Should Doom 64 Have its own category?

[out_of_service]

@Doomkid Sums it up perfectly! Case closed.

 

26 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I feel like the point is being intentionally missed at this point, heh. The case is not and has never been that Doom 64 isn’t a “mainline” Doom game. The case is that literally any topic one could feasibly make about Doom64 has a perfectly adequate home in Doom General, Console Doom or Wads n Mods.

 

No one is “blaming” the Doom64 community for anything (literally what), the observation was just that Doom64-based threads are relatively uncommon to the point where they simply do not constitute enough forum traffic to warrant yet another section on a site that already probably has too many sections.

 

The only analogy I can think of is for the Mario series, since it’s one of the only other series I’m very familiar with: This is like if we ran a Mario forum with a “Classic Mario Games” section, and a “Newschool Mario Games” section, split by wether or not it was a 2D or 3D game. Then a bunch of people were like “where’s the dedicated Super Mario World section?”, as though it weren’t obviously already part of the “Classic Mario” family. Sure it’s a step up from Mario 1-3, the graphics and music are a bit nicer.. but it’s still so blatantly part of the “old batch” that trying to create one little specialised “forum island” for it is not only super disorganised, but pointless. The fact that some enemies behave/appear slightly differently and the music/texturing is all-new doesn’t change that.

 

Hell, at a glance, having 8 whole forums (not counting subforums!) dedicated to the Classic half of the Doom series is already more than enough. Why would one random entry in the series be given this preferential treatment? It only makes sense once every Classic Doom game is given their own dedicated section.. As things stand, Doom 1, 2, and Final Doom also don’t have their own sections.

 

If the amount of wads and mods/general threads about Doom64 start getting to the point where they’re clogging other sections of the forum with their sheer frequency, I feel like that would be a different story. I frankly don’t understand this push to divorce Doom64 from the other “Classic Doom” games though :( that just means it’s sort of floating off in no man’s land, because it sure as shit doesn’t belong in the “Newfangled Doom” family, nor does it belong in the “side games” family.

 

If a family has 4 kids and 3 of them love wearing bright blue polo shirts but one is totally emo, that doesn’t suddenly sever their genetic lineage, lol.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Piper Maru

[7Mahonin]

3 hours ago, Sr_Ludicolo said:

If you think it's just a console port, you've either not played the game or you're just objectively wrong.

 

Doom 64

There was a time when Doom 64 could only be played by using a Nintendo 64. It is not a mainline installment for this reason. It is more than just a console port of Doom or Doom II, for sure, but it is not Doom 3 and I don’t think it was ever even considered to be that in any official capacity. 
 

Doom 3 is an entirely different game and engine from classic Doom, as is Doom 2016 and Eternal. It makes sense for them to have their own sections.

 

Doom 64 falls in with Doom, Doom II, Final Doom, Heretic, Hexen, and Strife. Where Doom 64 is unique, is that there is still a player base that plays the game on their N64, and discussions about modding the cartridge or even modding the system for a better Doom 64 experience can be had on Console Doom, while everything else that involves Doom 64 would make sense in any of the “Classic Doom” sections. 
 

While the poll shows more votes for it to be its own section, I don’t think it makes much sense for there to be one. Are we to have a The Ultimate Doom, Doom II, Final Doom, Heretic, Hexen, and Strife section too? If those seem like they would be unnecessary to have their own sections then why would it be any different for Doom 64? 

[Average]

I suppose my feeling is that every source port that runs Doom 1 also runs Doom 2 and quite a few also support Heretic and Hexen, whereas Doom 64 still requires its own engine and/or source port just like Doom 3 and RoE and Doom/Eternal.  I haven't really thought about it too much beyond that but that's why my smooth brain separates D64 from the other classic titles.  For me, it just doesn't feel like one of the OG PC titles or that it sits comfortably in that pantheon.  It's kinda like an interstitial thing between OG and New Fangled Doom all on its own... If that makes sense.

[Doomkid]

Having a different perspective on this doesn't make you a smoothbrain, I definitely don't mean to imply that about anyone here. At this point I'm just pissed that we didn't get a direct PC version of Doom64 all the way back in like 1998 or so, because it has caused us a hell of a debacle (and tbh, being console only for so long deprived the game of the number of custom maps it deserved).

 

I do have a copy of Doom64 for my actual N64, but I have to admit the only actual playthroughs I've ever done of the game were in various attempts to bring it over to the PC - Absolution (forever ago) and EX. Maybe that subtly convinced me it was solidly part of that Old Doom family. Even when I boot it up on the actual N64 though, I can really tell through the gameplay and general "feel" that it's still the id tech 1 engine.

[LadyMistDragon]

 

2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I feel like the point is being intentionally missed at this point, heh. The case is not and has never been that Doom 64 isn’t a “mainline” Doom game. The case is that literally any topic one could feasibly make about Doom64 has a perfectly adequate home in Doom General, Console Doom or Wads n Mods.

 

No one is “blaming” the Doom64 community for anything (literally what), the observation was just that Doom64-based threads are relatively uncommon to the point where they simply do not constitute enough forum traffic to warrant yet another section on a site that already probably has too many sections.

 

The only analogy I can think of is for the Mario series, since it’s one of the only other series I’m very familiar with: This is like if we ran a Mario forum with a “Classic Mario Games” section, and a “Newschool Mario Games” section, split by wether or not it was a 2D or 3D game. Then a bunch of people were like “where’s the dedicated Super Mario World section?”, as though it weren’t obviously already part of the “Classic Mario” family. Sure it’s a step up from Mario 1-3, the graphics and music are a bit nicer.. but it’s still so blatantly part of the “old batch” that trying to create one little specialised “forum island” for it is not only super disorganised, but pointless. The fact that some enemies behave/appear slightly differently and the music/texturing is all-new doesn’t change that.

 

Hell, at a glance, having 8 whole forums (not counting subforums!) dedicated to the Classic half of the Doom series is already more than enough. Why would one random entry in the series be given this preferential treatment? It only makes sense once every Classic Doom game is given their own dedicated section.. As things stand, Doom 1, 2, and Final Doom also don’t have their own sections.

 

If the amount of wads and mods/general threads about Doom64 start getting to the point where they’re clogging other sections of the forum with their sheer frequency, I feel like that would be a different story. I frankly don’t understand this push to divorce Doom64 from the other “Classic Doom” games though :( that just means it’s sort of floating off in no man’s land, because it sure as shit doesn’t belong in the “Newfangled Doom” family, nor does it belong in the “side games” family.

 

If a family has 4 kids and 3 of them love wearing bright blue polo shirts but one is totally emo, that doesn’t suddenly sever their genetic lineage, lol.

I think it's more that Doom 64 topics, other than the source port stuff, tends to end up in Console Doom rather than the other sections. Yes, Doom 64 news is brought up where it's made. I don't seriously disagree with this, but it does feel a little bit like Doom 64 is off in its own little corner and I dunno why it has to be. But that's why I didn't immediately endorse the idea because there's just not that many topics relating to it to make much sense ultimately.

[sophsoph316]

I mean honestly, to me it's as distinct of a Doom title as Doom 3 or Doom 4, so sure why not?

[Faceman2000]

6 hours ago, Doomkid said:

the only actual playthroughs I've ever done of the game were in various attempts to bring it over to the PC - Absolution

I didn’t know you were involved in the development of Absolution! Any fun tidbits from the development worth sharing? Since it was the first way I played D64, I’ve always been fascinated with it.

[Doomkid]

Sorry Faceman, I just meant I played it more thoroughly than the actual Doom64 cart version, not that I had any development involvement. I wish I had that feather in my cap but sadly not!

[Average]

@Doomkid , Heh, no worries.  It was just a throwaway bit of self deprecation. :)

 

[cybdmn]

On 7/10/2022 at 5:37 AM, Faceman2000 said:

I didn’t know you were involved in the development of Absolution! Any fun tidbits from the development worth sharing? Since it was the first way I played D64, I’ve always been fascinated with it.

 

I think beside Kaiser there is nobody active on DW who was involved in the Absolution TC. You can try to ask Elbryan, who hosted the forums for the development, he isn't active here anymore, i think. But he have an Youtube-channel.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/elbryan42

 

But he haven't uploaded anything in years.