The Power Rankings: TNT: Evilution

[Thelokk]

8 hours ago, General Roasterock said:

Please do go on, I’m looking for that angle that explains what exactly went on here.

 

3 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Seconding. I'd love to see the architectural concepts which may have inspired... whatever these tunnels are.

 

Literature on the subject is endless, any departure point is as good as any other, but it all finds its roots in Sixties-Seventies counterculture, and its ramifications into architecture and, more specifically, formats for sustainable and eco-friendly living. 

One of the ideas a number of avantgarde architectural studios from those years (i.e. Superstudio) was to have these organic, eco-friendly structures that would develop partially above-ground, and then dig under as some sort of 'human hive' or 'human ant colony', as a mean to colonize in a eco-friendly manner large swathes of unclaimed land in the American deserts, mostly the Mid-West. For a large part it remained an on-paper project, and that which was actually built (Arcosanti comes to mind) bear little resemblance, though I do see some resemblance between Habitat's first few above ground rooms and a few of the 'organic but not so organic' designs from that time (lots of geometric shapes, cement and flat, brutalist-like surfaces).

 

 

 

Of course Doom is Doom, not an architectural digest, so one has to accomodate, but let's say that Habitat makes me think of real-world habitats more than, say, Steel Works makes me think of steelworks. 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Thelokk

[General Roasterock]

15 hours ago, Thelokk said:

Literature on the subject is endless, any departure point is as good as any other, but it all finds its roots in Sixties-Seventies counterculture, and its ramifications into architecture and, more specifically, formats for sustainable and eco-friendly living. 

One of the ideas a number of avantgarde architectural studios from those years (i.e. Superstudio) was to have these organic, eco-friendly structures that would develop partially above-ground, and then dig under as some sort of 'human hive' or 'human ant colony', as a mean to colonize in a eco-friendly manner large swathes of unclaimed land in the American deserts, mostly the Mid-West.

 

...

Of course Doom is Doom, not an architectural digest, so one has to accomodate, but let's say that Habitat makes me think of real-world habitats more than, say, Steel Works makes me think of steelworks. 

  I did a chunk of research on the visuals last night, mostly leading to dead ends involving basic tunnel systems or bunkers. Arcosanti looks closest to what this map does, the real world structure is made up of what seems like a variety of different geometric ideas, fragmented and put back together into one community. I of course wouldn't try and hold Doom one-to-one in terms of realism, but I feel it does succeed in how the "hills" feel layered in a similar way to an artificial clearing. It looks difficult to navigate, only truly open and evident to those inducted by the idea, dedicating themselves to that settlement. I guess what I'm saying is that, much like the settlement, it requires a hell of a lot of faith.  

  Honestly I find myself stretching a lot to divulge into this topic, not only from inexperience, but also attempting to frame it in a way that would fit the level. If Habitat played exactly the same, but was instead a blocky brutalist nightmare, how much does it matter. Would fighting a group of Spectres in a valley while completely invincible significantly change if it was indoors? A lot of what I'm trying to read into from authors is a lot more than intent solely on visual inspiration, or else I would feel exactly the same about Steel Works or Hanger or the like. I don't exaggerate saying that the interpretation of Habitat here is invaluable to understanding what the hell happened with it, but I don't think a misunderstanding of locale really pardons the state it's in after so many other model citizens exist alongside it. 

 

Spoiler

Also I feel betrayed that none of you told me to wait a day.

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by General Roasterock
cleared up confusing wording, put spoiler of new knowledge

[Andromeda]

Further proof that Habitat's actually good, not many Doom levels have a day in its honour ;)

[Screamapillar]

On 10/3/2022 at 12:25 AM, Thelokk said:

While I could go on for a while about this often unjustly maligned oddball of a map, I will just point out how closely it plays on its name: the tunnel section closely resembles many of the various underground human habitat proposals for eco-living that came out of the Seventies' speculative architecture movement. Relatively rare for a map to actually evoke this well what it's named after. 

Is that a joke or are you serious? I'm I couldn't tell, because I have no idea what 70's speculative achitecture movement is.

On 10/3/2022 at 1:22 AM, LadyMistDragon said:

I mean, just look into Christopher Buteau's other released map "Spaceport." Even in an unfinished mess like this he obviously made an effort at creating semi-realistic spaces, although not without resisting the impulse to throw some weirdness in there every now and then (the chapel, more specifically). This was the era of Biosphere One, so someone with sufficent awareness could well have had that in mind.

You mean Shufflecraft from Icarus, right? He didn't make any other map beyond these two. And yeah, that map is really good, especially chapel section and underground of spaceship. Begining is really dificult however, especially because you have bare minimum of everything.

[General Roasterock]

  Not related exactly to what I'm talking about here, but I took the suggestion from @ChopBlock223 for one more round.

 

Spoiler

 

  I ran through one continuous UV playthrough of Evilution with saves, and every map maxed (with exception to Administration Center and Mount Pain because I couldn't be fucked after this many times playing them) just to see if I was truly missing something from taking such a specific approach to what I was looking for. Let me gather exactly what happened with the maps, and my insight. 

  One thing that I see happening in a lot of continuous playthroughs of WADs is a natural phenomenon I've come to call the Shotgun Subjugation of Gameplay (or SSG). Unless there is some kind of laser tight restriction of ammo that could leave maps either very specific in how they have their fights resolved, or simply end up being unbalanced, then any portion of non-demanding combat is answered by the Super Shotgun. The elements make sense, bullet weaponry isn't effective enough to preserve speed on anything tougher than Zombiemen, rockets and plasma are usually much sparser in supply, and authors seem to have no problem dumping shells into incidental scenarios. Think about the Shell Box for a bit, no other ammo pickup gives the proportion of munition that a Shell Box does, a whopping one-fifth of shell capacity with a Backpack. For a weapon as strong as the Super Shotgun, that is a massive supply. Why not make use of it? This was exactly my mindset as well: BFG anything Baron and above, rockets and plasma before I acquired it in Dead Zone, and chop down anything else with my vault of shells. For the most part it worked. I would only switch to rockets if I wanted to speed things up.

  I am quite surprised as to how similar the WAD was overall, even with my full supply for the entire run. There were of course some exceptions:

• Wormhole was drastically easier, as having a Super Shotgun for the opening takes tons of weapon collection stress off, as well making any bulkier demons less tiresome.
• Prison's Plasma Rifle has now been bolstered to near full capacity by the time you pick it up thanks to backpacks, as well as the now useful Cell Pack secret in Power Control.
• Using Plasma in Stronghold is not the most revolutionary tactic, but is a satisfying "get out of jail free card" to answer some hordes. 
• Having to start Central Processing with any health detriment is very rough, as health pickups in the office section are fleeting no matter how many guns you are carrying.

  Otherwise, with the exception of my early strategy being wholesale replaced with SSG, the maps played out very similarly. I don't know if that speaks more to how I approach resource management, or how much looser the IWADs are when it comes to combat fun, or maybe the amount of communication between the team as to how these maps would actually interact with each other in this sense. It's most likely a combination of all three, and I still hold the stance that the wide variety of locale and ideas that made up Team TNT, with further evidence of that provided in the Mark Snell video not long ago, made any consistency beyond design resources far too difficult to implement in comparison to something akin to the original Dooms. 

[Nefelibeta]

Regarding how the levels play, this is basically common for 90s maps. Extremely relying on sparsely placed incidental combat to keep the players in your map, and you can obviously sense that most of the time, not a lot of thought was put into the gameplay itself, aside from probably a few nasty traps or troublesome boss monsters. This is also why plutonia is a god damn breath of fresh air.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Nefelibeta

[Thelokk]

1 hour ago, General Roasterock said:

with further evidence of that provided in the Mark Snell video

 

That was more or less my takeaway from the video too - that they just kinda ordered the map by difficulty, rather than crafting an actual progression in weaponry / enemy placement. 

 

I don't want to be too hard on them: it certainly is the lesser of many possible evils, and Plutonia does it better simply because coordinating two people is magnitudes easier than coordinating thirty. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Thelokk

[Alfonso]

Aside from Wormhole and Prision, the biggest change and offender between pistol start and continuous play is map 29 River Styx.

That map is unenjoyable to UV max pistol start. You'll see when you get to it.

[General Roasterock]

1 hour ago, Thelokk said:

Plutonia does it better simply because coordinating two people is magnitudes easier than coordinating thirty. 

I definitely get your point, but TNT had only around 20 people, still a huge team to negotiate, but some of the authors could have at least made an attempt to coordinate their own maps considering people like O'Brien and Sieben had a couple back to back, even if they didn't know the lineup at the time. 

 

1 hour ago, Alfonso said:

Aside from Wormhole and Prision, the biggest change and offender between pistol start and continuous play is map 29 River Styx.

That map is unenjoyable to UV max pistol start. You'll see when you get to it.

Hate to show my hand, but I already made it through all the pistol starts. I'm just taking my time proofing all of these writeups to make sure they're exactly what I want to say.

 

Also, about River Styx.

Spoiler

I did cheat just to get back here because I'm not playing this map again.

I have no idea how many people know about this thing.

[General Roasterock]

Map 23: Lunar Mining Project

 

  Giving a new outlook to the flavor expanse of a Saltine cracker, Lunar Mining Project is one circular techbase hallway, and one small system of caves. Homogeny is abound, as 75% of the maps demons are hitscanners, and the entire thing is coated in dull brown. 

  The most interesting point of the map is the Arch-Vile in the courtyard that can attack you from the very start of the map. It’s an interesting setup to have it wandering outside, being able to target you through the many windows in the base, and is another powerful layer of pressure on the navigation. This is intensified by the fact that the only weapons powerful enough to handle it quickly are also outside, separated from the player by Red Doors. The whole area is optional, but is the only way to properly gear up for the multiple higher end threats. 

  This area is where the significance of the map ends. The rest is amateur barracks, amateur computer stations, amateur caves which I assume are what the neatly detailed residential space inhabitants were mining, and threat primarily based off of teleporting Revenants. With only a handful of Green Armors, the Chaingunners will have no issue chipping away at your health, and the huge amount of free roaming Lost Souls have access to you for what feels like the entire map.

  I will give credit where credit is due, the lighting through the courtyard’s windows is a nice touch, and the altar presenting the Invulnerability is on brand for the quirkiness of this mapset, everything else is either lifeless and arbitrary, or grinding against an average run. It is very easy to get stuck in the cave system if a demon stands in the way of one of the vertical shafts that Lunar Mining Project expects you to fall through, and there is neither an explosive weapon to clear out the otherwise unreachable blockage at this point in the map, nor a reason to return to the winding tunnels after you escape with the key. The whole final fight is the best note that a map like this could end on, stuffing the original loop with hitscanners and Revenants to make the push back to the exit more exciting. 

  “Bye Bye American Pie” feels like it just wasn’t replaced. While the other songs from the original id releases were at least shuffled into a map where they had a chance at having purpose, this one offers little to actually accommodate the track, and vice versa. 

  Above all, Lunar Mining Project is an exercise in boredom. It is a bland map that is over as soon as it starts. While it is structurally satisfying and lacks egregiousness, its worst crime is simply being uninteresting, which is damning in a set known for individuality.

[Thelokk]

5 minutes ago, General Roasterock said:

Map 23: Lunar Mining Project

 

  Giving a new outlook to the flavor expanse of a Saltine cracker, Lunar Mining Project is one circular techbase hallway, and one small system of caves. Homogeny is abound, as 75% of the maps demons are hitscanners, and the entire thing is coated in dull brown. 

  The most interesting point of the map is the Arch-Vile in the courtyard that can attack you from the very start of the map. It’s an interesting setup to have it wandering outside, being able to target you through the many windows in the base, and is another powerful layer of pressure on the navigation. This is intensified by the fact that the only weapons powerful enough to handle it quickly are also outside, separated from the player by Red Doors. The whole area is optional, but is the only way to properly gear up for the multiple higher end threats. 

  This area is where the significance of the map ends. The rest is amateur barracks, amateur computer stations, amateur caves which I assume are what the neatly detailed residential space inhabitants were mining, and threat primarily based off of teleporting Revenants. With only a handful of Green Armors, the Chaingunners will have no issue chipping away at your health, and the huge amount of free roaming Lost Souls have access to you for what feels like the entire map.

  I will give credit where credit is due, the lighting through the courtyard’s windows is a nice touch, and the altar presenting the Invulnerability is on brand for the quirkiness of this mapset, everything else is either lifeless and arbitrary, or grinding against an average run. It is very easy to get stuck in the cave system if a demon stands in the way of one of the vertical shafts that Lunar Mining Project expects you to fall through, and there is neither an explosive weapon to clear out the otherwise unreachable blockage at this point in the map, nor a reason to return to the winding tunnels after you escape with the key. The whole final fight is the best note that a map like this could end on, stuffing the original loop with hitscanners and Revenants to make the push back to the exit more exciting. 

  “Bye Bye American Pie” feels like it just wasn’t replaced. While the other songs from the original id releases were at least shuffled into a map where they had a chance at having purpose, this one offers little to actually accommodate the track, and vice versa. 

  Above all, Lunar Mining Project is an exercise in boredom. It is a bland map that is over as soon as it starts. While it is structurally satisfying and lacks egregiousness, its worst crime is simply being uninteresting, which is damning in a set known for individuality.

 

I think I'm going to replay that map because, in all honesty, I can't remember a single thing about it. Which proves your point, I guess. 

[General Roasterock]

6 minutes ago, Thelokk said:

 

I think I'm going to replay that map because, in all honesty, I can't remember a single thing about it.

I'm kind of cheating too, having the editor open when I write these to make sure that I'm not blatantly misinforming. It gives stuff like Lunar Mining Project an advantage when it comes to presence that I don't feel it would otherwise have.

 

Also probably gonna go ahead and post Quarry sometime today too, it's been too long.

[General Roasterock]

Map 24: Quarry

 

  Quarry is embarrassing. The meme of Habitat falls on deaf ears when maps like Quarry exist in the same set. It’s offensive in its take on what makes Doom great, and painful to play through.

  The visual presentation of this map is several clashing types of rock, leading through lava laden reds to decrepit grays and earthy browns. The constant tunnels are lined with midtexture gaps in the rocks, doing nothing but blocking the player’s view from the hitscanners that parade within them. Every jutting piece of environment lacks thought put behind it. Take the Invulnerability room for example. The sensible use of this powerup would be to have a path to it that allows you to handily kill all the demons in the room, but the only way to get to it without being bodyblocked is by killing all the demons in the room. Its existence is self defeating.

  The monster count in Quarry is anemic, providing yet another loose spritzing of hitscanners amongst four Revenants and a Hell Knight. The only threat comes to those impatient enough to want to blast through the central basin with the two metal towers, not understanding that this will only turn them into easy target practice. Taking either of the two teleports in the caves before clearing out this half of the map is death, as not only will you be teleported into a hole where either Chaingunners or a Revenant can shoot straight down into your immobile body, but that platform will then raise you into the line of fire for nearly every hitscanner in the valley. Playing the map safely requires tedium in picking off all the zombies from the spastically drawn vantage points near the start.

  The secrets are laughable, one being a Radiation suit in a mineshaft where the only other bits of damaging floor are the opposite shaft and Invulnerability room. The Super Shotgun is hidden behind a shootable wall with the only tell being a strangely blinking sector, and this secret for some reason hides another secret elevator that holds nothing but one more box of shells. These are the items that are hidden, and yet there is a Plasma Rifle simply sitting behind a rock for anyone to take.

  The burden placed on the player through this map is that either most of the sections don’t matter or have their use sucked out by the lazy construction of combat. It’s very hard to make the Invulnerability worthwhile, and I found myself consistently skipping the Plasma Rifle simply because of how out of the way it is. However, for any UV-Max players, pieces like the singular Imps in the tower teleports, or the Revenant cave in the far northwest, all have to take up special slots in the pathing for the map without any form of satisfactory reward.

  “Between Levels”, as shocking as it may seem, makes this level seem even smaller than it already is. There isn’t a terrible lot done with the track, mostly relying on the drumkit to create any kind of atmosphere. There’s no presentation of the operation of the setting, or the infestation of hell on the settlement. It just feels really campy.

  Outside of the fact that it is kind of a real place, I can give no reason as to why Quarry should be in Evilution. It’s a throwaway experience with no brains, brawn, or passion. It’s one of the worst of a bad bunch.

[Screamapillar]

I'll admit, I like Lunar Mining Project. Maybe after playing Habitat, which just looks so goddamn ugly, it's nice to see something that actually resembles what it is named after. Living quaters of soldiers (as few of them as there is), ruins of temple in courtyard area and mines are really nice touch. Compared to Habitat it looks like Going Down. But otherwise, there is nothing to brag about. I feel like this was meant to be placed earlier in levels, like map 2 or 3, but in slot 23 it's just off. I would call it a welcome break, but following level is not much harder than this one. I nevery liked Bye Bye American Pie much, so TNT Midi Pack comes handy here with Doyle's Return of the Trouble, which is such a cute, playful track, that actually really fits with levels atmosphere.

Quarry is quite ugly, boring, and only thing I like is how hell part blends with tech base part. 

13 hours ago, General Roasterock said:

 “Between Levels”, as shocking as it may seem, makes this level seem even smaller than it already is. There isn’t a terrible lot done with the track, mostly relying on the drumkit to create any kind of atmosphere. There’s no presentation of the operation of the setting, or the infestation of hell on the settlement. It just feels really campy.

I think that's because you mainly remember it from Focus, which itself is very cramped level. Unfortunately, not even new Lippeth's Terror Firma can save it for me, it's just bad.

[General Roasterock]

Map 25: Baron's Den

 

  There are points in my review process where I have to step back and make sure that what I am feeling isn’t done sheerly out of unknowing hyperbole. I need to make sure that my criticism isn’t overblown because of emotional response. After sitting through Baron’s Den three separate times, I can safely deduce that it is truly terrible. 

  If you were to take away the spaghetti strand corridors that exist as means of traversal, it’s a dozen rooms that have no bearing on the visual cohesion of one another, each acting as their own separate mini maps. The only linkage they have are the stretched out dirt covered tunnels that are almost always underlit and empty. Every single room is uglier than the last, each consisting of a circular hold of rocks and lava, with no clear eye for texturing. The Yellow Skull room with the water stands out being particularly ugly, putting large vats of molten rock right next to all the blue liquid in a rough contrasting manner. Then there’s room such as the crackling stairs, with a yellow coated ceiling giving way to a skybox inches above it. Some areas act as cavers, some act as temples, some act as established mining operations, none act together.

  Despite being called Baron’s Den, the only Barons in the map appear at the very end. The rest of the monsters feel borderline randomly placed, with space consumption being the only factor. This leads to a larger number of Arachnotrons than usual, placed either as dug in sniping turrets or freely roaming in the lava. Spectres take up the entire width of the corridors, hitscanners take up space on the sparse lifts that exist, and Cacodemons and Pain Elementals are stuck in enclosures where they have no way to fly upwards. The pitch black Blue Armor room only exists to reveal spatterings of weaker foes and yet another Arachnotron. The ending has the map throwing its hands up and giving up on any proper form of monster placement at all, as the BFG trap pits you against a coverless Arch-Vile that can very well attack before you can reach the weaponry capable of killing it quickly. 

  The secret structure is a mess. Every single marked sector is the door frame in between the sector that holds the item or teleport pad and the rest of the level. It is incredibly easy to skip over the frame and completely miss the actual secret sector while still reaping all of the rewards, especially with the Partial Invisibility since the secret sector is marked on the edge of a teleporter. It takes a conscious effort to slow down and actually touch the sector before going through the teleporter, completely neutering any speed this level could gather. 

  The agony of putting up with Baron’s Den is far surpassed by the boredom of attempting to figure it out. There is not an element in this map that doesn’t either insult the player’s intelligence or work against the flow of the game. It doesn’t belong in an IWAD.

[Thelokk]

1 hour ago, General Roasterock said:

Map 25: Baron's Den

 

  

 

As much of an apologist for the latter half of TNT as I am, I can't help but agree. Definitely a low point, it's a map that simply feels rushed and hodgepodge, and not in the 'endearing abstraction' way of a, say, map23 or map26.

[ChopBlock223]

Baron's Den is indeed one of the biggest dumpsterfires in the set. I'm surprised you made no mention of how one of the keys you need is hidden in a room that's behind a fake wall in a small and anonymous little dirt path, where your one clue to figure this out is to hear the shotgun baldies on the other side, and either stand around and get shot, realizing where this fire is coming from, and not immediately turning back without realizing this space is there and reachable.

 

Shades of later level Eternal Doom, if Eternal Doom was sinfully fucking ugly.

[General Roasterock]

4 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

I'm surprised you made no mention of how one of the keys you need is hidden in a room that's behind a fake wall in a small and anonymous little dirt path, where your one clue to figure this out is to hear the shotgun baldies on the other side, and either stand around and get shot, realizing where this fire is coming from, and not immediately turning back without realizing this space is there and reachable.

I guess the way I was assuming that hallway was going to be useful lead me to investigate that corner a bit harder. My scraping of the walls lead me to simply fall through, and the whole area does show up on the map, but it's still bad form to hide a significant piece of your map away behind a confusing number of layers like that.

[General Roasterock]

Map 26: Ballistyx

 

  Ballistyx is a map that actually feels like it is actually being absolved into hell. The atmosphere it manages to pull off with a rather limited setting is impressive, but flawed. 

  The visual motifs found in this map are somewhat varied, yet still have a linkage that makes them sensible. It gently moves from a marble temple at the start, to these repetitive lifts down into a mineshaft, continuing into glowing caves. These sections are not boring or overbearing, and are actually relevant to the level. The navigation is odd, since the entire map is corridors to different rooms, it is possible to simply go the wrong way and get blocked by a locked door after a good fifteen seconds of walking, meaning you’ll have to take the one way route all the way back to the correct progression point. Most of its easy backtracking is done by having a small portion of wall open, such as in the Blue Key room, and this can be seen as a cop out, as having a stone wall with door tracks isn’t conventional, but I feel that it works to the level’s advantage. 

  One thing I feel that benefits the visuals when it comes to an atmospheric hell level is how the majority of the map is free handed. Every cave is jagged and abnormal, land masses jut and retreat seemingly at random, these are features that fit with the texturing of having nothing but rocks making up your layout. I don’t feel that this level manages to keep up with the texture variety needed to maximize this ordered chaos, but it is serviceable for memorability. This is especially true in areas such as the flaming pit with the Lost Souls, and the outdoor crag filled with perched Imps.

  Combat is not very impressive, having a majority of the level rely on either drip feed monsters taking up space in the corridors or closets that open up unclearly. The area with the teleporter to the Yellow Skull has three pairs of these, one of which requires that you enter the oval shape from the back door, and another from the front, with both obviously needing triggering to Max the map. The Yellow Skull fight is surprisingly good at being a setpiece, with the hellish sky contrasting with all of the dirt and stone that the player is used to at this point. The torrent of fireballs that have to be negotiated in such a tight space is unique, and the heavy hitting Revenants and Hell Knights stand out well. This is one of my favorite fights in the WAD, it’s one of the few points where the difficulty truly flexes, and never to a point of being dismissal of players.

  “Blood Jungle” feels more grounded here than Deepest Reaches, perhaps simply due to the fact that Deepest Reaches isn’t grounded at all. The pacing of the intro fits with the darkness of the map, and it suffices to keep the action investing. The emptiness does hamper if a player is not clear on the intended route, which is an issue more related to the level than the choice of music, but still correlated.

  Ballistyx is perfectly fine. It’s dark, long, and a bit of a slog for newer players, but the accomplishments in ambience are not forgotten, and it does well in the few fields in which it takes strides.

[General Roasterock]

Map 27: Mount Pain

 

  It is worth stating in a very clear and direct manner: Mount Pain is the best map Drake O’Brien ever released, and avoids being a colossal fuck up by not being colossal. Every choice in this map feels maladjusted and strained for an indiscernible reason, and I can only see the map as a thought exercise for the player to approach at any angle he or she desires.

  I want to make it clear that I understand that the time period that this map was released was very different. I do not believe that “there wasn’t anything better at the time” is a valid excuse for map design being as poor as it is. Judging on history alone will only serve to ignore the accomplishments of today, and do a disservice to mappers with modern talent. Failing to learn 90s mapping means dooming to repeat it. Simply stating that it was “fine for the time” implies that there was no reason to improve beyond the constructed map. I am very happy with how maps today end up, how authors have a grasp on gameplay that turns Doom into a constant flow of action with next to no downtime, but I absolutely would, and do, change things to better contribute to that goal of perfection we all asymptotically approach all the time. That is why I can not say with a clear conscience that Mount Pain is good.

  Mount Pain is a whole handful of visual themes with no acknowledgement of each other or the level at large. It starts out in a wooden expanse lined with metal, then drains into a slime filled cavern tunnel, then moves into a square shaped techbase connected to a hellish lava river. It is four maps of thematics in one. Each of these sections are connected with long, flat, rectangular hallways that do the bare minimum to connect the map together, triggered by non sequiturs in line actions. Opening up the side passages that reveal the Shotgunner flame trenches requires that the player just walk into several of the nooks without explanation. Releasing the Arachnotrons with the Partial Invisibility requires the player to shoot the cages to have them raise slowly, revealing not only the enemies but a small visual issue involving the hackery that is needed to make it work. Getting to the Blue Key involves going through the Red Door, and crossing a singular line in order to open the cages that hold it, which then lets you use the key on the Blue Door that is directly behind the Red Door. The Yellow Key goes to a door that is not accessible until you acquire the Yellow Key, so it makes no sense for it to be locked if accessing it requires you to have the Yellow Key. Beyond nitpicks, navigation in general feels arbitrary and not well developed. Drake O’Brien loves to create height transitions that aren’t clear until you scrape by them, such as the stairs to the Chaingunner windows and the raising floor in the slime tunnels. None of the Key Doors are marked with any colors, so first timers have no indication until they attempt to pass through. Most of the front half is coated in brown and underlit. The only thing that stands out is the fact that nothing stands out.

  One section that demonstrates the extent of what puts the pain in Mount Pain is the path to the Red Key. It starts in this nearly pitch black cave with a path dividing to a narrow corridor and a dead end. Approaching the torch at the dead end will open a wall to a berserk, and what could be considered a shortcut if the floor didn’t take so long to raise. The westmost room of this system hides a Plasma Rifle, and the end of the tunnel adjacent has the Rocket Launcher, neither of which show up again in the map, so missing these means the map is entirely driven on the Super Shotgun, which is miserable considering the composition of the final stretch. One room halfway down the pipe holds the Computer Area Map in a secret, but every other stretch until the Red Key arena is nothing but brown MS paint scribble hallway darkened to near blindness, covered with damaging floor, sprinkled with a dozen Imps, and ever so slightly angled as if only to prevent a wallrun from speeding up the navigation. Presenting the Automap here seems like a troll, as if O’Brien knew how ridiculous this stretch was and wanted the player to react to how much of the caverns was left. This sixty seconds of straight line filled with nothing but the occasional Imp is below the standards of 90s community WADs. Anyone who is new to the map will end up underestimating the damaging floor expanse and not rationing their Radiation Suits correctly, and those experienced with it will simply sprint straight down the middle. This is without mentioning how hideous the walls, spider webs, and the now infamous “Disaster Area” textures are compared to the rest of the level. There is no fun to be had here because there is nothing to be had here whatsoever. 

  Even further on, the Red Key fight requires leaps in logic as well. Triggering the start requires that the player trip a line on top of a Green Armor, meaning that not only will people that manage to keep their armor full from the one at the pair of Arachnotrons be disincentivized to actually head in that direction, but people that don’t want to expend the pickup will not have a choice in order to release what amounts to a handful of hitscanners on top of a wall, followed by more hitscanners on top of a wall. The wave guarding the Red Key is Pinkies and Revenants, and the group that teleports in after picking it up is Chaingunners and Revenants, the latter of which being housed in the worst teleport closet I have ever seen created.

Spoiler

Look at this garbage.

  One wave of enemies is released by simply grabbing the Red Key, but the leftmost barrier separating the three Chaingunners requires that the player go up the stairs leading out of the area, likely leaving behind the enemies that have yet to teleport in. All of these demons are expected to teleport on two lines to one single spot, and any time that the single spot is blocked, such as by a demon that has just teleported to it, allows any of the Revenants or Chaingunners to simply walk over the lines and get stuck in the huge amount of space past it. Every run of this map I’ve had involves me going back to check on the Red Key arena to make sure that the rest of the demons have spawned in. I have to perform the job of making sure Mount Pain actually works. This is not a change of roles that should ever happen.

  Beyond going for any specific encounters developed in this map, an overarching problem is the lack of any substantial health resource. For the amount of hitscanners that wander the area around the Super Shotgun, the supply to recover from chip damage is incredibly low, and leads to a ton of combat that feels cheap and campy. Every significant encounter in a map without any health spheres involves Chaingunners, from the incidental wandering throughout the metal supports, to the techbase before the Yellow Key, to the singular pit of Hell at the end of the map. Due to the way hitscan is handled as a source of incoming damage, even the best players will be getting hurt consistently if they are not abusing cover, or simply ignoring every other monster. This is obliviousness of the roster for the rest of the game, and it is shocking that even this late into the WAD, this map still has fifty percent of its monster congregation comprised of Chaingunners and Imps.

  Everything past the Blue Door is O’Brien’s classic signature of a basic idea dragged through tetanus. Getting to the Yellow Key involves moving back and forth through similarly sized hallways lined with hitscanners. The one area I do find well done comes after the Yellow Key is acquired, as one of the previous rooms the player has passed through has changed to a more corrupted region, lined with flaming walls that weren’t alight previously, and damaging floor that arose before the return trip, revealing a Radiation Suit in the middle that wasn’t previously there, a very novel execution for the time. It’s the one idea that receives success, and even then it breaks simply by not going through the gap that opens after grabbing the Yellow Key because the only reason said gap exists is to work that mechanism. There are so many different ways to create functionally the same room change in a way that the player will trigger without fail that the only explanation for this is incompetence. 

  The outer barrier is a humongous border lined with damaging floor, Lost Souls, and six Chaingunners, with a singular other Radiation Suit nullifying the first of the problems. Multiple Cacodemons can easily get lost amongst the building where the player emerges, and can go in and out of the window separating the outside from the playable area at their leisure. Any Max players will have a less than enjoyable time negotiating the distance they can travel in this part, as well as the other previous points. This leads into a hellish crater accessible either by hitting a switch on the ridge, or a wall from the bottom level, the latter of which is completely unmarked. The crater is two individual platforms with a near random assortment of six enemies, including a Mancubus and an Arch-Vile, that leads to a jump to the exit. The only issue is the Arch-Vile, being far away enough to require substantial distance from cover to effectively target from the opposite high-rise. Of course there is the titular view of the peak from atop the exit box, which is the best part of the map by a mile. The view across the expanse of hell is nicely put together, and it could be seen as the actual entrance into the realm of torment for TNT. The relief of the map being over is divine to say the least, and it’s clear that the work on the setting was a cut above the rest of the run, but it does bring into question as to why the titular geography only comes into a clear view outside of the square fight for about seven seconds before a Lost Soul nudges you into the exit line. I’ve heard the hypothesis that the layered mountain isn’t Mount Pain at all, but rather the entire level was the navigation of the mountain, digging around through the tunnels and ruins on the inside. If that’s the case, then what is the point of the ten layer cake to begin with? Why is it such a monument when every other piece of nature out in the expanse is a Lego brick? I do not buy it. 

  “Into the Beast’s Belly” is way too short to be appropriate for Mount Pain. Having to hear the same synth loop ten or so times in such a roughly developed map grates into new eras of irritation. The action is not consistent enough to be supported by constant square wave and guitar riffs, and the dull moments as a result feel very inappropriate.

  The alienation of the player in every aspect is unbeknownst to most maps in the same manner that Mount Pain achieves. It evolves from poor and enters a field of bizarre that only it can exhibit. It’s a fantastic case study, quintessential TNT, and a nightmare to play. My reckless curiosity yearns for the next big comeback to be O’Brien solely to see what would happen.

Edited October 30, 2022 by General Roasterock
Failed to have a proper hyperlink carry over, so I'm going for the more direct approach for the closet.

[ChopBlock223]

Y'know, maybe some of the parts of TNT which I remember as "rough, but not like the worst thing ever" actually just is the nostalgia talking.

 

I think back to the "Disaster Area" and think it the worst part of the map, and like it'd be ok with its omission, but with more detailed descriptions here I start remembering parts which aren't very good either.

[Alfonso]

Still more enjoyable than Administration Center and Baron's Den.

Also you forgot to mention this map has the most enemies of any official classic doom iwad map (not counting Black Tower or maybe any of the Unity add-ons), including 42 lost souls.

[General Roasterock]

1 hour ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Y'know, maybe some of the parts of TNT which I remember as "rough, but not like the worst thing ever" actually just is the nostalgia talking.

My intent is absolutely not to undermine the enjoyment that you had with the WAD in the past. I think it would be wrong to rob that of people, and TNT definitely has angles of enjoyment in the form of uniqueness. Even if I'm seeing blemish, it's not absolute.

 

3 hours ago, Alfonso said:

Also you forgot to mention this map has the most enemies of any official classic doom iwad map (not counting Black Tower or maybe any of the Unity add-ons), including 42 lost souls.

You covered that for me back a couple pages or so when I erroneously put that title on Stronghold. I'm still on the fence for something beyond Ultimate Doom counting Lost Souls, but their presence is enough. I will say that I'm glad O'Brien showed restraint in not adding Pain Elementals to a map filled with the maximum Lost Souls already, but that's about it. 

 

I'm sitting on too many of these reviews, maybe not by the end of the month, but I'm gonna clear these out quick.

[ChopBlock223]

1 hour ago, General Roasterock said:

My intent is absolutely not to undermine the enjoyment that you had with the WAD in the past. I think it would be wrong to rob that of people, and TNT definitely has angles of enjoyment in the form of uniqueness. Even if I'm seeing blemish, it's not absolute.

Well, you really aren't killing it for me, I'll never hate TNT, because there are many parts of it that I absolutely love, such as Stronghold and Dead Zone, and overall the soundtrack.

 

You may not find Mill atmospheric like I do, but I love the tense and droning soundtrack, together with the large spaces and slow exploration, so some of the blemishes don't really bother me.

I like the giant hall at the end, huge and empty, I can positively hear the creaking and dusty old wood board floor echoing throughout the locale in my head as I carefully traverse it, feel the cold, hard, and dirty 'asphalt' (rough concrete?) wall as I stack up around the corner and survey around, the creaking floor giving me away no matter how slow and careful I move, and the cool yet musty air mixed with tar-like fumes from the rest of the facility filling my nostrils.

I already know the demons have heard me, and they're waiting in ambush, ready to flood in when I set off their trap, any second now the quiet dread and anticipation will transform into a cacophony of violent and angry noise, guns blazing and hellbeasts roaring.

 

Doom always had a strong Used Future aesthetic, where along with advanced plasma guns and cybernetics, you also have positively antique weapons and locales. TNT I feel hits that aspect harder at times for me with its texture usage, and I immerse myself into it more than the base game.

What is that giant empty hall in Mill? Was it once a storage space or some sort of factory floor some very long time ago? The simplistic construction and very rough and weathered state of the concrete suggests to me that this part of the complex was built in the very early days of this Jovian lunar base's life, possibly as some sort of temporary measure, not being used for very long as better and more refined locales would eventually be finished elsewhere, with other parts of this particular compound managing to stay in use or get repurposed for things that may still matter for what the UAC does here.

 

I am absolutely giving it all a bit of a pass in my own head because of nostalgia. TNT is a community project from the very early days of Doom mapping, an experimental one at that, and it really shows, some of these hairs are incredibly gray. I may be able to give some of it a pass because of being a product of its time, but you're very right that there's a lot in here which we'd consider bad design and which we wouldn't excuse in the 2020s. I would not feel like I was making a good contribution to a project if I submitted a level akin to Mt. Pain, nor would I feel like I was receiving a good one if it was a submission, there are a bunch of sections of it which I would insist to cut in entirety before even beginning to revamp the rest of it to try to fix it.

It's definitely not one of the maps which I remember with fondness, when reminded of how it actually was, I find myself agreeing that it's actually pretty bad, so I have to assume that nostalgia plays some sort of factor in how I just smoothed over this particularly rough part in my head and told myself it "wasn't THAT bad."

 

I never played Memento Mori in the 90s, so perhaps that's why I don't afford it some of the same leeway when it comes to the rougher parts of it or its sequel. I don't find myself immersed in it in the same way. Nonetheless, it still seems somewhat beloved, so it must have made enough positive impressions that at least veterans who played it a long time ago maybe make some of the same rationalizations as I do about the rough edges.

[General Roasterock]

23 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

You may not find Mill atmospheric like I do, but I love the tense and droning soundtrack, together with the large spaces and slow exploration, so some of the blemishes don't really bother me.

I like the giant hall at the end, huge and empty, I can positively hear the creaking and dusty old wood board floor echoing throughout the locale in my head as I carefully traverse it, feel the cold, hard, and dirty 'asphalt' (rough concrete?) wall as I stack up around the corner and survey around, the creaking floor giving me away no matter how slow and careful I move, and the cool yet musty air mixed with tar-like fumes from the rest of the facility filling my nostrils.

I already know the demons have heard me, and they're waiting in ambush, ready to flood in when I set off their trap, any second now the quiet dread and anticipation will transform into a cacophony of violent and angry noise, guns blazing and hellbeasts roaring.

 

Doom always had a strong Used Future aesthetic, where along with advanced plasma guns and cybernetics, you also have positively antique weapons and locales. TNT I feel hits that aspect harder at times for me with its texture usage, and I immerse myself into it more than the base game.

What is that giant empty hall in Mill? Was it once a storage space or some sort of factory floor some very long time ago? The simplistic construction and very rough and weathered state of the concrete suggests to me that this part of the complex was built in the very early days of this Jovian lunar base's life, possibly as some sort of temporary measure, not being used for very long as better and more refined locales would eventually be finished elsewhere, with other parts of this particular compound managing to stay in use or get repurposed for things that may still matter for what the UAC does here.

  This is easily the best explanation I've heard for Mill in the form of atmosphere, and I appreciate you tapping in to what made it stand out. I do admit that I have this exact same substitution thing with the Ultimate Doom, as I played that at a much younger age, and of course tried to make reason of its world. The titles do a ton of work in providing context for the spaces, and allowing our brains to take over from there, as mine did with Knee Deep in the Dead. Perhaps I was exposed to Swim with the Whales far too early, and my appreciation for the natural ways that the buildings came together was changed, altered into an entirely different perspective. I owe that WAD with a lot of what I value in a map, where it doesn't necessarily have to be a place I can grasp, but that quality can't stop it from being beautiful.

  I definitely reached Mill far too late, and instead of interpreting its texturing and position in the wider world, I see a Shotgun teleporting into my hands, and a Chaingunner shooting at me through a metal panel. Those that do have the time for the map will have a lot more to appreciate, but once the route is there, and you can quantify the tedium, that's where I start feeling remiss. 

  Also yes, considering that Plutonia does the bare minimum to even have music, TNT's music kicks ass by default. I'm still a bit iffy on the MIDI pack as a whole, but I've found a couple tracks that I love, like Deathwing's and decino's. 

 

[General Roasterock]

Map 28: Heck

 

  A level that is raw Hell, Heck is a gauntlet of different paths that all lead to a Skull Key for the exit. It presents itself as a challenge to take seriously, starting the player off between four perched Revenants, ripe to be picked off. The primary issue with it, however, is that this difficulty comes without confidence. It’s identity isn’t developed enough.

  To start, much of the visual inspiration is taken to the point of near plagiarism. The Yellow Skull path is painted in the exact same fashion as The Spirit World, down to the use of flaming red indentions in the rock walls lined with wood, glowing sections of cracks in the floor, and an assortment of floating skull rocks littered around the cavern. The Blue Skull path is a winding boring assortment of GSTONE hallways topped with red floors and ceilings akin to the section in The Courtyard. This lifting of entire texture suites hurts the memorability of these stretches, as they now have to fight with the originals for space in the player’s brain. The rest of the level is simply a flush of REDROCK, blending in to a wide variety of other hell levels that rely on that surface to portray the atmosphere appropriately. The most notable piece of geometry in the entire map is the entrance teleporter popularized in The Plutonia Experiment, which makes sense as this is a map from Milo Casali, but even that calls into question the portal as a Plutonia staple if it shows up anywhere the author works.

  Combat is surprisingly easy in Heck. There is a sufficient amount of punishment that can be delivered from a monster roster appropriate for the setting, but powerups, including two Megaspheres, are plentiful for recover. The map is so gorged with Lost Souls, that the Pain Elementals in the Yellow Skull route are completely harmless due to the limit, and the ambush of Revenants and Hell Knight throughout the entire backtrack are given way too much space to maneuver to dependably apply pressure. The Blue Skull route is pathetic, feeding the player to individual Shotgunners down rectangular corridors, occasionally dropping in a single Arch-Vile that can be cornered and rendered harmless. The Red Skull is the greatest challenge, as it is guarded by a turret Arch-Vile, and the rest of the monsters can easily rush a Rocket Launcher. This route has the ability to make the player comatose if it’s the last one chosen, as at this point I had usually been lulled into playing sloppy when it comes to handling a horde of Pinkies and later Revenants. What stagnates a lot of the fights is the fact that so much heavy weaponry is simply handed to you at the very start of the map. Both the Rocket Launcher and Plasma Rifle can be used to diffuse the entirety of each big ticket encounter, and even the Revenants at the start with proper positioning at any of the entrances on the sides. Rockets are very much bountiful for anyone that allows infighting to make a minimal mark on the combat. Nothing is truly set up with threat, any fight with more than a dozen monsters can be dodged with a wide berth. It’s satisfying for those that sign on with its shortcomings, but leaves quite a bit to be desired. 

  AimShootKill does much better with tension here than Habitat. There is a descent that this piece manages to capture that isn’t necessarily brought out only in the map. It’s another synth heavy piece, a noise that has grown on me in my time playing Doom, especially in Evilution. 

  Heck delivers on a tried and true rendition of Hell, but pulls punches when it comes to providing real difficulty. It leaves nothing to remember in the environment, putting all of its chips into fights that can’t hit hard enough to warrant thorough attention. There is clear missed potential, but it will be fine for those that need more of a transition.

[Alfonso]

This level is impossible in solo net with fast monsters ( UV plus in Unity port).

https://youtube.com/watch?v=XeAQVp2kaes

Otherwise good Casali level in singleplayer that wasn't removed from TNT and reused in Plutonia like their other submissions.

[Screamapillar]

Heck is my favorite level in late third of TNT. It's not difficult, it does have nice visuals, and I like idea that for all of keys you have to go through 3 different paths, while having ability to tackle any part you want to first. I agree that it almost plagiarizes from Doom 2 levels, these homages could be done more subtly.

Also, in Baron's Den, you forgot to mention what effect that 'DOOM' track have on this level.

[ChopBlock223]

Let's be real though, Plutonia is full of Doom and Doom 2 homages. Done better though.

[General Roasterock]

9 hours ago, Screamapillar said:

Also, in Baron's Den, you forgot to mention what effect that 'DOOM' track have on this level.

It has none, really. I stretched my imagination to try and find a reason that wasn't an arbitrary need for music for the map, and the only thing I can say on it is that it's not Adrian's Asleep. I felt it was better to just leave that part out than fumble about with my indifference.

9 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Let's be real though, Plutonia is full of Doom and Doom 2 homages. Done better though.

The Casalis in general were full of homages, spread across works far wider than just Plutonia. The fact that Go 2 It wasn't their only Entrway rewrite is pretty indicative of how they felt about the original IWADs. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by General Roasterock