Jumpwad (7 platforming maps by Ribbiks and me! :D)

[GoneAway]

Actual mbf isn't compatible with prboom+, so it isn't the reference for these things. I realize that is unexpected, but nevertheless it's the case.

[Gez]

Oh, I see. In PrBoom+, they did something stupid and short-sighted to avoid having to use the MIF_LINEDONE internal flag.

Spoiler

void A_LineEffect(mobj_t *mo)
{
  static line_t junk;
  player_t player;
  player_t *oldplayer;

  if (compatibility_level < lxdoom_1_compatibility &&
      !prboom_comp[PC_APPLY_MBF_CODEPOINTERS_TO_ANY_COMPLEVEL].state)
    return;

  junk = *lines;
  oldplayer = mo->player;
  mo->player = &player;
  player.health = 100;
  junk.special = (short)mo->state->misc1;
  if (!junk.special)
    return;
  junk.tag = (short)mo->state->misc2;
  if (!P_UseSpecialLine(mo, &junk, 0, false))
    P_CrossSpecialLine(&junk, 0, mo, false);
  mo->state->misc1 = junk.special; // WTF?
  mo->player = oldplayer;
}

 

I could somewhat understand the desire to do such a thing if PrBoom+ didn't have the intflags field at all, but it does, so there's really no excuse for this change.

[Ar_e_en]

7 hours ago, NoisyVelvet said:

Hmm...  I'm still stuck on the Map07 puzzle.  I don't really want to throw in the towel completely yet.  I could meme about what I've tried and didn't try.

I wonder though... Is this one where I'll hate myself after figuring it out, or one where I'll hate Ribbiks after figuring it out, or both?

Spoiler

If what @General Roasterock said is true - then I'm sure fucked! Music theory is not my strong-suit, and at this point I think that the solution is something really abstract or ridiculous (like opening up the midi of the map into a program and finding the notes in the positions that correspond to the 8 numbers we found).

 

Although, I have thought of something: when you press a number in the code room - the middle platform lowers and prevents you from jumping to the other number inputs. I'm guessing that the voodoo doll script has to position some things before you input the next number, but you're still near one of the number inputs when the platform lowers (which is still affected by the speed and jankiness of the voodoo doll scripts). So, I'm assuming than whatever the answer to the code room is - it's a number sequence that doesn't have 2 consecutive repeating numbers (like "33433572" won't be a correct answer). So, that's something to think about.

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Ar_e_en

[LuciferSam86]

Damn that's a really solid mapset with an interesting mechanic. 

The aesthetics is something you can expect from Ribbiks and Grain of Salt and when I was playing I felt like at home and I didn't have to be worried to die a lot 😁 .

 

Great job guys, for me it's a solid 10/10. 

[Ar_e_en]

I finally solved the map 07 puzzle!

 

Spoiler

And I'm not satisfied with the solution. 

 

You know how I mentioned that it would be ridiculous if the solution involved opening up the midi of the map into a midi program and finding the correct notes? That is the ACTUAL solution! You have to find the midi file in SLADE, notice the clue in the midi data, export the midi, open it in a midi program (I used TuxGuitar), and find the correct notes based on the numbers you found. 

 

I finally got past the code room, took my flame and gems, read the note that basically tells you to "avoid all the green flames for an S rank" (it's texture was misaligned when it positioned itself btw), replayed the map, got an S rank, got past the code room again, found a secret room that leads to a long hallway and a jump that probably requires some sort of engine abuse to complete, said "Fuck That!", found the true exit and entered map 09...

 

I still like the wad as a whole, but that puzzle really soured my perception of the wad. 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Ar_e_en

[SleepyVelvet]

2 hours ago, Ar_e_en said:

I finally solved the map 07 puzzle!

 

I haven't, and have been trying to avoid reading the spoiler tags in this thread but was starting to lose all steam.  However, some life was breathed back into me after noticing something today:

 

Preface: I was snooping on a Vortale stream the other day, and when he got to the puzzle, he instinctively and immediately ripped oct17_re with slade and opened it a midi editor -

I mean okay, I was looking for a download link on ribbiks youtube page for it (but mostly looking at the notes visually to see if I could map any patterns to-and-from the ♫ clues from Map07), but I didn't see any download link except ribbiks saying "no download link" in the comments.  But okay, Vortale, you do your thing; I doubt ribbiks would require that many tools and hoops to jump through to solve a puzzle - and then I left the stream from spoilers.  I checked in half-an-hour later and he still had the editor open...;  I checked in half-an-hour after that, and once I jumped in, he immediately said something like "oh yah, I solved the main big puzzle, I'm just finding the last few gems".  Well fuck, that's a very huge suggestion that I was trying to avoid.  So, I did the same and ripped it into an editor and tried analyzing it.  Even though it literally has a subtrack called, "what's the mystery?", I couldn't derive anything that seemed to work.

I was close to either giving up completely or going down a billion other possible rabbit holes.  But, today I checked ribbiks' youtube channel again and noticed this sneaky fucking thing he slipped in a video description:
 

 

Hmm, so that kinda corrals me back to the file.  And... the "latest" version, did ribbiks fuck up and have to slide in the correct answer as some sort of shadow-patch?

 
 

 

Oh, the only noticeable change is on index 73, which is also one of the clue numbers, and also is on "what's the mystery?" subtrack.  In the previous version, I tried all sorts of things, like mapping these indices, mapping counts of eighth-notes from various points (because the clues are marked with literal eighth-note symbols), etc, but didn't have any luck.  Looking at this new development, though, it suggests that I should circle-back to the first attempt.  Which brings me back to this as the most elegant solution that pops into my mind:

 
 

 

I've tried the above and a few variations of it before since I saw Vortale stream.  But even when trying it again, it didn't work.  But this feels like a good-ass solution to me.

 

 

 

If I softlocked my v1.0 save, someone please tell me.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by NoisyVelvet
spelling. also spoiler tags are jank on the forum software.

[phoo]

Looks awesome! 

[ginc]

1 hour ago, NoisyVelvet said:

But even when trying it again, it didn't work.  But this feels like a good-ass solution to me. (spoiler'd data)

 

Spoiler

You're agonizingly close to cracking the code.

 

(don't click below if you don't want a hint)

Spoiler

I'm not up on music theory either, but I know that octaves on a piano start with which note?

 

 

[Ar_e_en]

10 hours ago, NoisyVelvet said:

 

I haven't, and have been trying to avoid reading the spoiler tags in this thread but was starting to lose all steam.  However, some life was breathed back into me after noticing something today:

  Reveal hidden contents

Preface: I was snooping on a Vortale stream the other day, and when he got to the puzzle, he instinctively and immediately ripped oct17_re with slade and opened it a midi editor -

I mean okay, I was looking for a download link on ribbiks youtube page for it (but mostly looking at the notes visually to see if I could map any patterns to-and-from the ♫ clues from Map07), but I didn't see any download link except ribbiks saying "no download link" in the comments.  But okay, Vortale, you do your thing; I doubt ribbiks would require that many tools and hoops to jump through to solve a puzzle - and then I left the stream from spoilers.  I checked in half-an-hour later and he still had the editor open...;  I checked in half-an-hour after that, and once I jumped in, he immediately said something like "oh yah, I solved the main big puzzle, I'm just finding the last few gems".  Well fuck, that's a very huge suggestion that I was trying to avoid.  So, I did the same and ripped it into an editor and tried analyzing it.  Even though it literally has a subtrack called, "what's the mystery?", I couldn't derive anything that seemed to work.

I was close to either giving up completely or going down a billion other possible rabbit holes.  But, today I checked ribbiks' youtube channel again and noticed this sneaky fucking thing he slipped in a video description:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Hmm, so that kinda corrals me back to the file.  And... the "latest" version, did ribbiks fuck up and have to slide in the correct answer as some sort of shadow-patch?

 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh, the only noticeable change is on index 73, which is also one of the clue numbers, and also is on "what's the mystery?" subtrack.  In the previous version, I tried all sorts of things, like mapping these indices, mapping counts of eighth-notes from various points (because the clues are marked with literal eighth-note symbols), etc, but didn't have any luck.  Looking at this new development, though, it suggests that I should circle-back to the first attempt.  Which brings me back to this as the most elegant solution that pops into my mind:

 
 

 

I've tried the above and a few variations of it before since I saw Vortale stream.  But even when trying it again, it didn't work.  But this feels like a good-ass solution to me.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

If I softlocked my v1.0 save, someone please tell me.

 

 

Spoiler

The 73rd section did throw me off when I found it (it was different from the rest), but I decided to note-down the first note anyway, because if I was wrong - I could still try other ideas I had at the time. The correction by ribbiks was not necessary, the puzzle can still be solved by ripping the midi data out.

 

Oh, and one more thing - The solution DOES have two consecutive repeating number in it! So, what was the point of the platform lowering? 

 

[General Roasterock]

4 hours ago, Ar_e_en said:

  Hide contents

what was the point of the platform lowering? 

 

Spoiler

Knowing voodoo scripts, the platform lowering is probably to prevent players from immediately jumping to the next switch before everything is in a stable state. Pressing too many buttons simultaneously would definitely break something in a sequence as particular as this.

 

[Grain of Salt]

Ribbiks has now bestowed upon us the 1.2 edits of jump, which will be the final release unless something nuclear happens.

 

Quote

========== changelog: ==========

- various tweaks/fixes, texture alignments, etc

- map03: a flame has been buffed

- map06: all biggems should now be possible to obtain regardless of route

- map07: a lost soul (not that kind) is looking for help

- map07: the bears are getting fatter, we better stop feeding them

- doombuilder configs uploaded: rbkz.net/doom/jumpwad_doombuilder_cfgs.zip

- v1.2 is the final version

 

Same download link: https://www.rbkz.net/doom/jumpwad.zip

 

As mentioned in the above changelog, we're also releasing config files for doombuilder that will let you make your own jumpwad levels :D You can make super hard absurdity or chilled out jumping fun!! You can absolutely go ham with the smallgems! The world is your oyster!!

Edited June 24, 2022 by Grain of Salt
https

[Ar_e_en]

21 hours ago, General Roasterock said:

  Hide contents

Knowing voodoo scripts, the platform lowering is probably to prevent players from immediately jumping to the next switch before everything is in a stable state. Pressing too many buttons simultaneously would definitely break something in a sequence as particular as this.

 

Spoiler

I guess, but you're still on a platform with a switch that you need to press twice in a row to solve the puzzle. I know that there is a delay between switch presses on the same switch, which theoretically should keep the script from breaking, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could break the script by timing the switch press just right or just mashing the use key a bunch. Seems finicky, but I guess that can be said about all voodoo scripts.

 

[sandwedge]

thought I would check this out because it looked so unique, and I definitely liked aspects of it.  Personally I think I enjoyed the first level a bit more since it was more linear.  some of the more open ended and optional stuff, especially map 2, felt like it would be more fun to try to speedrun and plan a route than just play casually blind.  I did really enjoy the aesthetics, especially playing on software mode for the first time in a while.  I think you'll probably know if you like this or not based on how much you like platforming, but despite me not being huge on the concept I'm glad I checked out something so unique!

 

 

YT description:

Played in Prboom+ with software rendering on MBF compatibility. No difficulty levels, monsters or weapons! This is just pure Doom platforming at its finest by some well known mappers, Ribbiks and Grain of Salt! This is very much out of my comfort zone for Doom, but I thought it would be a cool change of pace and its gotten some great reviews! I actually really enjoyed the visuals of this one paired with software mode and a very clean looking display with no HUD or weapon. Doom movement can be quite fun on its own, and this also has a jump button that actually uses the archvile jump physics! Feels better than that might sound. While I got through the first 3 maps on this one and had a good time, I discovered that I really prefer Doom combat to pure platforming. I enjoyed the first level a bit more since it was very directed, whereas the next two were a lot more open. I expect that speedrunners will have a lot of fun finding paths to collect all the gems as fast as possible, so if that's your jam or you like platforming collectathons definitely check this out!

[Gez]

The gems that do not make a sound are because you make the landing sound at the same time and it gets priority over the item pickup sound...

 

[Ravendesk]

Jumpwad blew my mind, unforgettable experience.

 

One thing to report:

I think I have encountered a softlock in map 07.

Spoiler

In this part of the map:

I have jumped from here above the raised platform on the right.

And got here:

And it seems like there is no way out? Unless I'm missing something.

Still present in 1.2 I believe.

 

[Ravendesk]

Seeing that many people struggle with Map 07's puzzle, I've made a detailed video explanation of the solution.

But please only watch it if you're completely stuck or if you already know the answer.

 

So here it is:

Spoiler

 

 

[Grain of Salt]

10 hours ago, Ravendesk said:

Jumpwad blew my mind, unforgettable experience.

 

One thing to report:

I think I have encountered a softlock in map 07.

 

 

Thanks for mentioning this. Ribbiks has decided (and I agree) that it isn't quite practical to fix this softlock, because it can't be done without either making it too easy to get to the flame or breaking demo compatibility with 1.2

 

If more similar issues are found, though, we might update again, and this is one of the things that'll be fixed.

[SleepyVelvet]

Just solved it (v1.0)...

Here's some ramblings and reviews and feelings:

 

edit: P.S there were a couple things I didn't pick up on, but anyways...

 

Yah I'm not 100% satisfied by the correct solution.  It seems like an arbitrary deviation from some of the more natural ones that someone should try first, or at least the solution lives in the next outward-layer-shell in a broader space amongst other experimental answers/paths that are worth trying.  

Some notes and corrections on my previous "favorite" solution from last post:  I actually messed up slightly on the notes "being in B-Major".  They're E-Major if anything.  Here's my thought process though: when playing only the "what's the mystery" track by itself, B sounded like the comfort 'home' note whenever it returned to it;  and 'Bear-Major' was too good of a pun to pass up; and Major is usually more whimsical/floaty than Minor, which is more serious/dramatic/grounded, based on my limited musical street smarts;  and the map-name is "B-and-B"; and when I googled B-Major it seemed to check out.  But I slightly goofed up one of the notes anyway in this regard.  It looks like the 8 notes (and most of the notes in oct17_re in general) settle in E-Major, if anything.  But regardless, anchoring it in E-Major didn't work, and anchoring it by letter A and using alphabetical notation (A=1) didn't work either.

So, then there are other rabbit holes you could go down too, and here's just a few (of which I explored partially, both before and after my previous post):

• There are 9 other tracks that are conveniently called l1 through l9.  Let's think of all the ways they can come into play...
• The Mapset has 7 maps.  Is there hidden meaning in the other maps songs/map-titles?
• The song title is "oct17_re", and does this mean something?  Does "oct." mean "octave"; does "17" mean 1-through-7 (and does that mean octaves 1-through seven, which apparently a Grand Piano has, not referring to the 7 A-G letters); What does "re" mean?" or God forbid, I Googled "Octave 17" and got a music system with 17 notes per cycle instead of 12... lol.
• The credits map has a simple song too that sounds like it could be encoding something of length 8... hmmm
• IDDT automap: there's an ordered 8 socket register in the northeast holding values 1-7 per socket; and additionally there's a mechanism of thirty chambers with 8 dynamic sectors each in the southwest - presumably used to verify the answer.  ("Why 30?, perhaps to obscure/lightly-encrypt the answer for those cheating in editors and IDDT; to imply some sort of combinatoric link that involves the numbers 8, 7 and apparently 30; to mean there are repeated digits in the answer or whether or not order matters?"... basically this is a horrible rabbit-hole to go down especially, but I have to mention it for fun)

But apparently circling back to "Anchor it by letter" and "Anchor it by key" was the right move.  After trying a couple more solutions along these lines, apparently the correct answer is a slurred version of these two: "Anchor it alphabetically, but to the letter C.  Because, uhh, classical western music likes defaulting to C-Major key" - even though oct17_re has sharps everywhere.  I mean... okay I guess...  If that's the line of reasoning, then it's kind of a jank solution if you ask me.

For the record: as far as my music knowledge goes, I guess I picked up a little bit of "music street smarts" in my teens.  At first I had a "Learn Guitar for Beginners" book, but it was mostly just "Here is sheet-music, these are notes.  Here's the fret you press for that note;  Also, guitar-chords exist; Here's sheet music exercises that gets progressively harder".  It felt like arbitary rote-learning and didn't feel intuitive, so I scrapped it.  I did continue to mess with the guitar itself though and stumbled into a few eureka moments this way, and it gave me some fundamental musical grounding that I'm proud of.

...

All that being said, the existing clues did succeed in corralling me to the music file and into a certain bandwidth of answers, all of which centered on those 8 particular notes (which I explain in my previous post).  Unless there was another thing I'm missing though, I kinda wish there was one extra piece of info to help along in that final step.  That or I'm just stoopid 🤡 

 

(post-edit june 17th: I watched Ravendesk's video.  It turns out that it actually fits into C# Minor as well as E Major, and the map clue corresponding with the C# note has an emboldened border that I didn't remember/pick-up-on.  I guess there was a small hint for the last step in the puzzle afterall)

Now that I solved the puzzle, I can finally get the remaining gems, with pride in tact too.  That was an ordeal.  Phew!

 

Oh fuck off...

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by NoisyVelvet
the forum software doesn't render bbcode correctly. one second; changing some phrasing here and there.; even more grammar; post edit note in spoiler after watching Ravendesk's vid.

[Ravendesk]

Is getting the flame required for the UV-MAX demo or not? Or these should be separate categories (with vs without flame) similar to solo-net stuff?

 

On one hand, it's part of the collectibles, on the other it does not count towards either kills, items or secrets.

 

I also assume UV-MAX requires all items, right?

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Ravendesk

[Maribo]

2 hours ago, Ravendesk said:

Is getting the flame required for the UV-MAX demo or not? Or these should be separate categories (with vs without flame) similar to solo-net stuff?

Flames won't be required, as they don't count for an item percentage, unless someone feels really strongly enough to start a discussion over an exception for this wad, I suppose. :P
By current rules, maxes for this would only require the kill percentage gems. Any extras (100% items, eternal flames) would either get placed in Max, Speed, or Other with a little notation about what the demo's purpose is. I think it'd be cool to have different category labels for this wad (and any others like it, there are 2 Nightmare wads that I know of based around item collection) specifically, but there's nothing in place at the moment.

 

Edit: if Ribbiks and GOS were feeling quite evil, they could rebrand eternal flames as secrets and quite possibly give Roasterock an aneurysm, he's been going hard with routing LOL.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Maribo

[SleepyVelvet]

It's such a weird wad for the traditional categories.  Even with the Flames, I only learned in the past couple days that there were multiple spots for them.  

[Ravendesk]

4 hours ago, Maribo said:

I think it'd be cool to have different category labels for this wad

Agree. Items count was clearly designed in this wad to be used for maxing, running this strictly under traditional categories definitions would not fulfil Jumpwad's full potential. Due to completely different routes, I personally think "all kills, secrets and items" and "all kills, secrets, items and eternal flame" would look good as separate categories.

 

That said, a couple of demos.

 

Map 05 UV-MAX (all kills and items, without flame) in 4:51.

zip: jump05-451.zip

video: https://youtu.be/nCCA6zOQe-8

 

 

Map 05 UV-Speed in 1:11.

zip: jump05spd111.zip

video: https://youtu.be/dfdc7S4ZamM

 

 

Also, I've done them both on "No Snow" difficulty, which is technically not UV, should this be HNTR-MAX then? It makes no sense to separate demo based on difficulty settings for this wad, though, as they only affect visuals. I think all of the difficulties should be considered UV for this wad, but that's also something that must be somehow explicitly stated in the rules.

 

[Maribo]

4 hours ago, Ravendesk said:

Map 05 UV-Speed in 1:11.

zip: jump05spd111.zip

video: https://youtu.be/dfdc7S4ZamM

Thanks for motivating me to stop being lazy and show this route: jump05-107.zip - has a messy ending but it's about a 1:03 or so without the fuck-ups. I'm pretty sure there's a sub-minute UV-Speed route in here somewhere, maybe with someone who's good at SR50? I can't imagine there's a route that doesn't do the long jump for the 3 gems, they're so time efficient...

 

4 hours ago, Ravendesk said:

Also, I've done them both on "No Snow" difficulty, which is technically not UV, should this be HNTR-MAX then? It makes no sense to separate demo based on difficulty settings for this wad, though, as they only affect visuals. I think all of the difficulties should be considered UV for this wad, but that's also something that must be somehow explicitly stated in the rules.

It'll probably be like NoMo demos that are recorded in a different skill but still play back in -skill 4, they'll just get a note. I plan on doing my demos for the snow-y maps in -skill 2 as well, the snow is great visually, but I play at 1080p and it causes a lot of frame drops when I'm focusing for run execution.

[Grain of Salt]

imo the following are all separate categories:

 

uv-speed: just get to the exit

uv-max: max kills and secrets, same as usual, which means all big gems but not smallgems

uv collector? collector max? idk: max kills and items, so all big and small gems

[name pending]: all big and small gems AND the flame

[Rednov]

Only the first two maps done, but brilliant and awesome the idea and the architecture.

 

Spoiler

And the jumping cat in the 'exit level screen'.

 

[Ravendesk]

On 6/4/2022 at 10:45 PM, Maribo said:

Silly UV-Speed demo of Map01 because I'm having so much fun with this wad: jump01-048.zip

My new favorite of the year, 100% certainty. Map02 feels like a direct love letter to a THPS map and it makes me want to dig them out and play through them all over again.

By the way, this is also a pacifist.

[Ravendesk]

Map 02 UV-Speed in 0:45

zip: jump02spd045.zip

video: https://youtu.be/T5wPzope_KU

 

Since no changes are planned, maybe I should create a thread in Speed Demos instead of posting them here?

 

[Maribo]

52 minutes ago, Ravendesk said:

Since no changes are planned, maybe I should create a thread in Speed Demos instead of posting them here?

Probably safe to at this point, given what GoS said. Maybe hold off on Map07 for a bit, in case any more issues are found in that map that would necessitate another update.

[Ravendesk]

17 hours ago, Maribo said:

Probably safe to at this point, given what GoS said. Maybe hold off on Map07 for a bit, in case any more issues are found in that map that would necessitate another update.

<redacted, nevermind>

Edited June 15, 2022 by Ravendesk
I was operating under false assumptions

[Ravendesk]

20 hours ago, Maribo said:

Probably safe to at this point, given what GoS said. Maybe hold off on Map07 for a bit, in case any more issues are found in that map that would necessitate another update.

Ok. Created a thread in Doom Speed Demos for Jumpwad:

 

Please post your demos there :)