Bring Collector back (or what new categories do you want to see?)

[Decay]

As someone who played pvp before starting speedrunning, collector has a certain appeal to me. Collecting all the weapons (and keys?) of a map could be a really fun movement exercise.

 

Wads with short maps could also benefit from a collector run.

 

If the rules in the past were not clear, IMO that's not a great reason to discontinue collector. Rules have changed before and can change again to clarify things, which would not invalidate older demos.

 

As for other categories

1: Normalize other difficulties

+Opens up maps for less skilled players

+Makes demo submission more accessible

 

-Potentially a lot of archive work :(

-Not a lot of wads actually make substantial differences between skills. Maybe skill 0 as "IM-Reckless" category since you can absorb a lot of hits and dish out a lot of damage/ammo.

 

2: NM Pacifist

+Challenge+++

 

-NM runs fucking suck

 

3: UV-Slow (turbo -50 no strafing, allow attacks)

+kinda relaxing

+opens up a lot of maps Stroller proper might not be able to achieve

 

-might be too niche for some

 

 

 

What do you want to see?

Edited July 23, 2022 by Decay

[kvothesixstring]

Tank: It's Stroller but max. Turbo 50, no strafing, all kills (all secrets?). It's surprisingly fun. A good challenge especially dodging cyber rockets @Rayziik knows a thing or two about that. Some secrets in modern wads require movement speeds that you just can't really achieve in stroller so I think that requiring all secrets might be a headache for runners. 

 

Ya also NM Pacifist.

[Grazza]

Ever since its inception, this forum has always been a place to post demos of absolutely any type of category you wish (including "advanced" port or "incompatible" demos if you see fit for whatever reason). So you should feel free to post anything here that you wish to record.

 

While closely linked with this forum, DSDA is an external site with its own set of rules, and while you may wish to consider how your demos will be classified (or rejected) there, it does not set the rules for this forum.

 

[Decay]

Perhaps I should've been more specific for DSDA rather than just this forum. While that it is true one can submit any kind of demo, being categorized as "other" on DSDA may be seen as "less valued" or more likely "no-value". This discussion thread is to discuss what kinds of additional categories on DSDA you think could be valuable and/or fun.

[Billa]

Not to be a downer. But I don't think we really need any other categories on dsdarchive, the table as it is has some clear meme categories that rarely get run (NoMo100s isn't even filled for Doom2.wad) and I'm not sure adding UV-tank or NM-pacifist to the archive would entice people to run them... I do love watching weird categories, it's always novel and interesting to see what people can do with them. But there isn't any precedent for a category that really clearly needs to be added, and IDK if there would be any competition on these.

 

I'm fine as it is with novelty runs being shuffled under the "Other" category. They only really exist as memes to show off an interesting trick/strategy and it's cool that they're easily viewable on the archive but I couldn't imagine seeing empty "ITYTD", "HNTR", "HMP", "UV-Tank" tables on every single PWAD. Lol

 

NM-Pacifist is already kind of there with the "Also pacifist!" tag and I'm fine with it staying that way... it's still just a special category of NM-speed runs. And deliberately running NM-Pacifist seems like the most excruciating experience lol, RNG + RNG.

 

Happy to see more novelty runs but going through the effort of restructuring the archive to accommodate 6 runs doesn't seem likely :P

[GarrettChan]

Maybe we have a chance to have a minor category, other than Other. Not sure how annoying it is.

 

The way to handle it is still probably "Also Pacifist!" or "Also Reality!" kind of deal or things will get very messy. I do say people can do whatever they want, and probably these niche things can still at least have a one line comment on it at some point.

 

Hey, at least we should run more Ballerina :P

[BigBoy91]

While I do enjoy meme runs and shit like that, I think we're good as it is. I'm cool with just "Other" and maybe mentioning what your intention was (IE: Stroller Max, Indirect Max, etc) in the text file. Don't want it to get too convoluted. It would be cool to have events where we do unconventional runs. That might give them more validity.

Edited July 23, 2022 by BigBoy91

[Shepardus]

I sometimes wish there were a "UV 100S" category, i.e. NM 100S but on UV, or UV Max without the kills requirement. Would be nice for the maps where UV Speed skips all the good parts of a map, UV Max is tedious, and NM 100S is too hard. Which, granted, may not be a whole lot of maps, but I still think it'd be cool.

[4shockblast]

Honestly, I've said this before, but I'm not opposed to any new categories on DSDA, but first we have to make it possible to track them without expanding the table. Basically, it would be fine if most categories stayed hidden for a WAD at least, and then you could manually show them if you wanted to. On a player page, maybe they could all show up, although it's kinda complicated when you have tags like Reality, since UV-Speed Reality for example, doesn't need to appear for every UV-Speed because often it's trivial. But ideally, it wouldn't all be in Other, but also the tables would be easy enough to browse; maybe one day, this will be possible. :p

 

Otherwise, more on topic; I think Tyson with -fast is probably one of the categories I would kinda want to see promoted on DSDA. It's got quite a bit of history to it, and IMO, it's a pretty interesting category in terms of how it differs from regular Tyson.

Edited July 25, 2022 by 4shockblast

[Andrea Rovenski]

S O L O N E T (for maps that take advantage)

[Meowgi]

On 7/23/2022 at 8:58 AM, Billa said:

Not to be a downer. But I don't think we really need any other categories on dsdarchive, the table as it is has some clear meme categories that rarely get run (NoMo100s isn't even filled for Doom2.wad) and I'm not sure adding UV-tank or NM-pacifist to the archive would entice people to run them... I do love watching weird categories, it's always novel and interesting to see what people can do with them. But there isn't any precedent for a category that really clearly needs to be added, and IDK if there would be any competition on these.

 

I'm fine as it is with novelty runs being shuffled under the "Other" category. They only really exist as memes to show off an interesting trick/strategy and it's cool that they're easily viewable on the archive but I couldn't imagine seeing empty "ITYTD", "HNTR", "HMP", "UV-Tank" tables on every single PWAD. Lol

 

NM-Pacifist is already kind of there with the "Also pacifist!" tag and I'm fine with it staying that way... it's still just a special category of NM-speed runs. And deliberately running NM-Pacifist seems like the most excruciating experience lol, RNG + RNG.

 

Happy to see more novelty runs but going through the effort of restructuring the archive to accommodate 6 runs doesn't seem likely :P

 

I'm super late to this thread, but I second every sentiment Billa posted above. That's not to say people shouldn't run their pet categories, but we really don't need more mainline/"official" categories on the archive.

 

In the spirit of memes though, I was always curious what a nomo run would look like without being able to move forward. I'm not sure what it could be called, but it would definitely be an odd category to optimize runs for.

[Electro Rage]

18 minutes ago, Meowgi said:

In the spirit of memes though, I was always curious what a nomo run would look like without being able to move forward. I'm not sure what it could be called, but it would definitely be an odd category to optimize runs for.

NoMoDrunk?

[Gosu_Noob]

I am also late to this conversation, but I'm pretty sure everyone that has spoken with me knows what I would like to see.

 

NP (Nightmare Pacifist)

 

Unless I am mistaken, this should also be easy to implement since there would just be one check for whether the run was pacifist or not and whether it was skill 5? I may be horribly wrong though. Otherwise, if it does not already happen, perhaps a tag on those NM runs that are P as well would be nice to differentiate them.

 

Outside of that, I completely agree with Billa's statements.

[xit-vono]

The problem with nightmare pacifist is that a lot of maps will remain undone, and we'll mostly get short or easy maps where pacifist doesn't make much difference.

[taedev]

I might like to see the Other category organized differently, like splitting it into 'Skills 0-3' category, 'Incompatible' category, and 'Other'.

 

I don't think there's a point to adding 'Tank.' As much as I like strollers, it's not possible to finish my favorite level The Chasm on stroller, with all kills and secrets (running is required). Stroller is already a restrictive category, and Tank is too restrictive to be a separate category.

Edited November 30, 2022 by taedev
spelling

[dew]

On 9/2/2022 at 5:03 AM, xit-vono said:

The problem with nightmare pacifist is that a lot of maps will remain undone, and we'll mostly get short or easy maps where pacifist doesn't make much difference.

This is the real issue for any "meme" category and no amount of voting or filtering will pick the right ones. The only possible solution that comes to my mind puts onus on the archive developers, sorry, heh. Basically, a frame to specify notable categories per wad, not per archive. There are wads where collector is absolutely a legit category with great, unique runs/demos, whereas the vast majority is uninteresting and just busywork.

 

So basically what you want, imo, is specifying wads where the expanded tables make sense, and having the fringe categories rolled into "other" everywhere else.

 

Of course the nuclear option is specifying this per-map, but that seems like a good way to hand out a few heart attacks.

[Maribo]

On 7/23/2022 at 12:23 AM, Grazza said:

Ever since its inception, this forum has always been a place to post demos of absolutely any type of category you wish (including "advanced" port or "incompatible" demos if you see fit for whatever reason). So you should feel free to post anything here that you wish to record.

 

While closely linked with this forum, DSDA is an external site with its own set of rules, and while you may wish to consider how your demos will be classified (or rejected) there, it does not set the rules for this forum.

This is a pretty delayed post to make (and somewhat off-topic for this thread itself), but it crossed my mind today that with the reorganization work done on this forum, it might have come across that the sentiment in that old welcome thread has become lost... I'd like to be clear and say that I hope that's not the case.

My stance (and dew and vdgg as well, to my knowledge) is still that demos of any kind are welcome. When I was rewriting the welcome thread and getting work done on splitting some of the old conversation-based threads out of the main forum, along with renaming the top level forum... I think that rename might have been a bit of a mistake, calling it Speed Demo Submissions makes it seem like it's intended to be an all-business-no-nonsense "post your demos for DSDA" forum, which well... there's no denying that it's generally assumed that anything you post is intended for DSDA, but we don't want to cast away cool demos that might not be DSDA material. Replacing the welcome thread with something more streamlined and less... well, that thread is really interesting but it is very much a wall of text and a lot of it is old information that is outdated or not material that fits the theme of a new player learning about the process of running and submitting demos. The new thread was intended to be a quick-and-dirty "here's some basic information and bats that work", with more detailed info and nuances further down for players who remain interested.

 

But yeah, I believe that demos of any kind should be posted if the runner so desires, whether that's collector runs that won't make it to DSDA or incompatible GZDoom runs, or whatever else. And I guess I'd like to ask everyone in general if there's anything in the current setup that goes against this sentiment, or if there are any issues with the way this forum currently operates. The two big things on the docket at the moment are:
1) doing something about the "where do i post my demo thread", which is... not super feasible to keep up to date anymore, at least manually
2) creating some kind of practical equivalent to the doom movement bible, which focuses on methods and how to execute tricks (and other stuff like compat differences), rather than explaining why they work

- but aside from those things, there's not much I'm aware of in terms of issues, so please let me know.

[MikeTheMerc]

If this thread's still active, then I have an idea: finish the level with the total percentage of kills, items and secrets adding up to at least 100% (yes, this is a reference to that one contest from like 2018 or whenever).

[BigBoy91]

I do kinda like the idea of pacifist with 100% secrets (sightseer?) becoming a thing, considering how much I like the pacifist category. I dunno! Could be fun. I mean, UV Max, NM 100s, and NoMo 100s exist.

Edited February 17, 2023 by BigBoy91

[Akash kumar]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:01 AM, Decay said:

Perhaps I should've been more specific for DSDA rather than just this forum. While that it is true one can submit any kind of demo, being categorized as "other" on DSDA may be seen as "less valued" or more likely "no-value". This discussion thread is to discuss what kinds of additional categories on DSDA you think could be valuable and/or fun.