Is it possible to defeat Nuts.wad by getting good?

[alackoftrust]

Or is it impossible, no matter how low your skill is?

 

Using tasbot doesn't count tho

[Kool Belzero]

no

[baja blast rd.]

Your thread does not explain what "defeat" means. You can press the exit switch easily, and you can kill every monster but the horde of cybs without too much trouble. But killing the 850 cybs and leaving with max kills requires farming homing revenant missiles for hours upon hours. Worse, that's hours on hours in-game -- but as you collect the high five-figures number of revenant missiles needed, the framerate slows to such a crawl it will take multiple weeks of playing to do that in real time. And you have to not mess up and have those missiles end up wasted. It was "difficult" even TAS, and no a human is not doing that, or punching the 850 cybs without berserk. 

[brick]

1 hour ago, alackoftrust said:

Or is it impossible, no matter how low your skill is?

Depends what you mean by "defeat". For a given definition, yes it's absolutely possible no matter your skill. I've been playing Doom since it came out and my skill with it today is fractionally better than back then; I'm pretty sure that I'm one of the least skilled players on the forum, but I can "defeat" Nuts.

 

So: do you mean "finish the level without cheating", or "max the level"? The latter I have never tried and never will, as rd mentioned it will be beyond tedious no matter the skill level. Just finish the level? I don't think I've tried with infinite height things, not in a long time at least, and that probably requires quite a bit of skill. Infinite height off? I did it earlier this week when I wasn't even trying, so it's absolutely possible with little skill, as long as you know the very basics of how Doom works.

 

First, port choice. Don't even bother with GZDoom. I love the port and use it all the time, but the way it handles actors will make this wad unplayable unless you have a monster machine. I did it on Eternity, I'm guessing most of the other purist limit-removing ports (Woof, DSDA, Crispy, etc) should work. Grab the BFG and all the ammo you can, fire a pistol shot to get everyone shooting (mostly at each other), grab an invulnerability, then run off the start platform so you can surf along the crowd as long as possible. When you can't surf anymore, BFG whoever blocks you until you can clear your way to the switch in the back. My invulnerability ran out while I was clearing the path but I didn't take enough damage to be a problem. Once you can get into the 2nd room, grab another invulnerability and try to surf as far ahead as possible, I got chain-AV jumped into the top left corner, but that wasn't a huge deal, I just started running past the Spiders (using BFG only to clear the ones blocking my path) towards the middle of that back wall (where the exit switch is), the AVs were still setting me on fire (less frequently now though) so they helped guide me to the switch, I pressed it and ended the level before that second invulnerability ran out.

 

I'm sure there are better and more optimized ways to do it, but that's the point: I was just testing out the wad to see how it would fare on Eternity, it only occurred to me to even try to reach the exit when I was halfway across the first room, and I still got it despite no preparation and no idea what I was doing, and of course my total lack of skill. Give it a shot!

Edited June 6, 2022 by brick

[Fraston]

1 hour ago, alackoftrust said:

Using tasbot doesn't count tho

That, my friend, is a massive disrespect to the effort that TAS runners go through.

No one uses a "bot" to run games. The inputs you take for granted are arduously programmed frame by frame by a human being, before being played back in real time.

[Jacek Bourne]

It is theoretically possible to uvmax it by gathering revenant rockets and guiding them into the cyberdemons however if you don't mean uvmax then it is rather easy to beat.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

If you mean "defeat" is getting to exit on any%, then yes. If you mean killing everything, then no.

I mean, if TAS can do it, then it's technically possible but it would require incredible precision, timing, luck and patience.

[Andromeda]

Just use SUPRWEP8.DEH, easy.

[alackoftrust]

14 hours ago, Fraston said:

That, my friend, is a massive disrespect to the effort that TAS runners go through.

No one uses a "bot" to run games. The inputs you take for granted are arduously programmed frame by frame by a human being, before being played back in real time.

You're right. I will apologize to tasbot.

 

It says it forgives me.

[Captain POLAND]

It's easy if you don't try to kill all the cyberdemons.

 

 

[NeedHealth]

doomspeeddemos proved you can beat nuts.wad in style

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/FrozenTriangularAppleNerfRedBlaster-TCvtQRsqet1mkRhs

[D4NUK1]

 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by D4NUK1

[Megalyth]

1 hour ago, D4NUK1 said:

Video

 

Now that's what I call "gittin' gud".

[Master O]

On 6/5/2022 at 8:01 PM, alackoftrust said:

Or is it impossible, no matter how low your skill is?

 

Using tasbot doesn't count tho

 

1) Use infighting. After taking an Invulnerability sphere, run around the sides of the first room in the map and the monsters will start fighting each other.

 

2) In the next room with all the Archviles, Cyberdemons, and Spider Masterminds, get them to infight as well.

 

3) Take an Invulnerability sphere and ride the Archvile flames to the exit.

 

4) Profit!

Edited June 7, 2022 by Master O

[Mr. Alexander]

it is possible to defeat nuts.wad, but not to get good at doom

[Gez]

There might be a way to get rid of the cyber horde mostly AFK if you use the arch-viles. If an arch-vile is pissed off at a cyberdemon, it will attack it for 20 damage per incineration. So after 200 arch-vile attack, the cyber is dead. So, show up, don't drop down, wake the cybs, go to to far end of the first area near the start so the rockets will piss off the arch-viles, then hide and wait for the archies to do their thing. When you hear the "Moorff" sound of a dead cyber, pop back up to get things rolling then go back to hiding and doing something more productive elsewhere while your computer runs the completely pointless process on its own. Repeat about 800 times. Basically the trick is to keep the archies alive as long as possible.

 

 

But really, all this is a waste of time. If you read the backstory to nuts.wad, you'll know the real way to defeat it is by playing Equinox instead.

[TimeOfDeath666]

On 6/5/2022 at 9:39 PM, Fraston said:

That, my friend, is a massive disrespect to the effort that TAS runners go through.

No one uses a "bot" to run games. The inputs you take for granted are arduously programmed frame by frame by a human being, before being played back in real time.

Effort that could be spent actually playing the game normally. TAS is the definition of a waste of time.

 

Guy 1: "Wow this video is crazy, how does he play like that?"

Guy 2: "It's TAS."

Guy 1: "Oh."

[Liberation]

18 minutes ago, TimeOfDeath666 said:

Effort that could be spent actually playing the game normally. TAS is the definition of a waste of time.

 

 

And lots of people think playing video games is a waste of time...

[Stupid Bunny]

11 minutes ago, TimeOfDeath666 said:

Effort that could be spent actually playing the game normally. TAS is the definition of a waste of time.

 

Guy 1: "Wow this video is crazy, how does he play like that?"

Guy 2: "It's TAS."

Guy 1: "Oh."

I don’t think this is a good take

 

Like part of what makes a TAS so impressive is the engineering of a playthrough that no human being could ever do, it’s an art in itself that makes for a really satisfying viewing experience and approaches this fun question of “What is the absolute theoretical limit to beating this level?” It may not be for everyone but I genuinely love seeing a speedrun where literally everything goes absolutely right in a way that could never naturally happen in a million years and yet also doesn’t do anything that isn’t technically within Doom’s capabilities—whether it actually happened organically or not. So no, it’s not a waste of time for me to watch them, and if the creator enjoyed the process of engineering it then it wasn’t for them either.

[Fraston]

17 minutes ago, TimeOfDeath666 said:

Effort that could be spent actually playing the game normally. TAS is the definition of a waste of time.

 

Guy 1: "Wow this video is crazy, how does he play like that?"

Guy 2: "It's TAS."

Guy 1: "Oh."

You’d think that a man known for his prolific output of long, hard maps would be partial to seeing the absolute fastest his maps could be beaten (no painful human error, and no bitching about RNG not being in your favor) , but I guess you, Mr. ToD, are proof that anomalies exist in this world.

[Frost-Core]

Nuts.wad ez af,  i beat it pacifist, and i have proof :

nuts.zip

[Mr Masker]

1 hour ago, TimeOfDeath666 said:

Effort that could be spent actually playing the game normally. TAS is the definition of a waste of time.

You're allowed to enjoy a video game how you like. As long as they're labelling it as "TAS" then what's the issue?

[Hitboi]

1 hour ago, TimeOfDeath666 said:

Effort that could be spent actually playing the game normally. TAS is the definition of a waste of time.

Yes, but you will not stop people from doing what's a ""waste of time"".

Even as a non-TASer, I don't care what you think, TAS speedrunners know what they're doing.

[ProgrammerPower]

I'll assume you mean maxing the level.

Theoretically, yes. But practically? I don't know anyone who's tried it (without TAS) yet. It would be very tedious (not to mention how laggy your computer would get with that many monsters activated).

[Kappes Buur]

The only certain way to play nuts.wad and left standing is by (GZDoom) Kill Monsters. :-)

[enigma101]

No, you are able to finish the level but trying to kill all the monsters would just kill the framerate faster.