Should Doom 64 Have its own category?

[OpenRift]

Despite its rather misleading title, Doom 64 is far from a mere port to the N64, but rather the closest thing to a real Doom III we've ever gotten. That said, do you think it deserves its own category separate from the rest of console Doom?

[Faceman2000]

It’s so tied to both classic Doom and the consoles ports that it doesn’t make sense to really discuss it separately from those. It’s not like Doom 3 or nuDoom where it’s a complete rewrite of the formula.

[OpenRift]

1 minute ago, Faceman2000 said:

It’s so tied to both classic Doom and the consoles ports that it doesn’t make sense to really discuss it separately from those. It’s not like Doom 3 or nuDoom where it’s a complete rewrite of the formula.

Yeah but Doom 64 has it's own modding community that could frankly get lost in the sea of Doom 1 and 2 WAD posts and community projects.

[the_kovic]

Absolutely yes. DOOM 64 has its own brand new campaign and its own unique map format which has features that weren't replicated on PC until the coming of ZDoom or even UDMF. Furthermore, with the advent of first Kaiser's EX port but especially Bethesda official PC re-release, Doom 64 has established a scene on PC and the modding and mapping community is alive and kicking strong. I think this unique blend of retro real hardware gaming and reverse engineering with limit-pushing PC modding (not to mention the countless Doom 64 knockoffs on GZDoom, haha) warrant a separation from your regular Jaguar and Saturn DOOMs.

[Immorpher]

All I can say, is if Doom 64 had its own category, I would live in that category! haha

[Nikoxenos]

I consider it as separate as Doom 3.

[BrutalBlam]

53 minutes ago, OpenRift said:

Despite its rather misleading title, Doom 64 is far from a mere port to the N64, but rather the closest thing to a real Doom III we've ever gotten. That said, do you think it deserves its own category separate from the rest of console Doom?

I personally see Plutonia and TNT as individual DOOM III's, as both act as a sequel to DOOM II. DOOM 64 is more like DOOM IV to me.

[forgettable pyromaniac]

I'd say maybe as a subcategory of Console Doom, since it's different enough to be it's own thing, but it's still a doom that only released on console, so why would it have any reason to be it's own category entirely?

[Endless]

6 minutes ago, Nikoxenos said:

I consider it as separate as Doom 3.

I, too, agree with this gentleman.

 

2 minutes ago, forgettable pyromaniac said:

I'd say maybe as a subcategory of Console Doom, since it's different enough to be it's own thing, but it's still a doom that only released on console, so why would it have any reason to be it's own category entirely?

It has had a lot of unofficial ports to PC, a modding scene, and it was released on Steam in 2020, and just got released on GOG today! :D

[Doomkid]

No, but only for the same reason Doom 2, Final Doom, Doom RPG etc don’t have their own distinct subcategories. They’re all cousins under one umbrella (console doom is inclusive of mobile Doom games/ports too, imo).

 

It would be really, really underused compared to the more generalised Classic Doom sections, what with Doom64 wads (and threads in general) being even rarer than Final Doom wads/threads, which are already relatively uncommon.

 

What I would love to see is the speedrunning section moved away from special interest (why was it there anyway??? I guess it was rarer to speedrun one upon a time?) to under the Classic Doom umbrella where it belongs, but finding a way to add even one more subsection without it becoming overly-cluttered is a hurdle that we still need to work out..

[Biodegradable]

Doom64 is very much its own beast with its own design philosophy, soundtrack, source ports and has a passionate modding scene as well as the official re-release on digital store-fronts recognising it as its own game. Its own subforum within the Console Doom category at the very least would be fine in my book, but it does tick all the boxes in regards to qualifying for its very own category as far as I'm concerned.

 

That being said, @Doomkid's point about umbrella terminology does make sense in regards to not wanting to clutter the place up with underutilised subforums. My old forum made one too many categories which lead to half the place just collecting dust from lack of use. Perhaps it is for the best that Doom64 remain relegated to the Console Doom category. My best advice for Doom64 advocates is to get more vocal and start making heaps more content and discussion threads for it until giving the game its very own separate category or a sub-subforum within the Console Doom category at the very least becomes more viable.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Biodegradable

[7Mahonin]

Well, it is still a game that has its origin as a console Doom game, so that is why I choose that option. Sure, it has since been ported to PC so it is no longer just a console version, but it will always be known as Doom 64, not Doom III. While it is by far the most involved console Doom there is, with it being essentially a sequel to Doom II, having its own levels and uses a roster of enemies that differ from Doom II but still more than what was in the first game, I do not think there is enough reason to make it a category of its own, for mostly the same reasons there aren't Heretic, Hexen, and Strife categories.

Edited June 24, 2022 by 7Mahonin

[Breadbunbun]

I don't believe it should have its own distinct section all to itself. However I am of the firm belief that it does not fit into the Console Doom section either as it has an official and fan-made port to PC unlike every other console version of Doom, as well as not simply being a port like every single other console version of Doom. It is certainly a distinct entity away from all of the other console versions of Doom. But I don't think it is distinct enough to warrant its own entire section of forum, but I don't think it should remain in console doom.

TL;D, Im not sure what to do with it. But I don't think it fits Console Doom.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Breadbunbun

[Doomkid]

To slice it from a different angle: Every thread one could make about Doom64 already has a place it could go without issue - general D64 threads could be started in either Console Doom or Doom General depending on the sensibilities of the poster, and wads/mods could be posted in, well, wads/mods. There’s nothing that doesn’t already have a suitable home, in other words.

[Dodgy Dave]

Part of the classic era, should be with the rest of the classic games.

 

That and there's a source port.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Dodgy Dave

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

The only way for DOOM 64 to deserve its own category is if people start releasing hundreds of maps for it. Which is something I'd like to see happen. Let's be honest, if the mods added a DOOM 64 subforum, it would be a barren wasteland. There's no point having a subforum that is going to be a ghost town when there's no problem with DOOM 64 maps going in the wads and mods section.

 

A much better solution would be a single thread that collects DOOM 64 maps, preferably separated by compatibility (whether or not they work with the Nightdive port) and is kept up to date.

Edited June 24, 2022 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[baja blast rd.]

1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

... Let's be honest, if the mods added a DOOM 64 subforum, it would be a barren wasteland. ...

 

Admins. (I have to correct this when I see it because "people thinking admins/mods are interchangeable categories" gives me a couple strange DMs a month that are really low on my list of priorities to respond to.)

 

1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

A much better solution would be a single thread that collects DOOM 64 maps, preferably separated by compatibility (whether or not they work with the Nightdive port) and is kept up to date.

 

Someone read your mind. 

[Doomkid]

2 minutes ago, baja blast rd. said:

Someone read your mind. 

Once again, Someone comes to the rescue. I swear they are the true unsung hero of this community.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Once again, Someone comes to the rescue. I swear they are the true unsung hero of this community.

I misread both you and rd's posts, thought you guys were talking about Somemong being a hero.

 

Sorry about the wrong terminology rd, I'm used to calling all the "staff" mods because it's rare that I ever even have to use the word "admin" here.

[aboyes1989]

PSX Doom is different enough from the original PC versions and has a dedicated modding/total conversion community, however that is just still considered a console port. Whilst Doom 64 pushes what PSX Doom did even further, it's still very much rooted in the original design and function of the original. I'd say it belongs in the 'console' category still.

[QuaketallicA]

Neither?

 

Firstly, I disagree with "closest thing to a real Doom 3," since the actual Doom 3, though a remake, is pretty phenomenal. Fantastic game, and thanks to mods (i.e. SikkMod) it only gets better over time.

 

Doom 64 though isn't quite a full-fledged sequel, but it's obviously not just a port of PC Doom like the Playstation version. It's just its own little thing existing on the side, mostly ignored and forgotten about by many until the recent re-release gave it new popularity.

Edited June 24, 2022 by QuaketallicA

[Dimon12321]

Judging by the fact how rare Doom 64 topics pop up among others, I think the only reason to have a separate section for it is a better topic structuring. No-one releases megawads or new level packs for Doom 64, no-one discusses source ports (Absolution, EX etc.), map packing and various how-tos is a rare thing, game lore is already discussed. I don't think people will pay much attention to the separate section.

[Azuris]

If it some day has the same support as the first two, than it should.

[the_kovic]

On 6/24/2022 at 11:06 AM, Dimon12321 said:

Judging by the fact how rare Doom 64 topics pop up among others, I think the only reason to have a separate section for it is a better topic structuring. No-one releases megawads or new level packs for Doom 64, no-one discusses source ports (Absolution, EX etc.), map packing and various how-tos is a rare thing, game lore is already discussed. I don't think people will pay much attention to the separate section.

That's just demonstrably not true. A megawad is in development as we speak and nearing release, individual maps independent of that project are being released also and Doom 64 EX has recently been forked and resumed development.

[A Nobody]

Well it is Doom 3 so...

[Kinsie]

8 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

Well it is Doom 3 so...

This does not appear to be correct. In fact, it appears to be Doom 64.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

9 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

Well it is Doom 3 so...

Can we stop with this bullshit? I'm sick of seeing this remark on every other DOOM 3 and DOOM 64 thread. The real DOOM 3 is, in fact, DOOM Fucking 3. This comment is as dumb as saying "DOOM 3 is the real DOOM 64 because it focuses on horror even more than DOOM 64", or "DOOM Eternal is the real DOOM 3 because I didn't like DOOM 3 and I also can't come up with an original joke so I'm going to leave this worthless comment here instead of actually trying to think about an answer to your question".

Edited June 26, 2022 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[Edward850]

1 hour ago, Kinsie said:

This does not appear to be correct. In fact, it appears to be Doom 64.

But Kinsie, don't you know that Doom isn't supposed to be dark

Gah wait no how did this Doom64 screenshot get here?

[SMG_Man]

11 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Gah wait no how did this Doom64 screenshot get here?

 

it's like I'm looking at the Doom 3 of Doom 64 screenshots

[sandwedge]

I don't see how you could call Doom 64 the real Doom 3 when it took out a bunch of stuff that is pretty important to Doom 2, like the revenants, archviles, chaingunners and whatever else.  To me it's a bit of a step back.  The levels were also designed for an N64 controller so they are a bit easier and simplistic on PC imo.  And I am definitely not using an N64 controller anymore if I can help it, lol.  It's a great game that was made specifically to conform to N64 limitations and did it really well with that.  But I can't possibly think of it as a step up just because they put in an ambient soundtrack, some coloured lighting and made the pinkies look like clay.