2 ENEMY COMMUNITY PROJECT [DEVELOPMENT THREAD]

[ONETAPPYBOI]

(not an attack, i love HL games)

[ONETAPPYBOI]

  On 8/2/2022 at 7:37 PM, Shawn said:

 

Thank you for the feedback !

I agree with the empty starting area, I'll rework it and add more details.
It was fun seeing you avoid the chainsaw and I could feel your frustration in the puzzle part. Maybe I'll think about adding more subtle clues about what to do in this section. You even opened the second secret in a way I didn't anticipate. Thank you for the replay, it's a gold mine for me.

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I rewatched the demo, and, looking back, probably the biggest problem with the puzzle is that the teleportation mechanic isn't clear enough, maybe you can divide the pillar into 3 sectors with each bringing you to a different section. Also i noticed that i forgot to compliment the midi choice in my initial review, so i'm doing it now.

[DoctorNuriel]

  On 8/2/2022 at 7:43 PM, ONETAPPYBOI said:

So to even get this level to run i had to edit it: I rebuilt nodes using ZDBSP and i changed the MAPINFO to the UMAPINFO. But I'll say, the time i spent editing the level was worth it since this is actually a pretty cool map. I usually say one or two sentences about graphics if they're good and plenty more if they're bad, and this level is in the former category. That said, there are a few STUCCO textures that don't look like they're supposed to be there, so maybe check that. 

Onto the gameplay problems: 

1) You can actually skip like half the map if you SR50 into the SSG, then you run past the chaingunner trap and can immediately pick up the red key;

2) Speaking of the red key, because of the differences between how GZDoom handles linedef actions and how DSDA does so, the red key lift doesn't work and so the player is stuck in the pit;

3) Can someone count how many times have i already told mappers TO NOT FORGET TO MARK LINEDEFS IN FRONT OF SECRETS AS 1-SIDED ON AN AUTOMAP SERIOUSLY YOU CAN FIND ALL OF THIS MAP'S SECRETS JUST BY LOOKING AT THE AUTOMAP GODDAMIT;
4) The 4 revenant trap in the RL secret feels too cheap and RNG-based compared to the rest of the map; unless you know that it's coming and prefire rocket launcher into it your run is decided entirely by if the revenants fire homing missiles or regular ones, since the hallway has 0 cover and is too narrow to make the missiles fly around you and into the wall. 

 

Since you mentioned that you have never mapped for Boom, and i have pretty much only mapped for Boom/vanilla (outside of one brief stint with MBF21 and UDMF), i have decided to fix the nodes, UMAPINFO, and glitch №2 for you: 2enemycp_doctornuriel.rar

 

And here is the FDA: fda-2enemy09.rar

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Thanks so much for the feedback and for fixing up the wad! The STUCCO and the option to do a SR50 sprint to the SSG are very much intended :)

Edited August 3, 2022 by DoctorNuriel

[El Jeff]

  On 8/1/2022 at 6:16 PM, ONETAPPYBOI said:

@Thatonespymain Mark the shotgunner-imp pair as already used twice.

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K

[ONETAPPYBOI]

  On 8/3/2022 at 9:33 AM, Thatonespymain said:

K

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(proceeds to not mark the shotgunner-imp pair as already used twice)

[El Jeff]

  On 8/3/2022 at 6:34 PM, ONETAPPYBOI said:

(proceeds to not mark the shotgunner-imp pair as already used twice)

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Sorry i'm tired i'll get on that in a bit

[Engired]

  On 7/25/2022 at 4:02 PM, TheOxingey said:

ahh crap, i forgot to make it impassable... fixed it and fixed that weird hom effect near it 

satisfactory.zipFetching info...

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I noticed that when replaying your map, you can just walk around this piece near the start of the map, and finish the map in about a minute. There's already a tiny sector on the edge, I assume it just wasn't noticed.

 

[marxr]

Can i have a slot?

[El Jeff]

  On 8/6/2022 at 9:13 AM, marxr said:

Can i have a slot?

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Yeah sure, what enemies?

Edited August 6, 2022 by Thatonespymain

[marxr]

Pain Elementals and Cacos seems to be original.

[El Jeff]

  On 8/6/2022 at 11:41 AM, marxr said:

Pain Elementals and Cacos seems to be original.

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Yeah sure

[Shawn]

Thanks to the great feedback from @ONETAPPYBOI I made some changes to my map to make the puzzle part a bit clearer. I also changed the starting area to make it more of a tutorial about shooting switches.

 

Changelog v2
------------

* Completely reworked the starting area.
+ Added a lift at the end of the map to make backtracking possible if you want to explore for secrets.
+ Added "subtle" clues in the puzzle area about how to utilise the teleporter. Made one switch easier to see.
- Removed the Chainsaw.

Dissolution of the Flesh v2.zipFetching info...

 

v3

---

* Corrected a visual bug in software mode.

Dissolution of the Flesh v3.zipFetching info...

 

v5

---

- Removed several switches.
- Removed a lot of unnecessary items. 100% items is now a lot easier.
* Made the Chaingun accessible a lot earlier.
* Corrected a cheese method at the circular teleporter puzzle.
* Corrected a monster closet that never worked. 100% kill is now possible.
+ Added bright blinking lights to indicate switches.
+ Added torches to guide player along the main path.
+ Added stairs that activate near the end of the level to make backtracking/searching for secrets easier.

Dissolution of the Flesh V5.zipFetching info...

Edited April 7, 2023 by Shawn
V5

[marxr]

Can i rather have imps instead of elementals?

[Codename_Delta]

Sadly I'm gonna have to relinquish my slot, as I'm not gonna have enough time after I get my laptop back to really make any kind of map that meets my standards. :(

 

I'll stick around though!

[ONETAPPYBOI]

I don't think i will be able to fill slot 53 myself, i am still only about 60% done with MAP01.

[El Jeff]

  On 8/7/2022 at 5:03 PM, marxr said:

Can i rather have imps instead of elementals?

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Yeah sure

[Emperor S P O O N]

One last question: In regards to your 5-custom-textures limit, do animated textures count as one texture or does each frame count as its own texture?

Edited August 11, 2022 by Emperor S P O O N

[Emperor S P O O N]

Tell you what: I'll upload the current version of the wad, then include additional textures at important spots if you'd count animated textures as one texture. It needs some extensive Co-op playtesting because I wasn't able to do it myself.
 

Map Name:		"Rockets... Everywhere"
Map Author:		Emperor S P O O N
Complevel:		9 (Boom v2.01)
Custom Sky:		"INTSKY09" from Mechadon's Box 'o' Skies
Custom Midi:		"Bone Man Do Be Ballin'" by Emperor S P O O N
Additional Resources:
	"WFALL(1-4)" from 32in24_15_tex_v2
	
Tested Source Ports:
	GZDoom 		version 4.7.1
	DSDA-Doom 	version 0.24.2
	PrBoom+ 	version 2.6.2

RockEvery.zipFetching info...

Edited August 11, 2022 by Emperor S P O O N

[ONETAPPYBOI]

  On 8/11/2022 at 6:36 PM, Emperor S P O O N said:

Tell you what: I'll upload the current version of the wad, then include additional textures at important spots if you'd count animated textures as one texture. It needs some extensive Co-op playtesting because I wasn't able to do it myself.
 

Map Name:		"Rockets... Everywhere"
Map Author:		Emperor S P O O N
Complevel:		9 (Boom v2.01)
Custom Sky:		"INTSKY09" from Mechadon's Box 'o' Skies
Custom Midi:		"Bone Man Do Be Ballin'" by Emperor S P O O N
Additional Resources:
	"WFALL(1-4)" from 32in24_15_tex_v2
	
Tested Source Ports:
	GZDoom 		version 4.7.1
	DSDA-Doom 	version 0.24.2
	PrBoom+ 	version 2.6.2

RockEvery.zipFetching info...

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It seems to me that the BFG secret is required, because i don't know how would you have enough ammo to kill all those revenants and cyberdemons. I am not sure what was the intended way to beat your map, so here's my FDA: fda-2enemy59.rar, maybe i missed something obvious.

[Emperor S P O O N]

  On 8/11/2022 at 7:52 PM, ONETAPPYBOI said:

It seems to me that the BFG secret is required, because i don't know how would you have enough ammo to kill all those revenants and cyberdemons. I am not sure what was the intended way to beat your map, so here's my FDA: fda-2enemy59.rar, maybe i missed something obvious.

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It just takes a bit of practice to get right. You can beat it without the BFG, believe me. I'm not all that great at playing Doom, but I don't make maps that I can't beat or at least haven't been able to beat before. I made sure to playtest the hell out of this map before even considering posting it here.

Here's the trick to this map: There's a crusher behind that last arena which is triggered by that green switch which also prevents the cybers from teleporting into the "mosh-pit" as I like to call it. Once you teleport to that mosh pit, if you can't hit that green switch in time the cybers will be allowed to teleport into the mosh pit which is what happened to you. The map's designed to be sort-of a playground of whatever you want to do in order to beat it but not so much so that it's a cake-walk.

You could, also, try gathering enough rev-rockets along that long bridge in order to kill the cyberdemon(s) before-hand making that exit much easier to handle, but that's slightly risky and time-consuming.

[Doomy__Doom]

  On 8/11/2022 at 8:42 PM, Emperor S P O O N said:

ou can beat it without the BFG, believe me

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It's definitely very beatable without BFG in more ways than one. Got a weirdly stuck rev on a demo towards the end:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GLWL3xHrR9AD2xNBKdUM8Ijbly4Yjus1/view?usp=sharing

[Emperor S P O O N]

  On 8/11/2022 at 9:19 PM, Doomy__Doom said:

Got a weirdly stuck rev on a demo towards the end:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GLWL3xHrR9AD2xNBKdUM8Ijbly4Yjus1/view?usp=sharing

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Ah, I saw that. I think it's caused by some linedef skipping that occasionally occurs if you hug the edge of the bridge too close. The obvious fix would be to install railings on the bridge, although that might cause some trouble both texture wise and gameplay wise. I might, however, install just some support posts at each end of the trigger linedefs. That way, it encourages players to stay away from the edge AND doesn't mess with the current texture scheme.

I'll re-upload the wad with these features soon.

[Emperor S P O O N]

Done.

Changelog
- Added posts intermittently along arcing bridge to prevent linedef skipping caused by running along the edge of the bridge

RockEvery.zipFetching info...

 

Still needs extensive Co-op playtesting, by the way.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Emperor S P O O N

[Doomy__Doom]

Alright, I can finally put an RC out: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wRLwUMmSPvAF_Y5bW0rhl_QUzVNeYAEE/view?usp=sharing

 

Map name: Corrupting Heart

Slot: 35

Midi: Kaguya by AD_79

Sky: from Mek's box'o'skies

Tested with: dsda 0.24.3, prboom+ 2.6.2 (-complevel 9)

Difficulties: Yes, as follows

  Reveal hidden contents

- HNTR - 210 enemies, key enemies removed/downgraded in some fights, generous health/armor, very effective secrets.

- HMP - 243 enemies, less effective secrets, less ammo/hp overall.

- UV - 295 enemies, downgraded secrets, ammo can get scarce if you whiff too much, "outside" platforming sections gets no pity.

 

"Misery" option brings enthusiast-grade platforming and much tighter space during fight III. It is not required to max the level on any difficulty.

The map is non-linear, so the exact difficulty may vary depending on the order of encounters.

Co-op support: untested. I made sure all areas can be entered at leisure and looped over. Some extra ammo and key pickups like berserks/pre-fight megas, no extra enemies - you could try to parallel fights I guess.

 

P.S. I'm going on a trip for about a week, likely won't be able to fix the map if something comes up during that time.

 

[ONETAPPYBOI]

  On 8/12/2022 at 7:30 PM, Doomy__Doom said:

Alright, I can finally put an RC out: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wRLwUMmSPvAF_Y5bW0rhl_QUzVNeYAEE/view?usp=sharing

 

Map name: Corrupting Heart

Slot: 35

Midi: Kaguya by AD_79

Sky: from Mek's box'o'skies

Tested with: dsda 0.24.3, prboom+ 2.6.2 (-complevel 9)

Difficulties: Yes, as follows

  Reveal hidden contents

- HNTR - 210 enemies, key enemies removed/downgraded in some fights, generous health/armor, very effective secrets.

- HMP - 243 enemies, less effective secrets, less ammo/hp overall.

- UV - 295 enemies, downgraded secrets, ammo can get scarce if you whiff too much, "outside" platforming sections gets no pity.

 

"Misery" option brings enthusiast-grade platforming and much tighter space during fight III. It is not required to max the level on any difficulty.

The map is non-linear, so the exact difficulty may vary depending on the order of encounters.

Co-op support: untested. I made sure all areas can be entered at leisure and looped over. Some extra ammo and key pickups like berserks/pre-fight megas, no extra enemies - you could try to parallel fights I guess.

 

P.S. I'm going on a trip for about a week, likely won't be able to fix the map if something comes up during that time.

 

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I may be doing something wrong but i haven't found a way to progress past the first platforming section. FDA: fda-2enemy35.rar

[Doomy__Doom]

  On 8/13/2022 at 5:42 PM, ONETAPPYBOI said:

I may be doing something wrong but i haven't found a way to progress past the first platforming section

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I don't have means to watch a demo atm, so I'm going to guess: if you're stuck on the initial pinky - it's a TP destination puzzle. The inital vista is meant to serve as a clue. On HMP/HNTR you can just kill the pinky regardless and progress platforming as far as possible, then you'll see pity teleporters lower and next to them there will be more clues how to progress.

Full solution:

  Reveal hidden contents

You have to block the destination marked by same floor+candle (can be seen on the starting view of the dead doomguy+from the couch), forcing the pinky to TP to the next area, lowering the lift for you to proceed into a shootable gargoyle (the unlit one). On HMP/HNTR progressing up to the lift will lower pity teleporters, so you can take a dive for a visible rad suit followed by a blue potion trail into the next section's now open pity.

It's hard for me to tell if this is too subtle of a clue (as usual with puzzles since I know the answer beforehand), I guess worst case I can just add a backup pinky to the lift segment.

 

[ONETAPPYBOI]

  On 8/13/2022 at 9:43 PM, Doomy__Doom said:

I don't have means to watch a demo atm, so I'm going to guess: if you're stuck on the initial pinky - it's a TP destination puzzle. The inital vista is meant to serve as a clue. On HMP/HNTR you can just kill the pinky regardless and progress platforming as far as possible, then you'll see pity teleporters lower and next to them there will be more clues how to progress.

Full solution:

  Reveal hidden contents

You have to block the destination marked by same floor+candle (can be seen on the starting view of the dead doomguy+from the couch), forcing the pinky to TP to the next area, lowering the lift for you to proceed into a shootable gargoyle (the unlit one). On HMP/HNTR progressing up to the lift will lower pity teleporters, so you can take a dive for a visible rad suit followed by a blue potion trail into the next section's now open pity.

It's hard for me to tell if this is too subtle of a clue (as usual with puzzles since I know the answer beforehand), I guess worst case I can just add a backup pinky to the lift segment.

 

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i never thought that that was a puzzle. i will try again

[ONETAPPYBOI]

  On 8/12/2022 at 7:30 PM, Doomy__Doom said:

Alright, I can finally put an RC out: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wRLwUMmSPvAF_Y5bW0rhl_QUzVNeYAEE/view?usp=sharing

 

Map name: Corrupting Heart

Slot: 35

Midi: Kaguya by AD_79

Sky: from Mek's box'o'skies

Tested with: dsda 0.24.3, prboom+ 2.6.2 (-complevel 9)

Difficulties: Yes, as follows

  Reveal hidden contents

- HNTR - 210 enemies, key enemies removed/downgraded in some fights, generous health/armor, very effective secrets.

- HMP - 243 enemies, less effective secrets, less ammo/hp overall.

- UV - 295 enemies, downgraded secrets, ammo can get scarce if you whiff too much, "outside" platforming sections gets no pity.

 

"Misery" option brings enthusiast-grade platforming and much tighter space during fight III. It is not required to max the level on any difficulty.

The map is non-linear, so the exact difficulty may vary depending on the order of encounters.

Co-op support: untested. I made sure all areas can be entered at leisure and looped over. Some extra ammo and key pickups like berserks/pre-fight megas, no extra enemies - you could try to parallel fights I guess.

 

P.S. I'm going on a trip for about a week, likely won't be able to fix the map if something comes up during that time.

 

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So i tried playing this map again. The puzzle has 0 clues and forces the player to look up a walkthrough. After that, you get to the part that was clearly influenced by sunlust map 28. The red key part is pretty easy, the yellow key part is tougher but can be cheesed (unless that was the intended way, in which case, wow). The blue key part... Maybe it was just like the initial puzzle, where the intended way to progress is not communicated clearly to the player, but i found it an RNG-savescumming hell (The first fight). Definitely check the demo to see if you could guide the player better. 

The inescapable pits are clearly intentional and so i won't criticize that. I will criticize the fact that you cannot tell at a glance which pits are escapable and which aren't. Hell, the one inside the donut in the 1st blue key fight doesn't even look like a damaging floor at all. Oh, and the inescapable pits do 10 damage, prolonging the player's death. Would be nice if they dealt 20.

The graphics were extremely good, however, there was a number of surprisingly obvious misaligned/wrong textures, such as:

  Reveal hidden contents

The MIDI was actually nice and the sky was too basic for my taste, i will once again promote the NIGHTSKY texture from my own wad.

FDA: fda-2enemy35a2.rar Note: i used keyframes as makeshift saves, so, if you think that I've died and failed platforming a lot, don't worry, it's actually much worse.

 

(it's not letting me remove the bottom image for some reason so just ignore it)

Edited August 14, 2022 by ONETAPPYBOI
(it's not letting me remove the bottom image for some reason so just ignore it)

[Doomy__Doom]

  On 8/14/2022 at 5:58 PM, ONETAPPYBOI said:

So i tried playing this map again

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Alright, I watched the demo.

 

Wrt starting puzzle - I will replace it with something that tests only platforming skill, better that way.

 

Wrt 10% floor - starting area is potentially escapable on HMP/HNTR, so I went for 10%. I guess I can go the extra mile and reconfigure water % based on difficulty/progression if I have some time to spare.

 

Wrt YK cheese - since you can do fights in any order, coming to chessboard fight with guns generally makes it super easy. The floor raise is a prevention measure for berserk-only version, since it's very easy to cram yourself in a corner and not have to worry about the gimmick. I guess I should either lock II and III until I is done or add a pusher to force player into the field regardless. I'll try different stuff to see what's better.

 

Wrt BK fight - I will add a switch+fake walls to start the fight manually and give player time to study the setpiece (really should've done that before release), but beyond that it's on the player to analyse options and figure out the right strategy for consistency. Idk if I want replacement revs to be a thing in this fight, I'll give that some more thought.

 

Wrt textures - The sky was chosen before any of the ideas on the visuals came to life, I should probably sift through some more options. A cleanup pass on textures is probably somewhere down the line, I've had UDB and nodebuilder disagree with my ideas about this map and do some funky stuff enough times that any big geometry change is a hard backup moment. I just found marble stucture randomly offset all textures at one point, those misalignments are probably leftovers from that.

 

I guess I'll have a new version by next weekend, barring RL obligations getting in the way.

[ONETAPPYBOI]

  On 8/14/2022 at 9:00 PM, Doomy__Doom said:

Alright, I watched the demo.

 

Wrt starting puzzle - I will replace it with something that tests only platforming skill, better that way.

 

Wrt 10% floor - starting area is potentially escapable on HMP/HNTR, so I went for 10%. I guess I can go the extra mile and reconfigure water % based on difficulty/progression if I have some time to spare.

 

Wrt YK cheese - since you can do fights in any order, coming to chessboard fight with guns generally makes it super easy. The floor raise is a prevention measure for berserk-only version, since it's very easy to cram yourself in a corner and not have to worry about the gimmick. I guess I should either lock II and III until I is done or add a pusher to force player into the field regardless. I'll try different stuff to see what's better.

 

Wrt BK fight - I will add a switch+fake walls to start the fight manually and give player time to study the setpiece (really should've done that before release), but beyond that it's on the player to analyse options and figure out the right strategy for consistency. Idk if I want replacement revs to be a thing in this fight, I'll give that some more thought.

 

Wrt textures - The sky was chosen before any of the ideas on the visuals came to life, I should probably sift through some more options. A cleanup pass on textures is probably somewhere down the line, I've had UDB and nodebuilder disagree with my ideas about this map and do some funky stuff enough times that any big geometry change is a hard backup moment. I just found marble stucture randomly offset all textures at one point, those misalignments are probably leftovers from that.

 

I guess I'll have a new version by next weekend, barring RL obligations getting in the way.

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P.S. is the fact that you can make the revs not wake up in the YK fight intentional?