PSX Doom as a Unity add on

[RichardDS90]

After playing Quake 64 via the add ons from the Quake remaster. One thing hit me, how comes there hasn't been any plans to add the PSX Doom as an add on?

Okay sure, taking into account about the coloured lighting, reverb, the firesky and of course, different developer being factors as to why. But still, I do wonder why there's been no known attempt at porting it there considering that even without the aforementioned features, it'd still be a somewhat different experience, though almost similar to the Saturn version but better if you will.

[Gez]

If Nightdive hires @intacowetrust, we'll know this is in the cards!

 

They could make it a three-pack with 3DO Doom (through Phoenix) and Jaguar Doom (through Calico)...

Edited June 4, 2022 by Gez

[Dark Pulse]

Well, the biggest challenge to this would be simple: The PSX version deviates pretty hard from the original PC codebase.

 

For example, the rendering is actually done with something more akin to GL Nodes rather than the original (Doom 64 also does this). Monsters do vary considerably (The PSX Revenant is considerably slower and only fires homing missiles, PSX Lost Soul has less HP but seems more aggressive). Lower game logic tickrate (15 Hz). The stuff you mentioned. Blending modes (necessary for Nightmare Spectres). Etc.

 

It could be done, of course (PsyDoom did, after all!), but it's not something where you can just "add" the features to the engine and it'd work. The engine makes some pretty fundamental assumptions, and PSX Doom changed several of those. So it'd kind of need its own variant engine to work, and all that for a game that while notable is probably not going to be seen as too majorly different to a casual player.

 

So in short... the money and time it'd take to do is probably not going to be recouped, and commercial game projects are about making money, not losing it.

[Metal_Slayer]

Since PSX Doom includes a mix of levels of both games it would be necessary to sell it standalone from both versions, maybe pack it with PSX Final Doom too. Other than that, it's a tough product to market, any references to the Playstation brand can't be used since Doom is owned by Microsoft now, it also needs to show people that it's not the same game as the other releases. And of course, it would probably need to be packaged with the Deluxe Edition of the next Doom game so they could guarantee to at least have some sales.

10 hours ago, Gez said:

They could make it a three-pack with 3DO Doom (through Phoenix) and Jaguar Doom (through Calico)...

I think this is kind of unnecessary, Jaguar Doom could simply be the same game without all of the effects, changes in physics and object placement of the PSX version, while 3DO Doom could be the same thing but with the music of that port.

 

7 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Well, the biggest challenge to this would be simple: The PSX version deviates pretty hard from the original PC codebase.

So, is the N64 port of Quake similar to the original codebase?

Edited June 5, 2022 by Metal_Slayer

[gwain]

35 minutes ago, Metal_Slayer said:

Since PSX Doom includes a mix of levels of both games it would be necessary to sell it standalone from both versions

why

[Edward850]

1 hour ago, Metal_Slayer said:

So, is the N64 port of Quake similar to the original codebase?

The BSP format was updated to support coloured light definitions. Otherwise it's basically identical, which is why we ported the maps over.

 

Quake 64 is a rare console port of a PC game of that era, as usually the codebase would be drastically altered, but Q64 appears to be a straight port of the PC code.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Edward850

[Metal_Slayer]

1 hour ago, gwain said:

why

Because Doom and Doom 2 are sold separately, there's also the effort of developing a port with commercial quality. Besides, the engine would be so different from the Unity port that it would be easier to make a new executable rather than trying to tie both versions together. It would also provide a legal way of acquiring the PSX files other than owning the original disc.

 

[gwain]

6 minutes ago, Metal_Slayer said:

Because Doom and Doom 2 are sold separately, there's also the effort of developing a port with commercial quality. Besides, the engine would be so different from the Unity port that it would be easier to make a new executable rather than trying to tie both versions together. It would also provide a legal way of acquiring the PSX files other than owning the original disc.

why couldn't it be bundled in with one of the dooms it could even be bundled with doom64

if you had one of the doom's it would a pretty good way to demo levels of the other one making you want to get the other doom

Edited June 5, 2022 by gwain

[Metal_Slayer]

1 minute ago, gwain said:

why couldn't it be bundled in with one of the dooms

so if you had one of the doom's it would a pretty good way to demo levels of the other one making you want to get the other doom

Because some people would think that it's not worth it buying the other one just for the cut maps.

[intacowetrust]

18 hours ago, Gez said:

If Nightdive hires @intacowetrust, we'll know this is in the cards!

 

They could make it a three-pack with 3DO Doom (through Phoenix) and Jaguar Doom (through Calico)...

 

It would be great to see PSX Doom returned to its natural homeplace on consoles (and other platforms) via an official port, but sadly it's probably not likely to happen for the foreseeable future due to the technical, legal, marketing and commercial reasons outlined in previous posts. Who knows though, I might have written off Doom 64 as something we'd never see re-released a while ago but here we are now... PSX Doom seems much less likely though given the awkward position it occupies as being somewhat in between PC Doom and Doom 64.

 

Regardless I am not too worried about these things because so long as we have open personal computing platforms then ports like PsyDoom (shameless plug!) will allow us to experience PlayStation Doom in an updated, modernized form. PSX Doom may not receive any official updates but it is most certainly not forgotten by the Doom community.

[Redneckerz]

8 hours ago, Edward850 said:

The BSP format was updated to support coloured light definitions. Otherwise it's basically identical, which is why we ported the maps over.

 

Quake 64 is a rare console port of a PC game of that era, as usually the codebase would be drastically altered, but Q64 appears to be a straight port of the PC code.

I am glad this is somewhat confirmed now because Quake 64 looked like a carbon copy of the PC version, but with colored lights and at 320x240.

 

Having said that, I did read that Quake 2 on N64 uses the same engine, but supposely, Daikatana does aswell. Has there been any evidence of these two games actually using the Q64 code?

[Senor Cacodemon]

On 6/4/2022 at 9:45 AM, Salahmander2 said:

After playing Quake 64 via the add ons from the Quake remaster. One thing hit me, how comes there hasn't been any plans to add the PSX Doom as an add on?

That's what I thought as well. Psx doom, at least in my opinion stands out in the classic doom games catalogue.

[Mr Masker]

18 hours ago, Metal_Slayer said:

Because some people would think that it's not worth it buying the other one just for the cut maps.

you could possibly just do an add on for Doom 1 called, "Doom 1 PSX" and an add on for Doom 2 called, "Doom 2 PSX". 

[Metal_Slayer]

1 hour ago, Mr Masker said:

you could possibly just do an add on for Doom 1 called, "Doom 1 PSX" and an add on for Doom 2 called, "Doom 2 PSX". 

Playstation Doom is a single campaign that uses both Doom and Doom 2 maps, not versions of Doom and Doom 2 individually, also, I think I mentioned how any references to the Playstation brand can't be used and that includes "PSX".

[Dark Pulse]

On 6/4/2022 at 9:11 PM, Metal_Slayer said:

Other than that, it's a tough product to market, any references to the Playstation brand can't be used since Doom is owned by Microsoft now, it also needs to show people that it's not the same game as the other releases.

While I get what you're going for here, this is pretty circular logic.

 

id Software still owns the copyright. id is owned by ZeniMax. ZeniMax is owned by Microsoft. That doesn't mean Microsoft owns the copyrights, merely that Microsoft ultimately controls the company that controls the company that owns the copyright.

[Rudolph]

On 6/4/2022 at 10:24 AM, Gez said:

They could make it a three-pack with 3DO Doom (through Phoenix) and Jaguar Doom (through Calico)...

Why 3DO Doom and Jaguar Doom, though? Minus the former's kickass new soundtrack, what is so special about them?

 

From what I can read, they are much closer to the PC version visually, but lack most of the additions of the Playstation version.

[Kyle07]

By reading the thread title I thought that they have added PSX Doom to the unity ports.

 

I would not await that they will do it some day. I would rather play such TCs on the PC.

[Muusi]

I'd be okay with even just the maps and the superior sound effects. 

 

In my fantasy world PSX Doom would be rereleased as a full on Nightdive remaster with both Doom and Final Doom. One can dream i guess. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Muusi

[Kinsie]

4 hours ago, Muusi said:

I'd be okay with even just the maps and the superior sound effects. 

 

In my fantasy world PSX Doom would be rereleased as a full on Nightdive remaster with both Doom and Final Doom. One can dream i guess. 

Given that the original PC games are readily available on all current platforms for five bucks each (and Final Doom is free in them), I don't think "that game you already have but with less detail, less monsters, no memorable MIDI rock and a higher pricetag" would be an especially easy sell to anyone that didn't grow up with that version, no matter how good the PSX music and atmosphere is. This isn't a Doom 64 deal, or even a Quake 64 deal where it could easily be bolted on as a free extra! The effort that would be needed can - and should - be put towards cooler and weirder things.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Kinsie

[Dynamo]

Even adding the standalone maps as bonus content accessible from the main menu is not trivial because they use certain new textures and even new props (those chains for example) that makes it so it's not the same as something like, say, the master levels. That doesn't mean that it isn't doable, but that it would require some extra tinkering and may not be worth the effort in the end considering it's trivial to obtain and play those maps through other means anyway.

[Muusi]

7 hours ago, Kinsie said:

I don't think "that game you already have but with less detail, less monsters, no memorable MIDI rock and a higher pricetag"

I'd say the PSX version is far more than this. You get new maps and many of the maps you already have look way different. 

 

I guess there's no use in trying to justify this since it's never gonna happen anyway. Still i must say that i had access to both PC Doom and PSX Doom as a kid and i preferred the latter. There's more to it than just the PC version but less.