What's your opinion on the Master Levels? (Also, got the physical release)

[Roebloz]

I personally really enjoy the Master Levels (Especially the Dr.Sleep maps, rest in pieces) but a lot of people seem to think they are pretty bad. I wonder what your specific opinion on them is, and if we can debunk the myth that "master levls bad fart lol" is the opinion of everyone.

 

I can definitely say I like them a lot, I mean...

(Also no, this is not just to flex, I am honestly curious about other people's opinions on the Master Levels.)

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

I personally think most of them are okay. Dr Sleep's levels are maybe too similar, but I still like them and are among my favorites. BlackTower is a killer level for me (Same with Attack and Combine), it's concept and the combat generally feels nice (Hurt me plenty that is, idk UV), plus the ambient of it's midi (shared with bloodfalls) makes it much more creppy. But some of them (I'm looking at you MEPHISTO.WAD) can be very frustrating and sometimes not fun at all. Still, as a product, I think it's a decent level pack, most of them can be beaten in 20 minutes or a bit more so they're not that time consuming, and, at the end of the day it's more content.

[Koko Ricky]

Both the PC and PS1 editions of Master Levels were pretty interesting. The latter's use of PS1 Doom aesthetics/music made them quite memorable and maps like Attack are just really well crafted. Blood Sea (PC only) also really stuck out as an interesting concept, as did the Black Tower and even that odd Teeth map. 

 

That said, they have a different feel than Doom 2 and I think that turned some off. The maps are also random, not part of any connected story, and a few of them are meh. Perhaps that was enough for a lot of folks to see them as inferior. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Koko Ricky

[Captain POLAND]

Some of them are better than others.

[Toilet_Wine_Connoisseur]

I really enjoyed, a few were mediocre but I think it consistently delivered on clever and creative map designs. Black Tower and Titan's Manor were standouts to me 

[spineapple tea]

Some of the maps are very nostalgic to me but aren't the kind of maps I'd come back to soon.

[Cinnamon]

I did play all of them quite recently, but my opinion is basically just the mainstream opinion. Some three or so maps are quite fun, a few others still are serviceable, but about half of it constitute the worst set of levels I've decided to complete... If I take a quick look at the map authors most of the bad maps can be attributed to Klie, the others did fine overall.

[Rudolph]

I really wish that they allowed continuous play*. Also, their secrets are oftentimes absurd. Take the map Subspace for example: if all the maps were meant to enforce pistol start, why would you put a Rocket Launcher on top of the exit teleporter? And why make them so disproportionally generous if the supplies you get from them are not going to carry over to the next level?

 

Those issues aside, I think they are all good and I would have loved seeing some of them replace in Doom II.

 

*Yes, I know about JP LeBreton's excellent Works of the Masters. ;)

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Rudolph

[Thelokk]

They're nowhere near as bad as people (and a very famous youtuber) make them out to be. Maximum Doom, on the other hand...

[thiccyosh]

It's too much of a mixed bag for me to enjoy it.

[Boyes1989]

I've only really played the Master Levels on the PSX release of Final Doom, however, I think the maps presented there are great.

[tonytheparrot]

Just like with a lot of people, they are a mixed bag for me. I only really enjoy Attack, Paradox, Trapped on Titan, Geryon, Black Tower and Bad Dream. The rest ranges from servicable levels like Dr Sleep's to abominations like Mephisto. 

[NiGHTS108]

I generally dislike Master Levels, there's a lot of maps I really really dislike like Mephisto's Maosoleum and Titan Manor, but there's better ones like Black Tower or Geryon

[stan1234]

Some levels were good, but most were bad. I enjoyed TEETH, Bad Dream and a few others. But also having MEPHISTO.WAD in the same mapset just makes it feel like too much of a mixed bag to enjoy. Pistol start being forced is also a feature of the WAD that I dislike. For its time, it's a good WAD, but it just doesn't hold up today imo. Pretty much the mainstream opinion but I've only played master levels recently (Did 2 playthroughs), so I don't have any nostalgia for the WAD, which might have affected my opinion.

[Nikku4211]

A bunch of Doom fans from the 1990s were hired by Id Software to release their unreleased levels into a level compilation in order for Id to compete with D!Zone.

 

The levels in this compilation are exactly what I'd expect from the kind of levels designed by Doom fans in the 1990s.

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

5 hours ago, Rudolph said:

if all the maps were meant to enforce pistol start, why would you put a Rocket Launcher on top of the exit teleporter?

I heard somewhere that the wad was supposed to contain more maps...

[Rudolph]

22 minutes ago, xX_Lol6_Xx said:

I heard somewhere that the wad was supposed to contain more maps...

You heard right! Check out the Works of the Masters project that I mentioned earlier.

 

Clearly, there were more than enough maps to put together a standard 32-level megawad. Talk about a missed opportunity. :(

Edited May 26, 2022 by Rudolph

[Murdoch]

A mixed bag. Some good for the time, some bad, at least one aggressively awful. Fistula seemed specifically designed to piss the player off. In my case, it suceeded.

[Anonymous Space Marine]

I'm fascinated with the history of how the Master Levels came to be. As for the maps themselves, I don't think they're bad per se. But they are certainly flawed. I enjoy Trapped on Titan and Black Tower. However, I don't look foward to playing maps like Mephisto's Maosoleum or Titan Manor. I find many of the maps short, puzzley, and a bit repetitive. Nonetheless, I really don't mind playing through it every once and a while.

[out_of_service]

As a fan of 90’s shovelware Doom maps I love the heck out of the Master Levels for Doom II. I have too many favourites to list off here. I will say I’m especially fond of the versions that appear in PSX Final Doom! Lots of good memories.

[Dark Pulse]

23 hours ago, Koko Ricky said:

Both the PC and PS1 editions of Master Levels were pretty interesting. The latter's use of PS1 Doom aesthetics/music made them quite memorable and maps like Attack are just really well crafted. Blood Sea (PC only) also really stuck out as an interesting concept, as did the Black Tower and even that odd Teeth map. 

 

That said, they have a different feel than Doom 2 and I think that turned some off. The maps are also random, not part of any connected story, and a few of them are meh. Perhaps that was enough for a lot of folks to see them as inferior. 

PC Only?

 

*Ahem.*

[Rudolph]

2 hours ago, Murdoch said:

Fistula seemed specifically designed to piss the player off. In my case, it suceeded.

Really? What are you referring to specifically?

[Poncho1]

The Master Levels are a mixed bag overall. Some are really good (Titan Manor, Black Tower, Trapped on Titan, Paradox, and most of Dr. Sleep's maps), though others are either annoying (TEETH.wad) or just plain bizarre (Christen Klie's stuff).

 

That said, I never quite understood the extreme hatred that many seem to have adopted recently. You'd think the mapmakers had spat in their faces, or something.

[maxmanium]

Meh.

[Murdoch]

13 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Really? What are you referring to specifically?

 

Pretty much everything. Even the second room you enter is deliberately designed to be cumbersome to navigate.

 

https://youtu.be/l9Jve51tPz0?t=59

 

There is no excuse for this kind of design. The only possible motivation is "I want to be a dick to the player".

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Murdoch

[Rudolph]

Huh. That is odd. Never had much problem navigating through this one myself. Maybe the fact that I do not do a pistol start helps?

[Murdoch]

16 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Huh. That is odd. Never had much problem navigating through this one myself. Maybe the fact that I do not do a pistol start helps?

 

You cannot not pistol start the Master Levels. In their original form, they are intended to be played as single, standalone maps. But that's beside the point. It's the layout of the room itself. It's simply dickish and can only slow the player down. I don't remember the rest of the map off the top of my head, but I am sure there were other sections where being a dick seemed to be the primary design motivation.

[Rudolph]

4 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

You cannot not pistol start the Master Levels.

I play them using Works of the Masters, which allows continuous play.

 

Anyway, I am not trying to invalidate your experience here; I just do not remember ever struggling with that part, which is surprising, as I still struggle with dickishly-designed maps such as E4M1's Hell Beneath. I do not have access to the WAD at the moment, so I cannot replay it to refresh my memory. 

 

Who knows, maybe I am just insanely lucky? :P

[El Juancho]

Most of the levels are terrible, but there are a few levels that are just bad :P

 

My favs are bloodsea and paradox.

Edited May 27, 2022 by El juancho

[Bri]

Back in the 90's they were really good. It was just more Doom 2 and it was really fun to play them. Some of the maps had some interesting concepts for the time, too, even though a lot of it was unrefined. None of the Master Levels aged very well, but still, I have good memories from them. I especially liked Dr Sleep's maps because - well, I can't quite put my finger on why, but they had a unique atmosphere to them that I enjoyed. Paradox probably also holds up pretty well gameplaywise today.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Bri