Jumpwad (7 platforming maps by Ribbiks and me! :D)

[Grain of Salt]

Okay I was wrong, don't record any demos just yet, we're going to make a minor update that'll probably desync them, sorry :V 

 

I naively thought the release in the OP could be our final final one, but there are issues we do want to fix.

[Obsidian]

This is...delightful. Maybe a smidge difficult for me in a decent few places, but the gameplay (and also that lovely Spyro gem collecting sound) is just very much my jam. <3

[Jacek Bourne]

Excellent. I'm tempted to record a playthrough and I very well might.

[TJG1289]

This seems really cool! Plus, hearing there's a heavy Spyro influence is right up my alley.

[ludicrous_peridot]

A question I have is why while for most maps subsectors not in the wad, map 4 has them. The reason I am asking is that I'm trying to play this in a port that would not generate subsectors and it can run the 4th map, so I'm curious if I'm able to beat it actually... but seeing this map has them - it there a point of not including them into other maps?

[Ar_e_en]

I got to map 07 and I'm stumped.

Spoiler

I can finish the map with the A rank by the normal exit just fine, and I found all 8 two digit number combos, but I can't see any connection between the numbers. I'm in the room where you can input the numbers, but I can only input numbers from 1 to 7 and the number combos have 0's and 9's. Does anyone have a hint or an idea of what to do with the numbers? I've been stuck at this for hours!

 

[tomas7777]

A truly original Doom mod! I won't be surprised if this gets a Cacoward, it's amazing both conceptually and technically. Though, as some have said, it's a bit noob-unfriendly in some spots, as it relies on strafe-running (even SR50) as soon as the first map.

[Nirvana]

2 hours ago, tomas7777 said:

A truly original Doom mod! I won't be surprised if this gets a Cacoward, it's amazing both conceptually and technically. Though, as some have said, it's a bit noob-unfriendly in some spots, as it relies on strafe-running (even SR50) as soon as the first map.

Ribbiks told me during testing that there are no gems in the wad that require SR50, so they should all be able to be acquired through other means.

Edit: Apparently none of the large gems that count to kill% require SR50 but a bunch of the smaller, item% ones do need SR50 to acquire.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Nirvana

[Nefelibeta]

12 hours ago, ludicrous_peridot said:

A question I have is why while for most maps subsectors not in the wad, map 4 has them. The reason I am asking is that I'm trying to play this in a port that would not generate subsectors and it can run the 4th map, so I'm curious if I'm able to beat it actually... but seeing this map has them - it there a point of not including them into other maps?

What is exactly a subsector?

[msx2plus]

5 hours ago, Nirvana said:

Ribbiks told me during testing that there are no gems in the wad that require SR50, so they should all be able to be acquired through other means.

can confirm, there were a couple where it certainly made it easier but the only time i really encountered that as a difficulty spike was in map06. i couldn't quite get the timing on one of the trickier jumps and just resorted to an sr50.

 

i don't think anything these two will ever put out will be "newbie friendly" per se but they're certainly great learning tools - just about the first thing you should be doing if you want to "learn" doom is probably being comfortable with sr40ing just about all the time.

Edited June 6, 2022 by msx2plus

[SleepyVelvet]

Map05:

 

Great Map!  There's some mandatory bottlenecks for some of the simpler "tutorial" jumps, but otherwise a good deal of interconnectivity and multi-pathing for some of the later harder stuff that makes the map fold into itself and come together in a comfy fluid way.  I didn't do the lateral multi-hop across the gorge; I journeyed up to the precipice and went for the eternal flame skydive path to get to that far-off section.

I was actually able to 100% this one in about 30 minutes, all the others took over an hour.  That's not good or bad, per se, just noteworthy.  I got the 4 mini-pickups on the southern rectangle pillar last (meandered over there from the exit platform)
Oh, and I see what the difficulty settings are actually for now.  I thought it was gonna be for some sort of movement effects in the later levels, but no, it's to tone down the particle effects of the snow actors, lol.  Thankfully, my rig I splooged all my money on several years ago still handles things like a champ, besides some age quirks like it smelling like burning hair when I use my graphics card (which also has a capacitor/power-supply issue, but when it's working it works well).  I'm playing this is prboom-plus and seems to work fine on my end, but good idea on the "snow" settings.

 

Map06:

 

Spooky.  I used the roaming vile to help with that big long lunge, the one with the boost gems and backing evil-eye (I think it was the far south section iirc, the one with the secret stash)

This map is definitely getting tighter and precise angles seem to matter more and more.  The last two gems near the exit were tricky for me, the ones that are barred off and have two separate switches you have to hit for each.  After all that, I did eventually kill Mr Flame and take his secret stash to wrap up the map 100%.

 

Map07: I think Sector 2652 (far northeast) is inescapable? @Grain of Salt

 

Another cool map.  I had to look a couple things up in the editor, like to figure out that the exploder balls turn off when you visit Bear, which also opens up the secret exit.  I'm currently still trying to max it, and am stuck on the (8 note music?) code puzzle.

Edited June 6, 2022 by NoisyVelvet
original post was a dumpster fire of nested spoilers

[ludicrous_peridot]

7 hours ago, Nefelibeta said:

What is exactly a subsector?

They are parts of a sector and I would not be able to explain it concisely, and better than the wiki. What I mean in my post is this: 

Spoiler

 

Jumping is hard by the way.. still haven't got past MAP04...

Spoiler

 

[Ar_e_en]

6 hours ago, NoisyVelvet said:

Map07: I think Sector 2652 (far northeast) is inescapable? @Grain of Salt

The area with the red exploding gems and walls of green fire balls? Yeah, I got stuck there too, thankfully - I had a save!

Spoiler

I've tried many things in the code room - adding the numbers together (the result has an 8 in it, making it invalid), multiplying the numbers (it ends with a 0, another invalid result), tried putting the numbers together while looking for patterns, but I didn't find any solutions. It's really abstract and I'm still trying crazy ideas. 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Ar_e_en

[yakfak]

this is cool as heck :3 it obliterates my need to go slow but is worth it. and unlimited icecream factory is one of the top map names

[tomas7777]

16 hours ago, Nirvana said:

Ribbiks told me during testing that there are no gems in the wad that require SR50, so they should all be able to be acquired through other means.

Edit: Apparently none of the large gems that count to kill% require SR50 but a bunch of the smaller, item% ones do need SR50 to acquire.

On a second thought, I always forget that I can jump mid-air, that's probably why I was unable to perform some jumps without SR50.

[Grain of Salt]

Quote

 

uploaded v1.1, here's a summary changelog: - eternal flame no longer counts towards item%

- jump orbs reimplemented in decorate to resolve zdoom-specific spawning issues

- mr flames has been tamed

--- ATTN prboom+ devs: why do W1/S1 LineEffect actions not work after restarting map??

- fixed several softlocks in map07

- various graphical tweaks and fixes

 

 

Same download link as before: https://www.rbkz.net/doom/jumpwad.zip

 

@Maribo apparently your demo stays in sync in the new version :D I guess in jumpwad there's not as many places where prng would desync things, and so if the geometry doesn't change you're often going to stay in sync...?

Edited June 24, 2022 by Grain of Salt

[SleepyVelvet]

Am I still good to continue the puzzle on Map07?  Or should I redo the map on v1.1?  If I should redo it, let me know.

 

I'm looking at old Ribbiks midis, and have begun googling sheet-music for "bear nursery rhymes" for the truth.  I will go to the end of the earth to solve this puzzle, even if I have to look too deeply into external media, like 

The Bear went over the Mountain and Bare Necessities from Jungle Book.

I don't wanna spoil it for myself though.

Edited June 6, 2022 by NoisyVelvet

[Aurelius]

45 minutes ago, Grain of Salt said:

ATTN prboom+ devs: why do W1/S1 LineEffect actions not work after restarting map??

 

AFAIK LineEffect is fundamentally broken in PrBoom+ (and by extension in DSDA Doom). I asked @kraflab about it some time ago, and he said that the brokenness of it is compatible behavior and that its use should be avoided.

 

EDIT: Also, loving the set so far! Very lovely gimmick, and some really ingenious implementations. 

Spoiler

Still need to finish up with the MAP07 puzzle.

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Aurelius

[Ar_e_en]

17 minutes ago, NoisyVelvet said:

Am I still good to continue the puzzle on Map07?  Or should I redo the map on v1.1?  If I should redo it, let me know.

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm looking at old Ribbiks midis, and have begun googling sheet-music for "bear nursery rhymes" for the truth.  I will go to the end of the earth to solve this puzzle, even if I have to look too deeply into external media, like 

The Bear went over the Mountain and Bare Necessities from Jungle Book.

I don't wanna spoil it for myself though.

Spoiler

I'm not sure that the puzzle requires external media solutions, but since you put the idea into my head - I guess I've got more avenues to explore for solutions to that puzzle!

 

Maybe Nic Cage from The Wicker Man has some wisdom for us:

 

 

[Grain of Salt]

1 hour ago, NoisyVelvet said:

Am I still good to continue the puzzle on Map07?  Or should I redo the map on v1.1?  If I should redo it, let me know.

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm looking at old Ribbiks midis, and have begun googling sheet-music for "bear nursery rhymes" for the truth.  I will go to the end of the earth to solve this puzzle, even if I have to look too deeply into external media, like 

The Bear went over the Mountain and Bare Necessities from Jungle Book.

I don't wanna spoil it for myself though.

 

"nothing with the big puzzle has changed, though one of the harder clues to find has been made simpler to access"

[GoneAway]

53 minutes ago, Aurelius said:

 

AFAIK LineEffect is fundamentally broken in PrBoom+ (and by extension in DSDA Doom). I asked @kraflab about it some time ago, and he said that the brokenness of it is compatible behavior and that its use should be avoided.

A_LineEffect edits the state table. That means that W1/S1 actions "consume" the state data itself. There's an additional problem that this function can insert junk data into the calling actor. It's completely broken, and some ports don't support it at all (odamex for instance). Others may have bug fixes to make it work as expected. I can't speculate as to why it's like this, but that's how it is, and it's not a "bug" from the standpoint of prboom+ / dsda-doom, since this is the "compatible" behaviour.

[Maribo]

2 hours ago, Grain of Salt said:

@Maribo apparently your demo stays in sync in the new version :D I guess in jumpwad there's not as many places where prng would desync things, and so if the geometry doesn't change you're often going to stay in sync...?

This is great to hear. I dunno about anyone else, but I'm highly anticipating the final version of this for demo recording... It's going to be such a cool treat to see what creative routes are devised.

Slight shame that eternal flames don't count for item% now, but I guess it's a good thing in the end. Some of them were a right headache. :P

[General Roasterock]

Just finished this set. I can not thank you two enough for revolutionizing the game in so many ways over the past years. The maps are all gorgeous, and the ingenuity to create what is essentially an all new genre for vanilla play is staggering. I will remember the time I’ve had with this set for the rest of my life.

 

Now about that Map 07 puzzle:

Spoiler

You actual motherfucker, Ribbiks. I can only count my lucky stars that I had a friend that knew music theory to work along side me, but we did it. What a rewarding sequence, and what a legendary map.

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by General Roasterock

[Hitboi]

Just finished the mapset today, got rank B in Map07, didn't get all gems because heck no, I gave up and went to the exit. Ribbiks and GrainOfSalt, this mapset is legendary!

Btw, what's the difference between the Map08 ending and the Map09 ending? The way you get them depends on the amount of big gems you collect in Map07?

Edited June 7, 2022 by Hitboi

[General Roasterock]

1 hour ago, Hitboi said:

Btw, what's the difference between the Map08 ending and the Map09 ending? The way you get them depends on the amount of big gems you collect in Map07?

 

Spoiler

The Map 09 ending is for the S Rank exit, and there's something that needs to happen besides collecting gems ;).

 

[msx2plus]

2 hours ago, General Roasterock said:

Now about that Map 07 puzzle

oh my goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood

[ludicrous_peridot]

So that "subsector" thing I mentioned before... ok, got my act together, read some wikis, and got me a level running I could probably actually beat :)

 

Spoiler

 

[SleepyVelvet]

Hmm...  I'm still stuck on the Map07 puzzle.  I don't really want to throw in the towel completely yet.  I could meme about what I've tried and didn't try.

I wonder though... Is this one where I'll hate myself after figuring it out, or one where I'll hate Ribbiks after figuring it out, or both?

Edited June 8, 2022 by NoisyVelvet

[Nefelibeta]

On 6/7/2022 at 4:13 AM, General Roasterock said:

Now about that Map 07 puzzle:

You lucky bitch

[Gez]

On lundi 6 juin 2022 at 10:26 AM, ludicrous_peridot said:

They are parts of a sector and I would not be able to explain it concisely, and better than the wiki. What I mean in my post is this: 

  Hide contents

That's the mark of ZDBSP extended nodes, meaning that the map is too complex for vanilla nodes.

 

On lundi 6 juin 2022 at 7:48 PM, kraflab said:

A_LineEffect edits the state table. That means that W1/S1 actions "consume" the state data itself. There's an additional problem that this function can insert junk data into the calling actor. It's completely broken, and some ports don't support it at all (odamex for instance). Others may have bug fixes to make it work as expected. I can't speculate as to why it's like this, but that's how it is, and it's not a "bug" from the standpoint of prboom+ / dsda-doom, since this is the "compatible" behaviour.

That's odd. Looking at the code in MBF I only see two accesses to the state table and they're both to read a value to assign to the "junk" line it uses for its effect. There's some weird-looking code in there (like if-evaluating an assignment, that always looks like a comparison was intended) but I don't see where it would thrash the state table.
 

Spoiler

//
// This allows linedef effects to be activated inside deh frames.
//

void A_LineEffect(mobj_t *mo)
{
  if (!(mo->intflags & MIF_LINEDONE))                // Unless already used up
    {
      line_t junk = *lines;                          // Fake linedef set to 1st
      if ((junk.special = mo->state->misc1))         // Linedef type
	{
	  player_t player, *oldplayer = mo->player;  // Remember player status
	  mo->player = &player;                      // Fake player
	  player.health = 100;                       // Alive player
	  junk.tag = mo->state->misc2;               // Sector tag for linedef
	  if (!P_UseSpecialLine(mo, &junk, 0))       // Try using it
	    P_CrossSpecialLine(&junk, 0, mo);        // Try crossing it
	  if (!junk.special)                         // If type cleared,
	    mo->intflags |= MIF_LINEDONE;            // no more for this thing
	  mo->player = oldplayer;                    // Restore player status
	}
    }
}

typedef struct line_s
{
  vertex_t *v1, *v2;     // Vertices, from v1 to v2.
  fixed_t dx, dy;        // Precalculated v2 - v1 for side checking.
  short flags;           // Animation related.
  short special;         
  short tag;
  short sidenum[2];      // Visual appearance: SideDefs.
  fixed_t bbox[4];       // A bounding box, for the linedef's extent
  slopetype_t slopetype; // To aid move clipping.
  sector_t *frontsector; // Front and back sector.
  sector_t *backsector; 
  int validcount;        // if == validcount, already checked
  void *specialdata;     // thinker_t for reversable actions
  int tranlump;          // killough 4/11/98: translucency filter, -1 == none
  int firsttag,nexttag;  // killough 4/17/98: improves searches for tags.
} line_t;