Secret areas and environment destruction

[Luzifer]

What's about secret areas and levels? Is there a possibility that they'll be in Doom 3?
In games like RED FACTION there's the possibility to damage the environment with weapons. What about Total destruction or environment damaging?

[AirRaid]

Secret areas, of course. Every game has little hidden parts. I dunno about designated "secrets" with a counter though.

I think we've already been told there won't be Red Faction style Destrutible environments.

[dsm]

It's an id game - every id game without exception has secret areas, plus, this a heavily focused on sp, so I think it's quite certain that we'll see hidden locations.

As for environment destruction, it's already known that it most certainly will NOT be on level with Red Faction (why would people want that anyway? It's boring and allows for cheapass ways to to exit the levels) - however, there will be certain areas that can be destroyed if required by a puzzle or a script.

The E3 demonstration (and I assume the Alpha has it as well), showed a pinky burst through a wall of pipes. When making levels for Doom 3, it'll be possible to program a wall to be able to behave in certain ways (allow creatures to burst through it, or allow the player to blast it to pieces, etc.)

[EVIL]

dsm said:

The E3 demonstration (and I assume the Alpha has it as well), showed a pinky burst through a wall of pipes. When making levels for Doom 3, it'll be possible to program a wall to be able to behave in certain ways (allow creatures to burst through it, or allow the player to blast it to pieces, etc.)

also in the legal movie there was an pinky leaning on a railing and bending it through its weight.. it would be cool if monsters could ram thierselves trough a loose door for example by just the psychics engine: it would rock seeing a pinky running towards a door ramming it and the door bends en flyes out of its henges..

or scripted moments where you run into a room when chased by a hellknight and press a button so that the door behiend you closes.. and just @ the last sec you see 2 hands under the door and ripping th metal door to pieces :) if there will be any schene like this i will piss my pants.. Guaranteed!

[AirRaid]

dsm said:The E3 demonstration (and I assume the Alpha has it as well), showed a pinky burst through a wall of pipes[/B]

Best. Scene. Ever.

[Alientank]

HAMMER-STROKE said:

also in the legal movie there was an pinky leaning on a railing and bending it through its weight.. it would be cool if monsters could ram thierselves trough a loose door for example by just the psychics engine: it would rock seeing a pinky running towards a door ramming it and the door bends en flyes out of its henges..

or scripted moments where you run into a room when chased by a hellknight and press a button so that the door behiend you closes.. and just @ the last sec you see 2 hands under the door and ripping th metal door to pieces :) if there will be any schene like this i will piss my pants.. Guaranteed!

If id finds a way to pull something like that off, that will totally seal it as the best game of 2003.

[Luzifer]

>As for environment destruction, it's already known that it most certainly will NOT be on level with Red Faction (why would people want that anyway? It's boring and allows for cheapass ways to to exit the levels) - however, there will be certain areas that can be destroyed if required by a puzzle or a script.

IMHO environment destruction adds more realism to a game. In some shooters you can hurt a window with a rocket launcher and the glass remains intact. I hate this. For games like Doom it's important increasing realism for more credible action and why not, for a more exciting gameplay.

[Alientank]

Luzifer said:

>As for environment destruction, it's already known that it most certainly will NOT be on level with Red Faction (why would people want that anyway? It's boring and allows for cheapass ways to to exit the levels) - however, there will be certain areas that can be destroyed if required by a puzzle or a script.

IMHO environment destruction adds more realism to a game. In some shooters you can hurt a window with a rocket launcher and the glass remains intact. I hate this. For games like Doom it's important increasing realism for more credible action and why not, for a more exciting gameplay.

Destruction to a certain point is nice but not to the point where you can blast through anything it ruins the story line IMO.

[Krezy Man]

Luzifer said:

IMHO environment destruction adds more realism to a game. In some shooters you can hurt a window with a rocket launcher and the glass remains intact. I hate this. For games like Doom it's important increasing realism for more credible action and why not, for a more exciting gameplay.

Environmental destruction (to a certain extent) would be interesting, but like others have said, if everything were destructable, it would ruin gameplay. Imagine carelessy firing a rocket and destroying, say, an exit door, but rather than just taking the door out, it completely destroys the hallway it leads into. How are you going to get past that? By wasting all of your explosives? Say that was your last rocket. Now you're faced with re-loading the map.

[Luzifer]

Krezy Man said:

Environmental destruction (to a certain extent) would be interesting, but like others have said, if everything were destructable, it would ruin gameplay. Imagine carelessy firing a rocket and destroying, say, an exit door, but rather than just taking the door out, it completely destroys the hallway it leads into. How are you going to get past that? By wasting all of your explosives? Say that was your last rocket. Now you're faced with re-loading the map.

That's the challenge. You must decide which weapon you have to use avoiding a damage that could force you to begin again the map. So if you're in close and small places it's better not using powerful weapons. In waste areas instead is possible using mass destruction weapons like rocket launchers or nukes. For example if you're in a tunnel and a monster is approaching you can shoot at the floor and let fall the monster to a place located under the floor.

[The_Aeromaster]

Luzifer said:

That's the challenge. You must decide which weapon you have to use avoiding a damage that could force you to begin again the map. So if you're in close and small places it's better not using powerful weapons. In waste areas instead is possible using mass destruction weapons like rocket launchers or nukes. For example if you're in a tunnel and a monster is approaching you can shoot at the floor and let fall the monster to a place located under the floor.

I like where this dude is goin, but what u've gotta do is MAKE the storyline comply. Like if u don't want us blasting through the wall to make getting to the exit easier (like someone said earlier) don't give us a spacesuit or anything of the like and make outside the wall space, so if u do that ur fucked. It'll add a ton more realism if they do it right.

Someone did say also though that it'd be a bitch doin it right, and I agree with that, so it won't be in there.

[uniQ]

UAC would be silly to have weapons on their station that can blast through its very own walls and outer windows...all ppl would be killed by some sick weirdo going nuts with the rocket launcher only because his wife betrayed him :) ... nah. also would it be stupid to make the windows leading outside the base breakable with "standard" weapon power. if such things like breaking those safety windows is in the plot then i bet you'll find an extra det-pack to destroy them or they are slightly damaged (e.g. by hellscum fire) and only need some pointed rockets to finally break.

what i like to see are "normal" things that can be brocken: fire extinguisher, inner windows (not mode of safety glass), crates, boxes, BARRELS, lamps, some machinery, mirrors, cans, seats and other destroyable inventar, etc.

[dsm]

Ruining the level completely is stupid imho. I'm all for destructible windows and the like, but there are things much more important in such a game than destructible terrain.

If I were a game programmer, I'd rather spend time on making it look cool and at least semi-realistic to blast the enemies than litterally ruin all the artists' and level designers' work by allowing every wall to be ruined.

Plus, like I said, certain areas can be scripted to be somewhat destructible - as long as a few areas can be made destructible, then it'd add most of the realism guys like you want without ruining the game for those of us who rather like to enjoy the artists' and level designers' work and get immersed in the environment and the game's storyline.

[Luzifer]

OK. I see that I'm standing alone in my opinion. But let us turn back to the first question. What about secrets? I mean secrets like them in Quake 1 and 2. Also will the game be linear or not. I mean are you forced to go from a level to another or is the gameplay like Half Life?

[dsm]

Luzifer said:

OK. I see that I'm standing alone in my opinion. But let us turn back to the first question. What about secrets? I mean secrets like them in Quake 1 and 2. Also will the game be linear or not. I mean are you forced to go from a level to another or is the gameplay like Half Life?

It's like Half Life afaik and I already answered your question regarding secrets.
Can't tell you how linear it'll be - probably quite linear, since most typical first person shooters are.

[uniQ]

secrets will be surely in.
without them it would be your typical linear waste-of-time-shooter.
my style of playing id games: first clear the level from enemy hellscum then look at the beautiful level while searching for secrets that i haven't found yet.

[AirRaid]

Except this time, when you're going round searching for those secrets, you'll run into a zombie you downed before, who got up again.

...awesome. :D

[The_Aeromaster]

dsm said:

Plus, like I said, certain areas can be scripted to be somewhat destructible - as long as a few areas can be made destructible, then it'd add most of the realism guys like you want without ruining the game for those of us who rather like to enjoy the artists' and level designers' work and get immersed in the environment and the game's storyline.

That's a good compromise.

uniQ said:

secrets will be surely in.
without them it would be your typical linear waste-of-time-shooter.
my style of playing id games: first clear the level from enemy hellscum then look at the beautiful level while searching for secrets that i haven't found yet.

AirRaid said:

Except this time, when you're going round searching for those secrets, you'll run into a zombie you downed before, who got up again.

...awesome. :D

Awesome indeed.

[dsm]

AirRaid said:

Except this time, when you're going round searching for those secrets, you'll run into a zombie you downed before, who got up again.

...awesome. :D

Dammit! Now it happens again! I want this game so bad that I feel like I'm gonna explode!

Zombies that get up again after a while = cool.

I know that Quake 1 had zombies that got up again after getting shot, but this time around, some of the zombies can be killed with regular shots, while only some of them will get back up adding a sense of uncertainty.

"Will this zombie get back up again? Or will it stay dead?"

/Me dwools

[Luzifer]

>I know that Quake 1 had zombies that got up again after getting shot, but this time around, some of the zombies can be killed with regular shots, while only some of them will get back up adding a sense of uncertainty.

"Will this zombie get back up again? Or will it stay dead?"

Maybe in the Romero "DAWN OF THE DEAD" style. You must shoot in the head for killing them definetely

[Dubh]

Re: Destruction.

We have seen that it is possible to shoot glass in the vid.
I'd say a nice tough would be:

You know that cooridoor (pic from mag) where there is a window looking out onto the surface, say if you are in a fight in this area and one of your bullets accidentally hits the window, this would cause sudden implosion of that area (and you die)so you might be forced to fight off a few zombies with your chainsaw just because it is too risky to open fire in volatile areas like that.

Cool

[dsm]

Dubh said:

Re: Destruction.

We have seen that it is possible to shoot glass in the vid.
I'd say a nice tough would be:

You know that cooridoor (pic from mag) where there is a window looking out onto the surface, say if you are in a fight in this area and one of your bullets accidentally hits the window, this would cause sudden implosion of that area (and you die)so you might be forced to fight off a few zombies with your chainsaw just because it is too risky to open fire in volatile areas like that.

Cool

That would be soo annoying and suck soo hard - nothing to ruin the fun like having an area where you have to be extremely careful at what you hit - unless it's fairly easy to avoid, I would be very displeased if something like this is in Doom 3.

[AirRaid]

Luzifer said:

Maybe in the Romero "DAWN OF THE DEAD" style. You must shoot in the head for killing them definetely

Nah, they get up wherever you hit em. Some of them. I think the idea is down it and run... depends on your ammo level.

[Shaviro]

Luzifer said:

Maybe in the Romero "DAWN OF THE DEAD" style. You must shoot in the head for killing them definetely

No. That would cause annoying gameplay.

[Alboroto]

It would be really cool to have walls that can get damaged, but not destroyed, like blasting a panel in a wall or bendig pipes with a rocket blast...

Also, I'd like to blow a window and see thigs being sucked to outer space (if there's a level in space)the way the alien was sucked on Alien Resurection.

[The_Aeromaster]

Shaviro said:

No. That would cause annoying gameplay.

Not really as long as u could knock em down with a normal shot. Then, if u want u could put one in their head to keep them down. Or u could run like hell, depending on the situation.

[Naked Snake]

Ugh, destructable enviroments, how lame. IMO, It should be only certain parts should be able to be blown to shit.

[Alientank]

The_Aeromaster said:

Not really as long as u could knock em down with a normal shot. Then, if u want u could put one in their head to keep them down. Or u could run like hell, depending on the situation.

Shaviro was right, that would be so fucking gay and annoying. Do you want to have to shoot every zombie then always bend over them and shoot them in the head? Boring IMO and tedious.

[Fletcher`]

Alboroto said:

It would be really cool to have walls that can get damaged, but not destroyed, like blasting a panel in a wall or bendig pipes with a rocket blast...

That's not a half bad idea.

Also, I'd like to blow a window and see thigs being sucked to outer space (if there's a level in space)the way the alien was sucked on Alien Resurection.

Wouldn't that in effect, kill you as well?

[Arno]

Alboroto said:

It would be really cool to have walls that can get damaged, but not destroyed, like blasting a panel in a wall or bendig pipes with a rocket blast...

That sounds a lot like the amount of destruction that is possible in Duke3D. Only little scenery, pipes, lights, computer screens and some cracks in the wall can be broken. That would be cool!