Community project - Co-op megawad "It takes Doom for two"

[FragsBunny]

What's up, fellow Doomers? There have been many megawads for single players, and many of them also have multiplayer flags. But fact is, even with extra monsters and items, they can still be completed with a single player. But how about wads that can only be completed with no less than 2 players?

 

And as such, I propose a community project for creating a megawad, that is designed for a walkthrough with at least 2 players. Imagine both switch and combat puzzles that can be only completed by two players, or two halves of a map, each taken by respective partner, occassionaly influencing each other. Since most of you play on ZDaemon port, it should be the recommended port for compatiblity, but vanilla resources of Doom should be enough! Oh, and of course, make sure there are at least two player starts.

 

And make it so that each item can only be picked once. This can create a situations where two different weapons (rocket launcher and plasma gun for example) can only be picked by one player each. And yes, this should include keys as well. While this might cause some soft-locks or hard locks in certain maps, this should be a coop wad after all - you can only blame your partner if something goes wrong!

Although I have no prior experiences with Doom Builder, I can still provide creative advices as long as there are enough volunteers to start it! And to test your maps with you - after all, how else you can test your maps that should be designed for no less than 2 players? So, how about it, guys? Think you can create maps with layouts that require two players to finish them? Feel free to provide a name suggestion for two-player megawad. And take your time - community projects of such scale might take a while to complete!
 

• Base IWAD: Doom 2
• Target source port: Zandronum, Boom format
• Maps 01-11 are usually base maps, Maps 12-20 outdoor/city maps and Maps 21-30 hell maps
• Base Doom II resourses are enough - even with vanilla asset, two-player oriented maps will be still a blast!
• As for the deadline... I guess New Year? Gonna need to figure out how many people would pick up on this.

• All levels must be compatible not just for 2 players, but for 3-4 players as well. When making player starts, make sure to place player 1 start together with player 3, and player 2 with player 4 so that the gameplay remain compatible.

• Since multiplayer things are set by default, I would like for you to tune up difficulty of your maps in the following manner:
  Hey, not Too Rough and Hurt me Plenty for 2 players, Ultra-Violence and Nightmare for 3-4 players.

   

Template names for maps are done (subject to change). Ask me in private what to expect from each of those maps.

 

MAP01 - Mutual Agreement (reserved for @FragsBunny)

MAP02 - Pressing Together

MAP03 - Infiltration

MAP04 - Authorization Pass

MAP05 - Lift Control

MAP06 - Sewer Treatment

MAP07 - Brothers in Arms
MAP08 - Birdcage
MAP09 - Crushing Pressure (reserved for @Melemesh)

MAP10 - Portal Complex
MAP11 - Bait
MAP12 - Gladiators
MAP13 - Journey Away from Home
MAP14 - River Stream
MAP15 - Emergency Lights
MAP16 - Back-to-Back
MAP17 - Improvised Cover
MAP18 - Dirty Job
MAP19 - Weapon Caches
MAP20 - Gate of No Return
MAP21 - Close Combat
MAP22 - Signature Gun
MAP23 - Separation Anxiety
MAP24 - Leap of Faith
MAP25 - Big Brother
MAP26 - Lavarunners
MAP27 - Mount Torment
MAP28 - Long Range Artillery
MAP29 - Hellfire
MAP30 - Icon of Betrayal
MAP31 - Three is a Company
MAP32 - Fourslayers

Edited June 24, 2022 by FragsBunny

[Biodegradable]

I think you might want to consider giving this a read, Frags. Your OP needs a lot more fleshing out, I feel.

[FragsBunny]

I know, I still need some work on it.

But thing is - I have never seen myself any wads that require two players to work together (think about It Takes Two), so I had at least bring out the idea to community. I will have a vacation during the next week, and hopefully during that time, I can give the project a more proper form! And maybe, given enough motivation, take on the Doom Builder myself!

 

I mean, I have already scratched some plans for all 32 maps. I can share them with you, if you are REALLY interested to see levels that require two players to progress. For now, thank you for leading me to guiding topic!

Edited June 21, 2022 by FragsBunny

[Dynamo]

Try coopbuildlm, some maps can only be completed with at least two players.

[FragsBunny]

Oh, so a cooperative wad actually exists. That's nice to know. But from what I've heard, it's just a slaugther mapset oriented for at least 7-8 players and where ammo is infinite. The project that I have in mind has nothing like that. It should be a standard megawad progression with limited ammo and planned pistol starts, and death resets on MAP11 and MAP20.

Furthermore, while all maps can be completed with no less than 2 players, I do plan for 4 player starts in mind. As you can see from map names, MAP31 should be designed for no less than 3 players, and MAP32 for no less than 4 players.

Here are some mapping tricks for you to get started:

• Timed swith puzzles. One player opens a distant door, the other pass through it
• Starting with different keys. One player starts the level with blue key, the other with yellow key.
• Separate area progression. Each player is limited to explore a certain section of the level (according to player starts), but they can sometimes see each other and press switches to help each other progress
• Separate starting weapons. There will be a map where one player starts with rocket launcher and the other with plasma gun, for example.
• Combat puzzles for two players. One such example is when one player will be locked in a cage after picking a key, with the second player still outside. Both players will then be attacked by monsters, and the second player has to frantically divert their attemption from his partner, who has much less maneuverablity

And much more. But for now... it is still just some ideas of a mind. Just think about "Doom meets It Takes Two."

Edited June 22, 2022 by FragsBunny

[Melemesh]

I really like this idea of these puzzle-oriented coop maps rather than slaughter ones, I think I could do a map. I haven't done a community project map before, but I would love to try. I have a few things I need to finish up myself first though, but then I can get to work on this, with such a far deadline I think I should be able to make it. As for what map I would like to do, I would like to do map 9, I have some ideas for it, but any map would be fine really.

[FragsBunny]

There is another thing that I would like to place in consideration.

I would like for all levels to be compatible not just for 2 players, but for 3-4 players as well. When making player starts, make sure to place player 1 start together with player 3, and player 2 with player 4 so that the gameplay remain compatible.

 

In addition to that, since multiplayer things are set by default, I would like for you to tune up difficulty of your maps in the following manner:
Hey, not Too Rough and Hurt me Plenty for 2 players
Ultra-Violence and Nightmare for 3-4 players.

Edited June 23, 2022 by FragsBunny

[FragsBunny]

I have a question for fellow mappers. It is possible to add a helper marine bot similar to friendly monsters used in MBF?

 

This point of this question is the ability to play the coop megawad solo with a bot, with the ability to switch places with him (making the bot invincible but retaining your health and ammo intact after the switch). As for the weapons, it should be enough to give bot a single weapon depending on the map. Do you think this is possible to implement such interaction with a coop bot?

EDIT: Turns out such things exist! 

EDIT 2: And this thing as well: https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9600
I should ask @printz and @TDRR for some collaboration and see what they think about it. Can we build co-op maps with co-op bots in mind?
 

Edited June 24, 2022 by FragsBunny

[Pistoolkip]

Great idea!

 

I had a similar idea a few months ago but never started building, because of the amount of work required and the difficulty of playtesting.

 

My advice would be: make a map asap so you can try if the concept will work, and you have an example map to show to other mappers. 

[FragsBunny]

I know that the project won't be greenlit unless I show a practical example first. I have a vacation coming up soon, I should be able to try MAP01 during that time. In fact, I should reserve that map for myself right now!

[Degree23]

Wasn't Memento Mori sort of designed with 2 players in mind? Either way, I agree that there's few WADs out there that cater to this and it's definitely something I'd play with my brother.

 

On 6/21/2022 at 6:36 AM, FragsBunny said:

While this might cause some soft-locks or hard locks in certain maps, this should be a coop wad after all - you can only blame your partner if something goes wrong!

 

It depends on exactly what the progression is like, but I would imagine that opening a teleporter at the start of the relevant player's path once they reach a room where they could be soft locked if they die would fix some of these issues.

[Dasha W. Frost]

Definitely interested in this one, since I'm a true Doom co-op enthusiast, hehe! What @FragsBunny described actually makes me think about something like We Are Here game series, but quite possibly better. Very excited about this project! Good co-op Doom mods are truly hard to find. We need more stuff like that for all of us fans of jolly cooperation.

 

@Degree23, thank you for valuable information, I was not aware of Memento Mori being designed for 2 players, now I gotta definitely check it out.

[FragsBunny]

Unfortunately, during my vacation, I'll be away for a week, and as such, I won't be able to touch the Doom Builder on my computer. I might watch some tutorial videos while I am away.

 

Even so, I still encourage you to make maps specifically oriented for at least 2 players! Even if they turn into solo project otherwise. Use Doom Builder in a way that you have never used it before!