[Up on idgames!] Thirty Monsters Challenge - Sixty-four maps from the community, for any MBF21 source port.

[MFG38]

41 minutes ago, Caleb13 said:

And GZdoom reports A LOT of geometry problems in some maps:

 

It likes to do that - it even reports some in IWAD maps. As long as those errors don't result in anything outright broken, they're really nothing much to worry about.

[Thelokk]

15 minutes ago, MFG38 said:

 

It likes to do that - it even reports some in IWAD maps. As long as those errors don't result in anything outright broken, they're really nothing much to worry about.

 

This - some cleanup could be nice (even in my own map) but errors seem almost entirely tied to missing textures on invisible sidedefs, so probably rather low on the priority list, especially considering GZ is not the target port.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Thelokk

[sandwedge]

Hey sorry I posted in the old, wrong thread, figured I would post it here for posterity:

 

 

[JaySmithen]

It was such a pleasure to make two maps for this awesome project ❤️ I'm really happy with it!

(I just wish I could play the whole project, I can't beat the first map without cheat codes and a genie that grants wishes to little boys that suck at Doom lol)

@dac Could I please be credited as "Aaron Russell Bowtell" in the final version?
If not it's all good. Cheers! 😊
 

[lazygecko]

It starts off really strong with the first couple of maps showcasing some really fun and creative design challenges with few monsters. Unfortunately after the first 10 or so it quickly devolves into a frustrating and confusing experience by the likes I have not experienced for many years when it comes to the modern standards of Doom mapping with some really 90s-esque pitfalls of design choices. For instance I think the texture set used in Map 16 telegraphs the switches poorly and it actually took me a pretty long time to be able to discern them from the wall textures (this reminds me of an old Let's Play of Duke3D in the second episode where the player circled around the map for close to an hour before finding a button in the alien texture set that was basically camouflaged into the surrounding walls). Map 13 I just straight lost my patience for and skipped after frequently having no idea where to go and what to do. I don't think that type of very moody gimmicky map was really a good fit when paired with how the rest of the maps play. Map 10 had a particularly elusive button switch inside a teleporter sector that I failed to notice for a long time.

 

The mantra for this project seems to be to pivot toward making the map/environment itself just as much if not more of a challenge than the limited amount of enemy encounters, and the results seem to be very hit or miss where it can either strike gold and be exilirating or an unmitigated exercise in tediousness and confusion.

[dac]

It's fine if you didn't gel with the mapset, and honestly if the end of the first act frustrated you to no end then you'd have pulled your hair out at the later maps. I'll just say something about MAP13: I was expecting this map to be a bit divisive considering it's Grove-esque nature, but so far people say it's either the best map in the entire project or the map they ragequit on, no real in-between. All in all I had no real trouble with it, and LPad did a terrific job with his contributions.

 

 

Anyway, popping in to say I'm still alive, RC2 should come out soon-ish.

[SCF]

Map 13 must've been submitted late into the project since I hadn't played it before. I had to give up about 25 minutes in, after the blue skull switch, when I reached a wall and had no idea what to do next. That said, I normally don't care for puzzle maps, so it held my attention for longer than I was expecting anyway. The one thing that bothered me was the (inescapable?) slime pit in the dark room with the yellow skull key. That felt a little cheap.

 

The project didn't specify what kind of map you had to make, as long as it had 30 monsters in it. So this was a perfectly valid entry, and if it's not your cup of tea you should just move on (it's obvious pretty quickly what kind of map it is). It's inevitable that a project of this size would have maps that don't appeal to everyone, and you shouldn't feel obliged to finished every map.

 

However, I can understand if the project title has misled some people. It was intended to be a challenge for map makers to produce something with 30 monsters, rather than to make a 30 monster map that's challenging. So if you go in expecting a set of compact, combat-focused maps, you may be disappointed (although there's still plenty of those).

[lazygecko]

7 hours ago, dac said:

It's fine if you didn't gel with the mapset, and honestly if the end of the first act frustrated you to no end then you'd have pulled your hair out at the later maps. I'll just say something about MAP13: I was expecting this map to be a bit divisive considering it's Grove-esque nature, but so far people say it's either the best map in the entire project or the map they ragequit on, no real in-between. All in all I had no real trouble with it, and LPad did a terrific job with his contributions.

 

 

Anyway, popping in to say I'm still alive, RC2 should come out soon-ish.

 

I've spent some more time with the project the last couple of days. Taking a while to get through as I find the format works best for playing in short bursts of 3-4 maps at a time or so. I'm up to around map 43 now and been having a real blast with just about all of them. It looks like it was only a batch of maps between 10-20 that felt like a real slog.

[NeedHealth]

@dac

 

Updated my map

https://easyupload.io/5x99b8

[Scorpius]

DYSTROPHIA.ZIP (quick update to use a silent death exit - I don't want to explode anyone's ears with Romero!)

[Thelokk]

Don't mean to backseat coordinate but, since the thread has seen little feedback in the past 1+ month, could we start rounding up what's missing for a final RC or an /idgames upload? for demos and such. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Thelokk

[dac]

30mc RC2

 

Sorry once again for the delay. New version, fixed some stuff, added a nice text file too. Let me know if you notice anything wrong.

Edited October 2, 2022 by dac

[ViolentBeetle]

Can I have SKYHX3 for my MAP37: Blood Basin? I think red would be good for it.

[dac]

30mc RC3

 

Added the new version of @Peccatum Mihzamiz's map, and added a new sky to @ViolentBeetle's map.

 

Once again, let me know if there's anything wrong. I will be gearing up for an idgames release around Halloween, so if you find anything or need to make any new modifications, you have two weeks for it!

[JaySmithen]

@dac Could you please change my name in the documentation on maps 08 and 21 from "JaySmithen" to "Aaron Russell Bowtell"? That would be awesome, cheers :)
(I've never been able to come up with a cool psuedenem for myself lol)

[knifeworld]

On 10/17/2022 at 1:19 AM, dac said:

30mc RC3

 

Added the new version of @Peccatum Mihzamiz's map, and added a new sky to @ViolentBeetle's map.

 

Once again, let me know if there's anything wrong. I will be gearing up for an idgames release around Halloween, so if you find anything or need to make any new modifications, you have two weeks for it!

Tested up to MAP18 a month or so ago but didn't get around to posting feedback due to IRL stuff and having way too many mapping projects on my plate.

Majority of maps I tested so far work and look perfectly fine. Didn't notice any glaring issues, apart from: MAP02 by @RastaManGames can be exited mega early by hitting this switch through most of the bars:


MAP06 by @Worst gets rather unclear at the slime platform section because the insta raising & lowering silent floors were extremely hard to notice, mainly because it really seems like you're supposed to strafe run over to this platform:

This was what i tried to do almost 100 times last month, before I finally noticed one of the platforms appearing, today.
Don't ask me how I didn't notice one of the closest platforms disappear before, I don't know either.
But it's probably a combination of them being silent insta-floors and that it looks like a jump/run is intended.

Giving them a sound would help, but it's definitely fun once you learn the pattern!

I'm just glad I figured it out, because I was originally going to go into a detailed rant about how the "Alternate Route Out" basically seemed impossible even if you're a Doom movement wizard, and how I had thought both that section and the impossible "jump" in the slime section made me think this map should have been moved into Taxing. (Just in case it's not clear, I no longer think it should be moved lol).


As for MAP13, I tried it out a while ago to see if it was confusing or boring to me, after playing through it I have to say it's easily my favourite map so far, because it's rewarding to figure it all out and go on an adventure, and the atmosphere is on point!

 

[Worst]

@dac I have an update to my map: 30mc_worst_v5.zip

Based on feedback, I have made a few changes:

Spoiler

- Made the openings in the lift running challenge wider, so that it does not require quite as precise movement anymore.
- Added "floor buttons" to the nukage room puzzle, which hopefully makes the behavior of the puzzle more clear.
- In the 1st half of the central area, added some ceiling & wall details to hint how the big door is opened.
- Added a sound cue to one of the less obvious secrets.
- Added some pointing arrows to the final area.
- Some other minor edits and fixes.

 

On 10/19/2022 at 1:41 AM, knifeworld said:

MAP06 by @Worst gets rather unclear at the slime platform section because the insta raising & lowering silent floors were extremely hard to notice, mainly because it really seems like you're supposed to strafe run over to this platform:

This was what i tried to do almost 100 times last month, before I finally noticed one of the platforms appearing, today.
Don't ask me how I didn't notice one of the closest platforms disappear before, I don't know either.
But it's probably a combination of them being silent insta-floors and that it looks like a jump/run is intended.

Giving them a sound would help, but it's definitely fun once you learn the pattern!

Thanks for the feedback! Based on your experience, and a couple others I've seen, I decided to add floor "buttons" or "pressure plates" on the platforms that hopefully make it more clear now that something is happening each time you step on the platforms. Also made the "Alternate route out" section a bit less difficult to get through.

 

[dac]

Putting a reminder here for a RC4 coming this week, with a idgames this weekend. Also an announcement, but people who follow me elsewhere probably know what it is already ;)

[dac]

This should be good, 30mc RC4!

 

Modified credits for Aaron's contributions, and put in the new version of @Worst's map. Now if nothing went wrong this should be ready for an idgames release by the end of the week.

[dac]

Well it's off! Hopefully nothing causes a reject...

[dac]

it's up!

[Chainie]

hooray

[Thelokk]

Nice! Thanks to @dac and all mappers for delivering, good stuff all around :)

[Scorpius]

Congrats on the release and well done to everyone else who contributed to this amazing project!

[NuMetalManiak]

Can't play in GZDoom... I got two versions nevermind.

30mc.wad:ZCRIPT, line 3: Class CustomLevelProcessor has unknown base class LevelPostProcessor

Execution could not continue.

1 errors. 0 warnings while compiling 30mc.wad:ZSCRIPT

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by NuMetalManiak
4.7.1. works

[dac]

Are you running the latest version of GZDoom? The wad seems to run fine on 4.9.0.

[Walter confetti]

Congrats for the idgames release!

[Death Bear]

Exciting! Congrats, everyone, on idgames! This was a fun project!

[Worst]

Huge congrats to @dac and everyone else involved on getting this project to the finish line!
 

 

2 hours ago, NuMetalManiak said:

Can't play in GZDoom...

30mc.wad:ZCRIPT, line 3: Class CustomLevelProcessor has unknown base class LevelPostProcessor

Execution could not continue.

1 errors. 0 warnings while compiling 30mc.wad:ZSCRIPT

 

If you get this error message, your GZDoom version is way too old to even properly run the wad in the first place, as the ZScript feature that is missing from your copy of GZDoom was introduced before proper MBF21 support was added to GZDoom.

GZDoom 4.3.1 (January 05, 2020) introduced the ZScript LevelPostProcessor.
GZDoom 4.7.0 (September 22, 2021) introduced MBF21 support.

Without proper MBF21 support, you may run into a number of issues in the maps; such as broken exits, blocking lines not blocking, instant death sectors not working, etc.

Edit: If you still wish to run this on an outdated GZDoom version, I made a little patch that bypasses these errors (^{must be loaded before 30mc.wad, tested on GZDoom 4.2.3}), but I still really recommend upgrading your GZDoom version, because you will run into other issues anyways, due to the lack of MBF21 support.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Worst

[knifeworld]

Congrats! Nice to see this finally up. I had a lot of fun mapping for this one.