2 ENEMY COMMUNITY PROJECT [DEVELOPMENT THREAD]

[scwiba]

3 hours ago, Doomy__Doom said:

Alright, I came up with a slotting draft:

 

I have no idea what I'm doing btw, so feel free to suggest improvements. Sorry for double post, but I figure getting this conversation going is important enough.

Whether you know what you're doing or not, putting this many maps in any kind of order is an impressive feat. I think your order is a great place to start from, and I'll second your vote for map04 as a good introduction map. Personally I would still push map01 back a slot or two, and probably move 56 closer to the start. Also slightly confused by all the SS maps being right in the middle.

[Doomy__Doom]

10 hours ago, scwiba said:

Personally I would still push map01 back a slot or two, and probably move 56 closer to the start. Also slightly confused by all the SS maps being right in the middle.

Hmm, I can think of 2 ways:

1) shuffle top 5 like this: 04-45-55-49-01. I'd like to keep 45->55 transition because it ends by entering a dark cavey thing outdoors and then you emerge from a cave. 56 stays where it is because it ends in a teleporter, so we can peacefully go to heck in slot 08.

2) Just swap 01 and 56. They both end in teleporters and work for transition to 08. EDIT: nvm 01 and 08 are both shotgunner-imp maps, they should not be adjacent.

10 hours ago, scwiba said:

Also slightly confused by all the SS maps being right in the middle. 

The idea behind that one is - you explore some sort of city facility in 16 that ends in a lift down, so you find yourself in SS base and it gets progressively more hellish util you go throught fireblue ending in 42 and end up in heck again. And then the next few maps cleanse the hitscan overload: 07 is vibrant and punchy, 26 is dark and moody, and 22 is the ammo conservation puzzle.

If that sounds like a terrible idea, more abstract/hell-connected 64 and 42 can go as breathers in latter half and 31 somewhere in the first 15 I guess.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Doomy__Doom

[El Jeff]

14 hours ago, Doomy__Doom said:

Alright, I came up with a slotting draft:

  Hide contents

04 - cg-rev, techbase, short/punchy
01 - shot-imp, techbase, exploration, long
49 - imp-vile, brown techbase, short, player-friendly combat puzzles
45 - spectre-soul, techbase, very short
55 - zombie-imp, outdoors, exploration puzzle
33 - manc-cg, techbase, very short
56 - zombie-soul, doomcute techbase, exploration, very short
08 - shot-imp, heck, short
23 - pinky-spiderdemon, brown/marble, resource conservation, crowds
12 - shot-caco, marble/lava, exploration
34 - pain-vile, metal/cave abstract, combat puzzle
40 - manc-pe, marble/grand, s*nic movement puzzle
47 - imp-cyb, techbase, pressure exploration, short/punchy
54 - imp-manc, techbase, short, exploration
14 - caco-imp, techbase, crowd control, combat puzzle
36 - HK-cg, city+heck, exploration, power fantasy
03 - spectre-cyb, marble/crate, exploration
62 - arach-soul, techbase, very short
59 - rev-cyb, outdoors techbase, combat puzzle, short/punchy
16 - arach-spiderdemon, city/techbase, exploration
41 - wolfSS-soul, more wolf maze, exploration, resource conservation
31 - wolfSS-spectre, wolf maze, exploration, death by 1000 cuts
64 - wolfSS-cyb, wolfinspace, arena gauntlet
42 - wolfSS-caco, abstract, death by 1000 cuts
07 - pinky-rev, fleshy heck, punchy
26 - caco-vile, wood/metal, combat puzzle, arena gauntlet
22 - HK-rev, computery tech+marble, combat/conservation puzzle
20 - pe-zombie, abstract garden/abandoned techbase, fodder slaughter, death by 1000 cuts
09 - cg-rev, brown brick indoors, short/punchy
51 - cyb-vile, marble, single hard combat puzzle arena
19 - caco-cg, wood/nature cave, crowd control
35 - pinky-rev, abstract castle, arena gauntlet platforming, combat puzzle
11 - spiderdemon-zombie, grand cave, platforming, death by 1000 cuts
15 - HK-cyb, brown/toxic cave, combat puzzle, very short
05 - pain-arach, brown/toxic cave, arena gauntlet
18 - shot-imp, heck cave/marble, exploration
17 - rev-caco, marble/lava, arena gauntlet, punchy
39 - rev-spiderdemon, abstract heck, resource gathering puzzle
57 - zombie-pinky, outdoors techbase, power fantasy
63 - vile-rev, heck canyon, combat puzzle
30 - cyb-spiderdemon, heck, bfg arena, short/punchy
58 - IoS-cyb, heck, movement arena

I tried to ensure map transitions make at least a modicum of sense for this one. Theme-wise, we take turns working through techbase/reality until somehow ending up in heck and finding a way out several times.
Other than SS, Revs and Imps, monsters are spread around pretty well I reckon, even Cybers and Viles are all over the place. There's a bit of a lean towards exploration in first half and combat-oriented stuff in the second half.
First 3 slots were chosen to be different in theme - a punchy opener in 04, the long exploration of 01 and light puzzles of 49.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing btw, so feel free to suggest improvements. Sorry for double post, but I figure getting this conversation going is important enough.

Good idea, may use this as a final layout. I’m thinking of what to use as the title pic and I’m making the logo rn

[Doomy__Doom]

Ok I totally forgot that we have secret+normal exits on maps 01 and 15, revised. So then 34 is secret from 01 as Onetap wanted originally, and secret from 15 I tentatively slot my map 35, it kinda poorly fits normal progression theme-wise no matter where put. If anyone else wants to be an endgame secret slot do tell, I'm not attached to the secret slot idea in the first place but we have 2 exits so...

Spoiler

-----EPISODE 1
04 - cg-rev, techbase, short/punchy
45 - spectre-soul, techbase, very short
55 - zombie-imp, outdoors, exploration puzzle
49 - imp-vile, brown techbase, short, player-friendly combat puzzles
01 - shot-imp, techbase, exploration, long
34 (secret from 01) - pe-vile, metal/cave abstract, combat puzzle
33 (normal from 01)- manc-cg, techbase, very short
56 - zombie-soul, doomcute techbase, exploration, very short
-----EPISODE 2
08 - shot-imp, heck, short
23 - pinky-spiderdemon, brown/marble, resource conservation, crowds
12 - shot-caco, marble/lava, exploration
40 - manc-pe, marble/grand, s*nic movement puzzle
47 - imp-cyb, techbase, pressure exploration, short/punchy
54 - imp-manc, techbase, short, exploration
14 - caco-imp, techbase, crowd control, combat puzzle
36 - HK-cg, city+heck, exploration, power fantasy
-----EPISODE 3
03 - spectre-cyb, marble/crate, exploration
62 - arach-soul, techbase, very short
59 - rev-cyb, outdoors techbase, combat puzzle, short/punchy
16 - arach-spiderdemon, city/techbase, exploration
41 - wolfSS-soul, more wolf maze, exploration, resource conservation
31 - wolfSS-spectre, wolf maze, exploration, death by 1000 cuts
64 - wolfSS-cyb, wolfinspace, arena gauntlet
42 - wolfSS-caco, abstract, death by 1000 cuts
-----EPISODE 4
07 - pinky-rev, fleshy heck, punchy
26 - caco-vile, wood/metal, combat puzzle, arena gauntlet
22 - HK-rev, computery tech+marble, combat/conservation puzzle
20 - pe-zombie, abstract garden/abandoned techbase, fodder slaughter, death by 1000 cuts
09 - cg-rev, brown brick indoors, short/punchy
51 - cyb-vile, marble, single hard combat puzzle arena
19 - caco-cg, wood/nature cave, crowd control
11 - spiderdemon-zombie, grand cave, platforming, death by 1000 cuts
-----EPISODE 5
15 - HK-cyb, brown/toxic cave, combat puzzle, very short
35 (secret from 15) - pinky-rev, abstract castle, arena gauntlet platforming, combat puzzle
05 (normal from 15) - pe-arach, brown/toxic cave, arena gauntlet
18 - shot-imp, heck cave/marble, exploration
17 - rev-caco, marble/lava, arena gauntlet, punchy
39 - rev-spiderdemon, abstract heck, resource gathering puzzle
57 - zombie-pinky, outdoors techbase, power fantasy
63 - vile-rev, heck canyon, combat puzzle
30 - cyb-spiderdemon, heck, bfg arena, short/punchy
58 - IoS-cyb, heck, movement arena

31 Wolf SS map has only secret exit, this can be just worked around with UMAPINFO to present it as normal progression.

Also added episode breakdown, if we want to have some custom intermissions and/or UMAPINFO for navigation.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Doomy__Doom

[ONETAPPYBOI]

3 hours ago, Doomy__Doom said:

Ok I totally forgot that we have secret+normal exits on maps 01 and 15, revised. So then 34 is secret from 01 as Onetap wanted originally, and secret from 15 I tentatively slot my map 35, it kinda poorly fits normal progression theme-wise no matter where put. If anyone else wants to be an endgame secret slot do tell, I'm not attached to the secret slot idea in the first place but we have 2 exits so...

  Hide contents

-----EPISODE 1
04 - cg-rev, techbase, short/punchy
45 - spectre-soul, techbase, very short
55 - zombie-imp, outdoors, exploration puzzle
49 - imp-vile, brown techbase, short, player-friendly combat puzzles
01 - shot-imp, techbase, exploration, long
34 (secret from 01) - pe-vile, metal/cave abstract, combat puzzle
33 (normal from 01)- manc-cg, techbase, very short
56 - zombie-soul, doomcute techbase, exploration, very short
-----EPISODE 2
08 - shot-imp, heck, short
23 - pinky-spiderdemon, brown/marble, resource conservation, crowds
12 - shot-caco, marble/lava, exploration
40 - manc-pe, marble/grand, s*nic movement puzzle
47 - imp-cyb, techbase, pressure exploration, short/punchy
54 - imp-manc, techbase, short, exploration
14 - caco-imp, techbase, crowd control, combat puzzle
36 - HK-cg, city+heck, exploration, power fantasy
-----EPISODE 3
03 - spectre-cyb, marble/crate, exploration
62 - arach-soul, techbase, very short
59 - rev-cyb, outdoors techbase, combat puzzle, short/punchy
16 - arach-spiderdemon, city/techbase, exploration
41 - wolfSS-soul, more wolf maze, exploration, resource conservation
31 - wolfSS-spectre, wolf maze, exploration, death by 1000 cuts
64 - wolfSS-cyb, wolfinspace, arena gauntlet
42 - wolfSS-caco, abstract, death by 1000 cuts
-----EPISODE 4
07 - pinky-rev, fleshy heck, punchy
26 - caco-vile, wood/metal, combat puzzle, arena gauntlet
22 - HK-rev, computery tech+marble, combat/conservation puzzle
20 - pe-zombie, abstract garden/abandoned techbase, fodder slaughter, death by 1000 cuts
09 - cg-rev, brown brick indoors, short/punchy
51 - cyb-vile, marble, single hard combat puzzle arena
19 - caco-cg, wood/nature cave, crowd control
11 - spiderdemon-zombie, grand cave, platforming, death by 1000 cuts
-----EPISODE 5
15 - HK-cyb, brown/toxic cave, combat puzzle, very short
35 (secret from 15) - pinky-rev, abstract castle, arena gauntlet platforming, combat puzzle
05 (normal from 15) - pe-arach, brown/toxic cave, arena gauntlet
18 - shot-imp, heck cave/marble, exploration
17 - rev-caco, marble/lava, arena gauntlet, punchy
39 - rev-spiderdemon, abstract heck, resource gathering puzzle
57 - zombie-pinky, outdoors techbase, power fantasy
63 - vile-rev, heck canyon, combat puzzle
30 - cyb-spiderdemon, heck, bfg arena, short/punchy
58 - IoS-cyb, heck, movement arena

31 Wolf SS map has only secret exit, this can be just worked around with UMAPINFO to present it as normal progression.

Also added episode breakdown, if we want to have some custom intermissions and/or UMAPINFO for navigation.

This gives me an idea of dividing the megawad into proper episodes, like the ones in Ultimate Doom, which is easily doable with UMAPINFO. Also, can someone give me the list of level names so that i can input them into UMAPINFO and generate intermission screen graphics?

[Doomy__Doom]

12 minutes ago, ONETAPPYBOI said:

This gives me an idea of dividing the megawad into proper episodes, like the ones in Ultimate Doom, which is easily doable with UMAPINFO. Also, can someone give me the list of level names so that i can input them into UMAPINFO and generate intermission screen graphics? 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zWcTJSiLLI6mZ2cGk3tgMaws6McNjA6P/view?usp=sharing

Here, recompiled the wad with slots according to the list from the previous post, filled out missing names (that was solid 40 minutes of thread archaeology lmao) and added 5 episodes.

All map tags are changed (e.g. old MAP01 is now MAP05 in slade), UMAPINFO is in order of new slots 1-42, did not rename any resources such as skies or music that references old names though.

Episode names are up for debate, obviously. Did not add patches for episode names for that reason, it is using fallback font as per spec for now.

Spoiler

Intermissions are only on secret levels atm, feel free to add others.

Submission slot->new slot mapping:

Spoiler

01 -> 05
03 -> 16
04 -> 01
05 -> 33
07 -> 24
08 -> 08
09 -> 28
11 -> 31
12 -> 10
14 -> 14
15 -> 32
16 -> 19
17 -> 35
18 -> 34
19 -> 30
20 -> 27
22 -> 26
23 -> 09
26 -> 25
30 -> 39
31 -> 21
33 -> 06
34 -> 41
35 -> 42
36 -> 15
39 -> 36
40 -> 11
41 -> 20
42 -> 23
45 -> 02
47 -> 12
49 -> 04
51 -> 29
54 -> 13
55 -> 03
56 -> 07
57 -> 37
58 -> 40
59 -> 18
62 -> 17
63 -> 38
64 -> 22

 

And a "known issue" - MAP30->MAP31 does not show "Entering..." screen in Pr+/dsda. It does in GZDoom though. Umapinfo implementations are not identical in some details as I've come to learn, so I'm not sure if it's a bug to report or feature to work around (it shows enterpic but no text, so we can make an enterpic I guess)

Edited October 23, 2022 by Doomy__Doom

[ONETAPPYBOI]

Okay, so which one of these do you think looks better and i should choose as intermission screen pics?
1) 

2) 

3) 

[Doomy__Doom]

52 minutes ago, ONETAPPYBOI said:

Okay, so which one of these do you think looks better and i should choose as intermission screen pics?
1) 

2) 

3) 

Can't say I have a preference on presense/absense of capitalization. I'd probably worry the most about size of map 33 title (old 5).

Wrt intermission screens anbd such - that's the kind of thing I struggle with horribly.

[El Jeff]

2 hours ago, ONETAPPYBOI said:

Okay, so which one of these do you think looks better and i should choose as intermission screen pics?
1) 

2) 

3) 

Imo 1 looks the best

[El Jeff]

3 hours ago, Doomy__Doom said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zWcTJSiLLI6mZ2cGk3tgMaws6McNjA6P/view?usp=sharing

Here, recompiled the wad with slots according to the list from the previous post, filled out missing names (that was solid 40 minutes of thread archaeology lmao) and added 5 episodes.

All map tags are changed (e.g. old MAP01 is now MAP05 in slade), UMAPINFO is in order of new slots 1-42, did not rename any resources such as skies or music that references old names though.

Episode names are up for debate, obviously. Did not add patches for episode names for that reason, it is using fallback font as per spec for now.

01 -> 05
03 -> 16
04 -> 01
05 -> 33
07 -> 24
08 -> 08
09 -> 28
11 -> 31
12 -> 10
14 -> 14
15 -> 32
16 -> 19
17 -> 35
18 -> 34
19 -> 30
20 -> 27
22 -> 26
23 -> 09
26 -> 25
30 -> 39
31 -> 21
33 -> 06
34 -> 41
35 -> 42
36 -> 15
39 -> 36
40 -> 11
41 -> 20
42 -> 23
45 -> 02
47 -> 12
49 -> 04
51 -> 29
54 -> 13
55 -> 03
56 -> 07
57 -> 37
58 -> 40
59 -> 18
62 -> 17
63 -> 38
64 -> 22

 

I have an idea, what if we make all the episode names puns relating to the number 2 in some way shape or form, for example

1. Second Coming

2. 2 hell and back 

3. Get 2 it

4. Another 2sday 

5. Something Something 2 idk I ran out of ideas 

[Impboy4]

38 minutes ago, Thatonespymain said:

I have an idea, what if we make all the episode names puns relating to the number 2 in some way shape or form, for example

1. Second Coming

2. 2 hell and back 

3. Get 2 it

4. Another 2sday 

5. Something Something 2 idk I ran out of ideas 

5. 2ting your horn

[El Jeff]

1 hour ago, Impboy4 said:

5. 2ting your horn

Perfect

[scwiba]

Just an fyi that Dissolution of the Flesh has this visual bug in the little tower where you warp between worlds (at least when playing in DSDA):

 

Spoiler

 

[Shawn]

16 hours ago, scwiba said:

Just an fyi that Dissolution of the Flesh has this visual bug in the little tower where you warp between worlds (at least when playing in DSDA):

 

Thank you for the bug report. I didn't test that part in Software mode, my mistake.

I corrected the bug, it's the only change about the map. I tested the rest of the map in Software and found no other weirdness.

 

Dissolution of the Flesh v3.zip

Edited October 24, 2022 by Shawn

[scwiba]

Not to be a pest, but my map is still not correctly titled in the latest build. Map31 is currently "Mindless" but should be "The Mindless End". Other mappers might want to check that their maps got the correct names.

[Doomy__Doom]

24 minutes ago, scwiba said:

Not to be a pest, but my map is still not correctly titled in the latest build. Map31 is currently "Mindless" but should be "The Mindless End". Other mappers might want to check that their maps got the correct names.

I had to figure a ton of map names by backtracking from the post links I kept with the latest version and in some cases when I didn't notice the correct post I took the wad name. Probably missed yours because you scrubbed the link and I was mostly looking for that as indicator of submission rather than reading every post in detail.

 

Suffice to say, given this experience, if I ever run a project as a lead (haha when is that ever gonna be), I'm going to enforce a standartized *mapinfo submission or "only ever edit the first post used for submission with new versions" rule to better keep track of stuff.

[scwiba]

There are some major HOM issues at the very beginning of the map Dam of the Damned.

Spoiler

 

2 hours ago, Doomy__Doom said:

Suffice to say, given this experience, if I ever run a project as a lead (haha when is that ever gonna be), I'm going to enforce a standartized *mapinfo submission or "only ever edit the first post used for submission with new versions" rule to better keep track of stuff.

You might want to consider @DavidN's RAMPART for an easier map submission process.

Edited October 24, 2022 by scwiba

[Doomy__Doom]

29 minutes ago, scwiba said:

There are some major HOM issues at the very beginning of the map Dam of the Damned.

Yup, I've pinged the mapper on the previous page. Idk when exactly our release date is supposed to be (@Thatonespymain ?), if there's no 1st party fix by then I can fix sky HOMs and the lift textures last minute. Every other "technical" issue mentioned there is too much into "touching someone else's stuff without permission" for my taste, so decision on those I'll leave to our project lead.

[El Jeff]

On 10/24/2022 at 10:05 PM, Doomy__Doom said:

Yup, I've pinged the mapper on the previous page. Idk when exactly our release date is supposed to be (@Thatonespymain ?), if there's no 1st party fix by then I can fix sky HOMs and the lift textures last minute. Every other "technical" issue mentioned there is too much into "touching someone else's stuff without permission" for my taste, so decision on those I'll leave to our project lead.

Probably like November 5th

[Doomy__Doom]

Alright, since we're approaching 5th, here's my attempt to fix 38 (old 63):

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/139c41GezZlmh8iLlbA2ITlKPeVGFAct-?usp=share_link

 

Folder has 2 versions of complied wad:

1) 2ecp_alpha4_38lite - fixes sky HOMs, missing textures and W1 line softlock - barest minimum to keep everything as made by the author.

2) 2ecp_alpha4_38ext - additionally fixes some damaging floors (on sectors that are not lava) and SSG secret - a very minimalist QA pass.

 

@Thatonespymain Feel free to choose whichever you think is better. Author's account has a grand total of 4 posts in this very topic and last visit on October 14th, so I'd say it's safe to not expect 1st party fixes.

 

Both versions fix map31 name issue. Episode names, intermissions, CWILVs and titlepic still need to be done.

[El Jeff]

On 11/3/2022 at 3:33 PM, Doomy__Doom said:

Alright, since we're approaching 5th, here's my attempt to fix 38 (old 63):

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/139c41GezZlmh8iLlbA2ITlKPeVGFAct-?usp=share_link

 

Folder has 2 versions of complied wad:

1) 2ecp_alpha4_38lite - fixes sky HOMs, missing textures and W1 line softlock - barest minimum to keep everything as made by the author.

2) 2ecp_alpha4_38ext - additionally fixes some damaging floors (on sectors that are not lava) and SSG secret - a very minimalist QA pass.

 

@Thatonespymain Feel free to choose whichever you think is better. Author's account has a grand total of 4 posts in this very topic and last visit on October 14th, so I'd say it's safe to not expect 1st party fixes.

 

Both versions fix map31 name issue. Episode names, intermissions, CWILVs and titlepic still need to be done.

Sorry I’ve been busy, thank you for compiling the wad though

Edited November 5, 2022 by Thatonespymain

[Emperor S P O O N]

So... How far away are we from finishing the wad? I know you're probably really busy, but I just want to know so that I can make some time to play through the wad myself.

If you need help, I can quickly do the CWILV's, titlepic, and maybe the intermissions once I get home.

[El Jeff]

22 hours ago, Emperor S P O O N said:

So... How far away are we from finishing the wad? I know you're probably really busy, but I just want to know so that I can make some time to play through the wad myself.

If you need help, I can quickly do the CWILV's, titlepic, and maybe the intermissions once I get home.

Thanks for the offer, I’m sorry for being a bit pre-occupied rn. I’d say like a month but I’m trying to get everything done as quickly as possible

[Emperor S P O O N]

1 hour ago, Thatonespymain said:

Thanks for the offer, I’m sorry for being a bit pre-occupied rn. I’d say like a month but I’m trying to get everything done as quickly as possible

That's a long time. Just put into the readme file in the wad a list of everything you need done, send me a download link, and I'll see what I can do.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Emperor S P O O N

[Emperor S P O O N]

@Thatonespymain Just checking in. How's the wad coming?

[El Jeff]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:50 PM, Emperor S P O O N said:

@Thatonespymain Just checking in. How's the wad coming?

I’ve been doing nothing relating to this project for a month because my mocks are about to come and I’ve been studying for them. I’ll try my best to do something about this, sorry for the delays

[Emperor S P O O N]

Any updates on the progress of the wad?

[Lone2401]

@ThatonespymainSince finalizing the project is taking a while, do you mind if we release our maps as standalone?

[Emperor S P O O N]

@Thatonespymain I don't mean to be rude, but it's been a while since the deadline and while I can't speak for everyone here I'm pretty certain we'd all like an update on the progress of the finalized wad. If you're still really busy with personal life stuff, that's fine and I can understand that. I'm sure I or someone else can help finish the wad so that this project doesn't just trip over and die just before the finish line. It's been over 2 months already, and I'd really hate to see all our hard work go to waste.

If it's already done and uploaded somewhere and I'm just being stupid, I do apologize and request that can you please post the link here in the thread?

[Scypek2]

Yeah, just because you started the project doesn't mean you need to do all the compiling yourself, especially when you have important things keeping you busy. You've done a good job managing the project most of the way through. If you have any specific ideas on what you want from the compilation/titlepic/etc, you could just share them here and we can get it done. It's no big deal.