners in the low digits before getting to the real meat. 

Frankly, dealing with 20 pinkies and 10 hell knights with just a shotgun sounds a bit more boring than “wading” through hit scanners. I prefer when the first map gets on with it, but not when it grinds the wad to a stop before it even properly gets started.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Egg Boy

[Roofi]

As usual, the best answer is : "it depends". Building a long and exciting map isn't an easy task.

 

For exemple,

 

The first map from Counter Attack is very long and complex but the aesthetics, the layout or the secrets make the level feel like a journey.

 

In counterparts, I can mention the first map of Armadosia : The mad Corridor that has a lot of switch-hunt and backtrack which easily make it tiresome and needlessly long. (The others maps are built the same way.)

Edited June 18, 2022 by Roofi

[dac]

The answer is always "it depends", and both a lightning quick romp and a more grand adventure can do as a first map. Although I'll add some asterisks to that it depends: The first map should always try to make a good first impression, and shotgunning pinkies and nobles sounds a bit too tedious as others mentioned. And also, keep in mind that first impression sets the tone for the entire mapset, and you might not want to give a player the wrong idea about how things are going to go.

 

(Which shamefully is what happened to me with BTSX E2 : Shadow Port is a very good first map, in how it plays, how it looks, how it feels, yet I found it so meaty it scared me off the rest of the set for a while and had to be told no no no, the following maps are much more straightforward, tango's map at MAP02 is nothing like Tough Skin River!)