2 ENEMY COMMUNITY PROJECT [DEVELOPMENT THREAD]

[El Jeff]

On 7/24/2022 at 11:39 AM, ONETAPPYBOI said:

@Thatonespymain Even though it's prohibited, i ask you to reserve the slot 01 for me since the guy making it left and we REALLY need a MAP01. Shotgunners and imps (don't forget to mark as a pair already used twice)

yeah sure

[ONETAPPYBOI]

Apparently you can't delete posts on doomworld, so this stays here forever as a marker of my mistake

Edited July 25, 2022 by ONETAPPYBOI

[ONETAPPYBOI]

2 hours ago, TheOxingey said:

ok, i think i finally finished my map, i fixed errors that you told me about, updated some visuals and rebalanced the combat a little bit so its still a power fantasy, but without bfg spam bullsh*t. tell me if i missed some homs and errors

satisfactory.zip

in the final fight you can walk through the fake wall to the area pinkies teleport from. I don't think you were supposed to be able to do that, and it reveals yet another missing texture

[TheOxingey]

1 minute ago, ONETAPPYBOI said:

in the final fight you can walk through the fake wall to the area pinkies teleport from. I don't think you were supposed to be able to do that, and it reveals yet another missing texture

ahh crap, i forgot to make it impassable... fixed it and fixed that weird hom effect near it 

satisfactory.zip

[Rabbid]

I plan on remaking some of my map with the suggestions and the help! and honestly I'm surprised I forgot about lower unpegging XD thanks everybody!

[TheOxingey]

1 hour ago, Rabbid said:

I plan on remaking some of my map with the suggestions and the help! and honestly I'm surprised I forgot about lower unpegging XD thanks everybody!

first suggestion: make this map possible with 100% kills, i mean, i think its possible but it would be so boring...

 

also you can pickup a chaingun thru wall right here

[Rabbid]

9 minutes ago, TheOxingey said:

first suggestion: make this map possible with 100% kills, i mean, i think its possible but it would be so boring...

 

also you can pickup a chaingun thru wall right here

I'm doing that XD and well I don't really know how to fix that...or atleast without breaking the map...

Edited July 26, 2022 by Rabbid

[Rabbid]

Update I fixed it

[Death Bear]

Overstayed Welcome by Death Bear
Monsters: Former Sergeants and Cacodemons
Tested with: GZDOOM and PRBOOM+
Midi: Umbra by Psyrus
Sky: From Mek's

Changelog: (v2) Texture lump for sky should work now.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Death Bear

[Doomy__Doom]

16 minutes ago, Death Bear said:

Overstayed Welcome by Death Bear
Monsters: Former Sergeants and Cacodemons
Tested with: GZDOOM and PRBOOM+
Midi: Umbra by Psyrus
Sky: From Mek's

R_TextureNumForName: SKY3 not found on prboom+ 2.6.2/dsda-doom 0.24.3.

You didn't build texture lump with Doom2.wad as base, need to "import from base" when making texture lump.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Doomy__Doom

[ONETAPPYBOI]

15 hours ago, Death Bear said:

Overstayed Welcome by Death Bear
Monsters: Former Sergeants and Cacodemons
Tested with: GZDOOM and PRBOOM+
Midi: Umbra by Psyrus
Sky: From Mek's

I really like the graphics of this one, we need more hell levels like this one. What i don't like is the shotgunner trap at the start, reminiscent of the one in E4M1, but at least in E4M1, you had a shotgun; in this map, you have to kill them with your pistol.

 

A much bigger problem is the lack of sense of directionality and progress in this map. The map is a constant cycle of Going in a random direction→Triggering a trap→Killing everyone→"Okay, everyone is dead, where do I go now?"→Repeat. I ended up just wandering about in a random direction hoping that i would find a switch or a key.

[SuperPecanMan]

Here's my submission. The map is currently in the MAP23 slot which hopefully will make it easier to compile later.

hotdogcombo.zip

 

Name: Hot Dog Combo (potential alternates: Texas BBQ, Pig Roast)

Monsters: Spider Masterminds and Pinkies
Tested with: PRBOOM+ (I tried loading it in GZDOOM but ran out of time to finish testing this morning. I noticed that the spiderdemons were much less likely to get paralyzed and eaten by pinkies in this sourceport, not sure if it needs to be re-balanced with that in mind. I think it's way easier in PRBOOM+ comparatively as a result.)
Midi: MIDI rendition of "Man in the Box" by Alice in Chains. (Honestly, I think the original track for MAP23 might be better.)

Sky: None, I think the default works pretty well here.

 

hotdogcombo.zip

Edited July 27, 2022 by SuperPecanMan
screenshots

[TheOxingey]

45 minutes ago, SuperPecanMan said:

Here's my submission. The map is currently in the MAP23 slot which hopefully will make it easier to compile later.

hotdogcombo.zip

 

Name: Hot Dog Combo (potential alternates: Texas BBQ, Pig Roast)

Monsters: Spider Masterminds and Pinkies
Tested with: PRBOOM+ (I tried loading it in GZDOOM but ran out of time to finish testing this morning. I noticed that the spiderdemons were much less likely to get paralyzed and eaten by pinkies in this sourceport, not sure if it needs to be re-balanced with that in mind. I think it's way easier in PRBOOM+ comparatively as a result.)
Midi: MIDI rendition of "Man in the Box" by Alice in Chains. (Honestly, I think the original track for MAP23 might be better.)

Sky: None, I think the default works pretty well here.

 

hotdogcombo.zip

gzdoom moment

[Death Bear]

4 hours ago, ONETAPPYBOI said:

I really like the graphics of this one, we need more hell levels like this one. What i don't like is the shotgunner trap at the start, reminiscent of the one in E4M1, but at least in E4M1, you had a shotgun; in this map, you have to kill them with your pistol.

 

A much bigger problem is the lack of sense of directionality and progress in this map. The map is a constant cycle of Going in a random direction→Triggering a trap→Killing everyone→"Okay, everyone is dead, where do I go now?"→Repeat. I ended up just wandering about in a random direction hoping that i would find a switch or a key.

Interesting! I'd have loved to see a video or something of your experience. I feel like this kind of blasts the map and would love to hear from more people if they shared that experience. I get a mapper might get unexpected responses, but I'm more interested to know if this feedback justifies drastic change.

I will say:
 

Spoiler

- A shotgun literally lowers on a pillar in front of you at the start, and you can access it before firing a shot.
- The bars that lower at the beginning open you to the interconnected hallways, where you can access the chaingun, open into the second area, lead you to where the exit is, and lead you to the next logical point of progression: the balcony where you raise the platforms to the yellow key.
- All switches have functions that place you in view of what it does, and in most cases, there are enemies to telegraph it.

However, this was kind of an experiment in interconnectedness I haven't messed with much, so maybe I missed the mark. So far my other playtesters didn't share this experience.

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Death Bear

[Death Bear]

20 hours ago, Doomy__Doom said:

R_TextureNumForName: SKY3 not found on prboom+ 2.6.2/dsda-doom 0.24.3.

You didn't build texture lump with Doom2.wad as base, need to "import from base" when making texture lump.

Ah, that's my bad. Thanks.

EDIT: I have changed my original post to reflect the change I made and is now V2. Should work now. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Death Bear

[DoctorNuriel]

2 hours ago, Death Bear said:

Interesting! I'd have loved to see a video or something of your experience. I feel like this kind of blasts the map and would love to hear from more people if they shared that experience. I get a mapper might get unexpected responses, but I'm more interested to know if this feedback justifies drastic change.

I will say:
 

  Hide contents

- A shotgun literally lowers on a pillar in front of you at the start, and you can access it before firing a shot.
- The bars that lower at the beginning open you to the interconnected hallways, where you can access the chaingun, open into the second area, lead you to where the exit is, and lead you to the next logical point of progression: the balcony where you raise the platforms to the yellow key.
- All switches have functions that place you in view of what it does, and in most cases, there are enemies to telegraph it.

However, this was kind of an experiment in interconnectedness I haven't messed with much, so maybe I missed the mark. So far my other playtesters didn't share this experience.

 

I didn't have too much trouble with navigating the map personally, though it didn't feel intuitive to drop and sprint into the lava to get to the red key area. Not a big deal tho, as a whole I really liked the map and you leveraged the combination of hitscan sniping and the cacos' mobility well.

[DoctorNuriel]

it's not quite done yet, but here's a preview of my MAP09 - "Deus Ex Cathedra" :)

[Death Bear]

9 minutes ago, DoctorNuriel said:

I didn't have too much trouble with navigating the map personally, though it didn't feel intuitive to drop and sprint into the lava to get to the red key area. Not a big deal tho, as a whole I really liked the map and you leveraged the combination of hitscan sniping and the cacos' mobility well.

That's fair. I'll think about how to make that a little more obvious.

[ONETAPPYBOI]

5 hours ago, SuperPecanMan said:

Here's my submission. The map is currently in the MAP23 slot which hopefully will make it easier to compile later.

hotdogcombo.zip

 

Name: Hot Dog Combo (potential alternates: Texas BBQ, Pig Roast)

Monsters: Spider Masterminds and Pinkies
Tested with: PRBOOM+ (I tried loading it in GZDOOM but ran out of time to finish testing this morning. I noticed that the spiderdemons were much less likely to get paralyzed and eaten by pinkies in this sourceport, not sure if it needs to be re-balanced with that in mind. I think it's way easier in PRBOOM+ comparatively as a result.)
Midi: MIDI rendition of "Man in the Box" by Alice in Chains. (Honestly, I think the original track for MAP23 might be better.)

Sky: None, I think the default works pretty well here.

 

hotdogcombo.zip

Pretty much my only problem with the map is that on UV there's just not enough ammo. Like i seriously had to pistol 3 spider masterminds to death, which i have never done before and most likely will never do again.

[SuperPecanMan]

8 minutes ago, ONETAPPYBOI said:

Pretty much my only problem with the map is that on UV there's just not enough ammo. Like i seriously had to pistol 3 spider masterminds to death, which i have never done before and most likely will never do again.

 

Any chance you have a demo or could point out where you had ammo troubles? 

[ONETAPPYBOI]

Just now, SuperPecanMan said:

 

Any chance you have a demo or could point out where you had ammo troubles? 

 

fda-2enemy23.rar

[SuperPecanMan]

23 minutes ago, ONETAPPYBOI said:

 

fda-2enemy23.rar

 

I think I see what I'd like to change based on this, thanks!

Question/notes (spoiler tagged just in case):

Spoiler

I think I'd really like to add a method to get up close and personal with the spiders who have the high ground in the big arena, that way the SSG can be used to dispatch them more reasonably. Also, that far into the map I don't want the player to run out of shotgun ammo so I'm gonna add some more there.

By any chance, did you know the chaingun was boobytrapped (and decided it wasn't worth it) or do you just instinctively avoid optional teleporters?

 

[ONETAPPYBOI]

2 minutes ago, SuperPecanMan said:

 

I think I see what I'd like to change based on this, thanks!

Question/notes (spoiler tagged just in case):

  Hide contents

I think I'd really like to add a method to get up close and personal with the spiders who have the high ground in the big arena, that way the SSG can be used to dispatch them more reasonably. Also, that far into the map I don't want the player to run out of shotgun ammo so I'm gonna add some more there.

By any chance, did you know the chaingun was boobytrapped (and decided it wasn't worth it) or do you just instinctively avoid optional teleporters?

 

THERE WAS A CHAINGUN?

[El Jeff]

I changed some rules and made it so you can only change your monster pair twice. i did this because i struggle to come up with good encounters with revenants and pain elementals

[El Jeff]

On 7/26/2022 at 7:19 PM, Death Bear said:

Overstayed Welcome by Death Bear
Monsters: Former Sergeants and Cacodemons
Tested with: GZDOOM and PRBOOM+
Midi: Umbra by Psyrus
Sky: From Mek's

Changelog: (v2) Texture lump for sky should work now.

I really like this map, good work man :)

[Rabbid]

ah good to know

[Emperor S P O O N]

This seems interesting...

@Thatonespymain I'm in, my two monsters are Revenants and Cyberdemons.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Emperor S P O O N

[Maxwellk421]

@Thatonespymain Ayo, count me in- I've got some ideas for an Archie/Chaingunner combo

[El Jeff]

17 hours ago, Emperor S P O O N said:

This seems interesting...

@Thatonespymain I'm in, my two monsters are Revenants and Cyberdemons.

Tell civcord i said hi, it's me el jeff.

[SuperPecanMan]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:32 PM, ONETAPPYBOI said:

Wow, i almost forgot that i have my own submission for this project.

I have updatedit with some general improvements: painrchvilenowait.rar

Full changelog here:

  Hide contents

• Added 2 crosses to the cross-shaped room area for extra detail;
• Added 8 stimpacks to the final fight;
• Replaced arch-viles with pain elementals in Rocket Launcher trap;
• Fixed a bug where pain elementals would spawn too early in the Plasma Gun trap;
• Replaced 2 pain elementals with arch-viles in the Plasma Gun trap;
• Fixed a possible softlock in the final fight; the teleporter ou will now open automatically after 60 seconds;
• Aligned textures on some gravestones properly.

 

 

So my version of PrBoom+ (2.5.1.5) didn't like this map, turns out it's just 2 years old and doesn't support UMPAINFO. I played through it in GZDOOM but tested in DSDA later just to check and it loaded fine, just a heads-up for anybody else who has an issue. I just don't have a demo as a result.

 

I liked this map overall, ran out of ammo a few times (archies ressing archies can really put the squeeze on your supplies) but I'm personally OK with that. A few (MOSTLY VERY MINOR) things bothered me slightly, but I can understand why you did them:
 

Spoiler

1. The crusher that lowers when revealing the first non-secret arch-vile, It didn't kill me and I ended up stuck in place. Theoretically if you get lucky enough with the stuns, you could kill the arch-vile and just be stuck there forever. Not sure if the ceiling needs to crush, seems like blocking it with your body would be disadvantageous.

2. If you teleport back to the start before killing the arch-viles guarding the red key, you have to trial and error to see if they wait to lock on (and dive into the pit so you can roll the dice again if they do) to you on any subsequent runs, a second bit of cover would be appreciated.

3. For a map with maze in the name, there was only one very short segment that felt like a maze to me. And it was only pain elementals.

 

4. Trying to shoot the arch-viles that get revealed when you trigger the plasma trap is extremely difficult. I wasted a lot of ammo waiting for them to get into my line of sight and subsequently from them dodging as well.

 

5. I'm not sure if I ever actually used anything that required the blue key. I assume grabbing the plasma gun lowered the blue pillars, just wish there were a switch or something that required the blue key so I actively felt like I used it.

 

6. The random underwater segment before you go up the stairs to the graveyard seems kind of unnecessary, unless that's somehow supposed to be useful in a fight?

 

7. The blue torch is a complete red herring, I had to waste one of my last 2 shells to check if it was guarding a secret.

 

8. I was really looking forward to fighting a giant wave of arch-viles after picking up the BFG, the lack of such a fight was a disappointment to me.